zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 15, 2014 17:47:03 GMT -5
Not only that but good luck with getting jobs and into a good college. fortunately, juvi records are generally sealed. if he gets his act together, he should be ok. It's all over the place. Try hiding that.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 15, 2014 17:47:28 GMT -5
I'd hire him if he was qualified. Kids are dumb.He will grow up . I'm guessing with this generations access & use of social media it will be hard to find someone who didn't do something stupid & post about it. He could also use it as an example of learning how actions affect others, blah, blah, blah on a college essay. he can write his PhD on the social dynamics of online peer interaction.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 15, 2014 17:48:05 GMT -5
fortunately, juvi records are generally sealed. if he gets his act together, he should be ok. It's all over the place. Try hiding that. the picture? sure. but like i said, if ONE of us can count ourselves as never doing something dumb as a kid......
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 15, 2014 17:49:21 GMT -5
Yup, but we didnt get caught. I'd be up a creek if we had FB when I was young and crazy. Hell, I'm old and still crazy.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 15, 2014 17:52:14 GMT -5
Yup, but we didnt get caught. I'd be up a creek if we had FB when I was young and crazy. Hell, I'm old and still crazy. ok, i am SPECULATING here, ok....but here is what i say..... BECAUSE it will be so commonplace to have pictures taken of you asleep in a puddle of vomit, or passed out with your pants down, or sticking your tongue up the nostril of a Jesus statue, it is not going to count for much in the future. what will count is your actions of record, your work history, and what your employers, teachers, and peers say about you. unless, of course, you are running for public office.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 15, 2014 17:55:09 GMT -5
Yes and no. DS had to give COKE access to his FB page before he was hired. DD had to do this as well and this is for a lousy EMT job. Smart kids already know this and have two pages. One for public and one for private.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 15, 2014 17:56:55 GMT -5
Yes and no. DS had to give COKE access to his FB page before he was hired. DD had to do this as well and this is for a lousy EMT job. Smart kids already know this and have two pages. One for public and one for private. god. i am so glad i am my own boss. (actually, that is not entirely true. i am below the CEO in one organization. he is a musician in a Alt Christian Rock band, and i have found him to be pretty tolerant of me. besides. i am the old guy in that organization)
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steff
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Post by steff on Sept 15, 2014 17:58:14 GMT -5
later- my question revolves around the proximate target of upset in the case of harassment. in the legal sense, there is a victim, and a perp. the perp in this case is the kid. the victim is...who? i am not being a smartass- i just don't think the kid was thinking about Christians when he did this. he was not trying to make a political or religious statement. if there was a statue with a gorilla he would have done exactly the same thing. he thinks that posing on a statue is funny. and sure, he probably recognized that some people would be offended by it. but harassment presumes that the GOAL of the behavior is to disturb or upset: that was it's intention. in this case, i think the intention was to be funny and irreverent- not to "harass" Christians. agree or disagree? I don't agree. But that would be a finding of fact or whatever the wording is. I very much believe he thought it was funny to desecrate the statue exactly because it would harass people of that faith. Unless you are a mind reader, how would you KNOW what he thought in that moment? You can't assume to know because the reality is ONLY he knows what his intent was in that moment.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 15, 2014 17:58:29 GMT -5
Yup. Employers and even colleges look for FB pages. Other organizations look as well.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 15, 2014 18:00:12 GMT -5
I don't agree. But that would be a finding of fact or whatever the wording is. I very much believe he thought it was funny to desecrate the statue exactly because it would harass people of that faith. Unless you are a mind reader, how would you KNOW what he thought in that moment? You can't assume to know because the reality is ONLY he knows what his intent was in that moment. that is precisely right. it is between him and God. but what we DO know is this: what other kids (we were all kids once, so we presumably know the mind of at least ONE kid) would be thinking in similar situations. universalizability becomes a lot easier when you are older, and more experienced.
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ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Sept 15, 2014 18:00:23 GMT -5
He did something that he (and probably his friends) thought was funny, but also probably knew it was offensive - juvenile behavior for sure - and even dumber to post it on social media where once you hit send, it's there for the world and can't be erased.
I don't think it's harassment of people of the faith - but certainly offensive to some.
Exactly. Some other dumb teenager (or adult) will post something equally as tasteless on the internet within days, and this kid's stunt will be a distant memory - and people will be talking and commenting on the new dumb that's circulating.
