My in-laws (VENT) - (UPDATE POST #43)

[muttleynfelix]

My husband's sister and their aunt are driving me insane.   (The Aunt and sister are about the same age BTW).  Every time I "talk" (email, facebook mostly) to them they are convinced that MIL has "given up on life" and she is "letting herself get old".  The Aunt is visiting next month and she emailed me this: 

I want her to stop acting old!! I see a lot of older people in the hospital and they embrace life. I have watched her give in.

MIL lives in the city that I work in. DH sees her regularly.  BIL #1 lives in the same city and sees her regularly.  BIL #2 lived with her until his death at the beginning of the month.  SIL lives across the country and the only reason she has seen her mother in the last year was because her brother died.  The Aunt lives 2 states away and we last saw her 2 years ago.  So, family who don't see her on a regular basis are saying "she's giving up", "she's acting old", "she has stopped embracing life".  

While I am concerned about my MIL - she hasn't been getting out much in recent years, I don't think she is participating in any groups, and she didn't want to travel for a while, my SIL's comments and AIL's comments just come across so over the top.  My MIL is 77. She is diabetic. She was not going to travel while her alcoholic son lived with her.  She has agreed to travel to my AIL's house (her sister) after the visit.  DH did take her with him when he took the kids to zoo earlier in the year and she isn't getting around real well (as in she had to stop and rest at every opportunity).  She was on medication last year that made her sick (and she didn't tell anyone).  I just feel like the "acting old" and "embracing life" comments are so over the top and the come from people who don't even see her on an even yearly basis.  

There is nothing to do about. I let DH handle most of his family. I'm just the point of contact because DH doesn't facebook and his family doesn't communicate dates real well. Since I was planning a trip, I wanted to make sure I was going to be here when AIL visited (well, make sure DD would be here since she is traveling with me).  There is just a disconnect between SIL, AIL and the rest of the family.  They like to share a lot of their everyday life and the rest of the family is very private.  BIL #2's death just brought a lot of the differences to the surface and now AIL and SIL are hovering over MIL because they are concerned she's not handling it well (she found BIL #2 and performed CPR until the paramedic's arrived).  DH and BIL #1 visit her regularly and while they are concerned (visit more often), they are getting very frustrated with SIL and AIL.  

[happyhoix]

Eh, how annoying.

What exactly does that mean, letting yourself get old? Your 77 year old MIL is grieving, as well as experiening some of the wonderful aches and pains you get when you live to be 77. I doubt she's really interested in mountain climbing or line dancing.

I hope your MIL is a strong enough lady she can tell these two to just back off.

[muttleynfelix]

Sroo - I would not be surprised that she says something different the her sister and daughter rather than her sons because you just communicate differently between women and men. (IMO).  What bothers me is that AIL and SIL are using the exact same "giving up" language. SIL actually used it a year ago when MIL refused to make a cross country trip on basically the spur of the moment.  SIL copied us on it and was pretty brutal in her assessment of MIL "giving up".  Well, MIL wasn't going to travel with BIL #2 living with her. Particularly at that point he did not have a steady job (although he was not drinking at that point, he had the unfortunate history of pawning MILs things when drinking to pay for booze). One of her medications was also giving her digestive problems (which no one knew about at the time).  I'm pretty sure SIL and AIL are basically clueless to the extent of how bad BIL #2 was at times in his life.  AIL on the phone to DH after BIL #2's death asked how long BIL #2 had been an alcoholic (20+ years)!   

HH - I think MIL is.  She buried her husband over 30 years ago and is pretty content alone.  But AIL and SIL can be brutal. Last time AIL visited, she nearly took MIL to the ER because she didn't feel MIL was managing her diabetes well enough (the dr was having a hard time getting all the medications to work together properly).   

Sometimes i think those 2 don't realize that MIL is pushing 80.  I think they want her to be just as active and healthy as they are when they are 20 years younger. 

[Shooby]

Ignore them.

[Shooby]

But, sometimes, people just get tired. They don't HAVE to run the race anymore. Maybe she just wants to sit at home and watch Judge Judy and have some peace and quiet and not have to run around trying to do things or prove her life to other people.

