decoy409
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 27, 2010 11:17:19 GMT -5
Posts: 7,582
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Post by decoy409 on Mar 4, 2011 10:04:09 GMT -5
Say, they have me blocked out again here on MT. They are doing a great job with their computer program and not allowing me to enter today. That's what I would call sociopaths.
I can sign in and get to say this post or something else on the baord 'list' but that's it. Just like the good old days at MT MSN.
What? They do not want it to be known to quickly as to after midnight last night that the Central Bank will go ahead with the yuan as the new choice of Trading Currency due to the debt notes falter and fadeing away rapidly due to overprinting as was warned by the IMF? Now look what ben did. That's pretty funny stuff hey!
Sorry Mid for using your post to bring the news however it is as I have explained and how others will do things to hold back the news.
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Deleted
Joined: Nov 22, 2024 10:03:08 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2011 10:09:45 GMT -5
Archie-- do you suggest that you rising up in wealth on coat-tails rather than earned through effort is your "right"? Read more: notmsnmoney.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=moneytalk&action=display&thread=4197&page=2#ixzz1Fdw2h9m9So in the good ole days do you suppose that everyone who had a good idea for a business also had the "seed" money to start it? Or were there maybe a few people, who through their own business acumen, INVESTED in the good idea, to garner even more wealth Money begets money, which in turn, begets more money How many ideas die on the vine today, because the idea man doesnt have the money to make the idea turn to reality..... This has been going on for ages....and Wall street is just the latest delivery system Not all is right with the system....but to declare that it is ALL wrong is idiotic at best |
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decoy409
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 27, 2010 11:17:19 GMT -5
Posts: 7,582
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Post by decoy409 on Mar 4, 2011 10:23:21 GMT -5
It's all wrong. It's based on Oral Law of Kings who decide what will be and what will not. It is not decided by you and me and everybody else.
That great debate between Dems and Rep. put in play to devide the masses and keep Oral Law working strong.
It's all wrong.
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Post by comokate on Mar 4, 2011 12:41:04 GMT -5
Archie-- do you suggest that you rising up in wealth on coat-tails rather than earned through effort is your "right"? Read more: notmsnmoney.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=moneytalk&action=display&thread=4197&page=2#ixzz1Fdw2h9m9So in the good ole days do you suppose that everyone who had a good idea for a business also had the "seed" money to start it? Or were there maybe a few people, who through their own business acumen, INVESTED in the good idea, to garner even more wealth Money begets money, which in turn, begets more money How many ideas die on the vine today, because the idea man doesnt have the money to make the idea turn to reality..... This has been going on for ages....and Wall street is just the latest delivery system Not all is right with the system....but to declare that it is ALL wrong is idiotic at best Gdgyva, so much has been slung around on this board that is incorrect. I don't claim to speak for others here. I have no problem with investing itself, it's how much of it has de-evolved is where I have an issue. The investing that has gone on, as you noted, for ages, had a very different delivery system than the one in place today. There is not only very little accountability with the current system, there is often also very little understanding of the "product" being bought and sold. While the potential for gain is empathized , the potential for loss is glossed over. Prior to the Great Depression, most of the US, save for a few of the steel/industrial cities of the east, was still primarily agriculturally based. While the stock market did exist, the "average" American was not, personally, a participant. It was not until industrial production ramped up for WWII that we began exporting good to the world ( and it didn't hurt us that "the rest of the world" either had countries destroyed by bombing or were still in 3rd world/agricultural state ). The "average" American who retired prior to 1985 did not rely on their personal portfolios of stocks held, the average American relied upon a company sponsored pension ( aided by social security payments after 1936 ). The average American, with falling purchasing power, can ill afford the volatility of the stock market with regards to their retirement dollars. Ethical investment counselors advise average Americans to divest larger percentages of their stock portfolios as their clients increase in age, due to the very real potential for loss. In 1970-71, the minimum wage in the US was1.60 an hour. Adjusted for inflation, that would be over 9 dollars an hour today. Gasoline was 36 cents a gallon in 1970-71. A person making minimum wage could purchase 4 gallons of gas. The costs of what it takes to actually survive ( food, clothing, housing, education, transportation and health costs ) have skyrocketed. Wages, adjusted for inflation, have fallen behind. The average household income in 1970-71 was 10,600 dollars at a time when one wage earner per household was the norm. Adjusted for inflation, that would be an income of 60,000 dollars a year. How many households in the US have that yearly income now? And of those that do, is it one wage earner as before, or a combined income of more than one? The average American no longer has a pension plan. Not only