Teen facing 2 years for photo with statue

[djAdvocate]

Sept 15, 2014 15:09:50 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Good grief djAdvocate that's a whole different discussion of awful.

see what i mean?

[Deleted]

Sept 15, 2014 15:10:50 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Sept 15, 2014 15:09:50 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Good grief djAdvocate that's a whole different discussion of awful.

see what i mean?

No

[djAdvocate]

Sept 15, 2014 15:15:40 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Sept 15, 2014 15:10:50 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

see what i mean?

No

ok.  to you, and anyone over 30, this video probably looks sick, perverse, and offensive at a number of levels.

i am in a band with a bunch of 20-29 year olds.  they think this video is HILARIOUS.  if they also find it offensive, they are wont to say it.

NOW do you see what i mean?

edit: this video has 114 MILLION hits.

[Deleted]

Sept 15, 2014 15:18:22 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Sept 15, 2014 15:15:40 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

No

ok.  to you, and anyone over 30, this video probably looks sick, perverse, and offensive at a number of levels.

i am in a band with a bunch of 20-29 year olds.  they think this video is HILARIOUS.  if they also find it offensive, they are wont to say it.

NOW do you see what i mean?

edit: this video has 114 MILLION hits.

They might personally find it funny but they aren't oblivious to how others respond to it. They know if they do those things in mixed company they will get negative reactions. You wouldn't tell a girl to tolerate a guy approaching her that way because he found it funny. Or to allow him to tape it and post it on the internet. (At least I hope not. If you would there is a whole different discussion to have)

[Deleted]

Tea bagging a clown makes me look bad, but tea bagging Jesus doesn't? 

You need to foster a boy maybe? Or no, you need to stick with girls!  

The issue dj is trying to illustrate is that what is offensive to you isn't offensive you everyone. One person doesn't get to decide the standard of another's behavior.

[Deleted]

One person doesn't get to decide the standard of another's behavior.

Oh yes they do. Someone here is going to have their behaviour dictated. Either the boy is going to be taught not to do that or the community of that church is going to be told to tolerate the desecration of their statue. We are only debating which standard wins.

[djAdvocate]

Sept 15, 2014 15:23:14 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Sept 15, 2014 15:18:22 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

ok.  to you, and anyone over 30, this video probably looks sick, perverse, and offensive at a number of levels.

i am in a band with a bunch of 20-29 year olds.  they think this video is HILARIOUS.  if they also find it offensive, they are wont to say it.

NOW do you see what i mean?

edit: this video has 114 MILLION hits.

They might personally find it funny but they aren't oblivious to how others respond to it. They know if they do those things in mixed company they will get negative reactions. You wouldn't tell a girl to tolerate a guy approaching her that way because he found it funny. Or to allow him to tape it and post it on the internet. (At least I hope not. If you would there is a whole different discussion to have)

you have a very interesting take on this, later.  i believe just as fervently that young people don't think very often of who they might offend, ONLY of how their peers will react.  if they are really good kids, they MIGHT think of how their parents react.  but i know kids that don't even give their parents ACCESS to their sites (crazy, right?).

so, again, i am sorry that you were offended by what this kid did, and i neither have the inclination nor the ability to apologize for him.  BUT i would reiterate that i am 99% convinced that it was not his intention.

[Angel!]

Sept 15, 2014 15:18:22 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Sept 15, 2014 15:15:40 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

No

ok.  to you, and anyone over 30, this video probably looks sick, perverse, and offensive at a number of levels.

i am in a band with a bunch of 20-29 year olds.  they think this video is HILARIOUS.  if they also find it offensive, they are wont to say it.

NOW do you see what i mean?

edit: this video has 114 MILLION hits.

At least 35, maybe 40 for the ages of people that find it offensive. I am 34 and found the video to be a cross between funny & stupid. But, I didn't find it offensive at all.  Or maybe I have a very young & immature sense of humor. After all I found what the boy did to be amusing as well.  Or maybe it just amuses me because people are getting so uptight about it. 

[djAdvocate]

Sept 15, 2014 15:26:15 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

One person doesn't get to decide the standard of another's behavior.

Oh yes they do. Someone here is going to have their behaviour dictated. Either the boy is going to be taught not to do that or the community of that church is going to be told to tolerate the desecration of their statue. We are only debating which standard wins.

i don't think anyone is condoning what the boy did, later.  only how "criminal" it was.

[Angel!]

