Baby Fawkes
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Post by Baby Fawkes on Oct 11, 2014 23:12:26 GMT -5
Sorry, I skipped ahead of a number of comments, so hopefully I don't repeat / contradict anyone.
I think it's a really hard decision to make. As a cancer survivor myself I took the length of life option and decided to go through chemo. However, I think it's a very different question depending on stage of life and/or diagnosis. I was 17 years old and also given a 60% chance of long term remission with chemo so for me it was a no-brainer. Being a little older now I can understand the other view though. If the diagnosis was sure that I wouldn't have long term remission or if I had family to share my time with, I may be more inclined to go with quality at the expense of trying to prolong things.
As the OP mentioned, it's really hard to put yourself in that situation though, so what our choices may be at the time are very different to hypothesizing here and now. Another thing that I can speak from experience is that when you get that diagnosis your emotions and confusion are at the highest they've likely ever been so making a rational decision is also very tough to predict.
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milee
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Post by milee on Oct 12, 2014 7:26:43 GMT -5
Thank you for sharing your stories, everyone. It's such a complicated, nuanced subject. Not to mention emotional. Such a mix of joy and pain. But thank you for sharing both.
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dogmom
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Post by dogmom on Oct 12, 2014 8:31:02 GMT -5
I have a dear friend who recently was diagnosed with (at least right now) Stage 2+ throat cancer. His diagnosis is marginal. He's 59. He has chosen to go for radiation therapy. It begins on Tuesday. I'm happy for his choice, but scared at the same time. I'm not sure what I would choose. I have lost family and friends (fighting against this awful disease) Milee, I hope the best...
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Oct 12, 2014 21:06:19 GMT -5
A round of chemo may not tell you much. It may make you sick, but for many people the real effects of chemo won't kick in until successive rounds. Stage 4 lung cancer? Just give me some pain meds, I'm gonna hang out with my family and eat whatever I want. I fought through stage 4 colon cancer. I will never do it again. I was a horrible sick person. Now I live in fear that cancer is still in my body. Some parts of me have never been the same and I'm told I have to live with those problems. If I had it to do over again, I think I would have enjoyed what time I had left and enjoyed it immensely.
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Oct 12, 2014 21:20:23 GMT -5
A round of chemo may not tell you much. It may make you sick, but for many people the real effects of chemo won't kick in until successive rounds. Stage 4 lung cancer? Just give me some pain meds, I'm gonna hang out with my family and eat whatever I want. I fought through stage 4 colon cancer. I will never do it again. I was a horrible sick person. Now I live in fear that cancer is still in my body. Some parts of me have never been the same and I'm told I have to live with those problems. If I had it to do over again, I think I would have enjoyed what time I had left and enjoyed it immensely. I'm liking that you survived not what you had to endure. I've mentioned many times the family members, neighbors and friends I've lost to cancer. Unless the stage is really high I'd probably try radiation and chemo if the percentages of beating it was really high (stage 1 or 2?). If not - I'll just quietly say my good byes to everybody I care for and go naturally and hope for little to no pain or tons of meds. If I can't bear the pain (I am guessing as I've never had to test this yet so don't know 100%) I have no problem taking matters into my own hands. To all of you who've survived this heinous disease: And I to you for all that you endured and still beat it! To you, your family members, friends and neighbors - I send prayers and warmest thoughts that you beat this and may you stay strong while fighting for your lives and win.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Oct 12, 2014 21:26:26 GMT -5
Thank you POM. Like I said, I won't do it again if it comes back. I can't do it mentally again and the mental part is a big part of it.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Oct 13, 2014 8:48:01 GMT -5
I'm sorry to hear about your friend Milee.
ETA: a lot would depend on our financial state. If this happened right now, there is no way I could afford the treatments.
If my deal really was "die in a few months, or spend yourself into oblivion to die in a few extra months" I'd have a very busy few months.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2014 8:53:51 GMT -5
I am so afraid of cancer that I won't even get a mammogram which is really stupid since my Grandmother died of breast cancer, my Mom and an aunt both had it (aunt died) and my 42 year old cousin got it last year.
