Life: Quantity vs. Quality

[milee]

I have a friend that was just diagnosed with stage 4 lung cancer. He's in the process of deciding if he wants to go through chemotherapy. More data is being gathered and will be needed before they know if he's even eligible for chemo, but the preliminary discussions with the docs indicate that without chemo he's looking at a few months to live. With chemo he's looking at maybe extending that to a few more months.

There really is no possible way to know how one would react unless one is in that situation, but what do you guess you would choose? Why?

[The Captain]

Quality.

If the mid to long term prognosis wasn't good I'd want my final days to be as good as possible.

My sister went through chemo.  It's not fun.  In her case she had (and still has) a good prognosis, but I would not put myself through what she went through only to buy a few months.

[yogiii]

No chemo, just spend time with my family.  I spent time with both of my grandmothers as they died from cancer.  It's an awful thing.

[wvugurl26]

I would probably skip chemo and enjoy the time I had left. My grandpa was diagnosed with stage 3b lung cancer and was gone less than a year later even with radiation. Radiation ran down his immune system and strength in general and he contracted MRSA in the hospital and died from that.

[Nazgul Girl]

   I'd get the chemo, for at least one round, and see how I felt.   I wouldn't refuse the treatment until I really knew how I personally felt while receiving it.   JMO.

[Malarky]

Quality.

I've watched enough people suffer for a few more months, then die anyway.  
It was painful, both physically and emotionally.  And the expense for a few more months of misery doesn't seem to hold enough ROI to suit me.

But unless I'm actually experiencing it, I can't know for sure.  Maybe I would just want to live at all costs.     That seems to be what most people choose, no matter what the odds.

[ArchietheDragon]

Give me life.   

I am a selfish bastard and want to live as long as possible. 

[zibazinski]

DF is the same way. He doesn't care what it costs or what he puts anyone through. To me, that's HIS choice. That's why I didn't want to give him medical POA. I'm amazed he wanted to give me his when I hold the exact opposite view. 

[Deleted]

Oct 10, 2014 13:54:13 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

Give me life.   

I am a selfish bastard and want to live as long as possible. 

I might feel differently when my kids are older (or after a round of chemo), but at this point, I'd want them to know I tried. 

[myrrh]

Go through chemo to gain a few months? Nuh-uh, no way, no thank you. Chemo sucks. My former office mate went through chemo and lost much of his sense of taste and smell, and now can only eat certain things. I'd rather spend the time and the money on my bucket list.

[Pants]

A round of chemo may not tell you much. It may make you sick, but for many people the real effects of chemo won't kick in until successive rounds.

Stage 4 lung cancer? Just give me some pain meds, I'm gonna hang out with my family and eat whatever I want.

[myrrh]

Now if was a question of living a normal life span after chemo my answer would be different, particularly since I have young kids.

[giramomma]

Oct 10, 2014 13:54:13 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

Give me life.   

I am a selfish bastard and want to live as long as possible. 

I want to live a long life, too.

But, I'm also OK with going whenever it's my time. 

I'm comfortable in knowing who my kids are (though it would be nice to get to know the littlest a little more.) Fundamentally, I know their strengths and weaknesses. I've behaved in such a way that they know I love them. Who knows if I could still behave like that while on chemo.

I've made peace with my demons. I think I've learned all the lessons that I'm supposed to have.

I've had a good life.

There's really nothing more that 2 months would add to my experiences. Well, I shouldn't say that. I'd try to get over to Europe one more time, and maybe Alaska. But, really, in the great scheme of things...I don't think my life would be all that much more enhanced.

I had a dream once about (me) dying. It was so beautiful.

[Pants]

Oct 10, 2014 14:04:23 GMT -5 myrrh said:

Now if was a question of living a normal life span after chemo my answer would be different, particularly since I have young kids.

BTW, I agree with this as well. It's the cost/benefit analysis that you have to do. I think the article I posted in the death with dignity thread belongs over here even more, but I'm too lazy to go find it. Talks about the difference between how doctors spend their last days and how their patients spend their last days. Overwhelmingly, doctors refuse most medical intervention, with the exception of pain meds, and just try to enjoy the time they have left. They don't sacrifice quality for quantity.

ETA: I have a 2yo and one on the way. I don't want to die, and if there was a chance, I would fight. But for a situation like lung cancer, pancreatic cancer, etc., I think I would choose quality.

[Pants]

Oct 10, 2014 14:09:40 GMT -5 Pants said:

Oct 10, 2014 14:04:23 GMT -5 myrrh said:

Now if was a question of living a normal life span after chemo my answer would be different, particularly since I have young kids.

BTW, I agree with this as well. It's the cost/benefit analysis that you have to do. I think the article I posted in the death with dignity thread belongs over here even more, but I'm too lazy to go find it. Talks about the difference between how doctors spend their last days and how their patients spend their last days. Overwhelmingly, doctors refuse most medical intervention, with the exception of pain meds, and just try to enjoy the time they have left. They don't sacrifice quality for quantity.

ETA: I have a 2yo and one on the way. I don't want to die, and if there was a chance, I would fight. But for a situation like lung cancer, pancreatic cancer, etc., I think I would choose quality.

Also I just made myself cry. I hate being pregnant.

[zibazinski]

[midjd]

Stage 4 lung cancer? Just give me some pain meds, I'm gonna hang out with my family and eat whatever I want.

 I'd probably also start doing a lot of fun drugs. 

Milee, I'm sorry about your friend. 

[TheHaitian]

No kids , my wife and mom will be fine after grieving.

Give me quality.

