8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Mar 2, 2011 15:11:31 GMT -5
Another thread got me thinking. We always advise marrying someone with similar financial values. Since there are a shortage of people with good financial values, I suspect that means there are some people who are doomed to die alone because they can't find a mate who happens to have good values.
I mean, I guess two people with bad habits would have an easy life together. They'd never fight about money, or maybe they would because they'd never have any but wouldn't understand WHY they had none and would have no idea how to fix it.
I get the idea is to reduce friction. Spenders and savers fight. But savers can make other savers seem like spenders... my head is spinning.
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TrixAre4Kids
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Post by TrixAre4Kids on Mar 2, 2011 15:34:10 GMT -5
Reading between the lines, sounds like you are butting heads with the DF again? If so, sorry to hear that..........
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Mar 2, 2011 16:06:12 GMT -5
Sometimes people just give up and live with it. I have a cousin who is married to a compulsive spender. She does not work outside the home - never has. Over the years they have filed BK twice. They rent an apartment. They are now in their 50's and have nothing for retirement.
I cannot fathom why he's stayed with her all these years, but it seems he's just given up. Or perhaps he's simply complicit. I don't know.
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Plain Old Petunia
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Post by Plain Old Petunia on Mar 2, 2011 16:08:47 GMT -5
I think those who are bad with money far outnumber those who are good with money. Ignorance is bliss.
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Post by cytoglycerine on Mar 2, 2011 16:25:20 GMT -5
I've got a set of married friends who are horribly mis-matched when it comes to money goals & values (I've posted about them a couple times in the past). She wants to buckle down, spend less, pay off their debts, and save - so I've been helping her construct a budget and a savings plan...But it's been tough because although he's on board with the idea of getting their shit together, he flat our refuses to have less than a $120/week spending allowance (they make ~$70k/yr combined and have A LOT of debt and NO savings whatsoever, so $120/week is way high for their situation) - and the worst part is that he doesn't correlate his excessive spending to the money problems they currently have. I love them both and I pray that they can compromise on their finances and come to a long-lasting agreement...Otherwise, I see nothing in their future but bankruptcy and divorce. ETA - Petunia, I totally agree!! I was lucky enough to find a mate with similar money attitudes as mine, but I have a seriously tough time finding friends with the same qualities.
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busymom
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Post by busymom on Mar 2, 2011 16:32:58 GMT -5
Watching mismatched marriages in finances is like sitting & waiting for a train wreck. It's sad, because the best of savers can be totally messed up by a chronic spender.
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sil
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Post by sil on Mar 2, 2011 16:34:49 GMT -5
DH isn't the best with money, so I do most of the financials in our family. He has access to a list of my passwords and knows where the critical docs are, but he's just not that interested. What makes our mis-match work is that he has enough respect for me and for my role with family finances that I know he wont go crazy with the credit cards.
But without me, he'd be financially doomed for sure!
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Mar 2, 2011 16:41:55 GMT -5
...:::"Reading between the lines, sounds like you are butting heads with the DF again? If so, sorry to hear that...":::...
Not at all. This is in response to the "fiance not on board" thread on Smart Spending, started by another poster. I did not want to hijack that thread, and I thought this would be much more fun on YM than SS.
Many of the responses involve the usual "don't marry someone who isn't good with money" (or at least, who doesn't share your values). I have wondered for a long time, that since there is a shortage of good money handlers, are some people always going to get ruled out as partners because of it? Or perhaps someone will have to accept a 'bad money handler' in exchange for other qualities (handy around the house, good looking, wants kids...)
...:::"I think those who are bad with money far outnumber those who are good with money. Ignorance is bliss. ":::...
That is part of what I'm saying. "Good money" people don't always get together. So bad money people end up scooping up the good money people (just like there are a shortage of "good" girls, and bad boys tend to scoop them up then stamp them out). So if you are a "bad money person" you have a big black mark against you, unless your mate is also bad with money and doesn't care that you are too.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Mar 2, 2011 16:49:51 GMT -5
I dunno if you shouldn't marry someone who isn't good with money...........As long as you come to a mutual agreement on how to handle things, you should be OK.
