Woman Harrassed Simply By Walking in New York

[zibazinski]

Nov 2, 2014 2:32:25 GMT -5 ZaireinHD said:

Nov 2, 2014 2:23:46 GMT -5 Opti said:

A stranger can say hello in public in certain situations. Not when I am walking, not looking

at people with a destination in mind. Strolling or meandering on a street or sidewalk. Perhaps.

Waiting in line, better.

But yes, looking good beautiful, bad choice. Its basically telling me he does not

have an interest in me as a person. He is interested in my looks. My personality

and uniqueness is likely optional. Its not a respectful opening comment. Not sure

if I'd rate it as disrespectful as much as a poor choice of opening line.

OH man!
there is a post somewhere around making a comment that men are visual creatures.
we will speak to those that we find attractive. it's that simple

Are you purposely missing the point ? Time and place are important. Just because you find some woman alone walking on the street attractive does not give you the right to say ANYTHING to her at all. Period. Leave her the F alone. If you see her later in a coffee place or some public area where there ar other people around, that's another thing entirely. Why does anyone think its okay to say anything to some stranger? So now since I'm driving alone to Florida in my car, should I be afraid that random assholes also driving feel they have the right to say anything to me to "get my attention?" The fact that I'm not interested in being picked up on the highway doesn't occur to anyone, does it? Because it's all about them and what they want.

[billisonboard]

Nov 1, 2014 23:36:56 GMT -5 Opti said:

Nov 1, 2014 22:54:33 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

And some people are saying that what you are labeling harassment should not be so labeled.

Yes, I understand that.

Some of us are saying the definition needs to be expanded.

How would you prefer to label that behavior? Feel free to create categories and

multiple labels.

I saw friendly, civil, entrepreneurial, rude, totally obnoxious, harassment, and criminal.

[billisonboard]

Nov 2, 2014 1:12:48 GMT -5 Opti said:

... Are they that hard up for entertainment?

Yes.

[Deleted]

Nov 2, 2014 2:49:28 GMT -5 Opti said:

Nov 2, 2014 2:47:37 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

I think I shall leave this exercise in futility. I have an appointment with three cats and a pillow. G'night, all. 

I want to sleep, but is not working.

Did you sleep after it?

[billisonboard]

Nov 2, 2014 2:23:46 GMT -5 Opti said:

... Not sure if I'd rate it as disrespectful as much as a poor choice of opening line.

In the video it is labeled "harassment".

[Deleted]

Nov 2, 2014 9:03:04 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Because it's all about them and what they want.

That is true exactly!!

[Opti]

www.stopstreetharassment.org/resources/definitions/

Tiffanie Heben, author of “A Radical Reshaping of the Law: Interpreting and Remedying Street Harassment” (1994)

Three categories of street harassment:

1. “Severe: a) sexually explicit reference to a woman’s body or to sexual activities, b) profanities that are directed at a woman because of her gender, c) any comment that fits into these categories combined with racial or ethnic slurs, d) any comment that fits any of these three categories combined with references to a woman’s possible homosexuality, e) physical acts such as following a woman, throwing things at her, or pinching or poking her.

2. Moderately severe: a) sexual innuendoes, b) references to a woman’s gender or body that are not sexually explicit.

3. Least severe: a) staring, b) whistling, c) all other comments men make to women that are unnecessary or are not political in nature.”

[Opti]

Jessica Valenti, author of He’s a Stud, She’s a Slut…and 49 Other Double Standards Every Woman Should Know (2008) and executive editor of Feministing.com

“While I’ve heard the argument that street harassment is actually a compliment – you know, because we’re supposed to be flattered that strange men are screaming at us about our asses – it’s really a super-insidious form of sexism. Because not only do perfect strangers think that it’s appropriate to be sexual toward any woman they want, but street harassment is also predicated on the idea that you’re allowed to say anything to women that you want – anytime, anywhere.”

[Deleted]

Your source is approved by the queen?

[Opti]

www.ihollaback.org/

How did this PSA come about?

In August 2014, Rob Bliss of Rob Bliss Creative reached out to Hollaback! to partner on a PSA highlighting the impact of street harassment. He was inspired by his girlfriend — who gets street harassed all the time — and Shoshana B. Roberts volunteered to be the subject of his PSA. For 10 hours, Rob walked in front of Shoshana with a camera in his backpack, while Shoshana walked silently with two mics in her hands.



As part of Rob’s agreement with Hollaback!, Rob had creative control over the PSA and owns it with unlimited usage rights for Hollaback!. Hollaback! is grateful for Rob and Shoshana’s dedication to this issue, and for their volunteer service.