Sept 15, 2014 15:31:09 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Sept 15, 2014 15:23:14 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

They might personally find it funny but they aren't oblivious to how others respond to it. They know if they do those things in mixed company they will get negative reactions. You wouldn't tell a girl to tolerate a guy approaching her that way because he found it funny. Or to allow him to tape it and post it on the internet. (At least I hope not. If you would there is a whole different discussion to have)

you have a very interesting take on this, later.  i believe just as fervently that young people don't think very often of who they might offend, ONLY of how their peers will react.  if they are really good kids, they MIGHT think of how their parents react.  but i know kids that don't even give their parents ACCESS to their sites (crazy, right?).

so, again, i am sorry that you were offended by what this kid did, and i neither have the inclination nor the ability to apologize for him.  BUT i would reiterate that i am 99% convinced that it was not his intention.

Totally agree. I don't think this was done to offend or harrass anyone. This was done because this is the type of humor that teen boys love.

[djAdvocate]

Sept 15, 2014 15:35:33 GMT -5 Angel! said:

Sept 15, 2014 15:31:09 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

you have a very interesting take on this, later.  i believe just as fervently that young people don't think very often of who they might offend, ONLY of how their peers will react.  if they are really good kids, they MIGHT think of how their parents react.  but i know kids that don't even give their parents ACCESS to their sites (crazy, right?).

so, again, i am sorry that you were offended by what this kid did, and i neither have the inclination nor the ability to apologize for him.  BUT i would reiterate that i am 99% convinced that it was not his intention.

Totally agree. I don't think this was done to offend or harrass anyone. This was done because this is the type of humor that teen boys love.

precisely.  fart jokes.  beavis and butthead.  and anything vaguely sexual.

[deziloooooo]

Sept 14, 2014 16:32:00 GMT -5 Angel! said:

Sept 14, 2014 16:04:05 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

I don't know if some of you realise how deeply offensive those pictures are to some of us.

If we are going to let westboro sit outside funerals with their signs, then I'm thinking offensive does not equal illegal.

I don't care how offensive it is, I don't think it is worthy of jail. 

You bring up a good point...however, it was a outrageous stunt and I can see how many..we have one here who reports serious uneasiness with viewing the picture...are very upset and want some type of consequence..I am thinking mandatory education with clergy..different denominations...explaining his stupidity and why so many are so upset with possible time spent in community service ..dealing say with elderly..sick and disabled..possible even weekends in a lock up  to make the seriousness of the doings apparent to the young man....all these ..together or seperate  make more sense to me then say a two year imprisonment..

There are country's  who would use capital punishment for such actions..I hope we haven't reached that step yet but a correction of the youth..absolutely.

[justme]

Of all the things I could have gotten arrested for doing as a teen, I would have been down right flabbergasted (and had a hard time not laughing in the cop's face) to be getting hauled away over taking a stupid picture with a statue. 


At least I'm an adult now and don't do that stuff anymore....I swear on my life there's not a photo of me in my mid 20s with my leg wrapped around a cutout of The Most Interesting Man in the World with my tongue sticking out around his face. 

[Deleted]

Sept 15, 2014 15:35:21 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Sept 15, 2014 15:26:15 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Oh yes they do. Someone here is going to have their behaviour dictated. Either the boy is going to be taught not to do that or the community of that church is going to be told to tolerate the desecration of their statue. We are only debating which standard wins.

i don't think anyone is condoning what the boy did, later.  only how "criminal" it was.

Making something criminal is the only way we as a society have of saying something is unacceptable. We have decided to defer to the rule of law rather than have shoot outs at high noon downtown. The punishment for this can be "up to" 2 years in prison. If the judge and or jury agrees with you about how innocent these boys intentions were he won't get a full sentence.

I actually do read a lot of people here condoning what he did. I think those that find Christianity offensive are defending his behaviour because of that. They know that to many people it isn't "just a statue" and is much more significant than a clown head or gorilla statue. Because they don't feel that way about it it is okay to dismiss the faith of those that do. It reminds me of something I saw on a Star Trek episode once. "I don't want to end oppression, I just want to be the one doing the oppressing"

[Deleted]

Sept 15, 2014 15:58:55 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

Sept 15, 2014 15:52:24 GMT -5 deziloooooo said:

You bring up a good point...however, it was a outrageous stunt and I can see how many..we have one here who reports serious uneasiness with viewing the picture...are very upset and want some type of consequence..I am thinking mandatory education with clergy..different denominations...explaining his stupidity and why so many are so upset with possible time spent in community service ..dealing say with elderly..sick and disabled..possible even weekends in a lock up  to make the seriousness of the doings apparent to the young man....all these ..together or seperat make more sense to me then say a two year imprisonment..

