raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Sept 2, 2014 10:33:31 GMT -5
My mom occasionally brought things to me at school that I had forgotten. I specifically remember her bringing me my recorder in 4th grade. She told me that some people felt that you shouldnt bail your kids out like that, but she felt that everyone messes up sometimes and if she could help, she would. She wouldn't have left work to bring that to me, but driving 3 blocks from home she was willing to do. I still get a lot of help from my parents, but not because I can't make it without them. It's because we love and respect each other. I help them out too.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 2, 2014 10:36:24 GMT -5
Years ago, a speaker came to a PTA meeting and said if you are going to be there for your kids the rest of their lives, keep doing everything for them. I never forgot it. DS of all people kept forgetting his books at school or something he needed until after we were home. I'd run him back to get them. Finally, I'd had it and told him to ride his bike back and fetch it himself. By that time no crossing guards and busy streets. But he wasnt a baby and there were lights. I stressed the entire time. He was also pretty upset himself at the idea. He did it and never forgot anything he needed again. It does work. Doing for and enabling cripples your child's growth. Both of mine like to rag on me about how they don't know how to do laundry because I wouldnt let them touch the laundry. Guilty as charged. Nobody's perfect.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 2, 2014 10:37:46 GMT -5
Of course both my kids also say they'll never put me in a nursing home. I told them when I start pooping in their closets, they'll change their kids pretty fast!!
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 2, 2014 10:38:13 GMT -5
Change their minds, I mean.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Sept 2, 2014 10:42:05 GMT -5
Of course I also think it is a fallacy to assume that everyone is going to succeed.
You don't have to be a Fortune 500 CEO to clothe/house/feed yourself adequately without help from Mommy and Daddy.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 2, 2014 10:44:39 GMT -5
No kidding. DF employs a general mechanic. He's no brain surgeon and he learned a lot on the job but he works hard and he supports a wife and 3 kids. They don't live like church nice, either. Do they vacation in the caymans? No, but with 3 kids, not many people do!!
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Sept 2, 2014 10:47:50 GMT -5
My brother certainly didn't succeed in a way that my parents had hoped he had. But he has a job, a girlfriend, an apartment and is a good guy. They have come to terms with his less than professionally successful lifestyle.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Sept 2, 2014 10:48:43 GMT -5
My mom occasionally brought things to me at school that I had forgotten. I specifically remember her bringing me my recorder in 4th grade. She told me that some people felt that you shouldnt bail your kids out like that, but she felt that everyone messes up sometimes and if she could help, she would. She wouldn't have left work to bring that to me, but driving 3 blocks from home she was willing to do. I still get a lot of help from my parents, but not because I can't make it without them. It's because we love and respect each other. I help them out too. I do think this is also a reasonable approach. It really depends on the kind of dynamic you have in your particular family. I'm not going to say I'll never bail out my daughter. Frankly, for me it would depend heavily on her attitude about the forgetting. If Babybird texted something like, "Mom, I need my recorder for my 10am class!!!!! How soon can you be here?" at 9:45, I'd almost certainly tell her tough luck. If she texted "Mom, are you still at home? I just realized I forgot my recorder and I need it for my third period class today. Could you please bring it to the school on your way to work?" at 7:50 and especially if she managed to catch me before I left the house, I would probably be willing to work with her. Basically, acting like my time is unimportant and expecting me to cover her ass at a moment's notice is not going to get her anywhere good. Showing respect for my time, not automatically expecting me to drop everything to help her, being willing to accept the consequences if I can't help = much better probability that I'll help her. As an adult, my parents and I have this kind of relationship. Like you, we help each other out pretty much upon request. But we never, EVER make demands of each other. If I need a ride from work because my car is in the shop, I work it out with my mom in advance and I'm completely willing to make other arrangements if it's not convenient for her to help me that day. Really, respect and politeness go a long way. For me, they both carry a lot of weight.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Sept 2, 2014 11:08:35 GMT -5
I like natural consequences, but I look at behavior as a whole or patterns that are developing rather than every single situation as a teachable moment. Failure to launch imo frequently has underlying issues. My parents have supported my sister for 15 years at least. She works, she pays her own bills, but my parents cover housing. I don't think I would handle the situation the same way they have, but I know that they were looking at helping her or burying her and I'm not going to judge my mom for picking the former. It sucks to still be parenting a 43 year old, but my sister also helps any of us in every way she can (brought popsicles and ginger ale to me at 10pm last friday when I was knee deep in vomiting kids) so they do what they can for her and she's come farther than anyone could have believed. Maybe by 50 she'll be self sufficient. Sent from my ADR6410LVW using proboards
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Sept 2, 2014 11:19:59 GMT -5
What Firebird posted about my mom/my brother is true (although my brother is now pretty much launched, thankfully). What she posted about me always making sure I have everything before I leave the house went completely out the window with pregnancy/mommy brain. Today I forgot my wallet... I'm pretty sure it's still in the diaper bag from when we took DD to a birthday party Sunday. Luckily I brought my lunch and don't need to buy gas to get home. Back on topic, IMO my brother would have benefited more from the "tough love" approach, whereas my sister and I were responsible enough that it probably wouldn't have made much difference if we had things brought to school for us when we forgot them. My brother was finally forced into growing up after my mom was no longer financially able to bail him out. It was a lesson that could have been learned 10 years ago, and would've been a lot cheaper for everyone involved. My beef has always been with the huge swings in treatment/expected responsibility between the oldest and youngest siblings in my family.
