LlamaLlamaDuck
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Post by LlamaLlamaDuck on Mar 4, 2011 23:42:19 GMT -5
Hear! Hear! Firebird!
You don't have to be "in love" to continue to choose to love someone. That's my point. Too many people give up as soon as that "in love" feeling goes away, rather than continue to choose to love them.
Love is something you DO, even if you aren't always feelin' it.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Mar 5, 2011 19:51:02 GMT -5
Firebird: Now they are on the other side of the country from me, so I don't see the every day, nor do I think my aunt has been the perfect parent, however, no, I don't believe there has been the "martyr" problem. It just got to a point where they stopped liking each other, and stopped wanting to be in a room together, and then it devolved. The kids have never been told their parents are only married for their sake, but it becomes obvious when your parents don't want to spend time together, when they can't speak without it devolving in to snippiness. Now perhaps they never should have gotten married in the first place. That's certainly a possibility, but we can't change the past. We CAN change the future. And sometimes that means admitting we made mistakes and taking steps to rectify them. And that can mean divorce. And guess what, it doesn't matter how good a parent someone is, a bad environment can and will mess up a kid. Bad marriages create bad environments. I also believe that most of my family would make the argument that my uncle has been a bad parent (and from the stories I hear, that's true, but I know those stories are biased). The sad part is I'm terrified the oldest is going to repeat his parents' mistake. He has seen his parents stay in a relationship even though they are both miserable. I like his girl friend, but i think she's decided she's going to marry him, and I honestly don't know if he feels the same way about her. What I do know is that he doesn't know how to ask for what he wants out of a relationship, or get out of one that's not working for him.
Do I expect that DH and I will ever get divorced? No. We've been married almost 8 years, and things are going good. But things were going good for my parents after 8 years, too. They got divorced after 16 years. And what I do know, is that the me from 16 years ago would not recognize the me now. If I had gotten married then, to someone who was expecting the same things out of me that I was expecting out of myself, there's a good chance that marriage wouldn't have worked, because it turned out what I have actually wanted out of life has born little to no resemblance to what I thought I wanted out of life.
The mother of a good friend made us all promise that we wouldn't get married before we were 25. It wasn't exactly a magic number, but she figured that would give us long enough to be on our own to know ourselves. Her theory for the reason that her, and so many of my peers' parents' marriages failed was that they all got married, tying their lives to another person, before they knew who they were. I don't know about the age, but I do know that I would never support any child of mine (if they ever exist) going straight from my house into a marriage. I think its incredibly important for people to live on their own (with roommates counts) at least for some time.
So while I'd like to see every marriage work. And while I know (trust me, I know) that love is more than a feeling, its choices and actions we take every day, I've also lived enough to know that we make mistakes. Sometimes those mistakes are little and sometimes they are big. But we all have the right to try and fix those mistakes, even if it sometimes means breaking vows we never thought we would break. Life can take twists and turns we never saw coming, and sometimes the road map we've been following no longer bares any resemblance to where we find ourselves.
Its easy to judge, to place our values on others, to believe that we would make different choices, to believe that they SHOULD have made different choices. But the world isn't one size fits all.
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servant_of_dog
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Post by servant_of_dog on Mar 5, 2011 22:57:13 GMT -5
"So while I'd like to see every marriage work. And while I know (trust me, I know) that love is more than a feeling, it's choices and actions we take every day, and I've also lived enough to know that we make mistakes. Sometimes those mistakes are little and sometimes they are big. But we all have the right to try and fix those mistakes, even if it sometimes means breaking vows we never thought we would break. Life can take twists and turns we never saw coming, and sometimes the road map we've been following no longer bears any resemblance to where we find ourselves. Its easy to judge, to place our values on others, to believe that we would make different choices, to believe that they SHOULD have made different choices. But the world isn't one size fits all." Shanendoah, thank you for saying this so well.
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dividend
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Post by dividend on Mar 6, 2011 10:37:45 GMT -5
My dad said something to me the other night that sums up how I feel about this thread. He said, you only get on trip through this life, and you're in control of not only how you spend it, but how you feel about it. If you're truly not happy in a situation, every day that you spend being miserable is a day that you don't get back. You don't get a chance to go back and swap the unhappy days for better ones. All you can do is choose whether you're going to be happy in the current day. Maybe I'm selfish, or maybe I just value being happy, but if I were miserable in relationship, marriage vow promises or not, I'd have to get out. I have to take care of myself first, because if I'm not taking care of myself, I can't even begin to be able to be good to anyone else. I understand where Firebird is coming from, but I think that I would rather be happy than proud of my idealistic resolve. I wouldn't want someone to stay with me if they weren't happy - people deserve better than that.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Mar 7, 2011 14:06:23 GMT -5
shanendoah, you've seen one side of this issue and I've seen another, so naturally we're going to be approaching it from different angles. We don't have to agree on everything, but I do take issue with the idea that I'm judgmental just because my opinion is different from yours.