DH isn't particularly good with money, and is a very emotional investor. He wanted to pull all the money out of his 403(b) during the market crash and it took some extensive handholding and explainations to stop him from doing it. He's also not very organized or detail oriented. He recognizes we're better off if I handle the finances. I respect him enough to keep him in the loop, he trusts me to do what's right. It works fine for us.
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tloonya
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Post by tloonya on Mar 2, 2011 16:50:07 GMT -5
I would marry rich anytime! Anyone?
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dancinmama
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Post by dancinmama on Mar 2, 2011 17:02:59 GMT -5
When I met DH, he had a loan that he took out from Beneficial Finance to buy a stereo. BAD, BAD, VERY BAD!! For all intents and purposes, that is the last consumer loan that either of us has ever had. He makes the money and I make the money make money and handle everything else. He is going to retire soon and I am hoping to turn some of the finances over to him cuz after 30+ years, I'd like a break.
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ihearyou2
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Post by ihearyou2 on Mar 2, 2011 17:10:25 GMT -5
Nothing more boring then being of similar minds in everything, understand your weaknesses and work together like adults to each others strengths.
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Plain Old Petunia
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Post by Plain Old Petunia on Mar 2, 2011 18:41:32 GMT -5
My ex-husband and I were very mismatched financially. It caused a lot of problems.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Mar 2, 2011 18:45:45 GMT -5
I was thinking out how hard it would be to find a partner who had similar financial views, so the 'smart ones' could die alone.
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sil
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Post by sil on Mar 2, 2011 18:50:59 GMT -5
Or perhaps someone will have to accept a 'bad money handler' in exchange for other qualities (handy around the house, good looking, wants kids...) Read more: notmsnmoney.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=finance&action=display&thread=4199#ixzz1FUMWjLtlYou know, I was considering DH's lack of interest in finances as a shortcoming that is certainly outweighed by all of his wonderful qualities But on second thought, I actually think his lack of interest in finances might be another checkmark on the pro side. Sure, he sometimes grumbles about not having enough spending money, but I think I prefer that over having to come to consensus over Target Date fund 2040 or 2045? Pay the bill on the 1st of the month or the 15th? Or worse yet, both partners thinking that the other one went on-line to enter the payment amount for this month's gas bill, but later realize that its never been paid. Instead, I've got everything set up how I want it. I consult with DH about major financial decisions and we meet now and then to discuss how we are doing, if spending habits or anything else needs to be tweeked. But that's the extent of our money conversations, and they never become arguements. Plus, since I do the financial stuff, which he hates, he takes care of other chores that I dont like (e.g. picking up dog poop)
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Elizabeth
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Post by Elizabeth on Mar 2, 2011 19:36:03 GMT -5
Like I posted on the thread in SS, I married a man 9 years my senior who can't manage his money to save his life. If I could do it all over again, I am not sure I would marry him. I have experienced so much pain and humiliation as a result of his lack money management. I went from having perfect credit to getting anxious every time someone knocked on my door because once we bought a house (in my name), his creditor's knew where to find him and started to serve him with court papers about his debts. He would never fess up to knowing about the debts no matter what I said. His standard response is to look at it like he is confused and says "Oh, I'll call them tomorrow." Never calls. Why would he? He know's it's a valid debt, he just doesn't want to hear me talk about it. If you ignore creditors long enough they will garnish your wages. At one point he was being garnished $1,000 out of his paycheck for a car loan that he never made even ONE payment on before we met. It got so bad that we had to file Ch. 13 BK. A very humbling experience. Anyway, I'm not saying it will be this bad for everyone, but it has resulted in my resentment and a lack of trust towards my DH.
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Plain Old Petunia
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Post by Plain Old Petunia on Mar 2, 2011 19:57:49 GMT -5
Elizabeth, have you been able to work out a compromise which works for both of you? My ex and I never could.
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Post by gsbrq on Mar 2, 2011 20:07:11 GMT -5
I guess it depends. My SO and I have very similar financial values, and we don't fight about money. However...
We each have a few financial bad habits. I'm more of a spender than I'd like to be, and he's not always the savviest consumer. But his frugality helps me to reign in my spending, and my attention to financial/consumer matters helps guide him to better decisions. So neither of us is perfect, but we work really well together as a team.