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justme
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Post by justme on Sept 2, 2014 11:23:44 GMT -5
Of course both my kids also say they'll never put me in a nursing home. I told them when I start pooping in their closets, they'll change their kids pretty fast!! Apparently they haven't discovered the joy of threatening their parents with the crappy nursing home whenever they irritate you.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 2, 2014 11:26:36 GMT -5
It'll come, I'm sure. DS already threatens to use my ashes in the kitty litter box.
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swasat
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Post by swasat on Sept 2, 2014 11:29:54 GMT -5
I guess I am a hard ass parent. I had no problems on my 3rd grader missing a school field trip because he "forgot" to give the permission slip to sign. Got too busy playing outside is more like it I also had zero issues with DD missing out on a birthday party because she continued to misbehave even after 4 warnings and being told she won't be sent to the party. I simply called the parent of the birthday girl and explained. No issues there.
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achelois
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Post by achelois on Sept 2, 2014 12:04:03 GMT -5
It'll come, I'm sure. DS already threatens to use my ashes in the kitty litter box. I tell my kids to spread my ashes on the cucumbers to discourage the bugs.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Sept 2, 2014 12:53:25 GMT -5
I don't know really.
No way I'd do that. But then again I'm ruthless enough to kick people out, even grandkids. In a way, it's their own fault for enabling such behavior.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Sept 2, 2014 13:57:47 GMT -5
I wouldn't willingly support someone who was taking advantage of me. I hope to be involved with my grandkids and would hope that I could take them in if I felt my child was/would take advantage.
But helping my kids if they work hard and if (god forbid) they have health/mental issues that make self sufficiency nearly possible, then I will help them as much as I am able.
Hopefully won't be an issue. At this point their second favorite game is "going to work" so hopefully that means I'm a good influence and not that they feel abandoned by me.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Sept 2, 2014 15:27:16 GMT -5
I think some of it is personality, some of it is the crowd they hang with, some of it is parenting.
My older sister married a deadbeat alcoholic, and she ended up figuring out how to get on disability by age 50 and spent the rest of her life trying to figure out how to get the government and other people to give her money. Not the way she was raised, but an attitude she learned from DH.
The two middle siblings were fine, launched and stayed launched, supported ourselves and our families, never asked our parents for anything.
But the baby of the family was spoiled by our mom, and that has followed through into adult hood with her. She hates to work, and was a SAHM for years, getting Mom to pay for 'extras' for the kids, including a summer rental at the beach. Mom helped pay for her wedding, furnished her first apartment, furnished the nurseries, paid for sports and summer camps, etc. Poor parenting on my mom's part.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 2, 2014 15:33:39 GMT -5
I'm calling it quits in January for DD. I said I'd support her through school. School will be over by then. Good luck to her but I'm done. I might help out again if she gets into PA school. But I'm not sure that's going to happen. Hopefully she goes into nursing so at least makes good money. But not for me to stress or worry over.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Sept 2, 2014 17:09:57 GMT -5
...:::"You don't have to be a Fortune 500 CEO to clothe/house/feed yourself adequately without help from Mommy and Daddy.":::... Firebird this is kind of what I'm getting at -- a dig at the "you get a trophy just for showing up" set. Not everyone is GOING to be a CEO, or have a professional job or whatever. I'm sure no parent wants their child to suffer hardship, but at the same time, not everyone will finish the race in first place. And there is enough anecdotal/first hand testimony here to prove that plenty of kids don't end up finishing college (if they even go) or stay out of trouble with the law. ...:::"Basically, acting like my time is unimportant and expecting me to cover her ass at a moment's notice is not going to get her anywhere good.":::... Well said. I can only imagine how a parent feels watching his/her child make a demand. The child probably wouldn't do so if he/she didn't think it would succeed. I'm sure we've all found ourselves facing someone thinking "my goodness... did he/she actually just demand that?!?!!?" Some people you can tell they are having an off day. Others think nothing of it, because it seems to have served them well. ETA: I laughed out loud at "pooping in the closet".