I'm well aware that my opinion of marriage is viewed by many as naive and judgmental because it's not in vogue at the moment. However, it is ENTIRELY possible to judge a societal trend without judging individual people who make choices in line with that trend. I make a pretty significant effort to avoid the latter.
I dislike and do not agree with the trend nowadays of bailing on a marriage "just" because you're unhappy, "just" because you're not "in love." Does that mean that every single person who makes that decision is wrong? Absolutely not, and I would never say such a thing. Do I think that by encouraging it, we're moving in a dangerous direction as a society? Absolutely, yes.
If you want to get divorced because your spouse isn't making you happy anymore, you'll find plenty of support these days. You'll find plenty of people to tell you that it's totally fine to leave without even trying to work it out, just because you're not in love. Does that mean it's not the right decision for some people? No, it doesn't. But I don't think we're doing ourselves any favors by saying that it's okay, that there's nothing wrong with breaking vows that are meant to last a lifetime.
That was basically my point all along. I never said that my values are right for everyone, or that the world is one size fits all.
ETA: Plus, you know my thing about personal responsibility. As long as you're cool with lying in it, you're free to make up your bed any way you want ;D
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Mar 7, 2011 15:32:45 GMT -5
Firebird: I know you, so I know you're not that judgemental. (I believe all of us are judegemental at least a little bit, that's a human failing.) But go back and read your post #69, especially the second half of it. It comes off as judgemental, and that was the tone I was responding to. I also think that comparing taking care of an ailing partner (especially as you get older) who makes you miserable due to the illness is not a fair comparison to living with a perectly health partner who makes you miserable just because. I've never met anyone who left a sick spouse because of the illness (I know it happens, but I don't personally know anyone whose done it, and those people are generally considered BAD even by those who have no problems with divorce) whereas I do know people who have stayed in marriages they probably should have gotten out of due to the other partner being ill.
Personally, I am a huge fan of writing or at least co-opting the wedding vows that make the most sense to you and your partner. But a lot of people don't even think about it (other than to not say "obey") and go with tradition. Still, unless I was at their wedding, I have no idea if they promised to stay together until death do they part.
You may dislike the current trend of people getting divorced because they're unhappy, but again, how do you know that wasn't what their vows said? Like it or not, marriage does mean different things to different people, and just because the marriage trend is going a way that doesn't match your values does not make the overall trend wrong. What it means is that you hold different values from the majority of the people. And that's fine. There's nothing wrong with that. But there has to be an understanding that your definition of marriage is different from theirs, so you aren't acutally debating the same point.
As a side note, the preconceived notions that accompany the word "marraige" are part of the reason I am in favor of the government being out of the "marriage" business altogether. Let marriage be between you, your God and your Church - and those are the values you need to live up to. That way, the rest of us could get the legal benefits and protections that come with marriage without having to live up to someone else's ideal of what marriage should be. I personally would be very happy if DH and I had a civil union instead of a marriage.
My comments aren't meant to be an attack on any one person or their value system. Its more of a thought exercise about the way we define certain common words in our heads, and the realization that your definition and my definition of the same word may not match.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Mar 7, 2011 17:05:30 GMT -5
For the purposes of this discussion, I do assume that people take vows promising to be together until death with no contingencies. For couples of whom that isn't true, nothing I've said so far is applicable.
I don't think my post was judgmental, especially since I said you should just live together if you're not ready to make that kind of commitment. I myself live with DBF because as of yet, I haven't been ready to make that kind of commitment. I'm not ready to promise him my life yet - so if anything, I'm judging myself. I'm not judging people who don't want to make that commitment, or questioning their love for their partners - I'm judging the part where they make a commitment they don't really intend to honor. And like it or not, if you're (general you here, not you specifically) willing to bail if you fall out of love with your partner someday, you do not really intend to honor a contract that says you're with this person for life no matter what.