are they being expected to live off less dollars, whatever remains ( if anything)after living expenses are paid is supposed to self fund their retirement. The average American cannot be assured their financial contributions to social security will ever be recovered. The average American is still being sold the dream that the stock market, as it stands today, will be their financial savior in their old age. Why? Because not only does the dream mask the reality that most Americans do not earn enough to adequately save for retirement, in the process of contributing their few hard earned dollars to the dream, commissions are being made for those that spin it- Like my criminal defense attorney patient stated when I questioned him as to how he could defend people he thought were probably guilty; "whether my client wins or loses, I still make money". |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2011 13:04:32 GMT -5
The "average" American who retired prior to 1985 did not rely on their personal portfolios of stocks held, the average American relied upon a company sponsored pension ( aided by social security payments after 1936 ). Read more: notmsnmoney.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=moneytalk&action=display&thread=4197&page=3#ixzz1Fef9vyQUThe average American now lives a longer life What companies...and governments used to be able to afford is no longer possible When social security was in it's infancy, there were 50 workers contributing for every one being paid the benefits Now that number is less than 3 to 1...because we live longer! Company pensions are the same....they are like the dodo bird....on the way to extinction Companies CANNOT afford to pay a retired worker for 40+ years...and neither can governments So something HAD to change...fine...you dont like the NEW system...come up with something better....but the OLD ways are dead....and cannot be revived under the same rules The math as they say......just wont work |
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Post by comokate on Mar 4, 2011 13:10:03 GMT -5
The "average" American who retired prior to 1985 did not rely on their personal portfolios of stocks held, the average American relied upon a company sponsored pension ( aided by social security payments after 1936 ). Read more: notmsnmoney.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=moneytalk&action=display&thread=4197&page=3#ixzz1Fef9vyQUThe average American now lives a longer life What companies...and governments used to be able to afford is no longer possible When social security was in it's infancy, there were 50 workers contributing for every one being paid the benefits Now that number is less than 3 to 1...because we live longer! Company pensions are the same....they are like the dodo bird....on the way to extinction Companies CANNOT afford to pay a retired worker for 40+ years...and neither can governments So something HAD to change...fine...you dont like the NEW system...come up with something better....but the OLD ways are dead....and cannot be revived under the same rules The math as they say......just wont work You are exactly right. The math does not work.... added note: you asked for a solution? How about solutions, very pro-American solutions, ones that reward the majority of America's citizens; wages that real Americans can live, realistically, upon. Severe penalties for companies that off-shore their workforce, that do not pay their workers a US living wage.. The biggest "war" we are in is an economic one. Let's fight to win. That's looking out for America, and Americans. |
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Post by frankq on Mar 4, 2011 13:14:20 GMT -5
A little homework and a sound strategy involving diversification, proper asset allocation, and an exit strategy to limit losses will do wonders for any portfolio. Blindly buy and hold forever, lock into one or two sectors, and avoid tracking your investments regularly, and you'll take it in the shorts. Many people who are crying about retirement now are the same people who are anti union (AND I"M TALKING PRIVATE UNIONS). Maybe now more people have a different perspective as far as working under a contract is concerned.
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Post by comokate on Mar 4, 2011 13:23:42 GMT -5
A little homework and a sound strategy involving diversification, proper asset allocation, and an exit strategy to limit losses will do wonders for any portfolio. Blindly buy and hold forever, lock into one or two sectors, and avoid tracking your investments regularly, and you'll take it in the shorts. Many people who are crying about retirement now are the same people who are anti union (AND I"M TALKING PRIVATE UNIONS). Maybe now more people have a different perspective as far as working under a contract is concerned. Frank, you and I usually agree on very little. One big item we agree upon is the concept of a "living wage". Unions have been the only bargaining representative the average American worker ever had. |
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Post by vl on Mar 4, 2011 13:47:18 GMT -5
Kind of sort of... Kate. This all began with the entity designation of "incorporation". Basically, somebody wealthy convinced government who didn't see future harm in it- the ability to turn a business into a quasi-person., but give that somebody "anonymity" with the ability to hire lawyers.
Unions came into existence as thugs beat the crap out of our grandparents over working conditions and prevailing wages. Sadly, it was a repeat of a similar scenario from just a few decades earlier. At the onset of the Industrial Age, those beatings were commonplace and without challenge by law or police. Today, corporations are giants no David can slay because he can't get past the rows of retained lawyers to reach a forehead to pelt a rock at.
