Where are the moderate Muslim voices?

[mmhmm]

After 9/11 my email literally exploded. So many old friends who wanted to offer their condolences and tell me how heartsick and ashamed they were. I really felt for them, as it had never occurred to me to blame any of them, or to find them at fault. Yet, they felt the need to apologize. I found it sad.

[djAdvocate]

Jan 12, 2015 0:00:02 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

After 9/11 my email literally exploded. So many old friends who wanted to offer their condolences and tell me how heartsick and ashamed they were. I really felt for them, as it had never occurred to me to blame any of them, or to find them at fault. Yet, they felt the need to apologize. I found it sad.

well, that is sad.  but that is how this whole thing played out.  rather than blaming the relationship that we have with the ME, which is both our fault and theirs, we blamed "Islamofascism".  and this lead us to concluded that bombing Afghanistan and Iraq were a good way to combat it, i guess.  and that, in turn, lead to the Paris bombings.  it is hard to see how this stops, so long as we keep reacting, instead of THINKING and UNDERSTANDING.

[Deleted]

Jan 11, 2015 23:56:32 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Jan 11, 2015 23:54:48 GMT -5 @xmascookie said:

Well then I guess it's up to them. With social media not that hard anymore.

They're on social media. Thing is, it's not you they need to convince. They're on social media convincing those who need convincing - the young Turks of militant Islam. They're not seeking to talk to you. You're not the problem.

They are wrong.  There is a world out there that would like to know that the moderates out there are doing what they can to stem the tides of the radicals. Maybe it's fear that keeps them quiet, understandable to a point.

 I commend those that are. They are brave and I am grateful for them.

 Despite or in spite of what the US has done, does, will do, could do, should do, I think it needs to come from within.

 I don't believe that the west at this point in time can do much of anything to change a jihadist's warped belief system and I know we are not tolerant enough to wait it out while they kill innocent people = more dead people.

[Deleted]

Jan 11, 2015 21:39:24 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jan 11, 2015 19:29:56 GMT -5 Opti said:

Wake up and do what exactly?

I think its crazy to believe that just speaking up is going to accomplish anything.

I also do not agree with the belief if you can be linked to someone or some groups

doing bad things it is more your responsibility to stop it than anyone else except the perps.

It feels like a weird not in my back yard parallel. You and some other conservatives seem to

be saying there's a problem, 'Its big. I want it fixed. And it is your(Muslims) responsibility to do so.'

i think there is a notion underlying this that we are powerless to do anything other than attack Muslim majority nations, and that we have to count on Muslims to save us by saving themselves or some such rubbish.

which, of course, is absurd.

What's your plan?

[mmhmm]

Jan 12, 2015 3:31:20 GMT -5 @xmascookie said:

Jan 11, 2015 23:56:32 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

They're on social media. Thing is, it's not you they need to convince. They're on social media convincing those who need convincing - the young Turks of militant Islam. They're not seeking to talk to you. You're not the problem.

They are wrong.  There is a world out there that would like to know that the moderates out there are doing what they can to stem the tides of the radicals. Maybe it's fear that keeps them quiet, understandable to a point.

 I commend those that are. They are brave and I am grateful for them.

 Despite or in spite of what the US has done, does, will do, could do, should do, I think it needs to come from within.

 I don't believe that the west at this point in time can do much of anything to change a jihadist's warped belief system and I know we are not tolerant enough to wait it out while they kill innocent people = more dead people.

I'm afraid I disagree. I think it's much more important that the moderates work with their own to stem these tides than to waste their time meeting the wants of a curious world. While you might want to know what they're doing about all this, it's not near as important to me that you get your wish as it is that moderates make their voices heard among their own people; especially, among those who are at risk of radicalization. As you say, it needs to come from within, and it needs to be directed within, not at those who simply want to know what's going on.

[Value Buy]

Jan 11, 2015 21:37:36 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jan 11, 2015 14:25:33 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

If we stop for a moment, and think about it, I think most of us have that same awareness. Thing is, there are a lot of people who don't take that moment to think before they condemn all Muslims for the actions of the terrorists. This does nothing but add fuel to the fire and, sometimes, it acts to turn the moderate Muslims against Westerners. You see the same thing in the African American population and, to a degree, in the Latin American population. It's a shame, really.

do you know what radicalized the three young men involved in the French attack?

the invasion of Iraq.

ponder that for a bit.