This kid will go on and by the time he's out of college and entering the workforce, hopefully he'll have matured.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 15, 2014 18:00:48 GMT -5
Yup. Employers and even colleges look for FB pages. Other organizations look as well. dayum. well, 15 years to retirement. then f(*k everyone.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2014 18:01:03 GMT -5
Christians that burn Korans should. It's the same crime. If sacred objects mean nothing than we should be allowed to display them everywhere. But we aren't. Because it is understood that they are unique. You don't get to have it both ways. If they are significant enough to be kept out of schools and government buildings they are significant enough for the desecration laws. They are already legally recognised as unique objects. You can't put them in schools and government buildings because there's a separation of church and state, it has nothing to do with them being sacred. Private schools can plaster Jesus on everything. Literally every single wall, window, and object in the place. Individuals can do the same to their homes and businesses. The state can't do it because they'd inherently have to favor one religion in doing so. The reverse is also true, I can cover my home or business in Jesus is a lie propaganda. I could do the same in a private school. The state can't, again not because the slogans are sacred, but because the state is supposed to stay the hell out of religious matters. The act of recognising the need to separate church and state is the recognition that religion and objects depicting that religion are unique. You don't have laws separating gorillas and state or clown heads and the state.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 15, 2014 18:02:27 GMT -5
He did something that he (and probably his friends) thought was funny, but also probably knew it was offensive - juvenile behavior for sure - and even dumber to post it on social media where once you hit send, it's there for the world and can't be erased.
I don't think it's harassment of people of the faith - but certainly offensive to some.Exactly. Some other dumb teenager (or adult) will post something equally as tasteless on the internet within days, and this kid's stunt will be a distant memory - and people will be talking and commenting on the new dumb that's circulating.
This kid will go on and by the time he's out of college and entering the workforce, hopefully he'll have matured. nary a week goes by that Paul does not post a picture of some wannabe gangster. some of those folks (most?) will grow up and lead respectable lives. would they THEN like those pictures back? i bet they will.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2014 18:02:46 GMT -5
I don't agree. But that would be a finding of fact or whatever the wording is. I very much believe he thought it was funny to desecrate the statue exactly because it would harass people of that faith. Unless you are a mind reader, how would you KNOW what he thought in that moment? You can't assume to know because the reality is ONLY he knows what his intent was in that moment. I know it the same way that everyone else knows he didn't mean to offend. I'm the one that said that would be a finding of fact for the judge or jury.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 15, 2014 18:04:41 GMT -5
You can't put them in schools and government buildings because there's a separation of church and state, it has nothing to do with them being sacred. Private schools can plaster Jesus on everything. Literally every single wall, window, and object in the place. Individuals can do the same to their homes and businesses. The state can't do it because they'd inherently have to favor one religion in doing so. The reverse is also true, I can cover my home or business in Jesus is a lie propaganda. I could do the same in a private school. The state can't, again not because the slogans are sacred, but because the state is supposed to stay the hell out of religious matters. The act of recognising the need to separate church and state is the recognition that religion and objects depicting that religion are unique. You don't have laws separating gorillas and state or clown heads and the state. i'll side with later on this. it is because the objects ARE religious (aka sacred) that they are not permissible for posting publicly.
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 15, 2014 18:05:19 GMT -5
Yup. Employers and even colleges look for FB pages. Other organizations look as well. dayum. well, 15 years to retirement. then f(*k everyone. He first thing I thought of when I retired was no more permanent record. Between school and work there was always a paper trail.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 15, 2014 18:05:48 GMT -5
Unless you are a mind reader, how would you KNOW what he thought in that moment? You can't assume to know because the reality is ONLY he knows what his intent was in that moment. I know it the same way that everyone else knows he didn't mean to offend. i know it from my own personal experience. is that what YOU are relying on? I'm the one that said that would be a finding of fact for the judge or jury. indeed, it would. but you and i both know this will never reach trial.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2014 18:06:24 GMT -5
Making something criminal is the only way we as a society have of saying something is unacceptable. LOL! you really believe that? try cussing in a church sometime. Those days are long over dj. As has been repeatedly said, be as offensive as you want. No one can do anything about it.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 15, 2014 18:06:38 GMT -5
dayum. well, 15 years to retirement. then f(*k everyone. He first thing I thought of when I retired was no more permanent record. Between school and work there was always a paper trail. oh, i know it is there. i just won't give a damn about it. now? it could hurt business, if it was the right sort of nutter that got ahold of it.
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steff
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Post by steff on Sept 15, 2014 18:06:40 GMT -5
I have a houseful of teen-aged boys almost every weekend. put 2 or more together and they are crude. The more of them that are together, the more crude & clueless they get. they'll pretend to hump a doorknob if their friends will crack up at it.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 15, 2014 18:08:31 GMT -5
LOL! you really believe that? try cussing in a church sometime. Those days are long over dj. As has been repeatedly said, be as offensive as you want. No one can do anything about it. i would get bounced out of church in 15 seconds for swearing. two ushers would escort me out. i would be warned about swearing in the parish, and then, if i did it again, the ushers would greet me at the door. if i caused trouble, they would call the police. if i caused trouble with the police, i would be arrested. my congregation has the right to a private service that is not offensive to them. they can exercise that right.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2014 18:11:12 GMT -5
Those days are long over dj. As has been repeatedly said, be as offensive as you want. No one can do anything about it. i would get bounced out of church in 15 seconds for swearing. two ushers would escort me out. i would be warned about swearing in the parish, and then, if i did it again, the ushers would greet me at the door. if i caused trouble, they would call the police. if i caused trouble with the police, i would be arrested. my congregation has the right to a private service that is not offensive to them. they can exercise that right. With the force of law....that's kinda what I said that you disagreed with in the first place.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2014 18:14:43 GMT -5
I know it the same way that everyone else knows he didn't mean to offend. i know it from my own personal experience. is that what YOU are relying on? I'm the one that said that would be a finding of fact for the judge or jury. indeed, it would. but you and i both know this will never reach trial. I'm deducing that the DA has better things to do than bring charges for nothing so I'm betting there was intent there. Maybe not, and I'm okay with that. It's a first offense. If it's not repeated then I know that he was just being stupid. If it is, there is a record of previous behaviour.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2014 18:20:20 GMT -5
Why do you have to be a Christian to think this is wrong? Would it be OK to do the same to other religious statues? One doesn't have to be Christian to think it's wrong. One does have to be "less than well versed on the First Amendment" to think it's illegal though.
