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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2014 7:54:48 GMT -5
I feel your pain. Even though I gave up Thanksgiving and Christmas a decade ago (grocery worker), I'm pissed that someone else is losing those holidays. It's incredibly painful and angering to have someone who has the holiday off tell you that your workplace will be open for business on that day and you'll be working. They are basically telling you that your relationship with your family is being sacrificed for their profits. maybe some people don't care about those holidays....maybe someone would rather work thanksgiving and have off for their kid's birthday....maybe they don't celebrate any holidays....maybe they're jewish or hindu or a flying spaghetti monster....I worked plenty of holidays in satellite operations support, in the grand scheme of things it wasn't a big deal....the world doesn't stop for holidays - if it did, nothing would ever get done.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2014 8:06:14 GMT -5
I got double time and a half working holidays. In 2005 and 2006 when I was working all the overtime I could, my family shifted the holidays so I could pull in the big bucks. When you're hurting for money and used to $12/hour and can make $30, you don't pass on it because it's a holiday. You celebrate Christmas on the 26th instead!
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Oct 15, 2014 8:42:56 GMT -5
It's not really about whether you celebrate the holiday or not. It's about being around the people you love because most of you have the time off. FWIW, you can get really cheap tickets if you are willing to travel on the 25th. A lot of observant Jews get family time out of the holiday in this way.
It's not all that easy to time-shift the holidays. After a couple of years, your family gets sick of having to ask for time off for the alternate celebration and just start having it without you. If you don't live close to your family, not being able to see them on T-day or X-mas really adds to the distance.
I scarfed down the time and a half for a couple years when I was broke and it made a hell of a difference. Now I'd prefer the time off.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2014 8:47:21 GMT -5
I will also tell you that all retailers don't pay time-and-a-half. When I worked at Parisian's, which was a Saks store, we simply got paid straight-time for the holiday. Then if you had to work, you got a comp day . . . at the store's convenience. In other words, it wouldn't have been during the shopping season. The amusing part is that they required you to ASK to get paid. Otherwise, you didn't get holiday pay. I never knew that Memorial Day was a retail holiday (stores are always open) so I didn't get paid for my first one. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/wink.png)
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2014 8:52:35 GMT -5
It's not really about whether you celebrate the holiday or not. It's about being around the people you love because most of you have the time off. FWIW, you can get really cheap tickets if you are willing to travel on the 25th. A lot of observant Jews get family time out of the holiday in this way. It's not all that easy to time-shift the holidays. After a couple of years, your family gets sick of having to ask for time off for the alternate celebration and just start having it without you. If you don't live close to your family, not being able to see them on T-day or X-mas really adds to the distance. I scarfed down the time and a half for a couple years when I was broke and it made a hell of a difference. Now I'd prefer the time off. Right, but there's usually enough people that want that hours to cover the holidays. Nobody at our company was forced to work them, there was enough volunteers to cover all the shifts. I realize some people are forced, which does suck, but I wonder how many it really is?
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Oct 15, 2014 11:00:02 GMT -5
It's more than are necessary and there's no real way of knowing the schedule until 3PM on the Friday before the holiday. That doesn't leave a whole lot of time for horse-trading or making travel plans.
We're unionized, and there's language that dictates how the holiday schedule should be constructed. (Volunteers first, then forced by reverse seniority, is what the contract mandates.) However, the scheduling program does not know what the contract says and the resulting schedule rarely follows contract.
You get to feeling a little pushed around and taken for granted.
We don't get many volunteers. We don't have enough Jews and gays to make a difference and a poorly-constructed contract means that people who volunteer for extra holiday work get paid less than people who are forced to work it.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2014 11:24:37 GMT -5
It's more than are necessary and there's no real way of knowing the schedule until 3PM on the Friday before the holiday. That doesn't leave a whole lot of time for horse-trading or making travel plans. We're unionized, and there's language that dictates how the holiday schedule should be constructed. (Volunteers first, then forced by reverse seniority, is what the contract mandates.) However, the scheduling program does not know what the contract says and the resulting schedule rarely follows contract. You get to feeling a little pushed around and taken for granted. We don't get many volunteers. We don't have enough Jews and gays to make a difference and a poorly-constructed contract means that people who volunteer for extra holiday work get paid less than people who are forced to work it. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/huh.gif) ?
