NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Oct 9, 2014 12:51:12 GMT -5
I realized when reading Curious George to Gwen that the man in the yellow hat is a poacher. There went that happy childhood illusion.
I'm not for censoring books. Gwen's four so we really don't have to worry all that much about it right now, but as she gets older I don't plan on restricting her reading.
I'm weird with TV. I am sure there are people who are going to flip as I admit that we allow her to watch Walking Dead and True Blood with us. It doesn't bother me.
What bothers me are cartoons like Sanjay and Craig or Amazing World of Gumball. She bounces of the walls if I allow her to watch those shows. I really feel like they contribute to hyper activity. So I don't allow her to watch that stuff. Which is funny when you consider I used to watch Pee Wee's Playhouse every Saturday morning.
DH censors himself when it comes to video games. He let Gwen play Grand Theft with him once, then she asked us if we could blow up a cop car in RL that we drove by. DH decided after that it wasn't such a good idea to let Gwen play video games with him anymore. He plans on buying a few G rated games when she gets older.
I don't plan on censoring the internet unless she gives me cause. We're going to install that software that tells us exactly what she's looking at so we know what's going on but can give her the illusion of freedom so she can learn to be responsible without us obviously hovering over her.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Oct 9, 2014 12:51:54 GMT -5
Bolded part makes me stabby and every freaking Thomas the Train book is like that.
Obviously books for kids who just started reading aren't going to have much of a plot beyond "Time for bed Biscuit!" (OMG... DH and I felt so much anger toward that small yellow dog we considered writing our own sequel called "Biscuit Plays On The Freeway.") But I assumed Lena was talking about older books since she mentioned character stories. I've never heard of Magic Tree House. Ah Biscuit... Come to think of it, I'm not sure what happened to our copy... Maybe we censor more than I think.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Oct 9, 2014 12:55:55 GMT -5
Ah Biscuit... Come to think of it, I'm not sure what happened to our copy... Maybe we censor more than I think.
I know what happened to our copy. It went to visit a happy place in the woods where problems disappear.
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sesfw
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Post by sesfw on Oct 9, 2014 13:11:17 GMT -5
Being an OF I don't know anything about the kids books of today. In the 60s and 70s when DD was growing up we censored the movies more than the books.
Only example I can think of is Jaws. She read the book but we said no to the movie. She asked me about it years later. The book she could put down when it became too graphic for her, the movie she would feel 'obligated' to sit through it.
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CarolinaKat
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Post by CarolinaKat on Oct 9, 2014 13:17:34 GMT -5
I've been thinking about this more, and there are books we try to hide because I don't like the messages. But once they've been given to her, they kind of take on a life of their own. Examples: Curious George - Slavery is great! The Rainbow Fish - Physically damage yourself to get friends! That's all I can think of right now, but man I hate those books. That and the christmas book my in-laws got her. That one the dogs ate. We were not sad. That one always creeped me out
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CarolinaKat
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Post by CarolinaKat on Oct 9, 2014 13:19:40 GMT -5
What would you say is the target age group for the Magic treehouse books? I would say 5-8 year olds. DD1 just turned 8 and she has no difficulty reading them. They are chapter books, though. My soon to be 6 year old has NO interest in reading at all. She can read, but says she can't. She's a stubborn one. I like to pick up the abridged versions of the classics for DD1 to read as well. She enjoyed Last of the Mohicans, Oliver Twist, and The Time Machine. I remember getting my first abridged version of a book. I was about 7. It was Dr. Jeckyll and Mr. Hyde. It was a gift from my mom's friend. I asked what "abriged" meant. My reaction was "Why would someone do that to a BOOK!?!?!?! I want the real thing!!!!!!' I got a non-abridged copy. ETA: I am fully aware I had a strange childhood and that reading the Don Quixote at 10yo is odd. This is why I need real people to tell me what children read because I like giving books to my nieces/nephews/cousins
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Oct 9, 2014 13:33:57 GMT -5
I've been thinking about this more, and there are books we try to hide because I don't like the messages. But once they've been given to her, they kind of take on a life of their own. Examples: Curious George - Slavery is great! The Rainbow Fish - Physically damage yourself to get friends! That's all I can think of right now, but man I hate those books. That and the christmas book my in-laws got her. That one the dogs ate. We were not sad. That one always creeped me out Now you guys have me all freaked out. They read that in ds preschool class last year and did a play of it. Ds played the part of rainbow fish and its literally what finally brought him out of his shell. Now I'm going to have to read that book and figure out what is so weird about it.