At least that was what they were told to say, and was pounded into their brains to believe during the radicalization process.

The one brother was taped a few years ago that it was the lack of jobs, and segregation that isolated the Muslims in France and created the radicalization process.

[Value Buy]

Jan 12, 2015 0:00:02 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

After 9/11 my email literally exploded. So many old friends who wanted to offer their condolences and tell me how heartsick and ashamed they were. I really felt for them, as it had never occurred to me to blame any of them, or to find them at fault. Yet, they felt the need to apologize. I found it sad.

And exactly has one of them done about it since?

[mmhmm]

Jan 12, 2015 10:15:53 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Jan 12, 2015 0:00:02 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

After 9/11 my email literally exploded. So many old friends who wanted to offer their condolences and tell me how heartsick and ashamed they were. I really felt for them, as it had never occurred to me to blame any of them, or to find them at fault. Yet, they felt the need to apologize. I found it sad.

And exactly has one of them done about it since?

What would you like them to do? They've talked to their own. They've continued to be the wonderful people they are and tried to set a good example, both in their own countries, and here when they travel here. I don't know what else they've done, and neither do you. We probably won't know because we're not there. What we know is only what our media lets us know.

[Value Buy]

Jan 12, 2015 10:18:47 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Jan 12, 2015 10:15:53 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

And exactly has one of them done about it since?

What would you like them to do? They've talked to their own. They've continued to be the wonderful people they are and tried to set a good example, both in their own countries, and here when they travel here. I don't know what else they've done, and neither do you. We probably won't know because we're not there. What we know is only what our media lets us know.

So none have stepped up to the plate, and put their thoughts out in public trying to make a change.

If they were your true friends, you would have communication of their actions.

[mmhmm]

Jan 12, 2015 10:23:35 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Jan 12, 2015 10:18:47 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

What would you like them to do? They've talked to their own. They've continued to be the wonderful people they are and tried to set a good example, both in their own countries, and here when they travel here. I don't know what else they've done, and neither do you. We probably won't know because we're not there. What we know is only what our media lets us know.

So none have stepped up to the plate, and put their thoughts out in public trying to make a change.

If they were your true friends, you would have communication of their actions.

Did I say that? I think I said I don't know what they have, or haven't done. I'm not willing to jump on your hate train, VB, so we'll just leave it there. I know what they've said to me, and I know them as people. That's enough for me.

[Tennesseer]

Jan 12, 2015 10:15:53 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Jan 12, 2015 0:00:02 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

After 9/11 my email literally exploded. So many old friends who wanted to offer their condolences and tell me how heartsick and ashamed they were. I really felt for them, as it had never occurred to me to blame any of them, or to find them at fault. Yet, they felt the need to apologize. I found it sad.

And exactly has one of them done about it since?

I imagine you meant to say above, " And exacly what has one of them done about it since?" Well this is what 'one of them' has done about it since then.  Bathily could have said about the others in the market, "Screw em'."

Lassana Bathily, Muslim Employee At Kosher Market, Saved Several People During Paris Hostage Situation

[Value Buy]

Jan 12, 2015 10:27:23 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Jan 12, 2015 10:23:35 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

So none have stepped up to the plate, and put their thoughts out in public trying to make a change.

If they were your true friends, you would have communication of their actions.

Did I say that? I think I said I don't know what they have, or haven't done. I'm not willing to jump on your hate train, VB, so we'll just leave it there. I know what they've said to me, and I know them as people. That's enough for me.

hate train.......not at all, that is rather "extreme" in describing my response and I resent that.

This is America and we have a right to express our opinion.

The hate train is in the Islamist extremists and the moderates who refuse to do anything.

There is an undeclared war going on.

Your failure as well as our President to recognize this is the national tragedy.

Incidently, my inbox was also full on 911 too.

Not really surprising

Big whoop

[Value Buy]

Hate train.

Kind of why moderate Muslims do and say nothing.

They would be attacked by the extremists for their thoughts.

[djAdvocate]

Jan 12, 2015 3:40:58 GMT -5 @xmascookie said:

Jan 11, 2015 21:39:24 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

i think there is a notion underlying this that we are powerless to do anything other than attack Muslim majority nations, and that we have to count on Muslims to save us by saving themselves or some such rubbish.

which, of course, is absurd.