There are country's  who would use capital punishment for such actions..I hope we haven't reached that step yet but a correction of the youth..absolutly.

Should Westboro Baptists have to do the same thing? Christians who publicly burn Korans? Protesters who burn flags? Protesters who burned their draft cards? Folks who take selfies next to dead animals they just shot? Everything offends somebody, which ones should be crimes? All? None? Only the ones that Chistians find offensive?

Freedom of speech buddy. Freedom of speech. I don't have to like how this kid exercised his, but I fully support his right to do it.

Christians that burn Korans should. It's the same crime. If sacred objects mean nothing than we should be allowed to display them everywhere. But we aren't. Because it is understood that they are unique. You don't get to have it both ways. If they are significant enough to be kept out of schools and government buildings they are significant enough for the desecration laws. They are already legally recognised as unique objects.

[justme]

I consider myself a Christian. I don't find it offensive.


There are an infinite number of other things that a wholly more offensive then a stupid teenage boy poising crudely with an inanimate object. 

[zibazinski]

Well, when we we in Phoenix, DF took pictures of me pretending to give a BJ to path lights that looked like giant penises. Would I want my kids or friends to see them? Not really but I wouldn't hide my head in shame, either. So I'm still doing stupid stuff. I'm OLD, too.

[Angel!]

Sept 15, 2014 16:06:52 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Sept 15, 2014 15:35:21 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

i don't think anyone is condoning what the boy did, later.  only how "criminal" it was.

Making something criminal is the only way we as a society have of saying something is unacceptable. We have decided to defer to the rule of law rather than have shoot outs at high noon downtown. The punishment for this can be "up to" 2 years in prison. If the judge and or jury agrees with you about how innocent these boys intentions were he won't get a full sentence.

I actually do read a lot of people here condoning what he did. I think those that find Christianity offensive are defending his behaviour because of that. They know that to many people it isn't "just a statue" and is much more significant than a clown head or gorilla statue. Because they don't feel that way about it it is okay to dismiss the faith of those that do. It reminds me of something I saw on a Star Trek episode once. "I don't want to end oppression, I just want to be the one doing the oppressing"

Freedom of speech in our country trumps making something criminal just because we find it offensive.

While I don't necessarily condone his actions.  I don't really have a big problem with them either.  And I will admit I find it amusing to see people getting their panties in a bunch over this.  I'm tired of hearing about the supposed war on christmas, war on christians, etc.  Christians seem to have a persecution complex & believe everything & everyone is out to get them.  Like the need to believe that this kid posed for the picture & posted it merely to offend others...it's silly.  If you believe that, you are giving this kid way too much credit.

[deziloooooo]

Sept 15, 2014 16:17:06 GMT -5 Angel! said:

Sept 15, 2014 16:06:52 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Making something criminal is the only way we as a society have of saying something is unacceptable. We have decided to defer to the rule of law rather than have shoot outs at high noon downtown. The punishment for this can be "up to" 2 years in prison. If the judge and or jury agrees with you about how innocent these boys intentions were he won't get a full sentence.

I actually do read a lot of people here condoning what he did. I think those that find Christianity offensive are defending his behaviour because of that. They know that to many people it isn't "just a statue" and is much more significant than a clown head or gorilla statue. Because they don't feel that way about it it is okay to dismiss the faith of those that do. It reminds me of something I saw on a Star Trek episode once. "I don't want to end oppression, I just want to be the one doing the oppressing"

Freedom of speech in our country trumps making something criminal just because we find it offensive.

While I don't necessarily condone his actions.  I don't really have a big problem with them either.  And I will admit I find it amusing to see people getting their panties in a bunch over this.  I'm tired of hearing about the supposed war on christmas, war on christians, etc.  Christians seem to have a persecution complex & believe everything & everyone is out to get them.  Like the need to believe that this kid posed for the picture & posted it merely to offend others...it's silly.  If you believe that, you are giving this kid way too much credit.

I am thinking in a way this kid is already learning a lesson that his actions were stupid and there are consequences...Even if his parents haven't laid into him..possible find little wrong on his actions..on the other hand as their attorney , { I am sure he found a great need to acquire one...and possible there is one offering to work pro bono or a "legal aid one if he can't afford.."..still most of us would want our own paid for legal help and that is going to cost many thousand...so there is his lesson in a way...especially if his parents are on the hook for it....

[zibazinski]

Not only that but good luck with getting jobs and into a good college. 

[swamp]

Sept 15, 2014 16:35:14 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Not only that but good luck with getting jobs and into a good college. 

I'd hire him if he was qualified. Kids are dumb.He will grow up .

[Angel!]