If unions go, boards and corporate anonymity go with them. The answer is to make the retention of lawyers a county registry thing and done solely by individuals. No need for collective bargaining rights then, no instances of obliviousness from wealth peeing down on the masses.
We believe in Capitalism but we allow corporations to control the course of Destiny. Once the Founder dies, the business needs to be liquidated or sold at auction to the highest bidder (who takes over as Successor-Founder). Japan is looking into stuff like this right now. They have had enough of hired hand executives who are in it solely for the windfall.
Broader picture... patents are 2-3 years behind. More than 75% of pending lawsuits are against corporations across America. No barber, tailor, brewer or sailor can run for President and yet our history is built on such people doing so and winning.
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Post by frankq on Mar 4, 2011 13:49:59 GMT -5
A little homework and a sound strategy involving diversification, proper asset allocation, and an exit strategy to limit losses will do wonders for any portfolio. Blindly buy and hold forever, lock into one or two sectors, and avoid tracking your investments regularly, and you'll take it in the shorts. Many people who are crying about retirement now are the same people who are anti union (AND I"M TALKING PRIVATE UNIONS). Maybe now more people have a different perspective as far as working under a contract is concerned. Frank, you and I usually agree on very little. One big item we agree upon is the concept of a "living wage". Unions have been the only bargaining representative the average American worker ever had. Agreed |
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Post by vl on Mar 4, 2011 13:57:07 GMT -5
By the way... I'm only responding to the "needs a degree" thing because I can't let it go. I want my DOCTOR and my ENGINEER to have a degree or two because those fields require a depth of book-learned knowledge. If you "need" a degree to conduct business, sell, make, run or anything else that is categorized as "do", because your entry-level competence is insufficient, the ONLY course is to learn it as you go. There is ZERO VALUE in a MBA degree and sub-zero ability in those who possess them. Our entire economic crisis is predicated on MBA graduates in roles they didn't earn, black-balling those who can do those jobs-- because they paid for an education anticipating it to short-cut them to the top. I challenge ANY MBA degree holder to explain what the "top" is and where the value of being there fits into the whole concept of America. The degree and holders of it-- are cancer to us all.
A degree in Finance speaks for itself. It's a license to handle money and monetary transactions. In all my years in credit, finance and banking, I never ran across a degree that didn't have a fetish for money. Plain out-- you cannot be both, which is why complete segregation in the sector is critical to our recovery, if ever there will be one.
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Post by Steady As She Goes on Mar 4, 2011 14:12:02 GMT -5
That is all GREAT information Kate! And it begs the question ...... knowing ALL of this ... what actions did you take in the last 5 ... or 10 ... or 20 ... or even 30 years (I believe you said in one thread that you were in your early 50s) to GUARANTEE your retirement needs and those of your Family??
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Post by Steady As She Goes on Mar 4, 2011 14:15:52 GMT -5
Same question to you V-L?  You and Kate have all this great knowledge of what wrongs have been perpetrated in the last 30-50 years (or more) .... what actions or steps have you taken to GUARANTEE your retirement needs and those of your Family?? |
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Deleted
Joined: Nov 22, 2024 10:03:08 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2011 14:22:13 GMT -5
The "average" American who retired prior to 1985 did not rely on their personal portfolios of stocks held, the average American relied upon a company sponsored pension ( aided by social security payments after 1936 ). Read more: notmsnmoney.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=moneytalk&action=display&thread=4197&page=3#ixzz1Fef9vyQUThe average American now lives a longer life What companies...and governments used to be able to afford is no longer possible When social security was in it's infancy, there were 50 workers contributing for every one being paid the benefits Now that number is less than 3 to 1...because we live longer! Company pensions are the same....they are like the dodo bird....on the way to extinction Companies CANNOT afford to pay a retired worker for 40+ years...and neither can governments So something HAD to change...fine...you dont like the NEW system...come up with something better....but the OLD ways are dead....and cannot be revived under the same rules The math as they say......just wont work You are exactly right. The math does not work.... added note: you asked for a solution? How about solutions, very pro-American solutions, ones that reward the majority of America's citizens; wages that real Americans can live, realistically, upon. Severe penalties for companies that off-shore their workforce, that do not pay their workers a US living wage.. The biggest "war" we are in is an economic one. Let's fight to win. That's looking out for America, and Americans. The only problem with severe penalties is that the cost gets passed on to the consumer, or the companies leave for an easier business climate, or they just simply fold due to non-competitiveness. This is the price of globalization, NAFTA, etc. Since we're at the top of the living standard hill. The wealth redistribution that comes with globalization is only going to hurt our living standard. I wish it wasn't so, but the genie is out of the bottle, and there's no way to put it back. |
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reasonfreedom
Well-Known Member
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 8:50:21 GMT -5
Posts: 1,722
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Post by reasonfreedom on Mar 4, 2011 14:45:51 GMT -5
Kate and V_L, it looks like you have a stalker with a chip super glued to his shoulder.
