sesfw
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Post by sesfw on Sept 14, 2014 14:21:07 GMT -5
But, why, again, would I make the choice to put my kids in a class where they will one of a handful that can perform at grade level?
If the difference is family survival ....... you do what you have to do, not necessarily what you want to do.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 14, 2014 14:28:10 GMT -5
I wouldn't like my kids to be afraid to use the bathroom or walk the halls or be on the school bus or lunch room, no matter how high they might score by comparison. Remember, being the top dog in a low performing school doesn't give you any brownie points when it comes to college admissions. Unless you happen to be a minority.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Sept 14, 2014 14:33:40 GMT -5
What is DHs career ambitions? I don't think he should be boxed in not pursuing these because "it doesn't add up" and he has 250k (?) or something in his inheritance account. The money should allow him to pursue that FT job/career if he wants to. i think this is only honoring the grandparents who bequeathed it to him. He should be allowed to make these choices. My DH has really never ever had career ambitions. He actually picked a worse major than me in undergrad. He worked dead end jobs (his first job, I actually found for him), went back to grad school. DH should have left our state after he got an undergrad. He chose to stay with me, and eventually marry me. I can't unring that bell now. When DH got his masters, most of his job options were out of state in HCOLA. Yes, I'm sure that all of you are going to tell me that the best option would have been for all of us to move to Boston and try to get by on 40K there for a family of 4. Oh wait, and drain our retirement money to do so, until I had gotten a job. DH had the opportunity with his last job, to take on full time work. I told him to, and we would figure it out. Ultimately, he decided to stay part time until the littlest is in school, which is a few more years. Then our costs would drop more and it would make more sense. And, no, maybe 5K over 20 years won't make a difference. But I AM afraid of dipping into funds without having a reasonable way to pay them back. If we get close to getting to paycheck-paycheck for a while, I'm not saving money. And, I'd rather dip into the money for things like braces, not baby sitters. I want to be done working full time before I'm 60. I can retire at 55, likely I'll hang it up at 58ish. I don't want to work full time until I'm 60, 65 or even 70. There's other things I want to be doing with my life. I'm 40. Given that I want to check out of the working world sooner than later, making choices that eat into our money doesn't seem prudent. Especially when we won't be able to replenish money for another 3 years, minimally. I have admitted several times that I know I have a bad relationship with money. And I know how first world this looks. We all make the best choices that we can at any given time. We are looking into further decreasing our expenses. This isn't the first time I've taken reductions in pay. But, at some point, the reductions need to stop.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Sept 14, 2014 14:43:40 GMT -5
But there are others also who don't graduate and will end up in jail at a young age. Is it ok for your kids to sit next to them? Is it the budding criminal or the race that you are focused on? I'm not sure if you're aware of how offensive what you wrote was. Whatever stats you may quote doesn't make it less offensive. There are black males on the board, and mothers' of black males. If 50% become criminals - then 50% do not, yet your post would indicate shunning both - essentially convicting them before they have even done the crime and half of those never will go that route. It's the definition of racism. You could have said you didn't want your kids in a school/sitting next to kids with a high rate of dropping out and become criminals. That you choose to focus on race is really a problem. I know there are lots of black males on this board. And they are successful. And, my goodness, I would love it if they would be in a situation to mentor my child. I am not saying that all black males are doomed. I'm not afraid of the kids that don't do as well. I work with a population that isn't even legal here in the US. Some of these kids have been homeless. I have NO issue with this. Our school is finally getting some diversity. I'm the first one to celebrate it. I was telling everyone how glad I was. My DS is even on a little league team that is really diverse. I was really excited. I was even hoping, up until last week, to get into our neighborhood school and volunteer my time working with the kids that can't read. I finally had some time cleared out in my schedule to do that. I guess I don't see it like you. And we will have to disagree. I have other stuff to tend to...likely won't be returning...