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Pants
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Post by Pants on Oct 9, 2014 13:39:39 GMT -5
That one always creeped me out Now you guys have me all freaked out. They read that in ds preschool class last year and did a play of it. Ds played the part of rainbow fish and its literally what brought him out of his shell (literally the last week or so). Now I'm going to have to read that book and figure out what is so weird about it. The fish ask Rainbow Fish for a LITERAL piece of himself and when he doesnt do what they want they shun him. They are only finally nice to him once they get what they want. It's pretty much a lesson in bowing to peer pressure. I mean, the flip side of that is that he's being selfish and other fish don't like selfish fish. Sharing is good, etc. I just think the way it is framed is super-creepy. I would be much less upset if he had like, algae balls or something that he refused to share and then nobody wanted to play with him. It bothers me that the lesson comes at the price of the main character's physical autonomy and right not to physically harm himself to please others. To me that is a bad lesson.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Oct 9, 2014 13:45:51 GMT -5
OK, I am not ignoring you guys but I am on my way out. In short - most of the "character" books are very poorly written. Books where stories don't have a flow or an idea. Books that have a chopped language. things like that. Oh and don't start me on all the superhero "books" It was super hard for me at first bc obviously I wasn't raised on American literature, so I did a LOT of research before I started bringing home books. I totally agree with you. But that's the only thing the littlest is willing to listen to. If a book goes over a two minutes, that's it. It's too long. If it's not interesting enough for her to look at, she wants no part of it. And, interestingly now that I think about it, it totally matches my kids' verbal skills. DS who always had the ability to sit and listen to books from quite a young age also had really good verbal skills. When he was three, we took him to an adult party. He walked up to one of my colleagues and said "So, what instrument do you play?" People often remarked that he didn't sound like a child when he spoke. My youngest, the one that won't tolerate the same books the other kids did definitely talks like a kid. She doesn't think/act/talk in a way that's wiser than her years. I'm not being snarky, here, but I get what I get. Sure I can shape my kids to some degree, but their preferences, strengths, etc are theirs. Given the choice between not reading to my child at and/or only offering things I know she won't like or reading things that I don't always like but she will listen to, I'll always pick the option that will keep me reading to her.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Oct 9, 2014 13:48:45 GMT -5
Now you guys have me all freaked out. They read that in ds preschool class last year and did a play of it. Ds played the part of rainbow fish and its literally what brought him out of his shell (literally the last week or so). Now I'm going to have to read that book and figure out what is so weird about it. The fish ask Rainbow Fish for a LITERAL piece of himself and when he doesnt do what they want they shun him. They are only finally nice to him once they get what they want. It's pretty much a lesson in bowing to peer pressure. I mean, the flip side of that is that he's being selfish and other fish don't like selfish fish. Sharing is good, etc. I just think the way it is framed is super-creepy. I would be much less upset if he had like, algae balls or something that he refused to share and then nobody wanted to play with him. It bothers me that the lesson comes at the price of the main character's physical autonomy and right not to physically harm himself to please others. To me that is a bad lesson. Gotcha. Since ds liked it so much I think we'll check it out from the library, read it at home and reiterate appropriate and inappropriate sharing.
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sam
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Post by sam on Oct 9, 2014 13:52:12 GMT -5
Drama: At what age are you going to give Gwen access to the internet? I understand she's still young, but there are many young kids these days that can navigate quite easily on computers. One wrong click can be quite graphic. By the time it's caught with the software, it's too late. Just wondering.
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vonna
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Post by vonna on Oct 9, 2014 13:54:37 GMT -5
I can't think of a time when I have told my kids they couldn't read something they wanted to. As others have said, the internet is far more scary. My oldest is 19 and on his own now when it comes to this area. My youngest is 9, and has only limited computer access.
My mom was a children's librarian, and I grew up in an environment that encouraged reading. Librarians (usually) are offended by censorship, so they don't usually promote it. My DH and I are prolific readers, and so far that trait has been passed to our 19 and 9 year old.
I figure if my child is interested in reading it, they can handle it. I am still aware of what my youngest checks out from the library, and what she buys at the bookstore (since I am with her!)
As she gets older and may be able to get reading material from friends, I hope she will talk with me if she comes across something she is not ready for.
I remember in middle school several of us passed around books by "anonymous" that were basically really terrible erotica. Not something I would suggest my children read, but I don't think trash like that ruins a person either. I learned a lot!
I think children can be "too sheltered" -- I just hope I am providing the right balance for mine.