[Wisconsin Beth]

I agree with both of Shooby's posts - but want to add in that it's easier said than done.  And MIL may not have the skills or the desire to push back against them.  She might just want to be. 

[Sam_2.0]

My grandpa is going downhill. He's 82 and taken up smoking again and eats like crap. But he's 82 and has decided he can do whatever the hell he wants to, and he's right. Mom takes care of him as best as she can but her siblings are acting like your SIL and AIL and freaking out that my mom won't "make" him eat better and stop smoking.

[Phoenix84]

Well, being 77 means you're well into senior citizen territory, so I wouldn't get too up in arms over someone that age "acting old." This is especially true with people with chronic medical problems.

I don't have the figures off hand, but isn't 77 near the average life expectancy? Maybe even a bit past average life expectancy.

I can understand your in laws being concerned about her not getting out and worried about how she's handling her son's death, but I'm not sure I'd call it "acting old."  I think your in-laws might be worried about MIL's health and are having trouble coming to grips with the fact that she's old and honestly may not have a lot of time left.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

OK, let me give you another perspective....

My dad has pancreatic cancer and I live about as far away from him as I can and still be in the continental US.  Each time I talk to him, I have to make a judgement on a whole host of things by what he says and how he says it.  My sister does the exact same thing too.  Is he panting more than usual?  Is he in pain?  Is he eating well?  How are his spirits?  Does he sound down in the dumps?

I try to talk to his wife regularly, and I HOPE that she gives me an accurate picture of how he's doing.  But it's hard because she can't talk to us unrestrainedly with my dad there.  It's hard for us.....VERY hard.

When I was sick, I KNOW my emotions were all over the place and I didn't have a terminal diagnosis so I imagine that his are a log higher than I was.  He likely has higher highs and lower lows.  Your MIL also has a recent death she's dealing with, so this has to impact her as well.

My 0.02, for all it's worth is to give your SIL an ACCURATE picture of what you are seeing and try to update her regularly.  This way, she is not dependent upon what she is reading into her phone conversations.  I know this puts the onus on you, but if your DH doesn't do it then someone does.  And I would not do it on social media either.

We leave Friday for NY and one of the first phone calls that I'll need to make is to call my sister.  She is depending upon me to give a second opinion as to how our dad is doing and if I am seeing things that his wife has missed.  I know this, and know that she is anxious for this phone call....

JMHO

[tskeeter]

Went through a similar issue with my Mom's care.  Whatever Dad and other family members did wasn't good enough to satisfy my brother and SIL, who visited the folks once every five years or so.  I was really close to saying, if you don't like what you think is going on, you need to interrupt your life, get your azz out here, and take care of it the way you think it should be done.  Otherwise, it really isn't that important to you, so shut the heck up.

 

[lynnerself]

Sept 30, 2014 12:44:27 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

I don't have the figures off hand, but isn't 77 near the average life expectancy? Maybe even a bit past average life expectancy.

Actually "average" life expectancy is another 10+ years.

[zibazinski]

Right now, and I'm not nearly 77, just feel like it, I want to just fold up and be couch potato. Sometimes that's what people need to do. Some older people want to be active and some don't. Doesn't make either wrong. I find that family worries because they feel scared that loved one will die and they're not ready to handle it.

[muttleynfelix]

My 0.02, for all it's worth is to give your SIL an ACCURATE picture of what you are seeing and try to update her regularly. This way, she is not dependent upon what she is reading into her phone conversations. I know this puts the onus on you, but if your DH doesn't do it then someone does. And I would not do it on social media either.