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Sept 15, 2014 11:56:01 GMT -5
I think there is a danger in minimizing the contributions of a lower wage earning spouse. I have to jump in here - I have never, ever seen giramomma minimize her husband's contributions to their household. Quite the opposite. She has said repeatedly over multiple threads that fatherhood is more than a paycheck and emphasized the value he brings to their home. She's explained to me on more than one occasion how they've been able to get down to flexible schedules so he can be home with the kids and she can focus more on her career, which is apparently what they both wanted. I'm kind of sensitive on this point because if we ever have a SAHP it will not be me and giramomma has always been my idea of a family that really values everyone's contributions, monetary and non-monetary. I don't think she minimizes anything.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Sept 15, 2014 12:01:18 GMT -5
Not saying your decision for private isn't a good one, but there are advantages to being a kid with involved parents in a school without much competition.
Point well taken but sometimes being a big fish in a small pond (education wise) doesn't adequately prepare you for college work.
The bar at some urban schools is so low that the valedictorians can barely read. Yeah, that bad. It doesn't do any good to be at the "top" of such a school if you are then unable to handle university work.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2014 12:13:11 GMT -5
Not saying your decision for private isn't a good one, but there are advantages to being a kid with involved parents in a school without much competition.
Point well taken but sometimes being a big fish in a small pond (education wise) doesn't adequately prepare you for college work. The bar at some urban schools is so low that the valedictorians can barely read. Yeah, that bad. It doesn't do any good to be at the "top" of such a school if you are then unable to handle university work. and being valedictorian at a poorly rated school doesn't give you a leg up on college admissions. admissions counselors look at the overall performance of a school, not just individual performance...so someone ranked in the bottom half of a school where 95% of the kids are taking and passing AP classes, etc. may be more favorable than the top of a poorly performing school.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Sept 15, 2014 12:29:14 GMT -5
I have other stuff to tend to...likely won't be returning... I really hope Gira didn't mean she's leaving for good but is just going to be busy.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Sept 15, 2014 12:44:30 GMT -5
I'm just throwing out options. We considered private school. In the end, it was not worth the more expensive house, tuition and hours we would have needed to work to pay for it. In her situation I'd probably see if inlaws wanted to contribute to private school. And almost anyone can homeschool. Wanting to is a different story. Still though, sending out alternatives. Oped - I know you are a trained educator, right? I think you really underestimate how difficult it can be to teach sometimes. We've gone over this before, remember? I became incapable of teaching DD math once she hit the 4th grade. There's no way I could teach my daughter as well as, or better than, the teachers she's had so far.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Sept 15, 2014 12:50:25 GMT -5
My impression is that homeschooling requires patience, organization, and discipline that not everyone possesses. I literally know hundreds of homeschooling families. I help run a local group, evaluate and work as an advocate if needed. My kids say I'm always 'recruiting' ... No two families do it the same way. They all vary in levels of patience, organization and discipline and the importance they place on those those qualities. None of them are wrong. It's really a lifestyle thing more than a 'schooling' thing. I'm perfectly ok if people choose not to homeschool. But the idea that they 'can't' is one I have a problem with.... I've met very few people who are actually incapable of supervising their own child's education. Oped - I'm NOT picking on you, I respect the hell out of those who can teach kids. But isn't is possible that the folks you've met who can do it are those who have the talent and inclination in the first place? It's be like me saying everyone can do income tax accounting because everyone I've worked with does it. No, only those with the desire and ability to do this job are doing it, so that's how my subset was formed. Again, I think you underestimate what you accomplish, and overestimate that of which others are capable.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2014 13:15:08 GMT -5
I think part of this, a big part, is conflating homeschool, with parent teacher. I'm a teacher, but when it comes to homeschooling, My job is to run our 'school'... I'm the superintendant. Do I sometimes teach, sure lots. But ultimately I'm signing up to be the supervisor, not the teacher. There are many instances in which I do not feel comfortable/qualified/inclined to teach... So I find outside resources for that. As far as outright teaching in younger grades, I think often people overestimate the task, and underestimate themselves ... I didn't teach either of my kids to read. We provided a print rich environment, read a lot, listened to lots of stories and they just read, kind Of like they just walked... Honestly, it wasn't a grueling multi year process. Most basic level skills aren't if you are patient enough to wait till the child is developmentally ready I know we've been conditioned not to think this, but it's true... As they have gotten older, some stuff I relearn with them, or learn with them, or tell them to go learn by themselves if they want to know it... A lot of my training as an educator was in three things 1) how to control and meet the needs of large groups- not an issue homeschooling... 2) how to motivate kids - much less an issue if education is more individually centered and because I was special Ed 3) ... How to basically throw out all traditional schooling structure in order to focus on the individual, modify, adapt and work on independent goals... Well, duh
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Sept 15, 2014 15:05:37 GMT -5
I think part of this, a big part, is conflating homeschool, with parent teacher. Homeschooling your kids by no means implies that you're their sole teacher. You probably SHOULDN'T be, unless you're some kind of genius AND a kid whisperer to boot. I only know one homeschooling parent who manages her kids' entire education herself (writing all the lesson plans and teaching all the subjects) and frankly, I think she does a horrible job. She's not all that smart herself (sounds mean but it's true) and she's doing those kids a major disservice by refusing to let anyone else teach them.