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CarolinaKat
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Post by CarolinaKat on Oct 9, 2014 13:56:15 GMT -5
The fish ask Rainbow Fish for a LITERAL piece of himself and when he doesnt do what they want they shun him. They are only finally nice to him once they get what they want. It's pretty much a lesson in bowing to peer pressure. I mean, the flip side of that is that he's being selfish and other fish don't like selfish fish. Sharing is good, etc. I just think the way it is framed is super-creepy. I would be much less upset if he had like, algae balls or something that he refused to share and then nobody wanted to play with him. It bothers me that the lesson comes at the price of the main character's physical autonomy and right not to physically harm himself to please others. To me that is a bad lesson. Gotcha. Since ds liked it so much I think we'll check it out from the library, read it at home and reiterate appropriate and inappropriate sharing. What creeped me out about it is he was physically injuring himself to make others like him and to 'fit in.' Totally creepy message.... *resistance is futile... must assimilate* ETA; it's not like he was an assole about it in the beginning and needed to learn humility or anything. He was born that way and they were hating him for it. It's like the opposite of Rudolph-the-red-nosed-reindeer
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Oct 9, 2014 14:53:53 GMT -5
It's not supposed to be good literature, it's a kids book. 6-8 year olds aren't going to grasp good literature. I'm sure there's some weird ass little kid out there reading War and Peace and loving it, but most kids that age... no way in hell. Well, you really don't need to go to extremes either. There are sooooo many excellent books for 4-6-8 yr olds MTH books are just not it.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Oct 9, 2014 14:56:51 GMT -5
There are sooooo many excellent books for 4-6-8 yr olds
Which books fall into that category, do you think?
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Oct 9, 2014 15:05:33 GMT -5
Firebird, I am not familiar with the book you mentioned, so can't comment.
I want my kids to be able to distinguish between well written books and books that while might maintain your interest are just not great.
I made a very conscious effort from the early on to pick and choose what I read to them. They are not reading on their own yet, so I am not dealing with that yet.
My IL's go to library book sales and buy garbage books by the bag. And then I have to find a way to get rid of it all.
And btw, I don't usually shy away from a context of the book, even if it's something that might be considered "wrong", like slavery example BSB gave.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Oct 9, 2014 15:06:22 GMT -5
There are sooooo many excellent books for 4-6-8 yr olds
Which books fall into that category, do you think? Are you talking about the books they would read themselves or for read alouds? My kids don't read on their own yet, we just do read alouds
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Oct 9, 2014 15:08:03 GMT -5
Suess is the best. Not much else that comes close.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Oct 9, 2014 15:08:56 GMT -5
Are you talking about the books they would read themselves or for read alouds?
I'm talking about: What books do you think are "good" books for young kids?
And which books do you think are "bad"?
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Oct 9, 2014 15:16:13 GMT -5
Are you talking about the books they would read themselves or for read alouds?
I'm talking about: What books do you think are "good" books for young kids? And which books do you think are "bad"? I think Shel Silverstein -and Robert McCloskey are good I think Goofy's sledding contest is bad
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vonna
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Post by vonna on Oct 9, 2014 15:43:19 GMT -5
I've The Rainbow Fish - Physically damage yourself to get friends! I think books written as parables can often be damaging if taken literally, especially for kids. The message here is supposed to be a cautionary tale about vanity.
However, I admit I am a total book lover, and even if I disagree with the story, I think it can be a great opportunity for learning and discussion. Talking about why you don't like a story can be a great learning opportunity.
I think a better one that addressed the vanity message for that age group Tico and the Golden Wings. But, you may not like that one either!!
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Oct 9, 2014 15:43:56 GMT -5
I've been thinking about this more, and there are books we try to hide because I don't like the messages. But once they've been given to her, theyi kind of take on a life of their own. Examples: Curious George - Slavery is great! The Rainbow Fish - Physically damage yourself to get friends! That's all I can think of right now, but man I hate those books. That and the christmas book my in-laws got her. That one the dogs ate. We were not sad. Tinkerbell. She's a jealous little thing.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Oct 9, 2014 15:50:38 GMT -5
Drama: At what age are you going to give Gwen access to the internet? I understand she's still young, but there are many young kids these days that can navigate quite easily on computers. One wrong click can be quite graphic. By the time it's caught with the software, it's too late. Just wondering. We watch muppet you tube videos together right now and I let her play on word pad, that's as far as she has gotten with computer useage here. She's got ABC mouse on my mom's computer. Our computer is locked with a password so unless she figures out what it is she isn't getting on the computer without us for the time being and we plan on keeping it that way. If I need to I can also lock down the internet so only approved users with the password can get in.
