Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 15, 2014 19:05:58 GMT -5
Crap. I hate it when that happens. I don't like the DA or agree with him about the rest of it. But I don't think what this kid did is okay and he did break a law. A law which will probably be struck down if they try to enforce it in this case. Just like this little gem, Someone in their twenties was arrested and convicted(?) under that law around 2010. But in that case, the idiot was caught urinating on a nativity scene. That I can understan-convicting him damaging and defacing the nativity scene. Link to the urinating reference: 14-year-old boy charged after mimicking sex act with a Jesus statue and sharing the photos on Facebook
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2014 19:16:38 GMT -5
You can't put them in schools and government buildings because there's a separation of church and state, it has nothing to do with them being sacred. Private schools can plaster Jesus on everything. Literally every single wall, window, and object in the place. Individuals can do the same to their homes and businesses. The state can't do it because they'd inherently have to favor one religion in doing so. The reverse is also true, I can cover my home or business in Jesus is a lie propaganda. I could do the same in a private school. The state can't, again not because the slogans are sacred, but because the state is supposed to stay the hell out of religious matters. The act of recognising the need to separate church and state is the recognition that religion and objects depicting that religion are unique. You don't have laws separating gorillas and state or clown heads and the state. Probably because most people are smart enough to figure that one out on their own. Unfortunately many people can't figure out that Church and State don't belong together without it being codified into law. (for the record, that was NOT meaning anyone here can't figure it out... but there are many out there, and everyone here knows at least one or two... I guarantee it!)
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Sept 15, 2014 19:44:19 GMT -5
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 15, 2014 19:50:39 GMT -5
I read that earlier today. I bet he isn't Tweeting that tidbit to conservative talk shows.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Sept 15, 2014 20:12:40 GMT -5
Another Christian activist politician that can't keep it in his pants... what would Jesus say? "I am glad that the kid kept his in his"?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 15, 2014 21:10:35 GMT -5
i would get bounced out of church in 15 seconds for swearing. two ushers would escort me out. i would be warned about swearing in the parish, and then, if i did it again, the ushers would greet me at the door. if i caused trouble, they would call the police. if i caused trouble with the police, i would be arrested. my congregation has the right to a private service that is not offensive to them. they can exercise that right. With the force of law....that's kinda what I said that you disagreed with in the first place. i am sure i am not contradicting myself. if we were talking about the Jesus statue, that is a public object, and it was a private matter (before he posted it on FB). what i just referred to was the disruption of a private affair that had immediate impact on non-consenting others. i think they are quite different. i am sure you don't.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2014 21:21:26 GMT -5
With the force of law....that's kinda what I said that you disagreed with in the first place. i am sure i am not contradicting myself. if we were talking about the Jesus statue, that is a public object, and it was a private matter (before he posted it on FB). what i just referred to was the disruption of a private affair that had immediate impact on non-consenting others. i think they are quite different. i am sure you don't. No, this particular strain of the conversation is from when I said "Making something criminal is the only way we as a society have of saying something is unacceptable" But since you brought it up, what the kid did had an impact on non-consenting others. And the Jesus statue is not a public object. Just because the public can see it does not make it public property.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 15, 2014 21:30:03 GMT -5
i am sure i am not contradicting myself. if we were talking about the Jesus statue, that is a public object, and it was a private matter (before he posted it on FB). what i just referred to was the disruption of a private affair that had immediate impact on non-consenting others. i think they are quite different. i am sure you don't. No, this particular strain of the conversation is from when I said "Making something criminal is the only way we as a society have of saying something is unacceptable" i disagree that it is the ONLY way. i agree that it is A way.But since you brought it up, what the kid did had an impact on non-consenting others. And the Jesus statue is not a public object. Just because the public can see it does not make it public property. i said immediate. let me illustrate why. i posted a video earlier. if i had not posted it, would ever have seen it? maybe not. probably not. yet, it was pretty offensive to you, right? that kid posted something on his private FB page. and sure, you have access to it. but let's face it, it is far LESS public than the YouTube page with 114M hits. so, here is my point- there is a world of things for you to get offended by. there is a world of stuff that we could apply "the law" to. but really, in the end, are we any better for it? and does it save you, and others, any offense? i am thinking: no.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Sept 15, 2014 21:36:51 GMT -5
Another Christian activist politician that can't keep it in his pants... what would Jesus say? Dude, stop,tea bagging me.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2014 21:38:38 GMT -5
I think that if we emphasise respect for others we are better for it. And you can't have that if you are selective about who gets the respect. Otherwise don't bother with any laws at all.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2014 21:42:08 GMT -5
If anything these things always backfire.
Someone could have ignored the little weasel.