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Nazgul Girl
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Post by Nazgul Girl on Sept 15, 2014 20:15:09 GMT -5
I have a couple of questions about homeschooled h.s. graduates. Do they actually graduate from a high school ( as in one of those online things ) ? If they spend their entire lives being homeschooled, are they ruled out of the competition for most scholarships ? Are there adjustment problems when they hit college ? Just wondering.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2014 21:29:27 GMT -5
That's a fairly complicated set of questions Nazgul And will almost certainly differ by state. PA has accredited Homeschool Diploma organizations which help to organize a transcript and provide a state approved diploma. Some use organizations like Seton or Kolbe Academy, which flexibly combine self study, online, correspondence... and provide transcript and diploma. Many manage to go to college without a diploma. Colleges are becoming adept at evaluating alternatives with homeschoolers.. Plus many kids who homeschool to college dual enroll, so have some credits before going full time. Because PA is stricter, and has a firm framework for homeschooling, it might be easier in PA to transition to college. I'm not sure of this. But I went to a homeschooling high school conference once, and the key note was from a different state, she went on and on about how you needed to do cleft and ACT, etc. Etc. ... But to a one, every college recruiter there at the conference said she was a little nuts and that stuff really wasn't necessary... If you don't get a diploma, or 30 college credits, or GED, you are not eligible for fed financial aid! until you hit that 30 credits. Scholarships? I guess would depend on the particular one... I know the college son likes routinely gives scholarships to homeschoolers.. So I don't know much about that one yet... Sorry. Adjustment problems, I always think depend on the kid. I had adjustment problems, and I wasnt homeschooled? Are you asking because of a perceived issue with 'socialization' ... Because that is largely a myth...
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Nazgul Girl
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Post by Nazgul Girl on Sept 16, 2014 7:49:02 GMT -5
Thanks for satisfying some of my curiosity, Oped. No, I wasn't asking about "socialization" by any means. I was indeed asking about whether there were adjustment problems once the home-schooled high-school level student goes to college. I would think that it would be difficult to go from sitting at the dining room table with brothers and sisters for 12 years to a 200-student lecture hall.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2014 8:02:04 GMT -5
Yes. I see. Well, again, it probably depend on the individual, personality and exposure. My kids haven't been in long term classes with large groups, although they have participated in co/op, lab and art classes, etc... but they've already attended lectures, speeches, etc. in large groups... I do plan on having them dual enroll to at least some degree so that i can help guide the transition a little, ease any adjustments. Again, I had a bad time adjusting to college without being homeschooled... So I think its individual a lot.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Sept 16, 2014 8:04:47 GMT -5
Yes. I see. Well, again, it probably depend on the individual, personality and exposure. My kids haven't been in long term classes with large groups, although they have participated in co/op, lab and art classes, etc... but they've already attended lectures, speeches, etc. in large groups... I do plan on having them dual enroll to at least some degree so that i can help guide the transition a little, ease any adjustments. Again, I had a bad time adjusting to college without being homeschooled... So I think its individual a lot. I was thinking that everyone has some kind of adjustment to college to make no matter if they're homeschooled or not.