I could never be with someone who was irresponsible with credit, though. I certainly understand if you've had problems in your past, but if you're not actively working towards fixing them, and if you haven't changed your behavior, there's no way I'd sign up to be part of that.
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Elizabeth
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Post by Elizabeth on Mar 2, 2011 20:56:35 GMT -5
Elizabeth, have you been able to work out a compromise which works for both of you? My ex and I never could. No we haven't. I can talk about it all I want, and he will say he agrees. However his actions say otherwise. I shouldn't even get mad anymore, because it should be no surprise when I receive a huge bill in the mail, but I do.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Mar 2, 2011 20:58:26 GMT -5
Sil, that describes my situation exactly. I like to handle the money, he hates dealing with the nitty-gritty of it, so we're both happy. As long as both parties are on the same page and the lines of communication are open, I don't think "good with money" and "bad with money" are star-crossed.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 2, 2011 20:59:33 GMT -5
You women are saints.
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flopsy
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Post by flopsy on Mar 2, 2011 21:20:03 GMT -5
I mean, I guess two people with bad habits would have an easy life together. They'd never fight about money, or maybe they would because they'd never have any but wouldn't understand WHY they had none and would have no idea how to fix it. i think spender couples fight plenty unless they are both in complete denial. i'm a saver and i had a run in with a spender who made much more than i did, acted the victim, was too embarrassed to discuss money, and saw me as a piggy bank. ass... anyways i love my BF because money doesn't embarrass him and even though i have and will out earn him he knows how to live with in his means and always insists on paying
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flopsy
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Post by flopsy on Mar 2, 2011 21:21:52 GMT -5
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Cookies Galore
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Post by Cookies Galore on Mar 2, 2011 21:22:37 GMT -5
Like I posted on the thread in SS, I married a man 9 years my senior who can't manage his money to save his life. If I could do it all over again, I am not sure I would marry him. I have experienced so much pain and humiliation as a result of his lack money management. I went from having perfect credit to getting anxious every time someone knocked on my door because once we bought a house (in my name), his creditor's knew where to find him and started to serve him with court papers about his debts. He would never fess up to knowing about the debts no matter what I said. His standard response is to look at it like he is confused and says "Oh, I'll call them tomorrow." Never calls. Why would he? He know's it's a valid debt, he just doesn't want to hear me talk about it. If you ignore creditors long enough they will garnish your wages. At one point he was being garnished $1,000 out of his paycheck for a car loan that he never made even ONE payment on before we met. It got so bad that we had to file Ch. 13 BK. A very humbling experience. Anyway, I'm not saying it will be this bad for everyone, but it has resulted in my resentment and a lack of trust towards my DH. So sorry to read this, but I thank you for posting your story. My BF has a terrible money history and as much as we talk about marriage, I am scared shitless of marrying him anytime soon. I'm not going anywhere and we are committed to one another, and he is making strides in righting his wrongs, but I still think being committed in a non-legal way is the way for us for the forseeable future. I believe in getting the milk for free, so to speak. ;D
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Elizabeth
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Post by Elizabeth on Mar 2, 2011 23:17:05 GMT -5
Like I posted on the thread in SS, I married a man 9 years my senior who can't manage his money to save his life. If I could do it all over again, I am not sure I would marry him. I have experienced so much pain and humiliation as a result of his lack money management. I went from having perfect credit to getting anxious every time someone knocked on my door because once we bought a house (in my name), his creditor's knew where to find him and started to serve him with court papers about his debts. He would never fess up to knowing about the debts no matter what I said. His standard response is to look at it like he is confused and says "Oh, I'll call them tomorrow." Never calls. Why would he? He know's it's a valid debt, he just doesn't want to hear me talk about it. If you ignore creditors long enough they will garnish your wages. At one point he was being garnished $1,000 out of his paycheck for a car loan that he never made even ONE payment on before we met. It got so bad that we had to file Ch. 13 BK. A very humbling experience. Anyway, I'm not saying it will be this bad for everyone, but it has resulted in my resentment and a lack of trust towards my DH. So sorry to read this, but I thank you for posting your story. My BF has a terrible money history and as much as we talk about marriage, I am scared shitless of marrying him anytime soon. I'm not going anywhere and we are committed to one another, and he is making strides in righting his wrongs, but I still think being committed in a non-legal way is the way for us for the forseeable future. I believe in getting the milk for free, so to speak. ;D Thanks Meghan-if my experience can help at least one person avoid the situation then my goal has been reached. I'm not trying to discourage anyone from marriage, I am just telling my story so others with this issue can get this resolved and have a happy married life.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2011 0:24:33 GMT -5
The other consideration not taken into account here is a persons ability to learn and change. Financial skills are not like eye color - fixed for life. Hubs was in debt, had a junk car and had dropped out of college when we met. He had no one to show him how to make his way in life. But he was (and is) the best person I have ever met.