But no, no, let's give him airtime, plaster that picture everywhere and wait for them to start printing tshirt and bumper stickers about t-bagging Jesus...
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 15, 2014 21:45:24 GMT -5
I think that if we emphasise respect for others we are better for it. And you can't have that if you are selective about who gets the respect. Otherwise don't bother with any laws at all. laws won't teach respect, only obedience. are you familiar with "A ClockWork Orange"?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 15, 2014 21:47:01 GMT -5
If anything these things always backfire. Someone could have ignored the little weasel. But no, no, let's give him airtime, plaster that picture everywhere and wait for them to start printing tshirt and bumper stickers about t-bagging Jesus... the church is going to lose this one. and that will start a culture war, or add to an existing one. it doesn't make the little bastard right. he really isn't.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Sept 15, 2014 21:50:17 GMT -5
I think that if we emphasise respect for others we are better for it. And you can't have that if you are selective about who gets the respect. Otherwise don't bother with any laws at all. Agree completely. The only question is who is going to teach the kids respect? Just look at this thread. Immaturity and disrespect abound. Why would we expect our children to behave any better? I've seen it written that children live what they learn. I guess that's true.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2014 21:55:32 GMT -5
If anything these things always backfire. Someone could have ignored the little weasel. But no, no, let's give him airtime, plaster that picture everywhere and wait for them to start printing tshirt and bumper stickers about t-bagging Jesus... Good point! I think everyone getting their knickers in a twist over this is more what creates the problem than this guy actually doing it. How many MORE people that could be offended by it have seen it that otherwise wouldn't have seen it just because of the publicity the outrage over it gave it?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 15, 2014 21:56:39 GMT -5
I think that if we emphasise respect for others we are better for it. And you can't have that if you are selective about who gets the respect. Otherwise don't bother with any laws at all. Agree completely. The only question is who is going to teach the kids respect? Just look at this thread. Immaturity and disrespect abound. Why would we expect our children to behave any better? I've seen it written that children live what they learn. I guess that's true. i hope i have not shown any disrespect. seriously. i am mostly curious about later. i want to understand her perspective. and i already said that if she was personally offended by this and honestly felt that this kid had her and other Christians in her site, she had every right to be offended. but i am nearly certain that was not the case- that he did NOT intend to offend Christians- or at least that was not his "intended goal".
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2014 21:57:19 GMT -5
If anything these things always backfire. Someone could have ignored the little weasel. But no, no, let's give him airtime, plaster that picture everywhere and wait for them to start printing tshirt and bumper stickers about t-bagging Jesus... the church is going to lose this one. and that will start a culture war, or add to an existing one. it doesn't make the little bastard right. he really isn't. Exactly. We can't argue over if we think his actions are wrong or right, because the goalpost is moved to whether or not he HAS the right... So we all get to appear to be pro- the act. When we are really just pro the right. Take away the idea that this might be criminal, and we can go back to discussing its appropriateness. But focus on the right to be a douchbag, and sorry, the right to be a douchbag wins every time..
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Sept 15, 2014 21:59:49 GMT -5
Agree completely. The only question is who is going to teach the kids respect? Just look at this thread. Immaturity and disrespect abound. Why would we expect our children to behave any better? I've seen it written that children live what they learn. I guess that's true. i hope i have not shown any disrespect. seriously. i am mostly curious about later. i want to understand her perspective. and i already said that if she was personally offended by this and honestly felt that this kid had her and other Christians in her site, she had every right to be offended. but i am nearly certain that was not the case- that he did NOT intend to offend Christians- or at least that was not his "intended goal". Not that I have seen and I agree with you. I doubt he even thought of this fall-out. I doubt he did much thinking at all. I don't think his intention was to offend Christians - although it's certainly offensive to me. I just think he was trying to be "cool".