Like it or not, marriage does mean different things to different people, and just because the marriage trend is going a way that doesn't match your values does not make the overall trend wrong. What it means is that you hold different values from the majority of the people. And that's fine. There's nothing wrong with that. But there has to be an understanding that your definition of marriage is different from theirs, so you aren't acutally debating the same point.
(A reminder: I am most definitely assuming that people are including the words "till death do us part" in their vows - if they're not, that's a different story.)
I'll try to explain where I'm coming from with the societal value versus personal morals thing. I am fully supportive of gay marriage. Why? Because the only conceivable opposition to it is based in morality, and not everyone shares the same morals. So it's not okay for a state institution to dictate morals. End of story, full stop. I agree 100% with your contention that it's not okay for anyone to decide the right morals for everyone (aside from obvious absolutes like "don't kill people").
But here, I'm not dictating morals, or advocating one moral standard over another one, to anyone. My objection to people divorcing based on happiness is based entirely on the wording of vows that clearly state that it's not okay to do that.
I think our society is beginning to suffer from the fact that our word isn't valued as highly as it used to be (and YES, for the record this applies to financial contracts as well). In the strictest sense, we are training ourselves that our word doesn't mean anything. We are teaching ourselves that promises don't mean anything.
What does that mean? Ultimately, it means that we can go by people's actions, and ONLY by people's actions. And when those actions are not constrained by the fact that we've promised certain actions, you really can't depend on anyone to do anything. "Commitments" are just day-to-day, slipshod things with no meaningful constraints on behavior.
It means we can't trust anyone to do anything they promise. It means that if I marry DBF, I have to be totally okay with the idea that he doesn't necessarily need to do what he's promising to do. I have to accept the fact that he doesn't even have to try to keep his word if he doesn't feel like it.
When promises mean that little to the general population, it can't help but affect even people who think it "should" be different. I can't even say that it wouldn't have an effect on me, subconsciously. Sure, I can say that we're different, DBF and I believe marriage is more and we're going to behave accordingly, yada yada, but that doesn't mean the fact that our friends are okay with divorcing if things get tough isn't going to affect us.
And more broadly, the fact that a marriage vow is meaningless to the general population means that lesser vows are even less important, which IS going to affect us. It's going to affect EVERYONE, in a negative way.
So in a very basic sense, my objection to people bailing on marriages because they don't like their partners anymore is not based on morality at all - it's based on a larger concern about the value of one's word in this society, and the negative ramifications of such.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Mar 7, 2011 17:29:22 GMT -5
...:::"it's based on a larger concern about the value of one's word in this society, and the negative ramifications of such":::...
People's word... or how quickly they are willing to go back on said word when the outcome benefits them. Its easy to say "til death" while everything is good. When things are bad and you stand to gain by leaving, the question becomes whether you hold the value of your word in higher esteem than you hold the promise of til death.
But when someone else violates their half of the agreement, it gets even more complicated. If you have always been a good partner, and your spouse becomes more and more selfish to your detriment, then when is it OK to declare breech of contract due to THEIR actions?
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Mar 7, 2011 17:34:51 GMT -5
But when someone else violates their half of the agreement, it gets even more complicated. If you have always been a good partner, and your spouse becomes more and more selfish to your detriment, then when is it OK to declare breech of contract due to THEIR actions?
That's tough, all right, and it's part of the reason I intend to write my vows in such a way that it's clear I'm NOT going to let DBF just totally run us into the ground while I sit by and watch. I'm NOT promising "until death," I'm promising "until death as long as you hold up your end of the bargain." I don't want to lose my ability to walk away if I have to because I made a promise.
A friend of mine recently divorced her husband after he spent an entire decade emotionally abusing and neglecting her. This guy was a CREEP, and he didn't even love her - but she stuck it out until HE moved out and filed for divorce, and even then she wasn't okay with the idea until she learned he was sleeping with other women. That, to her, was when her marriage was over - not when he abandoned her, not when he neglected her, not when he spent all their money and hid things from her, etc.
Different people have different limits.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Mar 7, 2011 17:34:57 GMT -5
I haven't been to many weddings, but none of them have had the traditional, 'for richer, or poorer, till death do us part' stuff.
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april47
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Post by april47 on Mar 8, 2011 10:12:31 GMT -5
Congratulations Cael! I think the main thing you said is that "he wanted to change". He knew his future would be better and he wanted to work to that goal. I think the main problems with financial trainwrecks is that they either don't see the problem, they are unmotivated to change, or they are too into immediate gratification because of immaturity(no matter what age).