When can she browse without us looking over her shoulder from time to time? Don't know. By the time she gets old enough to need to use the computer on a regular basis technology may have changed so much we have to regroup and start at square one.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Oct 9, 2014 15:56:57 GMT -5
I never thought about the self mutilation aspect of the Rainbow Fish. I just thought the fish was an ass
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The Home 6
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Post by The Home 6 on Oct 9, 2014 18:36:09 GMT -5
I remember getting my first abridged version of a book. I was about 7. It was Dr. Jeckyll and Mr. Hyde. It was a gift from my mom's friend. I asked what "abriged" meant. My reaction was "Why would someone do that to a BOOK!?!?!?! I want the real thing!!!!!!' I got a non-abridged copy. ETA: I am fully aware I had a strange childhood and that reading the Don Quixote at 10yo is odd. This is why I need real people to tell me what children read because I like giving books to my nieces/nephews/cousins What's really weird is that I threw a fit because BS let the kids watch the Disney-fied version of "Hunchback of Notre Dame". GAH!!! That's not how the story went!!!!
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teen persuasion
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Post by teen persuasion on Oct 9, 2014 20:29:31 GMT -5
Suess is the best. Not much else that comes close. I love Dr Seuss, but even some of his older and lesser known stories can be questionable. I do the preschool story hour, and one time my theme was moose. Turns out the only moose book in our collection was Thidwick the Big-hearted Moose. There is no way I was reading that book to preschoolers! Times change, and topics sometimes become non-PC. There are some books that I love, but I cannot bring myself to use them for storyhour. Some of the parents would not appreciate them. I love Beatrix Potter's books, but Squirrel Nutkin? A Fierce Bad Rabbit? Even Peter Rabbit gets switched by his uncle.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Oct 9, 2014 20:31:18 GMT -5
I'm convinced Seuss was on acid for some go those stories.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Oct 9, 2014 20:34:50 GMT -5
Suess is the best. Not much else that comes close. I love Dr Seuss, but even some of his older and lesser known stories can be questionable. I do the preschool story hour, and one time my theme was moose. Turns out the only moose book in our collection was Thidwick the Big-hearted Moose. Ok. Not sure why. But ok.
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teen persuasion
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Post by teen persuasion on Oct 9, 2014 20:42:10 GMT -5
I love Dr Seuss, but even some of his older and lesser known stories can be questionable. I do the preschool story hour, and one time my theme was moose. Turns out the only moose book in our collection was Thidwick the Big-hearted Moose. Ok. Not sure why. But ok. That book seriously disturbed ME. I'm having trouble remembering the whole plot, but a bunch of animals all decide to glomm onto the moose and force him to do what they want, all up in his antlers, I think. The story seemed to end with them all getting shot by a hunter, and the final picture was the moose head mounted on the wall (with all the rest in his antlers), all with Xs over their eyes. That's a cheery children's book.
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Apple
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Post by Apple on Oct 9, 2014 21:12:43 GMT -5
My son will be seventeen(?!) this month. When he was really little, I would limit what he was allowed to read, but only to a degree. He was a first grader reading novels (think "Lord of the Rings") so I would try to allow him to read books that would still challenge him, but didn't have a bunch of graphic sex and stuff, so he read a LOT of classics (oh, and "Fudge books", you can't go wrong with that and Ramona Quimby). I bought him a set of classics that had been rewritten for older kids while he was getting into stuff and I do remember something in Huckleberry Finn upset him enough that he didn't want the book in his bedroom (I LOVE Huckleberry Finn and have read it many times, but I kept it in my room until he was ok with it again). If you allow your children to read adult topics, you just need to be prepared to discuss things with them. I started reading Stephen King around age 12, and when he showed an interest around the same age, I never stopped him. He can read a stack of books in a weekend, so there is no way I could pre-read anything and keep up with him. He's started reading some really off the wall stuff, but if I see one that looks interesting I'll tell him not to return it to the library yet so that I can read it (I'm a slow reader, so he's just worried I'll return it late). He'll ask how I liked the book and so far they've been good, but very different from my normal reading choices. Movies I limited somewhat for a while (I got to watch Alien/Aliens/Dune/etc when I was really little, ticked mom off but dad never cared, I'd watch them with him.) But, he'd hang out with my BIL and end up watching some stuff because BIL didn't realize he was "too young", lol. When DS was 7, BIL babysat him a few hours. They disassembled/reassembled an AK47. Then they started to watch American Graffiti. Realized that might not be completely appropriate, so played Band of Brothers instead. My son loved it, but I had planned to wait a while for that one ETA: I may not the best to advise either though, I took him to see The Book of Mormon in Seattle. I have never seen something so extremely inappropriate, offensive, and insanely funny ever. And I found out today that he just lights up when he talks about getting to go. Yea, mom!?
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