That is a good idea if we could stand SIL right now.  (Sorry VENT here for moment): Her attitude and actions after BIL's death have been deplorable and it wasn't just grief.  It is the fact that in general she is very selfish and spoiled and frankly DH and I feel done with her. I don't understand how you don't mention the daughter of your brother who died when asking prayers for the family. I don't know how you just announce on Facebook that you need to shut down your dead brother's Facebook account without asking his daughter (who is 22, not a minor).  I don't know how you show up 4 days after the rest of the family has gone through his things and just start going through stuff without asking anyone anything - including throwing away documents and put items from your brother's wedding in a goodwill donation pile.  When the father of your niece and nephew is standing right next to you, why would you ask the children's grandma if the kids could do something?  If you are asking about your sister-in-law, don't you ask the brother who is married to her instead of your brother if they are both in the room at the same time?  She frankly either acts like my DH doesn't exist or that he is still 14.  (End VENT).

I will talk to do DH about what we need to do. Maybe just talk to AIL more. She obviously talks to SIL on a regular basis.  I don't see MIL that often, so I'm not the best person to try to bridge any gap between DH and his female relatives. DH usually goes while I am at work or on Sunday afternoons while DD is napping (and I stay home with the kids).  I am highly allergic to cats and she has 2, so I don't go over to see her that often.  

MIL has gone downhill quite a bit in the last 2 years.  I understand not being there and being concerned.  But SIL never asks DH how MIL is doing.  Never. She could call or email us anytime she wants.  But like I said, my SIL acts like my husband doesn't exist. 

What I mean by Facebook is Facebook messenger.  I keep things private (unlike my SIL). 

[muttleynfelix]

Thank you all for your thoughts and ideas. I do appreciate it.  Thanks Mich for your POV it was helpful for different POV. 

[cronewitch]

Can someone have her Skype with the others so they can see her more often?

[muttleynfelix]

Sept 30, 2014 13:21:52 GMT -5 cronewitch said:

Can someone have her Skype with the others so they can see her more often?

I like that idea. I'll talk to DH and MIL and see what she is up for.  We do Skype during holidays with my SIL (and BIL #2's DD, DN #1).  I think DN #1 wanted to Skype her more too. 

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

I will talk to do DH about what we need to do. Maybe just talk to AIL more. She obviously talks to SIL on a regular basis. I don't see MIL that often, so I'm not the best person to try to bridge any gap between DH and his female relatives. DH usually goes while I am at work or on Sunday afternoons while DD is napping (and I stay home with the kids).


Then maybe after your DH goes to see his mother, he should call his aunt and give her an update on his mom's heath and state of mind.  He needs to be proactive, as his aunt does not know when your DH goes to see his mom and I'm sure you don't want her calling you bugging you.  Not knowing is the worst and you will tend to jump to the worst possible conclusion.  Leave it to aunt to inform SIL and she gets the information and if your aunt gets the info out of the horses mouth (your DH) she can tamp down the panic from your SIL.

[Peace Of Mind]

So, family who don't see her on a regular basis are saying "she's giving up", "she's acting old", "she has stopped embracing life".

She's 77.  She is old! 

I have a SIL who loves to tell people how they should live their lives.  She was single at the time and got mad at those of us who enjoy being with our spouses/SO or not always going going going.  Now that she finally found a guy who likes her (she's the least likable and least attractive out of them) she is now enjoying hanging out at home more and chilling out.  She is now happy!

Perspective.  We should all have it. 

I let DH handle most of his family.

You are a very wise woman! 

[Phoenix84]

Sept 30, 2014 13:02:26 GMT -5 lynnerself said:

Sept 30, 2014 12:44:27 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

I don't have the figures off hand, but isn't 77 near the average life expectancy? Maybe even a bit past average life expectancy.

Actually "average" life expectancy is another 10+ years.

I finally looked it up.

Life expectancy in the U.S in 2011 was 78.7 years. The average life expectancy for men is 76 and for women it's 81.

So this woman is 4 years away from average life expectancy, I think it's safe to say she is old.

[lynnerself]

Sept 30, 2014 17:32:32 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

Sept 30, 2014 13:02:26 GMT -5 lynnerself said:

Actually "average" life expectancy is another 10+ years.

I finally looked it up.

Life expectancy in the U.S in 2011 was 78.7 years. The average life expectancy for men is 76 and for women it's 81.

So this woman is 4 years away from average life expectancy, I think it's safe to say she is old.

I should have said her estimated life expectancy.