I keep trying to psych myself up to just go, but I can't. Part of me wants to just go all Angelina Jolie and just ask them to cut them off now.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Oct 13, 2014 10:47:55 GMT -5
I am so afraid of cancer that I won't even get a mammogram which is really stupid since my Grandmother died of breast cancer, my Mom and an aunt both had it (aunt died) and my 42 year old cousin got it last year. I keep trying to psych myself up to just go, but I can't. Part of me wants to just go all Angelina Jolie and just ask them to cut them off now. My best friend in college was like that. Her mom died of breast cancer, plus there were other women in her family that had it. They wanted her to start going to get mammos before she was 40. Eventually she went when she was ready.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Oct 13, 2014 11:19:58 GMT -5
There really is no possible way to know how one would react unless one is in that situation, but what do you guess you would choose? Why?
A few more months? Nope. I'd just try to have as many good experiences with my family as possible.
Now, if chemo could give me another year or so, that's a different story. A year is long and Babybird is so young right now that every year makes a huge difference. If possible, I would want her to remember me.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Oct 13, 2014 11:27:37 GMT -5
I'm sorry about your friend too, milee. What do you think you would do in his shoes?
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Oct 13, 2014 11:54:34 GMT -5
There really is no possible way to know how one would react unless one is in that situation, but what do you guess you would choose? Why?
A few more months? Nope. I'd just try to have as many good experiences with my family as possible. Now, if chemo could give me another year or so, that's a different story. A year is long and Babybird is so young right now that every year makes a huge difference. If possible, I would want her to remember me. The thing is, you won't know until you try. My dad is dealing with pancreatic cancer. He just went through both radiation and chemo and is continuing an ongoing chemo maintenance dose. NONE of the doctors will give him a prognosis of how long he's going to live, but at his CT scan he had done a week ago, there are no signs of the tumors anywhere. None of us believe that he is cancer free, but at this point he is not in bad shape. This could change in 6 months, or a year but pancreatic cancer is not going to kill him next month, or the month afterwards. One thing to note.....despite getting bombarded with chemo and radiation, his treatment had minimal impact on his QOL. I think that he said that the worst symptom was that he was tired and he'd go take a nap when he got home.
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milee
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Post by milee on Oct 13, 2014 12:58:02 GMT -5
I'm sorry about your friend too, milee. What do you think you would do in his shoes? I don't know. It's so hard to know what you'd do unless you are in that situation with that person's experiences, fears, goals, etc.
My boys are young enough that I think I'd fight like Hell for every single day extra, even if that meant pretty bad quality of life. That said, I'm a huge believer in quality over quantity. So I suspect when the boys are older, I'd want no part of any treatment that might extend my life a few months or even a year but that left me with poor quality of life. And for me, being too weak to be active or being constantly nauseous would count as poor quality.
I've been very lucky and lived a really good life. It hasn't all been good, but most of it has and I've gotten to do many things that people only dream about. I have two healthy boys with good futures. I've had fantastic adventures. I have great friends. It's enough and I'm very grateful. So I'm hoping I can be content with that, look forward to the fact that for those last few weeks I can eat all my favorite foods and go in my sleep like my friend's nana.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Oct 13, 2014 13:21:34 GMT -5
Quality.
My dad died from Alzheimers. He was on all kinds of meds that kept his heart pumping and his organs working, then for the last week of his life they put him in hospice and took him off all his meds. In less than a week he was dead.
That man was in misery for the last three years of his life. Couldn't remember his kids, couldn't remember how to turn a light on, couldn't dress himself, or bathe himself, or finally, even how to find the toilet and wipe himself afterwards. He died like an eggplant, unable to speak, unable to move. Now my mom has dementia and is experiencing the same slow but relentless decline. She is unhappy where she is living, she complains about everything and everyone, her bones and muscles ache, she can't remember who her grand kids are - the one pleasure she still seems to get is from eating. That is no kind of life.