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Mar 8, 2011 13:59:33 GMT -5
So in keeping with my original post of this thread, in addition to there being some people who just shouldn't get married because their financial values are not suited to a formal partnership, we should advise people that DO choose to marry a "bad with money" person to word the vows such that they can get out?
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 8, 2011 14:17:42 GMT -5
I never took my vows to literally mean that even thru the crappiest crap I had to make my bed and lie in it. I always took it as you don't bail at the first sign of trouble, you make the effort to try and work it out together.
I never thought it meant sticking around while my husband runs us into the ground finanically because I took a "vow" to love him for richer or poorer and that I better rewrite the vows to put in that caveat.
By the time I am walking down the aisle it should be understood that his butt is grass if he ruins us or treats me like crap. If I have to throw that into the marriage vows then, IMO, I got a problem because I shouldn't have to spell that out for him.
I must have a screwbally notion of marriage because I've never considered my vows a contract that I'll stay thru every extreme in a marriage. I considered it a contract that DH and I will always try to do right by each other, if we don't that is a breach of contract.
I considered it that we've agreed to build a life together and that sometimes that life is going to suck but we should try to work thru our problems rather than bailing.
I never considered it that I just promised to let DH treat me like crap because I didn't spell out in our vows that he can't.
Then I agree with Shendoah the government needs to get out of marriage so we can stop hanging our own ideas of morality onto a civil process. I shouldn't have the pressure to stay with someone in the civil sense because I took a "vow" with the church.
Let that be a problem between me and the church and let me mind my own business when it comes to the civil side.
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sapphire12
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Post by sapphire12 on Mar 8, 2011 14:19:57 GMT -5
Oh my. This is an interesting thread. I have nothing else to add.
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cael
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Post by cael on Mar 8, 2011 14:23:58 GMT -5
I never took my vows to literally mean that even thru the crappiest crap I had to make my bed and lie in it. I always took it as you don't bail at the first sign of trouble, you make the effort to try and work it out together. I never thought it meant sticking around while my husband runs us into the ground finanically because I took a "vow" to love him for richer or poorer and that I better rewrite the vows to put in that caveat. By the time I am walking down the aisle it should be understood that his butt is grass if he ruins us or treats me like crap. If I have to throw that into the marriage vows then, IMO, I got a problem because I shouldn't have to spell that out for him. I must have a screwbally notion of marriage because I've never considered my vows a contract that I'll stay thru every extreme in a marriage. I considered it a contract that DH and I will always try to do right by each other, if we don't that is a breach of contract. I considered it that we've agreed to build a life together and that sometimes that life is going to suck but we should try to work thru our problems rather than bailing. I never considered it that I just promised to let DH treat me like crap because I didn't spell out in our vows that he can't. Then I agree with Shendoah the government needs to get out of marriage so we can stop hanging our own ideas of morality onto a civil process. I shouldn't have the pressure to stay with someone in the civil sense because I took a "vow" with the church. Let that be a problem between me and the church and let me mind my own business when it comes to the civil side. This!!! karma when I regenerate! Couldn't have said it better.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Mar 8, 2011 15:16:30 GMT -5
I guess I just really don't see how "for better or worse, for richer for poorer, until death do us part" allows room for contingencies. Worse can mean cheating. Worse can mean abuse. Poorer can mean unemployment, or it could mean a drug problem (also qualifies as "worse").
I mean, where do you draw the line? How MUCH do you have to work at a marriage before it's "okay" to go?
I'm just not cool with making a vow that says no matter what if I don't actually, literally mean no matter what. If that makes me weird/unreasonable, so be it.
DBF and I are on the same page, I guess that's really all that matters.
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cael
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Post by cael on Mar 8, 2011 15:20:20 GMT -5
Firebird, I get what you're saying, I just don't agree with it. I don't see those specific words as a binding contract to stay with your spouse literally no matter what. So using the example with "worse", do you think someone should stay with an abusive spouse and "work at" the marriage? 'Cuz, I don't.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 8, 2011 15:20:29 GMT -5
DBF and I are on the same page, I guess that's really all that matters
Pretty much. ;D
I mean, where do you draw the line? How MUCH do you have to work at a marriage before it's "okay" to go?
I assume from looks I get in RL not every couple does this but I made DH sit down with me and we had a seriosu talk about where the line is for each of us that we won't work on the marriage anymore.
So when I entered into my marriage it was already for us established where the lines were and if you didn't like it, then back out now.
We took the vows it meant that we were agreeing to the conditions we'd already set before walking down the aisle. You break them it's a breach of contract.