You have to look up the life expectancy for a women who has already reached 77 years of age. The longer you live, the longer your life expectancy is because you already made it this far.

So from the SS calculator
www.socialsecurity.gov/oact/population/longevity.html
A women 77 years and 3 months (for example) has a life expectancy of 89.2 or 11.9 more years.

Of course there is the stated disclaimer:

The estimates of additional life expectancy do not take into account a wide number of factors such as current health, lifestyle, and family history that could increase or decrease life expectancy.



 

[Bonny]

Sept 30, 2014 12:56:01 GMT -5 tskeeter said:

Went through a similar issue with my Mom's care.  Whatever Dad and other family members did wasn't good enough to satisfy my brother and SIL, who visited the folks once every five years or so.  I was really close to saying, if you don't like what you think is going on, you need to interrupt your life, get your azz out here, and take care of it the way you think it should be done.  Otherwise, it really isn't that important to you, so shut the heck up.

 

That was my MIL with regards to her sister spending 20 years (!) over seeing their father's care. He lived until 102.

Now MIL is approaching 80 and expects everyone to drop everything and wait on her hand and foot. She's had one (non emergency) surgery a week ago. Her sister who traveled from FL to OR has taken care of her house et all for the last 10 days. DH agreed to help her for the following week and is driving up to OR tomorrow. Today she calls DH and states she's getting another (non-emergency) surgery two days after he planned on leaving. She got mean and nasty when DH explained that he already advised her of when he was available. He's going to stay two extra days but she is livid that she has to make other plans to use other people.

It's such a frustrating situation. She has great LTC coverage that take care of home care. But people from the caregiving service have quit or she's fired them because "they are too lazy" or they "steal" from her. The only person we know of who tried to steal from her was someone she hired directly...and she knew was an illegal alien. She still uses the thief's sister for house cleaning knowing full well she's illegal too.

[muttleynfelix]

Sept 30, 2014 17:53:37 GMT -5 lynnerself said:

Sept 30, 2014 17:32:32 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

I finally looked it up.

Life expectancy in the U.S in 2011 was 78.7 years. The average life expectancy for men is 76 and for women it's 81.

So this woman is 4 years away from average life expectancy, I think it's safe to say she is old.

I should have said her estimated life expectancy.

You have to look up the life expectancy for a women who has already reached 77 years of age. The longer you live, the longer your life expectancy is because you already made it this far.

So from the SS calculator
www.socialsecurity.gov/oact/population/longevity.html
A women 77 years and 3 months (for example) has a life expectancy of 89.2 or 11.9 more years.

Of course there is the stated disclaimer:

The estimates of additional life expectancy do not take into account a wide number of factors such as current health, lifestyle, and family history that could increase or decrease life expectancy.



 

I think it is safe to say with her health issues, it is probably more like 4 years instead of 12 years.  JMO.  How many type II diabetics who have had trouble controlling their blood sugar the last 4 years live to their late 80s? 

[happyhoix]

Whatever Dad and other family members did wasn't good enough to satisfy my brother and SIL, who visited the folks once every five years or so.

Little sister is pulling this, too. I figure my older sister, who is the primary care giver for our mom, gets to make the decisions on what kind of care my mom gets, but LS, who visits 2x per year for a couple days, wants to be a backseat driver and dictate what kind of care mom needs.

Everyone in my family has a sweet tooth - Little sister is about the worst for this (on a recent visit, little sister told her teenage daughter they would skip dinner that night and just have ice cream instead). Yet little sister has decided all sweets are bad for our mom, and keeps telling older sister and I to make sure mom doesn't ever get any.

I figure Mom is 85 years old with dementia, stuck in a wheelchair, can't get on and off the toilet by herself, can't bathe herself, can't remember the names of her kids or grandkids, can't do all the things she used to love to do (crossword puzzles and jigsaw puzzles, for instance) so what if I take her to lunch and then I swing by baskin robins and get her one of those small sundays in a cup? Why deprive the poor woman of the one thing she still can enjoy? If eating ice cream means she dies at 85 1/2 instead of 85 3/4, what does that matter, when her quality of life is so poor?