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Sept 2, 2014 17:14:36 GMT -5
I'm sure we've all found ourselves facing someone thinking "my goodness... did he/she actually just demand that?!?!!?" Some people you can tell they are having an off day. Others think nothing of it, because it seems to have served them well.
Five times just today! So yeah That's why the older I get, the more I value politeness and manners. Sounds old fashioned (and I certainly plan to teach Babybird that there's a point where being nice isn't the answer anymore) but I'm so sick of people being as rude as they feel like and getting results anyhow because no one wants to deal with them.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 2, 2014 17:25:14 GMT -5
...:::"You don't have to be a Fortune 500 CEO to clothe/house/feed yourself adequately without help from Mommy and Daddy.":::... Firebird this is kind of what I'm getting at -- a dig at the "you get a trophy just for showing up" set. Not everyone is GOING to be a CEO, or have a professional job or whatever. I'm sure no parent wants their child to suffer hardship, but at the same time, not everyone will finish the race in first place. And there is enough anecdotal/first hand testimony here to prove that plenty of kids don't end up finishing college (if they even go) or stay out of trouble with the law. ...:::"Basically, acting like my time is unimportant and expecting me to cover her ass at a moment's notice is not going to get her anywhere good.":::... Well said. I can only imagine how a parent feels watching his/her child make a demand. The child probably wouldn't do so if he/she didn't think it would succeed. I'm sure we've all found ourselves facing someone thinking "my goodness... did he/she actually just demand that?!?!!?" Some people you can tell they are having an off day. Others think nothing of it, because it seems to have served them well. ETA: I laughed out loud at "pooping in the closet". It happened to my grandpa. Not pretty.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Sept 2, 2014 17:30:27 GMT -5
...:::"It happened to my grandpa. Not pretty.":::...
I suspect it wouldn't be. This is in no way intended to diminish the heart wrenching pain of watching a loved one's mind deteriorate.
But the phrase "pooping in the closet" is still kind of funny.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 2, 2014 17:35:48 GMT -5
True. I guess he thought it was the bathroom.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2014 19:15:38 GMT -5
Do parents feel like failures when their adult children won't live independently?
I would feel like a failure, but only to an extent. To the extent if I had not taught my children the best I possibly could (according to mine, and their God given abilities) to become self efficient. If flipping burgers was all any one of my children were mentally capable of doing, so be that, but that it would be. There comes a time in adult children lives, when their parent's failures becomes an invalid excuse for their lack of being responsible.
I will always help my children for any valid reason if I can.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2014 19:18:44 GMT -5
Oh. I forgot to add one more thing. If my child was not mentally stable (enough) to live on their own, yet stable enough for employment, I would rather have them closer to me. Like in my home. And working.
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Sept 2, 2014 19:24:13 GMT -5
Firebird, I know you were just using mine as a example, but remember the rest of my post: My parents only did it when there was a baby involved. To elaborate: My sister lived on her own in Reno (about eight driving hours from where we live) from age 17 (week before she actually turned 17) until 23 when she got pregnant. My parents paid a few bills for her including some medical bills (which now with the ACA would have been covered under their insurance anyway). It was when there was a grandbaby involved that they stepped up the housing subsidary. My parents weren't going to allow their grandchild to live in abject poverty. They couldn't trust my sister to actually properly house and feed the kid by just sending my sister money. So, she came home and moved back in with my parents. She and my mother (they're exactly alike) couldn't get along. My dad decided to by a house for her to live in. He got the tax write off and his grandbaby was in a safe place. Full disclaimer: the house they bought for my sister was mine. It was my first house. I had purchased my second house and left XH with the first one. He refused to pay for it. I rented it out for awhile, but it was too overwhelming for me at the time. So, my parents bought it from me. They really did also help me out while helping out my sister.
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