And even though he had no money skills and had instincts about money that were invariably wrong, he was willing to change and learn. And that was the key. Today, he is much more practical about money and is extremely successful in his job and we've lasted for 37 years. All despite the fact he was once a financial trainwreck.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2011 3:29:10 GMT -5
I agree with Crabby and also believe that both parties can learn together.
DH and I started a little late (for young people) and both brought a little baggage to the party. Our engagement period (and living together) was an opportunity to get our financial act together. The fact that we did work on and made progress on our issues was a good indication of probable success. I worked two and sometimes 3 jobs to clean up debt an ex and I accumulated and DH reigned in his hedonistic spending and started to save. Since we had learned to live without my income it turned into pure savings when I paid off the debt.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 3, 2011 8:44:04 GMT -5
I've had to budget and be too frugal over the years to be interested in any financial train wrecks. Hence, DF.
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cael
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Post by cael on Mar 3, 2011 10:11:54 GMT -5
Let me add my story to this... my DF was terrible with money and bills his whole life. When we were dating & not living together, I'd always try to help and make suggestions, but nothing really stuck. He couldn't save money, it burned a hole in his pocket, he just spent it on crap. He did have the sense to close the one credit card he opened, and even though it took him long enough to pay what he owed, at least he didn't keep it open & run it up, he did know better than that. Anyway, we've lived together 4 years now. Before we moved in, I had a lot of talks with him about how he'd really have to grow up, learn to manage his paycheck, or let me do it if he didn't want to. We fought a lot, and despite his pushing back, he did work hard to get out of the bad ways he'd settled into (his mother & stepdad were partially to blame here, he had no examples growing up of good money management at all). I realized, and I think he did too, that we'd never last if he didn't shape up - in other words, I wouldn't stick around. It took a lot of work on both our parts and it took him really growing up & settling down and coming to terms with some emotional problems he had and which got worse after his dad passed away (DF found him ) He also realized there was a life he wanted to have, and to get there he had to change his ways with his money. So fast forward to now - he paid for my very nice engagement ring with cash and worked his @$$ off with overtime to pay for it, he's contributing to the wedding savings, he always has the right amount I need from him to pay the bills, and he isn't overdrawing his checking account anymore (well, maybe once every few months - that's good for him!). He has paid off old debts in collections he has and may have one more he's working on, but he's close to completely debt free and has zero interest in obtaining new debt, until we buy a house of course. It took this long, but we're on the same page because we know there's a life we want to move towards having - retirement funds, a house, etc. Once we're married, we're going to have our paychecks deposited into a joint house account and I will pay bills, put the right amount into savings etc., then we both get some leftover into our personal checking accounts from there. Just want to say that this is not always how it works out with people who are awful with money. I/we were lucky in that my DF actually wanted to change and have a better life for himself. Some people either don't care, or don't want to put the work into it. On the one hand, my feeling is that if you love someone, their financial management skills shouldn't be the top priority on your mind - if you love them, you love them. OTOH, money problems are probably one of the (or the) biggest problem in relationships, so, I don't know. It worked out for us! Sorry for the obnoxiously long post.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Mar 3, 2011 10:27:20 GMT -5
I've posted my story a million times. My DH comes from a family of 5 BK's between 4 people and his parents need all kinds of support from us all the time. He was about $100K in debt when I met him. I almost fainted when I heard the amount.
If he were to continue on his parents' path, no way we would be married. He is an amazing person, he has about a billion wonderful qualities about him, but I am not willing to live my life in this constant fear of future uncertainty. His father receives pension, i.e. gets income for life, we won't. So, unless he was willing to grow up and plan for the future and be responsible, it would be a no-go.
Lena
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