I figure when it comes down to the point mom is in a hospital at the end of her life, little sister will be the one insisting every possible medical procedure must be done to prolong her life - even though mom has such a limited life right now, and even though little sister does next to nothing to help take care of her. Fortunately older sister how power of attorney for medical decisions and mom has a living will, so regardless of how little sister behaves, we should be able to ignore her. Of course, it will give little sister another great reason to have a melt down and sulk, but we're kind of used to that by now.

[mollyanna58]

Oct 1, 2014 9:48:04 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

I figure Mom is 85 years old with dementia, stuck in a wheelchair, can't get on and off the toilet by herself, can't bathe herself, can't remember the names of her kids or grandkids, can't do all the things she used to love to do (crossword puzzles and jigsaw puzzles, for instance) so what if I take her to lunch and then I swing by baskin robins and get her one of those small sundays in a cup? Why deprive the poor woman of the one thing she still can enjoy? If eating ice cream means she dies at 85 1/2 instead of 85 3/4, what does that matter, when her quality of life is so poor? 

FWIW, I agree with this attitude.  My father eats a lot of sweets.  My mother constantly complains about his eating habits.  However, he's 89 and I figure he should eat what he wants. 

[Bonny]

Oct 1, 2014 11:16:03 GMT -5 mollyanna58 said:

Oct 1, 2014 9:48:04 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

I figure Mom is 85 years old with dementia, stuck in a wheelchair, can't get on and off the toilet by herself, can't bathe herself, can't remember the names of her kids or grandkids, can't do all the things she used to love to do (crossword puzzles and jigsaw puzzles, for instance) so what if I take her to lunch and then I swing by baskin robins and get her one of those small sundays in a cup? Why deprive the poor woman of the one thing she still can enjoy? If eating ice cream means she dies at 85 1/2 instead of 85 3/4, what does that matter, when her quality of life is so poor? 

FWIW, I agree with this attitude.  My father eats a lot of sweets.  My mother constantly complains about his eating habits.  However, he's 89 and I figure he should eat what he wants. 

DH's grandfather's favorite breakfast was pie. He lived to 102 and was in great shape up until 100. Works for me!

[mollyanna58]

Apple pie is a great way to start the day! 

[tskeeter]

Oct 1, 2014 11:37:26 GMT -5 Bonny said:

Oct 1, 2014 11:16:03 GMT -5 mollyanna58 said:

FWIW, I agree with this attitude.  My father eats a lot of sweets.  My mother constantly complains about his eating habits.  However, he's 89 and I figure he should eat what he wants. 

DH's grandfather's favorite breakfast was pie. He lived to 102 and was in great shape up until 100. Works for me!

So, he ate fruit and grains for breakfast.  I don't see a problem here.  (Note: lard and sugar are not food groups that appear on the Tskeeter food pyramid, so they don't count.)

[Bonny]

Oct 2, 2014 12:08:36 GMT -5 tskeeter said:

Oct 1, 2014 11:37:26 GMT -5 Bonny said:

DH's grandfather's favorite breakfast was pie. He lived to 102 and was in great shape up until 100. Works for me!

So, he ate fruit and grains for breakfast.  I don't see a problem here.  (Note: lard and sugar are not food groups that appear on the Tskeeter food pyramid, so they don't count.)

And wine is a serving of fruit!

My cocktail napkins tell me so!

[Wisconsin Beth]

My Mom is watching Dad's intake fairly closely, mainly by not buying anything she doesn't want him eating.    But he's bought in on it too.  He's not ready to kick the bucket yet.  They do the grocery shopping together so if he wants something, he tosses it in the cart.  Dad's 76 now, Mom is 72. 

[raeoflyte]

I've posted this before, but my 97 year old grandmother goes through 9-12 pounds of m&m's a month--she shares, and I don't police my kids on how much they eat of them when we are there--but STILL that is a ton of m&m's.  She also gets strawberry ice cream for dessert after lunch AND dinner 7 days a week.  At 97 she's earned it.