Then personally I consider the words we said to be an issue between me and the church. The civil part of my marriage has nothing to do with the expectations of the church.
The civil part, which I would dissolve if we got divorced was the part where I said "I do" and wrote my name on the license. The rest of it was a pact between me and the church.
It's up to God to decide if I had a decent reason to break the religious part of the marriage or not.
Honestly I woud have been fine not getting married but since Iowa is not a common law state it was just easier to get married.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Mar 8, 2011 15:36:11 GMT -5
Firebird, I get what you're saying, I just don't agree with it. I don't see those specific words as a binding contract to stay with your spouse literally no matter what. So using the example with "worse", do you think someone should stay with an abusive spouse and "work at" the marriage? 'Cuz, I don't.
Absolutely not (although there are people who do, and there's nothing wrong with that as long as there are alternative options to divorce, such as separation). Again, I am not and have NEVER said that it's not okay to divorce your way out of a bad situation. I am not staying you should resign yourself to a miserable life because you took vows. I am suggesting that people be a little more careful of what vows they take to whom, that's all. And my reasoning is that otherwise, you are cheapening your own word.
DQ, I am totally okay with your (and shanendoah's) distinction between legal and religious marriage. And I get what you're saying. But I still think that the words matter, at least somewhat (and the specific extent might be different for each couple). Why are the words you said to DH in private binding when the words you said in front of your family and friends and in front of your God are not?
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cael
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Post by cael on Mar 8, 2011 15:44:11 GMT -5
Got it Firebird, and I agree that people should consider the words they spoke when they got married - so many people end marriages for idiotic reasons (or get married for idiotic reasons). Sorry if I sounded inflammatory...
For me, it's hard, I won't say I'm not religious because I go to church, but I'm an atheist, so the whole religious aspect of marriage was never there for me. I mostly view marriage simply as a societal thing (a legal thing), not really at all a religious thing. Whether God is involved or not, people's words should matter anyway! I am not an advocate of people ending marriages because they aren't willing to work through problems.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 8, 2011 15:45:17 GMT -5
Why are the words you said to DH in private binding when the words you said in front of your family and friends and in front of your God are not?
They are important and I do take them very seriously. I am willing to at least TRY to work on any problems we have.
There are some exceptions where I wouldn't be willing to even attempt to work it out and those are mine to decide on. DH is aware of them.
I just don't agree that I have to put those into our vows otherwise I've cheapened the words.
To me those worst case scenarios are private because like you said everyone's is different.
Where the religion/moral part comes in is that some people may not believe that one of the exceptions I have is worth dissolving my covenant with God.
That is NOT their decision to make or place to judge, personally I feel like if I have to put into the vows "For richer or poorer until you do blah blah blah" I am trying to justify things and seek approval from others on things that are none of their business.
With the exception of my dealbreakers I am willing to at least attempt to work on problems, but DH hast o meet me half way. If he doesn't then I don't consider our marriage to have been meaningless, but I do consider trying to move forward with someone who doesn't want to fix our problems to be meaningless and cheapening the institution of marriage.
I understand your position on it and agree with you for the most part.
I just personally do not agree with having to put the exceptions into the actual vows.
I think for all but the extreme of the extreme it's understood that there is going to be SOMETHING that is a deal breaker for every couple. What that is, IMO, is the couple's business.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Mar 8, 2011 15:59:16 GMT -5
You really do just need to be on the same page with your spouse. If you agreed with someone else, you would probably be marrying them. What I have found in my own life recently is that you can't plan for every contingency. For relationships that span decades, realistically each party is going to change and what is okay today, might not be okay in 15 years and vice versa.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Mar 8, 2011 15:59:23 GMT -5
Sorry if I sounded inflammatory... No way, cael. Thanks for clarifying I agree with everything you wrote in your last post. That is NOT their decision to make or place to judge, personally I feel like if I have to put into the vows "For richer or poorer until you do blah blah blah" I am trying to justify things to others that is none of their business.This isn't about ME judging people (although I can see where you're getting that). Just because we're discussing this on a message board in the abstract does not mean that I go around judging my specific friends who have been divorced. As I've said, I make a particular effort NOT to do that. But that doesn't mean that I don't have opinions about what marriage means, or about acceptable grounds for divorce. A completely random example: Let's say that your spouse kisses someone else at a bar while drunk. That happens not to be a dealbreaker for me, so it logically follows that I don't think it's worth breaking up a marriage over, and from there it logically follows that in GENERAL, I am going to consider it a shortsighted mistake for someone to divorce their spouse over a slip like that. That doesn't mean that in a particular, one-off case, I might not agree with someone who chose to divorce their spouse for that reason. It also doesn't mean that I'm going to cluck and say how awful it is when I find out that a friend of mine divorced for that reason. I might DISAGREE with that choice in my HEAD, but I'm not going to make a big issue out of calling out particular people, because it's just not my place to do so. I don't know what else was going on. I might be weird this way, but I draw a huge distinction between generally judging an action and judging individual people who commit that action. I frown on the latter, but I do the former all the time (and I think everyone does, actually, which is why I find it hypocritical when people claim to never judge anyone - a general statement, I'm not trying to call out you or anyone else).