[mmhmm]

Nov 2, 2014 3:41:09 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Nov 2, 2014 0:06:39 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

I don't give a frog's arse about your observation! I AM a woman. You are NOT a woman. I talk to women about very personal things on a regular basis - things women don't talk to men about. I know one hell of a lot more about women than you do, believe me. Every woman here knows more about women than you do. While you might like to believe I'm an exception (that way you can continue to treat women as "game"), you're quite mistaken. Any quality woman sees such behavior as crass, backward, and downright ignorant. 

Does ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ know about women... I mean she IS one... so she should know... right? How come she agrees with me that the video didn't actually show harassment (sexual or otherwise)?

My post, which you quoted, was in answer to Zaire's post and not addressed to you; nor, was it addressing the video. Whether, or not, SL agrees with you is hers to decide, not mine - as is why she might (or might not) do so.

Nov 2, 2014 3:55:55 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Nov 2, 2014 2:17:24 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

There's nothing wrong with saying "hello". However, if the person to whom you've said "hello" keeps walking without acknowledging you, you know all you need to know. She isn't interested.

According to some, here, that agree with the video, the "hello" itself is harassment...  

Since my post specifically says there's nothing wrong with saying "hello", I'm obviously not one of those "some".

[mmhmm]

Nov 2, 2014 9:24:11 GMT -5 @tiki said:

Nov 2, 2014 2:49:28 GMT -5 Opti said:

I want to sleep, but is not working.

Did you sleep after it?

I slept like a brick! 

[8 Bit WWBG]

I was in a store yesterday and this absolutely gorgeous, impeccably styled asian girl was in a tight short form fitting dress and knee high boots.  She caught me looking at her at least twice.  This is a pretty good example of the outfit (but no hat, more color).  I wasn't making an obnoxious face, but I couldn't really help looking.  We are talking a 9 out of 10 here, maybe a 9.5.  It was really classy but friggin' hot!  Still... with this thread fresh in my head, I had an interesting sequence of thoughts

*I* know I won't do anything more than look.  She doesn't know that.  >>>  How many guys, up to crossing my path, had already given her what kind of attention?  >>>  How was she feeling about the attention she had to know she was getting?  Was she loving it?  Hating it?  Everything in between?  >>>  I wonder what she is really like?  Obviously she is in to image (it was a beauty store and she was browsing quite a bit) but is she a fun person, a gold digger, kind and sensitive ...

The goal of the video was to raise awareness and get people talking and thinking.  We are doing both.

[billisonboard]

Nov 2, 2014 10:33:57 GMT -5 8 Bit WWBG said:

...

The goal of the video was to raise awareness and get people talking and thinking. We are doing both.

Excellent point.

[Bonny]

Nov 1, 2014 21:54:58 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Nov 1, 2014 21:48:12 GMT -5 Bonny said:

So you wouldn't have any response to a perfect stranger saying to your wife or/and daughter "Nice boobs or nice ass" while you were walking next to her because that's a compliment.

Boy, you really DON'T know how to read without biased misinterpretation... do you?

I didn't say "compliment" I said "comment".

My wife would react however she would react. She's a grown adult woman. I don't assume that she can;t respond for herself (however, I can tell you how SHE would act: She'd say "yes, they are!" to "nice boobs", and she'd say "Yes, it is!" or "Thanks!" to "nice ass").

I don't have a daughter, but if I did, and she was under-age, I'd probably be none-too-pleased with the comment. But I'd still understand that it's JUST a comment.

Biased? How about experienced! I've lived through it. Nearly every day until I was about 45 some a-hole needed make a comment about my body. How would YOU feel if you had to run the verbal gauntlet every day?

And I call Bullshit on the bolded part. If you had a daughter you'd want to punch him in the nose. And depending on the jerk's size and whether he was alone or with a group you would.

But here's the point. Guys don't make comments like that when a girl or woman is with a man. They only do it when she's alone. They make the calculated decision that she won't fight back. It's a sleazy power play. They win she loses. And they're right. She's not going punch every a-hole who whistles or makes some kind of comment. She'd never get to where she's going!

[billisonboard]

Nov 2, 2014 10:37:55 GMT -5 Bonny said:

... They win she loses. ...

What do they "win" and what is it she "loses"?

[8 Bit WWBG]

I just made a connection...  So in my previous post, I looked at the gorgeous hottie through the eyes of a married (faithful) man.  But if I was single, and a bit younger, things could have gone differently.