What's your plan?

first of all, we need to go back to the sort of diplomacy that we engaged in prior to the Cold War.  that would include constructive involvement that doesn't involve utter destruction of nations before we do it.  this is the kind of thing that won us friends in the Middle East and NA prior to 1970, and it would not be hard AT ALL to go back to that.  what that does is gives us ALLIES ON THE GROUND, in the COMMUNITIES that we are trying to "convert" to our perspective. 

second, we need to stop treating this like a military effort, which will invariably provoke a military response.  it needs to be light footprint and cellular.  knowledgeable people within the Pentagon have been suggesting this approach since before the Iraq War, but they are getting drowned out by folks who, as i have described it before, see every conflict as a military conflict (the folks that see all problems as a nail that they have to use a hammer for).

we generally had peace and prosperity before WW2.  we generally were friends with most folks in the world.  we now have perpetual war and lack of prosperity.  i would suggest that those things are linked, and that we were better off in the former state.  we should get back to that.

[djAdvocate]

Jan 12, 2015 10:15:01 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Jan 11, 2015 21:37:36 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

do you know what radicalized the three young men involved in the French attack?

the invasion of Iraq.

ponder that for a bit.

At least that was what they were told to say, 

conjecture.  that is what they SAID.  the timeline of their actions backs that up 100%.  you don't KNOW that they were told to say ANYTHING.  my guess is that they weren't.  Ockham's Razor.

and was pounded into their brains to believe during the radicalization process.

The one brother was taped a few years ago that it was the lack of jobs, and segregation that isolated the Muslims in France and created the radicalization process.

i didn't mean to imply that the Iraq War was the ONLY thing.  but it started the ball rolling for these guys. 

[weltschmerz]

Jan 12, 2015 10:41:07 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Hate train.

Kind of why moderate Muslims do and say nothing.

They would be attacked by the extremists for their thoughts.

You were given plenty of examples of Muslims doing something.

You just prefer to slap your hands over your ears and go "La, la, la, la...I can't hear you!"

[Value Buy]

Jan 12, 2015 13:51:24 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Jan 12, 2015 10:41:07 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Hate train.

Kind of why moderate Muslims do and say nothing.

They would be attacked by the extremists for their thoughts.

You were given plenty of examples of Muslims doing something.

You just prefer to slap your hands over your ears and go "La, la, la, la...I can't hear you!"

Well, weltz, when Canada has their next attack you can explain how all the moderate Muslims in Canada have stepped up to the plate for you and country

[NastyWoman]

VB, does this answer your question?

abc7news.com/news/muslims-in-sf-hold-vigil-for-charlie-hebdo-victims/469717/

[Tennesseer]

Jan 12, 2015 16:02:08 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

VB, does this answer your question?

abc7news.com/news/muslims-in-sf-hold-vigil-for-charlie-hebdo-victims/469717/

Of course not. He wants a billion Muslims to hold a vigil all at the same time. Nothing less.

[weltschmerz]

Jan 12, 2015 15:54:12 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Jan 12, 2015 13:51:24 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

You were given plenty of examples of Muslims doing something.

You just prefer to slap your hands over your ears and go "La, la, la, la...I can't hear you!"

Well, weltz, when Canada has their next attack you can explain how all the moderate Muslims in Canada have stepped up to the plate for you and country

Muslims HAVE stepped up to the plate for me and country.

how do you suggest Muslims stop lone wolf attacks? How? Let's hear your solutions.

[Deleted]

Moroccan-born mayor of Rotterdam tells fellow Muslims who do not appreciate the 'freedoms' of living in the West to 'pack your bags and f*** off' on live TV

Ahmed Aboutaleb, who arrived in the Netherlands aged 15, spoke out in the wake of the Charlie Hebdo attack in Paris last week.

Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2907941/Moroccan-born-mayor-Rotterdam-tells-fellow-Muslims-not-appreciate-freedoms-living-West-pack-bags-f-live-TV.html#ixzz3Oj1JnDpB
Follow us: @mailonline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

[Value Buy]

Jan 13, 2015 12:52:59 GMT -5 @xmascookie said:

Moroccan-born mayor of Rotterdam tells fellow Muslims who do not appreciate the 'freedoms' of living in the West to 'pack your bags and f*** off' on live TV

Ahmed Aboutaleb, who arrived in the Netherlands aged 15, spoke out in the wake of the Charlie Hebdo attack in Paris last week.

Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2907941/Moroccan-born-mayor-Rotterdam-tells-fellow-Muslims-not-appreciate-freedoms-living-West-pack-bags-f-live-TV.html#ixzz3Oj1JnDpB
Follow us: @mailonline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Attitude like this is what has to break out all over the world to make a difference.

[zibazinski]

All you have to do is look at France and see what happens to a country that doesn't protect it's own borders. The Netherlands catches flak because they won't let infestation into their country. But they are smart and they are right.

[djAdvocate]

Jan 13, 2015 19:28:42 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

All you have to do is look at France and see what happens to a country that doesn't protect it's own borders. The Netherlands catches flak because they won't let infestation into their country. But they are smart and they are right.

what are you talking about?  what infestation?

[djAdvocate]

Jan 13, 2015 19:23:48 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Jan 13, 2015 12:52:59 GMT -5 @xmascookie said:

Moroccan-born mayor of Rotterdam tells fellow Muslims who do not appreciate the 'freedoms' of living in the West to 'pack your bags and f*** off' on live TV

Ahmed Aboutaleb, who arrived in the Netherlands aged 15, spoke out in the wake of the Charlie Hebdo attack in Paris last week.

Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2907941/Moroccan-born-mayor-Rotterdam-tells-fellow-Muslims-not-appreciate-freedoms-living-West-pack-bags-f-live-TV.html#ixzz3Oj1JnDpB
Follow us: @mailonline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Attitude like this is what has to break out all over the world to make a difference.

meaningless drivel like that will do nothing.

for example, if i were a terrorist, i might appreciate our lax gun laws and immigration standards. 

USA!!USA!!!!

[NastyWoman]

Jan 13, 2015 19:28:42 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

All you have to do is look at France and see what happens to a country that doesn't protect it's own borders. The Netherlands catches flak because they won't let infestation into their country. But they are smart and they are right.

HUHHH? What'd I miss?  There are open borders in Europe, meaning there is about just as much border control between France and Belgium as there is between California and Oregon (or pick whatever states you like)

I like to pretend I am smart and I know I am right (at least some of the time) but this girl from the land of cheese and tulips does not recognize where this statement comes from

[djAdvocate]

Jan 14, 2015 21:25:12 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

Jan 13, 2015 19:28:42 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

All you have to do is look at France and see what happens to a country that doesn't protect it's own borders. The Netherlands catches flak because they won't let infestation into their country. But they are smart and they are right.

HUHHH? What'd I miss?  There are open borders in Europe, meaning there is about just as much border control between France and Belgium as there is between California and Oregon (or pick whatever states you like)

I like to pretend I am smart and I know I am right (at least some of the time) but this girl from the land of cheese and tulips does not recognize where this statement comes from

glad to see i was not the only one utterly baffled by this remark.

[weltschmerz]

Jan 14, 2015 21:25:12 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

Jan 13, 2015 19:28:42 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

All you have to do is look at France and see what happens to a country that doesn't protect it's own borders. The Netherlands catches flak because they won't let infestation into their country. But they are smart and they are right.

HUHHH? What'd I miss?  There are open borders in Europe, meaning there is about just as much border control between France and Belgium as there is between California and Oregon (or pick whatever states you like)

I like to pretend I am smart and I know I am right (at least some of the time) but this girl from the land of cheese and tulips does not recognize where this statement comes from

This girl from the land of poutine and polar bears doesn't recognize it, either.  I guess the poster never heard of the European Union.

[weltschmerz]

Never heard of the Schengen Agreement, Zib?

It's only 10 years old, so maybe not. I guess the right was too busy piling on that dreadful Obama family to pay any attention to what's going on in the rest of the world.

[djAdvocate]

Jan 14, 2015 21:53:08 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Jan 14, 2015 21:25:12 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

HUHHH? What'd I miss?  There are open borders in Europe, meaning there is about just as much border control between France and Belgium as there is between California and Oregon (or pick whatever states you like)

I like to pretend I am smart and I know I am right (at least some of the time) but this girl from the land of cheese and tulips does not recognize where this statement comes from

This girl from the land of poutine and polar bears doesn't recognize it, either.  I guess the poster never heard of the European Union

it is no harder to cross between the border of some countries than it is to pass between states.