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2014 22:02:54 GMT -5
I think that if we emphasise respect for others we are better for it. And you can't have that if you are selective about who gets the respect. Otherwise don't bother with any laws at all. Agree completely. The only question is who is going to teach the kids respect? Just look at this thread. Immaturity and disrespect abound. Why would we expect our children to behave any better? I've seen it written that children live what they learn. I guess that's true. I agree with the bolded. (bet we disagree on who is posting what though... )
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2014 22:05:27 GMT -5
the church is going to lose this one. and that will start a culture war, or add to an existing one. it doesn't make the little bastard right. he really isn't. Exactly. We can't argue over if we think his actions are wrong or right, because the goalpost is moved to whether or not he HAS the right... So we all get to appear to be pro- the act. When we are really just pro the right. Take away the idea that this might be criminal, and we can go back to discussing its appropriateness. But focus on the right to be a douchbag, and sorry, the right to be a douchbag wins every time.. Exactly. I may not like the douchebagerry of any particular person (even believers that are douchebags, and yes, there are some that are)... but every American has the right to be one. I'll defend that right to the death.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Sept 15, 2014 22:06:40 GMT -5
i hope i have not shown any disrespect. seriously. i am mostly curious about later. i want to understand her perspective. and i already said that if she was personally offended by this and honestly felt that this kid had her and other Christians in her site, she had every right to be offended. but i am nearly certain that was not the case- that he did NOT intend to offend Christians- or at least that was not his "intended goal". Not that I have seen and I agree with you. I doubt he even thought of this fall-out. I doubt he did much thinking at all. I don't think his intention was to offend Christians - although it's certainly offensive to me. I just think he was trying to be "cool". It's offensive to me, too, GEL, and I'm not a Christian. As I said, had he been my kid he'd be a slave to that church for the next six months - because I know he was doing it just to be an arse for his "friends"! That's plain stupid and deserving of punishment, IMO.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 15, 2014 22:06:50 GMT -5
i hope i have not shown any disrespect. seriously. i am mostly curious about later. i want to understand her perspective. and i already said that if she was personally offended by this and honestly felt that this kid had her and other Christians in her site, she had every right to be offended. but i am nearly certain that was not the case- that he did NOT intend to offend Christians- or at least that was not his "intended goal". Not that I have seen and I agree with you. I doubt he even thought of this fall-out. I doubt he did much thinking at all. I don't think his intention was to offend Christians - although it's certainly offensive to me. I just think he was trying to be "cool". yeah, GEL. we seem to have accord fairly often. thanks for your reply. as usual.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Sept 15, 2014 22:07:22 GMT -5
Agree completely. The only question is who is going to teach the kids respect? Just look at this thread. Immaturity and disrespect abound. Why would we expect our children to behave any better? I've seen it written that children live what they learn. I guess that's true. I agree with the bolded. (bet we disagree on who is posting what though... lol...that's quite possible
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Sept 15, 2014 22:08:54 GMT -5
Not that I have seen and I agree with you. I doubt he even thought of this fall-out. I doubt he did much thinking at all. I don't think his intention was to offend Christians - although it's certainly offensive to me. I just think he was trying to be "cool". It's offensive to me, too, GEL, and I'm not a Christian. As I said, had he been my kid he'd be a slave to that church for the next six months - because I know he was doing it just to be an arse for his "friends"! That's plain stupid and deserving of punishment, IMO. Agreed...if I'd done something like that....well....I'd be dead so I wouldn't have to worry what my punishment would be!
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 15, 2014 22:09:34 GMT -5
the church is going to lose this one. and that will start a culture war, or add to an existing one. it doesn't make the little bastard right. he really isn't. Exactly. We can't argue over if we think his actions are wrong or right, because the goalpost is moved to whether or not he HAS the right... So we all get to appear to be pro- the act. When we are really just pro the right. Take away the idea that this might be criminal, and we can go back to discussing its appropriateness. But focus on the right to be a douchbag, and sorry, the right to be a douchbag wins every time.. oped, have you ever been told you have a gift for words. this is both concise and 100% accurate. you win my post of the week award!
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 15, 2014 22:11:50 GMT -5
It's offensive to me, too, GEL, and I'm not a Christian. As I said, had he been my kid he'd be a slave to that church for the next six months - because I know he was doing it just to be an arse for his "friends"! That's plain stupid and deserving of punishment, IMO. Agreed...if I'd done something like that....well....I'd be dead so I wouldn't have to worry what my punishment would be! Wouldn't you being dead be your punishment?
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Sept 15, 2014 22:12:36 GMT -5
Wow. Even after reading all of these pages I still come back to, "Someone should just kick the sh** out of him for being an idiot."
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Sept 15, 2014 22:14:18 GMT -5
Agreed...if I'd done something like that....well....I'd be dead so I wouldn't have to worry what my punishment would be! Wouldn't you being dead be your punishment? Good point.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 15, 2014 22:14:32 GMT -5
Exactly. We can't argue over if we think his actions are wrong or right, because the goalpost is moved to whether or not he HAS the right... So we all get to appear to be pro- the act. When we are really just pro the right. Take away the idea that this might be criminal, and we can go back to discussing its appropriateness. But focus on the right to be a douchbag, and sorry, the right to be a douchbag wins every time.. Exactly. I may not like the douchebagerry of any particular person (even believers that are douchebags, and yes, there are some that are)... but every American has the right to be one. I'll defend that right to the death. you are a good man, Richard, with very high principles. you really "get" this issue, imo.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 15, 2014 22:22:42 GMT -5
this is one of those troll-free discussions that i live for on this board. i wish it happened more often, but it is so great when it does, it is worth the effort for me. koombayaaaaaaah my lord...........
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