I am not sure about wallstreet being full of sociopaths, but I do agre there is a lot of greedy people with influence over the lesser investors. I am curious if any of the investors here thought it was odd for GS to have a perfect trading quarter? I mean GS being so big with investments everywhere, what is the likelyhood of this?
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Post by Steady As She Goes on Mar 4, 2011 15:17:28 GMT -5
LOL .... not a stalker, reason .......... where do you guys come up with this stuff? I hadn't been on the board in a few days and was catching up. The information posted on this thread intriqued me to ask the question. If you'd like ... I could ask the same question to everyone on the board. Would that help? I didn't see you post anywhere in this thread, reason, until I did .... one could ask: Are you perhaps stalking me? |
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Post by comokate on Mar 4, 2011 15:31:12 GMT -5
Kate and V_L, it looks like you have a stalker with a chip super glued to his shoulder. I am not sure about wallstreet being full of sociopaths, but I do agre there is a lot of greedy people with influence over the lesser investors. I am curious if any of the investors here thought it was odd for GS to have a perfect trading quarter? I mean GS being so big with investments everywhere, what is the likelyhood of this? "stalker" ? With so much continual flack tossed around on this forum, I hadn't even noticed-  Steady- I've shared more personal info than most on this board. If curiosity continues to gnaw at you, you can always pull up my history of posts. And surely you are aware that at this point in our economy/society, no one is "guaranteed" anything ( except death and taxes...). |
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Post by Steady As She Goes on Mar 4, 2011 15:57:13 GMT -5
I guess I could call up your old posts, Kate ... but there are (at last count anyways) some 589 posts to go through. ... And that doen's cover anything posted on the old board that I don't remember or can't look at. And even if I did ... I'd hate to draw incorrect conclusions based on what or how I piece your posts together. So many would be taken out of context. I just thought it would be easier to ask you straight up!
You're right ... "Guaranteed" was a bad word. I was just curious what steps you took. I don't necessarily play on wall street ... save for the 401k account that my company INSISTS I enroll in and to get their MATCHING contribution ... (which I call "free money") ... but I have taken other means to "try and secure" a reasonable nest egg for retirement. Just wondering what you do? Or did? Since the market isn't big in your repertoire. And since V_L and you seem to agree on so much, I asked him as well.
No "gnawing" ... just asking!!!!!
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Post by neohguy on Mar 4, 2011 16:27:40 GMT -5
I guess I could call up your old posts, Kate ... but there are (at last count anyways) some 589 posts to go through. ... And that doen's cover anything posted on the old board that I don't remember or can't look at. And even if I did ... I'd hate to draw incorrect conclusions based on what or how I piece your posts together. So many would be taken out of context. I just thought it would be easier to ask you straight up! You're right ... "Guaranteed" was a bad word. I was just curious what steps you took. I don't necessarily play on wall street ... save for the 401k account that my company INSISTS I enroll in and to get their MATCHING contribution ... (which I call "free money") ... but I have taken other means to "try and secure" a reasonable nest egg for retirement. Just wondering what you do? Or did? Since the market isn't big in your repertoire. And since V_L and you seem to agree on so much, I asked him as well. No "gnawing" ... just aksed!!!!! I agree that contributing to get the company match is a no brainer in most cases. I think that our posters come from a wide range of economic strata so there are different strategy depending. One thing that I'm hoping the world learned from this economic collapse was the danger of debt. You mentioned on another thread that debt may be necessary for a home purchase and I agree. People have to live somewhere, whether renting or owning, but only buy as much house that you need with a mortgage payment that you can afford if you hit a bump in the road. Bumps happen. Recession, temporary job loss, broke a leg, divorce, etc. I'm a little concerned about the current trend of going back to failed policy by providing no down payment loans for new cars to people that probably have no business buying a new car. People in my neighborhood are receiving credit card applications for cards that will be abused. I consider credit card abuse to be anything that takes longer than 3-6 months to bring the balance to zero. Are we heading back there again? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2011 17:08:09 GMT -5
There will always be some with little or no money management skills...who abuse credit
If the banks are stupid enough to lend to those...they need to SUFFER the losses when, not IF they occur
VL
There will always be a need for managers to run business'es
The trend is for a lot of them to be lawyers, or MBA grads and i dont see this stopping anytime soon
I understand why they are cultivated...and sought after.