Kids... I will probably try to fight it to the bitter end because I would want to enjoy every possible second I could get with them.

Yes I would probably feel like shit, some days worse than others... But it is still 1
More day or hour or minute I get to spend with them.

[TheHaitian]

Sorry Milee about your friend!

[whoisjohngalt]

I think my fear of throwing up would make me refuse chemo.

Also, I think I would make a terrible sick person.  I would not be one of those who are strong and cheerful and "brings light to people" kind of sick person.

[Deleted]

It would really depend on the likelihood of success of the treatment. I wouldn't do it just for another year of existence.

I've seen people go to extreme measures, one of which made sense and the other which didn't. A co-worker with a young daughter developed breast cancer and told them to be as aggressive as they had to be to get rid of it. She ended up with side effects that meant she couldn't work anymore (mainly memory problems), but she survived.

OTOH, a lady in my previous church developed lymphoma in her 80s. She went for an autologous bone marrow transplant. It's drastic, you're in isolation for long periods because you have no immunity left, and it's terribly expensive. It didn't work. If that happens to me in my 80s I hope I have the grace to resist something that crazy.

Oh, yeah, a third case- another coworker who developed lymphoma in his 50s and also got an autologous bone marrow transplant and it was successful. I think it's a different decision in your 50s than in your 80s.

DH has polycythemia and it can morph into lymphoma. He's 76 and anticipates either palliative care or assisted suicide if that happens. I'll support him either way.

Oct 10, 2014 14:16:43 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

Also, I think I would make a terrible sick person.  I would not be one of those who are strong and cheerful and "brings light to people" kind of sick person.

 

I'm with you.  I'm so darn healthy 99% of the time that when I'm sick I complain a lot.

[souldoubt]

Quality. The people I know who died from cancer had zero quality of life at the end as they were hopped up on pain meds and laid up in a hospital. One of them didn't even want her family to visit her and she told them to go on a family trip they had planned months before. I'd prefer not to see people go out like that or go out that way myself.

[souldoubt]

Also milee I'm very sorry to hear about your friend.

[cronewitch]

Mom was 86 when they said pancreatic cancer, she didn't allow a biopsy so they couldn't do treatment. She wanted Hospice instead so had 20 days of reasonable life a few more days didn't mean much to her, she was ready to go.

I am 66 and have nothing to live for so wouldn't fight for a little more time. My aunt had terminal breast cancer they offered her chemo to get a few more weeks and she tried it. That was almost 35 years ago, she is 86 now and cancer free. She wanted the extra time because her son was special needs and she was hoping to live to see him finish high school now he is 50.

[mmhmm]

Oct 10, 2014 13:44:26 GMT -5 milee said:

I have a friend that was just diagnosed with stage 4 lung cancer. He's in the process of deciding if he wants to go through chemotherapy. More data is being gathered and will be needed before they know if he's even eligible for chemo, but the preliminary discussions with the docs indicate that without chemo he's looking at a few months to live. With chemo he's looking at maybe extending that to a few more months.

There really is no possible way to know how one would react unless one is in that situation, but what do you guess you would choose? Why?

Stage 4? I have no doubt what I'd choose. I'd refuse chemotherapy and request hospice care.

[Tiny]

Oct 10, 2014 13:44:26 GMT -5 milee said:

I have a friend that was just diagnosed with stage 4 lung cancer. He's in the process of deciding if he wants to go through chemotherapy. More data is being gathered and will be needed before they know if he's even eligible for chemo, but the preliminary discussions with the docs indicate that without chemo he's looking at a few months to live. With chemo he's looking at maybe extending that to a few more months.

There really is no possible way to know how one would react unless one is in that situation, but what do you guess you would choose? Why?

I've given this kinda thing alot of thought.  At this time, as things stand in my life - I'd decline the chemo.    There isn't anything on my 'year out' horizon I absolutely need to be there for that effects other people.  ie - to see someone wed, to see a new baby, to be there for someone sicker than I would be, etc.      I think I could "wrap things" to my satisfaction with just a few months notice.   in other words, no fuss no muss no long drawn out illness.   The fact that I'm an introvert may be driving this.

Of course, my answer might change in the future - if I did really want to 'be there' for someone or something special that was within the time lines of my illness I MIGHT be tempted to 'do it for the Gipper' and go the extra mile.  

[Phoenix84]

I would have to evaluate how much time I'd gain from such intensive treatment.

Going through Chemo for a few months probably isn't worth it.

[mmhmm]

Oct 10, 2014 14:12:01 GMT -5 Pants said:

Oct 10, 2014 14:09:40 GMT -5 Pants said:

BTW, I agree with this as well. It's the cost/benefit analysis that you have to do. I think the article I posted in the death with dignity thread belongs over here even more, but I'm too lazy to go find it. Talks about the difference between how doctors spend their last days and how their patients spend their last days. Overwhelmingly, doctors refuse most medical intervention, with the exception of pain meds, and just try to enjoy the time they have left. They don't sacrifice quality for quantity.

ETA: I have a 2yo and one on the way. I don't want to die, and if there was a chance, I would fight. But for a situation like lung cancer, pancreatic cancer, etc., I think I would choose quality.

Also I just made myself cry. I hate being pregnant.

It's not the pregnancy, necessarily. I have a tendency to tear up when reading this type of thread and I'm sure not preggers!

[zibazinski]

Not only that but I want my end of life drug in a piece of yummy chocolate cake. I'm going to die happy!

[Bob Ross]

I would definitely choose having awesome cancer over having more cancer.

Wait.  What?