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Nazgul Girl
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Post by Nazgul Girl on Sept 16, 2014 8:30:00 GMT -5
Thanks for clarifying, Oped. I think your plan is a good one. I have always wondered about that transition period. Yes, everyone has to adjust to the hurley-burley of college; however, I thought it was kind of a leap from the kitchen table at home to, say, a 45,000 student land-grant college such as I attended. I have always wondered if that was one of the detriments of being home-schooled. That being said, I can see a lot of positives about good home-schooling, such as individualized attention and being sheltered from some of the rougher elements at some schools.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2014 8:43:22 GMT -5
Well, again, most homeschooled kids don't get all their education at the kitchen table. Their education is just planned at the kitchen table ...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2014 9:12:11 GMT -5
By then most people will be 'homeschooling' I think, even through college. Learning is ubiquitous. Once we get a stable skills based testing system online, the reasons to go to an actual brick and mortar, at least today's brick and mortar, will disappear. . Just my prediction. We'll have to wait and see
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Nazgul Girl
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Post by Nazgul Girl on Sept 16, 2014 9:18:35 GMT -5
By then most people will be 'homeschooling' I think, even through college. Learning is ubiquitous. Once we get a stable skills based testing system online, the reasons to go to an actual brick and mortar, at least today's brick and mortar, will disappear. . Just my prediction. We'll have to wait and see I also think that's going to be the trend, at least in large part, because brick and mortar universities are extremely expensive. There could be a two-tier college system, similar to Britain's.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2014 9:19:53 GMT -5
By then most people will be 'homeschooling' I think, even through college. L earning is ubiquitous. Once we get a stable skills based testing system online, the reasons to go to an actual brick and mortar, at least today's brick and mortar, will disappear. . Just my prediction. We'll have to wait and see But isn't the day to day interaction with other kids important too? If my kids were homeschooled they'd be sitting at home all day in front of a computer by themselves. They'd be even weirder than they are now.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 16, 2014 9:29:53 GMT -5
It depends on your idea of socialization. My kids and I, myself, hang around with people like myself. The idea that children learn better next to someone with poor behavior does no one any good but perpetuates a myth that certain agendas want perpetuated.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2014 9:39:53 GMT -5
Actually, I think class like environments will continue, as some people learn better that way. I don't know that the whole experience will be the same, I think it will be more flexible, more "piecemeal' in some ways although that has a negative connotation...
Mpl... Again, the idea that homeschoolers in general learn all their lessons in isolation at the kitchen table is not terribly accurate.
Right now we spend, at high school level (well 8th and 10th), 2-3 days a week doing 'book' type work. That leaves a lot of time for other things... When they were younger we did much less book type work, although we did less in a day as well.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2014 9:56:16 GMT -5
Yeah, but my kids (and something like 40% of all kids) are raised by a single parent, so from 7:30-5:00 he'd have to be alone. I could leave a list of lessons to do, and have him involved in things in the evenings and weekends, but I think I'd raise a professional Minecraft player.
eta: Mainly I'm just questioning homeschooling being the way of the future when for so many it's not even an option and the number of dual parent households where one can stay home is declining.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2014 10:09:35 GMT -5
I think cooperative learning spaces, 'teams' of parents, etc. Will become more common.
Learning also doesn't need to take place 7:30-5, M-F...
Of course, I think there is a good chance employment will also continue to evolve as well.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2014 10:12:02 GMT -5
And actual, stay at home parents are actually rising, not declining, in recent years.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2014 10:31:10 GMT -5
We have a lot of small charter schools in our area. My boys actually go to the first charter Montessori in the nation. The "middle school" level (7th and 8th grade) is only 33 kids with 6 teachers. More stay at home parents while at the same time single parents are rising? I see a great divide.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2014 10:39:02 GMT -5
If I was single, I'd move in with/ near one or two other moms and commune / share thing... We'd work around each other's shifts and school/etc together some. Totally doable. Obviously it might not be everyone's choice, but it's definately an option.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2014 10:40:46 GMT -5
Most of the 'stay at home moms' I know do work to some degree, I did the breakdown once on a thread, at least half of us homeschooling do some kind of work.
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