No question that I will kill myself if I find myself heading in this direction. Modern medicine can't do anything to help you, they can only keep your organs functioning long past the time when your mind stops working. I don't want to live suspended in limbo like that, and I absolutely don't want my hard earned money going to pay for someone to wipe my ass for me and help me take a shower.
I always laugh when I see people dedicating their lives to making their bodies perfectly functioning machines in the hope that they can live to be 100. With more and more people living longer lives, chances are they WILL get to be 100 - but there is no guarantee, no matter how fit and trim their bodies are, that their minds won't turn to mush by 85.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Oct 13, 2014 13:33:38 GMT -5
That man was in misery for the last three years of his life. Couldn't remember his kids, couldn't remember how to turn a light on, couldn't dress himself, or bathe himself, or finally, even how to find the toilet and wipe himself afterwards. He died like an eggplant, unable to speak, unable to move. That was my grandma too. It just tears your guts out to watch a loved one degenerate so much, and over such a long period of time. I don't know what the answer is but going through whole years in that state can't be the right thing for anyone.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Oct 13, 2014 15:05:09 GMT -5
That man was in misery for the last three years of his life. Couldn't remember his kids, couldn't remember how to turn a light on, couldn't dress himself, or bathe himself, or finally, even how to find the toilet and wipe himself afterwards. He died like an eggplant, unable to speak, unable to move.That was my grandma too. It just tears your guts out to watch a loved one degenerate so much, and over such a long period of time. I don't know what the answer is but going through whole years in that state can't be the right thing for anyone. Everyone gets their britches in a knot when the words 'assisted suicide' are used, but we need to discuss this as a nation. I have a living will and made it clear to DH and DS that I do NOT want to be kept on life support. I should also be able to say that once I can no longer do certain things - bathe myself, get to the toilet on my own, remember to take my meds on my own, remember my DS's name - I want assisted suicide. As fewer people die from heart problems and cancer, more people will end up with dementia, sitting in nursing homes staring at the walls, bitching (like my mom does) that she's being held there against her will, even though she doesn't know what time it is, what day it is, what month it is, or even whether she just had breakfast or lunch. Most of those people would not have wanted to live that way, and our economy can't afford to house a whole shit load of baby boomers who are in this condition, especially if they never set aside money for their own long term care. When my dad started having serious memory problems he told me he wished he had a gun so he could kill himself. I wish he had a faster way out of the misery than he did. I hope I have a way to quickly and painless terminate my own life, if it comes to that.
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Abby Normal
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Post by Abby Normal on Oct 13, 2014 15:30:13 GMT -5
About 18 months ago a friend of mine was diagnosed with liver cancer. They estimated that she had about 3-4 months. She sought out different options and looked into Cancer Research center, but nothing was expected to work. In the end, she decided to go ahead and do some chemo to buy herself a few more months to put her affairs in order. Well the chemo worked. She's in remission and her Dr refers to her as the miracle.
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sapphire12
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Post by sapphire12 on Oct 13, 2014 17:51:27 GMT -5
About 18 months ago a friend of mine was diagnosed with liver cancer. They estimated that she had about 3-4 months. She sought out different options and looked into Cancer Research center, but nothing was expected to work. In the end, she decided to go ahead and do some chemo to buy herself a few more months to put her affairs in order. Well the chemo worked. She's in remission and her Dr refers to her as the miracle. This is great agilemom!
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Oct 13, 2014 18:45:19 GMT -5
For those of you who want to stay alive for the kids - how do you think it will effect them? Seeing you sick? Would you think it would be better for them not to remember months and months of very sick parent? Or being around would "make up" for it?
Like I mentioned, I would make a terrible sick person. I think it would be so much worse for the boys if I got cancer-sick for an extended period of time. I can just see myself being whiny and moody and not too nice to them.