I might very well have approached her and asked her out.  My goal may have been to get to know her, or just to try and score her, or all of the above.  So now, the game changes:

Obviously a lame/lewd pickup line is off the table for me (may not be for others, but for this experiment, its not in the cards).  So I approach her respectfully and try to strike up a conversation.  She could go in any direction.  She could be flattered.  She could be fed up (having been asked out 5 times up to that point already and just wanted to shop).  She could find me attractive or not.  She could assume I'm a sicko who hangs out near female stores to pick up chicks.

Maybe I'm a serial player.  Maybe I'm a really great guy and just not having luck with women.  Maybe I've also been rejected too much in the last few months.

So I'm back to my previous point of neither side knows exactly what has happened to the other person up until their paths cross.  Maybe she'd say yes?  Nothing ventured nothing gained, right?  Worst for me is that she rejects me and I never see her again, so why not try?  Maybe if I don't try, *I* would be the one beating myself up.

So much to ponder and explore...

[mmhmm]

Nov 2, 2014 10:47:30 GMT -5 8 Bit WWBG said:

I just made a connection...  So in my previous post, I looked at the gorgeous hottie through the eyes of a married (faithful) man.  But if I was single, and a bit younger, things could have gone differently.

I might very well have approached her and asked her out.  My goal may have been to get to know her, or just to try and score her, or all of the above.  So now, the game changes:

Obviously a lame/lewd pickup line is off the table for me (may not be for others, but for this experiment, its not in the cards).  So I approach her respectfully and try to strike up a conversation.  She could go in any direction.  She could be flattered.  She could be fed up (having been asked out 5 times up to that point already and just wanted to shop).  She could find me attractive or not.  She could assume I'm a sicko who hangs out near female stores to pick up chicks.

Maybe I'm a serial player.  Maybe I'm a really great guy and just not having luck with women.  Maybe I've also been rejected too much in the last few months.

So I'm back to my previous point of neither side knows exactly what has happened to the other person up until their paths cross.  Maybe she'd say yes?  Nothing ventured nothing gained, right?  Worst for me is that she rejects me and I never see her again, so why not try?  Maybe if I don't try, *I* would be the one beating myself up.

So much to ponder and explore...

Your scenario is different than what we've been talking about, WWBG. Firstly, you're in a store not on the street. People walking along the street are usually going somewhere. People in a store are where they were going and are browsing; therefore, more open to conversation. In your scenario, considering you've said lame/lewd pickup lines aren't your style, a polite "hello" might be received with a smile and a return of the greeting. If it is, that's usually indicative of someone who's open to conversation. If your polite "hello" is rebuffed and you go on your way, no issue. Being accosted with unwelcome comments while walking down the street is completely different. 

[Bonny]

Nov 2, 2014 10:41:31 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Nov 2, 2014 10:37:55 GMT -5 Bonny said:

... They win she loses. ...

What do they "win" and what is it she "loses"?

Power.

Harassing someone who won't fight back makes them feel powerful.

Losers.

[Bonny]

Nov 2, 2014 10:47:30 GMT -5 8 Bit WWBG said:

I just made a connection...  So in my previous post, I looked at the gorgeous hottie through the eyes of a married (faithful) man.  But if I was single, and a bit younger, things could have gone differently.

I might very well have approached her and asked her out.  My goal may have been to get to know her, or just to try and score her, or all of the above.  So now, the game changes:

Obviously a lame/lewd pickup line is off the table for me (may not be for others, but for this experiment, its not in the cards).  So I approach her respectfully and try to strike up a conversation.  She could go in any direction.  She could be flattered.  She could be fed up (having been asked out 5 times up to that point already and just wanted to shop).  She could find me attractive or not.  She could assume I'm a sicko who hangs out near female stores to pick up chicks.

Maybe I'm a serial player.  Maybe I'm a really great guy and just not having luck with women.  Maybe I've also been rejected too much in the last few months.

So I'm back to my previous point of neither side knows exactly what has happened to the other person up until their paths cross.  Maybe she'd say yes?  Nothing ventured nothing gained, right?  Worst for me is that she rejects me and I never see her again, so why not try?  Maybe if I don't try, *I* would be the one beating myself up.

So much to ponder and explore...

Agree with mmhmm.

You would not walk up to a woman like that and say "Nice ass" or "Nice tits". "Want to go out?"

A humble "I'm sorry to be staring but I find you very attractive. Would you like to get a cup of coffee somewhere" would get you far.

ETA: Understanding that this woman is somebody's daughter or sister and deserves respect puts you miles ahead of the jerks.