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 15, 2014 18:28:27 GMT -5
indeed, it would. but you and i both know this will never reach trial. I'm deducing that the DA has better things to do than bring charges for nothing so I'm betting there was intent there. Maybe not, and I'm okay with that. It's a first offense. If it's not repeated then I know that he was just being stupid. If it is, there is a record of previous behaviour. Allegedly: The Altoona Mirror reports that Bill Higgins, the Bedford County district attorney, posted the following to Facebook on Thursday: "I guess I should take solace in the fact that the liberals are mad at me—again. As for this case, this troubled young man offended the sensibilities and morals of OUR community.… His actions constitute a violation of the law, and he will be prosecuted accordingly. If that tends to upset the 'anti-Christian, ban-school-prayer, war-on-Christmas, oppose-display-of-Ten-Commandments' crowd, I make no apologies. "He is also tweeting links about the incident to conservative television hosts and writing, “Christianity under attack.” 'Christianity Under Attack!' Teen Faces Jail for Lewd Pose with Jesus Statue
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2014 18:30:27 GMT -5
“For those who understand, no explanation is necessary; for those who don't understand, no explanation is possible” Bullhockey! I am less than 50 years old. Name me one instance in the past 50 years where a death was preceeded by a burning cross. I doubt you'll find one. That's old history AND you are derailing the original intent of my post. Would you support under free speech the righ of people to burn crosses in front of churches attended by mostly non white people? I know that wasn't asked of me... but my answer to that would be: "Depends on where the cross is 'planted'. If you stick it in the ground of the property owner... no. If you own the property the cross is in, fine, your property, and your cross."
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2014 18:32:19 GMT -5
I'm deducing that the DA has better things to do than bring charges for nothing so I'm betting there was intent there. Maybe not, and I'm okay with that. It's a first offense. If it's not repeated then I know that he was just being stupid. If it is, there is a record of previous behaviour. Allegedly: The Altoona Mirror reports that Bill Higgins, the Bedford County district attorney, posted the following to Facebook on Thursday: "I guess I should take solace in the fact that the liberals are mad at me—again. As for this case, this troubled young man offended the sensibilities and morals of OUR community.… His actions constitute a violation of the law, and he will be prosecuted accordingly. If that tends to upset the 'anti-Christian, ban-school-prayer, war-on-Christmas, oppose-display-of-Ten-Commandments' crowd, I make no apologies. "He is also tweeting links about the incident to conservative television hosts and writing, “Christianity under attack.” 'Christianity Under Attack!' Teen Faces Jail for Lewd Pose with Jesus Statue Crap. I hate it when that happens. I don't like the DA or agree with him about the rest of it. But I don't think what this kid did is okay and he did break a law.
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steff
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Post by steff on Sept 15, 2014 18:37:47 GMT -5
Allegedly: The Altoona Mirror reports that Bill Higgins, the Bedford County district attorney, posted the following to Facebook on Thursday: "I guess I should take solace in the fact that the liberals are mad at me—again. As for this case, this troubled young man offended the sensibilities and morals of OUR community.… His actions constitute a violation of the law, and he will be prosecuted accordingly. If that tends to upset the 'anti-Christian, ban-school-prayer, war-on-Christmas, oppose-display-of-Ten-Commandments' crowd, I make no apologies. "He is also tweeting links about the incident to conservative television hosts and writing, “Christianity under attack.” 'Christianity Under Attack!' Teen Faces Jail for Lewd Pose with Jesus Statue Crap. I hate it when that happens. I don't like the DA or agree with him about the rest of it. But I don't think what this kid did is okay and he did break a law. Ready to slide down that slippery slope yet?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2014 18:41:24 GMT -5
Crap. I hate it when that happens. I don't like the DA or agree with him about the rest of it. But I don't think what this kid did is okay and he did break a law. Ready to slide down that slippery slope yet? What slope? Did you see the part where I said I don't agree with this, this and this, but I do think that. That is how you stay off a slope. You don't lump everything together or let people lump good points in with irrelevant ones.
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