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Oct 15, 2014 11:34:04 GMT -5
It's a reference to an old saying about Broadway.
It's also a sign of my age. Twenty years ago, there was a tradition of an "orphans Thanksgiving". When you weren't welcome at home, or your partner wasn't, you had your own Thanksgiving with similarly estranged friends or found something, anything, else to do. Even ten years ago if you were traveling home at the last minute before these holidays, you saw an awful lot of rainbow bumper stickers on the other cars on the road.
Thank goodness that is changing.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Oct 15, 2014 12:20:31 GMT -5
I feel your pain. Even though I gave up Thanksgiving and Christmas a decade ago (grocery worker), I'm pissed that someone else is losing those holidays. It's incredibly painful and angering to have someone who has the holiday off tell you that your workplace will be open for business on that day and you'll be working. They are basically telling you that your relationship with your family is being sacrificed for their profits. maybe some people don't care about those holidays....maybe someone would rather work thanksgiving and have off for their kid's birthday....maybe they don't celebrate any holidays....maybe they're jewish or hindu or a flying spaghetti monster....I worked plenty of holidays in satellite operations support, in the grand scheme of things it wasn't a big deal....the world doesn't stop for holidays - if it did, nothing would ever get done. 30+ years ago the world DID stop for holidays. I realize that world is gone but as a kid in the 70s, no stores were open on T-day or Christmas Day. I'm not even sure gas stations were open. And they just sold gas and maybe cigarettes. Yeah, I'm old.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2014 12:30:40 GMT -5
maybe some people don't care about those holidays....maybe someone would rather work thanksgiving and have off for their kid's birthday....maybe they don't celebrate any holidays....maybe they're jewish or hindu or a flying spaghetti monster....I worked plenty of holidays in satellite operations support, in the grand scheme of things it wasn't a big deal....the world doesn't stop for holidays - if it did, nothing would ever get done. 30+ years ago the world DID stop for holidays. I realize that world is gone but as a kid in the 70s, no stores were open on T-day or Christmas Day. I'm not even sure gas stations were open. And they just sold gas and maybe cigarettes. Yeah, I'm old. well no, it didn't totally stop.....police and firefighters and nurses and doctors and so on still had to work, just retail was closed.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Oct 15, 2014 13:54:07 GMT -5
30+ years ago the world DID stop for holidays. I realize that world is gone but as a kid in the 70s, no stores were open on T-day or Christmas Day. I'm not even sure gas stations were open. And they just sold gas and maybe cigarettes. Yeah, I'm old. well no, it didn't totally stop.....police and firefighters and nurses and doctors and so on still had to work, just retail was closed. Yep, I was just thinking about healthcare and others. There is no holiday pay or time off for me for the holidays. Maybe FTers might get some, but PT and per diem are just expected to work or find new jobs.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Oct 16, 2014 7:08:36 GMT -5
30+ years ago the world DID stop for holidays. I realize that world is gone but as a kid in the 70s, no stores were open on T-day or Christmas Day. I'm not even sure gas stations were open. And they just sold gas and maybe cigarettes. Yeah, I'm old. well no, it didn't totally stop.....police and firefighters and nurses and doctors and so on still had to work, just retail was closed. Good point. My grandfather was a firefighter but he retired around 1975.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Oct 16, 2014 7:31:31 GMT -5
I head to the beach when we are done eating. I guess I'm glad that the bars are open. Sorry for the bartenders.