[Deleted]

Nov 2, 2014 10:59:13 GMT -5 Bonny said:

Nov 2, 2014 10:41:31 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

What do they "win" and what is it she "loses"?

Power.

Harassing someone who won't fight back makes them feel powerful.

Losers.

Yes power! Its what I liked to say but I messed it up. If they can make her be low they will have power.

[billisonboard]

Nov 2, 2014 11:08:15 GMT -5 @tiki said:

Nov 2, 2014 10:59:13 GMT -5 Bonny said:

Power.

Harassing someone who won't fight back makes them feel powerful.

Losers.

Yes power! Its what I liked to say but I messed it up. If they can make her be low they will have power.

And if they don't "make her be low" then they gain nothing. I would contend that their behavior does not "make her" anything she doesn't choose.

[Bonny]

I should add that some men just don't get it. They think they're funny...like they are the first one to come up with some of their comments.

My father is one of them. You cannot believe some of things that come out of his mouth. Both my mother and brother banned him from their offices because of his inappropriate comments.

Here's an example I witnessed:

My dad to an attractive 50 woman wearing a business suit: "Do you know that wearing red means that you're sexually hot?"

My dad wasn't coming on to her. He thought he was funny. What's the appropriate response when the jerk is the owner or the father of the owner of where you work? My mother and brother were afraid they would get sued for a hostile workplace.

I confronted my father a few years back after one of his "funny" comments and said "How would you feel if some man said that to me?" His expression? I continued "Before you say something "funny" think about whether you would say it to your daughter. If you won't say it to your daughter then zip it!"

[Bonny]

Nov 2, 2014 11:16:45 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Nov 2, 2014 11:08:15 GMT -5 @tiki said:

Yes power! Its what I liked to say but I messed it up. If they can make her be low they will have power.

And if they don't "make her be low" then they gain nothing. I would contend that their behavior does not "make her" anything she doesn't choose.

Because she asked to be verbally assaulted by existing.

[zibazinski]

Funny but not really how three guys and one woman think this is okay. No wonder this shit still happens.

[Deleted]

Nov 2, 2014 11:16:45 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Nov 2, 2014 11:08:15 GMT -5 @tiki said:

Yes power! Its what I liked to say but I messed it up. If they can make her be low they will have power.

And if they don't "make her be low" then they gain nothing. I would contend that their behavior does not "make her" anything she doesn't choose.

Except uncomfortable and possibly little bit scared. It is ok to make her feel so?

[billisonboard]

Nov 2, 2014 10:59:13 GMT -5 Bonny said:

Nov 2, 2014 10:41:31 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

What do they "win" and what is it she "loses"?

Power.

Harassing someone who won't fight back makes them feel powerful.

Losers.

The fact that it might make them feel powerful does not been they have gained any power.
Yes, they are demonstrating that they are losers by engaging in such behavior.

What power did the female lose in this situation?

[mmhmm]

Nov 2, 2014 11:16:45 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Nov 2, 2014 11:08:15 GMT -5 @tiki said:

Yes power! Its what I liked to say but I messed it up. If they can make her be low they will have power.

And if they don't "make her be low" then they gain nothing. I would contend that their behavior does not "make her" anything she doesn't choose.

In many instances, you're correct, billis. For me, their comments speak to them, not to me. I ignore and continue on my way, realizing I've just passed what I'll call the intellectual equivalent of a doorknob. On the other hand, insulting and degrading comments are often directed at young women, even very young women and girls. Those girls don't have a lot of experience and haven't polished their ability to take things in stride and move along. They're often embarrassed and flustered. They'll get the hang of it, but it's darned unfortunate they have to do so. They have as much right to walk down the street without being accosted as does anyone else but that right is taken away from them by these louts.

[Bonny]

Nov 2, 2014 11:18:25 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Funny but not really how three guys and one woman think this is okay. No wonder this shit still happens.

I don't think the woman thinks that verbal harassment of women is o.k. I think she doesn't like the video clip. I don't know of ANY woman likes to be verbally sexually harassed by strangers.

[billisonboard]

Nov 2, 2014 11:18:36 GMT -5 @tiki said:

Nov 2, 2014 11:16:45 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

And if they don't "make her be low" then they gain nothing. I would contend that their behavior does not "make her" anything she doesn't choose.

Except uncomfortable and possibly little bit scared. It is ok to make her feel so?

I would contend it is entirely up to her what she feels. No one can make one feel ...

The exception from the video is the guy walking silently at her shoulder. That behavior should subject the guy to criminal prosecution.