I don't know....
Definitely one of those "what you think you'll do and what you will actually do" might be very very different.
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milee
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Post by milee on Oct 13, 2014 19:04:59 GMT -5
For those of you who want to stay alive for the kids - how do you think it will effect them? Seeing you sick? Would you think it would be better for them not to remember months and months of very sick parent? Or being around would "make up" for it? Like I mentioned, I would make a terrible sick person. I think it would be so much worse for the boys if I got cancer-sick for an extended period of time. I can just see myself being whiny and moody and not too nice to them. I don't know.... Definitely one of those "what you think you'll do and what you will actually do" might be very very different. Yes, totally agree there's no way to actually know until you're in that situation. That said, I'm a pretty low maintenance sick person normally. Obviously, I've never been through chemo, so that could be my Kryptonite. But with most "sick" stuff, I'm fairly OK. When I broke my foot on a Sunday a few years ago jumping off the boat, I knew exactly what happened because it made a horrible noise and hurt like fire, but let the family finish their splashing before going home to prop it up and wait until the next day when I could go to an orthopedist (didn't want to go to the ER). Both kids were born without pain meds because I was creeped out by the idea of a needle in my back and the possible effects of the meds. I've run a marathon and I'm not a runner at all. So there are a lot of things I can tough through. That said, those are all very different than dealing with the constant wear of feeling like crap 24/7. So maybe I'd be a whiny mess.
No idea if it's a "boy" thing or a "kid" thing, but unless I was very obviously sick, like literally puking at dinner, I don't think my kids would notice much. They're pretty oblivious. Once when I cut 8" off my hair, it was 3 days before any of them noticed. So I'm pretty sure they'd rather have me around fighting it (and cooking them food and washing their underwear and joking with them about what they're doing) than not.
So I don't know how I'll act or how it would impact them. And I hope we never have to find out.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2014 20:29:45 GMT -5
For those of you who want to stay alive for the kids - how do you think it will effect them? Seeing you sick? Would you think it would be better for them not to remember months and months of very sick parent? Or being around would "make up" for it? Like I mentioned, I would make a terrible sick person. I think it would be so much worse for the boys if I got cancer-sick for an extended period of time. I can just see myself being whiny and moody and not too nice to them. I don't know.... Definitely one of those "what you think you'll do and what you will actually do" might be very very different. Well, before about 2 years ago I used to get horrible migraines for several years. We're talking puking every 15 minutes sometimes for 2 or 3 days...and yes, there were some times when I remember telling my husband I just wanted to die. Not sure I meant it, but I definitely said it! I still get them, but now I have meds, so rarely do they ever get out of control like before. Point is, my kids have seen me pretty sick for stretches and no, I wasn't a very good mom then, but we all got through it. Also, I'm not sure my ultimate goal would be to just "be around" for a while longer, my hope would be to make it through and be one of those cases that goes into remission. Plus, you never really know how chemo is going to effect you. Some don't get horribly sick. My 12 year old son is the kid that would be on the computer looking up statistics and treatments. He is super sensitive and starts crying if I even mention his cat is getting up there. He would be very upset if I told him I wasn't going to do anything. So, even if I knew there was no hope, I could see trying for his sake. Then again, I've never had this conversation with him, so maybe he would surprise me. The 4 year old wouldn't understand no matter what.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Oct 14, 2014 7:31:26 GMT -5
I know three nurses who have some form of cancer and they all refused to treat it because they've seen the effects of chemo and figured going through that was worse than dying from cancer.
I also know two co-workers who got cancer and did the whole chemo-radiation thing, spending the last six months of their lives frail, puking, and constantly sick, but died anyway, within a year, which makes you question why they suffered the way they did.
I know another man who had bone cancer and had aggressive chemo/radiation to treat it. Ultimately the cancer was in remission but the side effects were so severe he was unable to do much more than lay in a recliner and watch TV. Every six months or so his bowels would twist and he would have a blockage which should have been handled through surgery but he was so frail they didn't think he would survive it, so he'd spend a week or so in the hospital, in misery, hoping the blockage would fix itself. He ended up with five extra years of life, but I wouldn't call what he did 'living.'