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Post by 973beachbum on Oct 16, 2014 9:48:35 GMT -5
I head to the beach when we are done eating. I guess I'm glad that the bars are open. Sorry for the bartenders. As long as you tip them well I think they will be happy. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/grin.png)
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2014 9:50:41 GMT -5
I head to the beach when we are done eating. I guess I'm glad that the bars are open. Sorry for the bartenders. so how is a bartender having to work any different from a retail worker having to work?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Oct 16, 2014 9:56:37 GMT -5
It's actually not. But I'd bring my own stuff if they weren't. Not the end of the world.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Oct 16, 2014 10:02:05 GMT -5
I didn't mind so much when they were opeining at 10pm, but 8 was a little early but 6? So what time do you have to be in line to get the door buster deals? Just X off the Thanksgiving dinner with family so the ones that have to work can go stock the shelves and the ones that are going to shop are in line. Someone is at home getting the meal ready, but no one is going to be there to eat the food.
I liked it better when the world shut down for the day.
My list is started. DD wants a nook or a kindle. I need a new printer. I also need a cordless house phone. I really didn't want a house phone, but my TWC package was cheaper if I took the phone...since it is in the package, the conventional phone works better in the basement.
I want a new fridge...probably not going to happen this year though. A Lap top for DD is also needed by Graduation day, so we might buy one black friday.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Oct 16, 2014 19:34:50 GMT -5
You can hate me too, lol. We're going to Disneyland. It's not empty, but it's not crowded either . . . the wait in line is usually zero to 15-20 minutes tops. Then we stay home and do a big turkey dinner the next day when everyone is out killing themselves shopping ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/shocked.gif) . AAAAAAHHHHHHH!!! The source of my worst trauma: Disneyland on T-day. DS1 4.5yo and into the "wild" rides like Dumbo and Casey Jr. DS2an 8 months old who fell in love with Its a Small World with zero waiting time. xH took DS1 on the "wild" rides and I must have gone on IaSW at least 20 times -> baby happy, mom (aka Joss) AAAAAAHHH ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/sick.png) lifelong trauma!!! ETA: DS2 is now 32yo --- I wasn't kidding about the lifelong part See, TheHaitian, there are virtually NO lines at The Mouse House on Thanksgiving . One person's dream day is another person's nightmare ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/shocked.gif)
Sorry about your IASM trauma, NastyWoman. We just happen to love Disneyland ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/cool.png)
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Oct 16, 2014 19:37:53 GMT -5
So do I kittensaver but forget about IASW. NEVER AGAIN, EVER, EVER!!!
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Oct 16, 2014 20:32:52 GMT -5
Count me in among those who believe its much more about the retailers than the consumers. Each retailer is trying to outflank the others to capture the largest share possible of those shrinking holiday budgets.
Now wouldn't it be funny if these stores opened, but nobody was there?
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Oct 17, 2014 9:25:26 GMT -5
Count me in among those who believe its much more about the retailers than the consumers. Each retailer is trying to outflank the others to capture the largest share possible of those shrinking holiday budgets. Now wouldn't it be funny if these stores opened, but nobody was there? They say Cyber Monday will be a 2 day event this year. I plan to shop via the internet - I am disenchanted with Black Friday Shopping Anyways. I am not giving up time with family to shop/spend $$.
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Ombud
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Post by Ombud on Oct 17, 2014 9:32:45 GMT -5
Turkey Day is my favorite holiday and NOTHING will impinge on it. We do the turkey trot 5k then football then dinner during football then tag football in back.