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 8, 2011 16:05:03 GMT -5
This isn't about ME judging people (although I can see where you're getting that). Just because we're discussing this on a message board in the abstract does not mean that I go around judging my specific friends who have been divorced. As I've said, I make a particular effort NOT to do that.
Sorry if I worded that wrong, I didn't mean YOU personally.
It's hard to explain my position on it. For me when DH and I took the vows it meant we'd already considered the dealbreakers and by the time we were walking down the aisle it was understood that we weren't going to do those things and accept those terms.
Now I understand everyone is human and shit happens, but to me if I have to stand at the alter and reiterate them to DH, I got a serious problem.
To ME if I then put those dealbreakers in the vows I am hanging my dirty laundry out for every single one of my guests to see and comment on. Once I put those things out there, I can't take them back and everyone is free to decide if my dealbreakers are justified or not.
I think for just about everyone besides the extreme of the extreme do agree that there are dealbreakers. What they are is going to be different for everyone.
I just believe they are private matters and don't need to be announced in my wedding vows.
By the time I am getting married it should be pretty much understood between me and DH that we are not going to screw each other. Again shit happens, but I PERSONALLY feel if I need to list the exceptions in our vows then I shouldn't be getting married just yet.
I'm all for rewriting your vows though. I wanted to but DH had panic attacks at the thought of having to come up with his own vows so we stuck to the traditional ones.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Mar 8, 2011 16:29:01 GMT -5
Now I understand everyone is human and shit happens, but to me if I have to stand at the alter and reiterate them to DH, I got a serious problem.
To ME if I then put those dealbreakers in the vows I am hanging my dirty laundry out for every single one of my guests to see and comment on. Once I put those things out there, I can't take them back and everyone is free to decide if my dealbreakers are justified or not.
Okay, I totally get what you're saying now. Thanks for clarifying. I think that's a legit approach - especially since, now that I think about it, one of my dealbreakers is somewhat of a "trigger" issue for me, definitely not something I want to explicitly say out loud in front of a bunch of people on what is supposed to be a happy day.
So if the "public vows" reflect the "private vows" understood between you and DH for that reason, I think that makes a lot of sense. I wasn't really planning on explicitly saying "unless you do xyz" anyway, I was planning to approach it more like shanendoah and just not putting the word "forever" in the vows.
But we'll see how it goes.
Anyhow, like I said, thanks for clarifying. Sorry if I sounded a little touchy about this. I'm sort of grumpy today.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 8, 2011 16:38:35 GMT -5
I'll be honest, I can't even remember if the words "till death do us part" were in our vows. And I've only been married three years is that bad? To DH and I marriage is forever. Yeah they are dealbreakers but when we decided to walk down the aisle it was pretty much agreed upon that those things would not happen. I'll admit our lists are pretty damn short on what we would not be willing to work on and at least for his list and a couple on mine we wouldn't even BE married if we thought for a second they would happen. We've had some tests, had to seek out counseling and were both concerned we may not be able to make it work, but for the most part we're in this forever or more realistically till one of us croaks.
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Post by jarhead1976 on Mar 8, 2011 16:42:25 GMT -5
We all die alone! Money or not.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Mar 8, 2011 16:49:00 GMT -5
I'll be honest, I can't even remember if the words "till death do us part" were in our vows. And I've only been married three years is that bad? THREE YEARS? Jesus Christ, I've been on the boards a long time, seeing as how I clearly remember when you were engaged. Yikes. DBF and I just put a deposit on a kitten yesterday. Since our relationship now involves other living things, I'd say we're in it for the long haul as well ;D
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 8, 2011 16:52:32 GMT -5
Three years this August! My kid is also going to be one year old in July. Where the heck does the time go?
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