I would have to think really long and hard about whether or not I would opt to treat a cancer. My DS is grown, and having watched my dad and mom decline through alzheimers/dementia, maybe dying rapidly from cancer (while high on pain meds) is a better death than that slow, humiliating decline. If it was a treatable cancer, I probably would make an effort, but if the odds were against me, nope.
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Jake 48
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Post by Jake 48 on Oct 14, 2014 8:09:38 GMT -5
Watched a friend go through this at 41,I was in the hospital with him when he passed, left behind a wife and a 2 yo daughter. I would never do chemo to buy a few months, keep me comfortable, let me make peace with everyone and go with dignity
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2014 11:36:45 GMT -5
I am so afraid of cancer that I won't even get a mammogram which is really stupid since my Grandmother died of breast cancer, my Mom and an aunt both had it (aunt died) and my 42 year old cousin got it last year. I keep trying to psych myself up to just go, but I can't. Part of me wants to just go all Angelina Jolie and just ask them to cut them off now. Please go get one now. schedule one this week.
your boys need you, especially the youngest.
I have an appointment for tomorrow morning. I was hoping to get in today when the kids were out of town with my Mom, but I procrastinated until just minutes before the office closed yesterday and they were booked up. Hopefully I don't chicken out and use no childcare as an excuse.
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gacpa
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Post by gacpa on Oct 16, 2014 11:58:41 GMT -5
MPL,
You are doing the right thing. Do not chicken out and that is an order! So proud you are going to get this done-- good for you.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2014 12:06:34 GMT -5
I used to have really bad anxiety and panic attacks. It's improved tremendously with age, but this is just one area that I still get sweaty palms and my heart starts palpating. Luckily the ex left some xanax.
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sapphire12
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Post by sapphire12 on Oct 16, 2014 13:11:41 GMT -5
You can do it MinnesotaPaintLady!
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cktc
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Post by cktc on Oct 16, 2014 14:16:47 GMT -5
My answer would be different if it wasn't stage 4. There's no cure for that. There's no cure for the 3b my grandpa had. Cancer sucks! I know someone who is 6 years and counting past a stage 4 lung cancer diagnosis. It's not common, but it happens. I think quality goes out the window as soon as cancer enters the equation, so for me it would be more about being physically, emotionally, and mentally prepared to fight it.
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gacpa
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Post by gacpa on Oct 16, 2014 16:58:17 GMT -5
Take a little Xanax if you need it to get through it. I have some Xanax also, but I only take it when I am overwhelmed. Like when my Dad died and I had to remain calm to get through the days ahead. Public displays of emotion are highly frowned upon by my mother, so I had to keep a stiff upper lip.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Oct 16, 2014 18:21:31 GMT -5
Stage 4? I have no doubt what I'd choose. I'd refuse chemotherapy and request hospice care. Stage IV lung cancer means that the cancer has metastized to his brain, liver, and/or a few more critical organs. My mom's lung cancer metastized to her brain stem. Prognosis is usually in weeks, not months. Mom died about 10 weeks after she was diagnosed and she had radiation therapy. The therapy alleviated her symptoms some. My dad has just undergone chemo for pancreatic cancer. According to him, it was not as bad as he anticipated and his worst symptom was lack of energy. He is on some sort of maintenance chemo now, but the doctors can't find any cancer now. I know the prognosis sucks, but if the chemo bought him 6 months or a year, how do you put a price on this? As everyone's situation is different, who is to know how I'd respond? Mich,
What stage is your dad's cancer? I know of a few people who have lived for 5 years with all but the last year pretty well.
My mom didn't last long because when she finally went to the doctor she was diagnosed at stage 4 and the cancer had metastasized to her liver, bones and a couple of other organs.
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