Sept 15, 2014 16:47:30 GMT -5 swamp said:

Sept 15, 2014 16:35:14 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Not only that but good luck with getting jobs and into a good college. 

I'd hire him if he was qualified. Kids are dumb.He will grow up .

I'm guessing with this generations access & use of social media it will be hard to find someone who didn't do something stupid & post about it. 

He could also use it as an example of learning how actions affect others, blah, blah, blah on a college essay. 

[zibazinski]

That's why the smart kids who still have a FB page have two of them.

[Green Eyed Lady]

I find this highly offensive. I would also find someone taking a picture of themselves pretending to hold a noose by the state of MLK...or a person taking a picture of themselves pointing the "finger gun" at the Lincoln memorial...or those Westboro people at a solder's funeral....or someone desecrating the American flag as offensive. It's about respect and I find it completely...surprising...that anyone over the age of 12 finds this "funny", but we all don't share the same sense of humor.

There is a reason juveniles are treated differently than adults in the court system. I'm not an expert on juvenile law, but one of the reasons, I believe, is that juvenile law is focused on rehabilitation rather than penalization. The only thing that incarcerating this young man with real criminals is going to accomplish is to, very probably, turn a stupid kid into a real criminal.

I totally agree with whomever said that this kid, more than likely, didn't intend to offend those who believe. I fully think he was just being a stupid kid attempting to be the way coolest, most rad, clowniest 14 year old in the group. I wouldn't object to sentencing him to a few hours of picking up dog shit in the park and then taking a picture and posting that one. Wonder how cool he'd think he was then? It does appear he needs a lesson in respect. This could be a huge teaching moment.

I would imagine there are enough mature young people in his peer group who also think he was disgusting. Couple that with the fact that other parents (not to mention his own) have seen this and will wonder about the merits of letting their kids hang out with him. Perhaps he, inadvertently, has punished himself enough.

[djAdvocate]

Sept 15, 2014 16:06:52 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Sept 15, 2014 15:35:21 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

i don't think anyone is condoning what the boy did, later.  only how "criminal" it was.

Making something criminal is the only way we as a society have of saying something is unacceptable.

LOL!  you really believe that?  try cussing in a church sometime.

[djAdvocate]

Sept 15, 2014 16:06:52 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

I actually do read a lot of people here condoning what he did.

post number?

[djAdvocate]

Sept 15, 2014 16:16:55 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Well, when we we in Phoenix, DF took pictures of me pretending to give a BJ to path lights that looked like giant penises.

i don't believe you.  post proof. 

[djAdvocate]

Sept 15, 2014 16:17:06 GMT -5 Angel! said:

Sept 15, 2014 16:06:52 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Making something criminal is the only way we as a society have of saying something is unacceptable. We have decided to defer to the rule of law rather than have shoot outs at high noon downtown. The punishment for this can be "up to" 2 years in prison. If the judge and or jury agrees with you about how innocent these boys intentions were he won't get a full sentence.

I actually do read a lot of people here condoning what he did. I think those that find Christianity offensive are defending his behaviour because of that. They know that to many people it isn't "just a statue" and is much more significant than a clown head or gorilla statue. Because they don't feel that way about it it is okay to dismiss the faith of those that do. It reminds me of something I saw on a Star Trek episode once. "I don't want to end oppression, I just want to be the one doing the oppressing"

Freedom of speech in our country trumps making something criminal just because we find it offensive.

While I don't necessarily condone his actions.  I don't really have a big problem with them either.  And I will admit I find it amusing to see people getting their panties in a bunch over this.  I'm tired of hearing about the supposed war on christmas, war on christians, etc.  Christians seem to have a persecution complex & believe everything & everyone is out to get them.  Like the need to believe that this kid posed for the picture & posted it merely to offend others...it's silly.  If you believe that, you are giving this kid way too much credit.

it is so weird to see a group that makes up over 80% of the US public holler like they are a minority.  i mean, it made sense in South Africa, where the 80% were rounded up into prison camps, beaten, and denied the vote.  but to have a group that is represented by all aspects of life and government take this tactic is....well humorous isn't the right word.  odd?  nutso?

[djAdvocate]

Sept 15, 2014 16:35:14 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Not only that but good luck with getting jobs and into a good college. 

fortunately, juvi records are generally sealed.  if he gets his act together, he should be ok.

[zibazinski]

Sept 15, 2014 17:41:52 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Sept 15, 2014 16:16:55 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Well, when we we in Phoenix, DF took pictures of me pretending to give a BJ to path lights that looked like giant penises.

i don't believe you.  post proof. 

Heh, heh, not me!