We have a circle jerk going in this country.
The CEO's answer to the boards and stockholders, who basically only care about their stock price and assets rising
Congress who controls the rules is bought and paid for by the lobbyist's who work for the corporations, so they keep the rules easy for the companies
One hand washes the other....and the rules that we used to have to circumvent the idiots have gone out the window
Maybe...with some of the changes in congress this will change
Until then....i just invest in P&G for the lotion sales
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Post by Steady As She Goes on Mar 4, 2011 17:36:08 GMT -5
I agree neoh ..... and it's because of those "different strategies" that I asked the question. Even though there are a plethora of economic situations out there ... what worked or works for them? Is there any common ground?
I get that a lot of folks are concerned to going back to failed policy ...... so what worked? .... what did they (are they) doing in spite of those "failed policies" to try and secure a reasonable nest egg for retirement?
And by-the-way ... I still get those credit card applications in the mail as well ... but they just go straight to the shredder.
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Post by Steady As She Goes on Mar 4, 2011 17:39:25 GMT -5
I'm not sure I want to know what this means ..... but that there is funny, I don't care who you are  |
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reasonfreedom
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Joined: Dec 21, 2010 8:50:21 GMT -5
Posts: 1,722
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Post by reasonfreedom on Mar 4, 2011 17:39:38 GMT -5
LOL .... not a stalker, reason .......... where do you guys come up with this stuff? I hadn't been on the board in a few days and was catching up. The information posted on this thread intriqued me to ask the question. If you'd like ... I could ask the same question to everyone on the board. Would that help? I didn't see you post anywhere in this thread, reason, until I did .... one could ask: Are you perhaps stalking me? Just a jest steady, i meant no ill will just having a little fun. I will admit is was poor form. My apologies. |
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Post by Steady As She Goes on Mar 4, 2011 17:44:12 GMT -5
apology accepted ... no worries
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reasonfreedom
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Joined: Dec 21, 2010 8:50:21 GMT -5
Posts: 1,722
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Post by reasonfreedom on Mar 4, 2011 21:12:27 GMT -5
apology accepted ... no worries ;D |
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Post by vl on Mar 4, 2011 22:03:58 GMT -5
"Same question to you V-L? " My father taught me to live on my salary, invest my bonuses, pocket the capital return, re-invest the return on investment. Never buy stock in a company when I can purchase upwardly-moving commodities. Never buy a book for the cover art, never be afraid to eat out of a dented can. Throughout most of the 1990s, my bonuses exceeded my salaries. The only time I've ever lost money in the markets was April, 2001. Regained it all by October, 2001. Never went "long" again on anything in the markets. I pay a SIGNIFICANT amount of taxes on my non-market gains every year and my gains are more consistent than the markets have delivered these past 10 years). A retirement can work two ways: amass cash and expect it to last to your death. That requires you to: wake up when you quit working and live within your means or have a guaranteed return to compensate for your spending (these past 10 years prove that NOTHING in organized finance guarantees this). The other is to recognize trends and keep shifting your cash to where it moves with the economy via its necessities. The latter provides for you indefinitely. Your spending is consistent with both your investments and returns because the method doesn't vary before or after retirement. My total asset values are only a small component of my retirement. Cash stream returns make the bulk of it. You help me earn every day and you don't know that you are. That's the beauty of it. The most important question I can ask back is-- do you do anything other than finance? Many people in their 30s-40s don't and the imbalance will absolutely guaranty that you won't cross the finish line with what you think you will. |
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Post by ComoKate2 on Mar 7, 2011 12:13:06 GMT -5
Well done. Somehow some here got me permanently banned.
Thanks to Neoh, VL, Old and Gray, Duff, RobinKing, Mid, Decoy, Virgil and others for the conversations and friendship.I'll be posting on Duff's board. To my friends I say, keep in touch-
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Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448 
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Mar 7, 2011 12:31:39 GMT -5
Bye Como.  |
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Post by frankq on Mar 7, 2011 14:27:28 GMT -5
Adios!Have fun with Duff.
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Tesla_DC-meme
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O B E Y
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Post by Tesla_DC-meme on Mar 9, 2011 13:51:16 GMT -5
Who does this sound like? Its like they know me.  |
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You and Kate have all this great knowledge of what wrongs have been perpetrated in the last 30-50 years (or more) .... what actions or steps have you taken to GUARANTEE your retirement needs and those of your Family?? 