I'll be out there early next morning then breakfast and more games
FWIW: I always volunteered to cover Christmas and Easter. That way I got Rosh Hashona and Yom Kippur off wo question
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Ombud
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Post by Ombud on Oct 17, 2014 9:38:50 GMT -5
You don't visit the grandkids? No, they spend all holidays with our DIL parents. So sorry♡ I get Thanksgiving & all Jewish holidays. Her sister gets Christmas & Easter
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Oct 17, 2014 9:50:39 GMT -5
I know a few people who have a family tradition of shopping on Black Friday. I personally don't find anything about shopping during that time to be fun but I do know families that seem to enjoy the whole standing in line for two hours and hoping to be one of the first 100 people to get a 42 inch TV for $300 or whatever. My BFF and her dad do this together every year. It is "their thing." They used to get up at 5AM on Black Friday and go wait in line. The last couple of years they have been thrilled to be able to do this on Thursday evening rather than early Friday morning. I don't know that they will feel about 6PM though because it could interrupt the flow of their Thanksgiving dinner with the rest of the family. It seems a little early for those that like to get in line 2 hrs prior to opening.
My family used to go to the movies after eating on Thanksgiving. I think movie theaters have been open for many years on Holidays.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Oct 17, 2014 15:05:54 GMT -5
...:::"I think movie theaters have been open for many years on Holidays.":::...
That and major movies opening on holidays like Christmas. With "Night at the Museum 3" this year and "Walter Mitty" last year, that is 2 Stiller christmases!
I can kind of understand opening at midnight on black friday. A midnight opening is kind of an established thing. But to open at 6pm, when the heck is the stock being done? Its not like stores will close on Wednesday. So Thanksgiving will probably become a full work day.
...:::"I know a few people who have a family tradition of shopping on Black Friday.":::...
I'd love to interview people who have such a tradition and ask them explicitly what would threaten their tradition. I get the excitement of doing doorbusters with family. Its one thing to be in line at 5am for an 8am opening. A Thursday at 6pm opening is a WHOLE different animal. Now the people who hate getting up early (or who may not have been off on Black Friday anyway) are potential competitors. Will people still try for doorbusters with a 6pm opening. Would they get in line at 6AM for a 6PM opening?
And yeah, the deals haven't been great for a long time.
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Ombud
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Post by Ombud on Oct 17, 2014 20:07:02 GMT -5
We have a family tradition of Black Friday shopping. Started when i was little with 10 am breakfast on Union Square in SF then shop then lunch. Now it's 6 am breakfast in Walnut Creek then shop. But now that we have to pay up to $2 hr to park here, might go in later after the crowds thin out (Last year GS1 & 2 had us at H&m at opening but with lattes).
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2014 21:43:55 GMT -5
I did the Black Friday once, when my whole family spent Thanksgiving with my cousin that lives in another state. She, my Mom and I got up before daylight to go shopping. NEVER AGAIN for me.
I refuse to set foot in a store on Thanksgiving Day. For me, its a day for family. I've had to work holidays before when I would have preferred to be with my family, so I don't want to be a part of the reason people that work retail have to work on Thanksgiving. I'm sure some don't mind, but I feel for the ones that do mind. I know my refusal doesn't mean anything in the grand scheme of things, but that's ok. I don't like shopping anyway. I wouldnt stand in line for hours and deal with that kind of madness hoping I'll be one of the lucky few to get a great deal on any day, certainly not on Thanksgiving Day.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Oct 18, 2014 6:24:33 GMT -5
I wonder, is there better behavior at certain stores? I've heard stories about people getting into fistfights. People will try to take things out of your cart. People will body check each other as they race for certain items. Or people will stand with their hand on an item and at midnight when the sale starts it will be a frenzy. I don't need to be trampled to death by some idiot rushing for a garbage $399 laptop.
Plus it seems more and more incidents of serious violence are happening (or at least getting press coverage). Like last year in MD, one person stabbed another after a dispute over a parking space. Walmart, of course...
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Ombud
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Post by Ombud on Oct 20, 2014 8:04:07 GMT -5
Never had anything like that. Of course we go to Macy's, H&M, and Urban Outfitters. No toy stores (I'll go to 5 Little Monkeys but not that day -- that'll be on Shop Small Saturday).
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Nov 8, 2014 11:49:13 GMT -5
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