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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2014 18:46:19 GMT -5
Do parents feel like failures when their adult children won't live independently? I learned some family friends that are retired had to buy a house for their daughter to live in with her children. Otherwise, daughter would have had to move in with them. Now these retired people are paying utilities, property taxes, and insurance on their "second" home. Daughter is in her 40s and has a bachelor's degree, but just doesn't want to work. They bought the house with an IRA they had for retirement. It is sort of awkward when they visit me (the same age as their daughter) and I work and live on my own. How do you think the parents feel?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2014 19:10:52 GMT -5
I think they feel caught between a rock and a hard place. I see this kind of thing happening a lot in our area.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Aug 30, 2014 19:33:25 GMT -5
It depends. There are simply some people who will not help themselves no matter how many hand ups, hand outs, parenting, scolding, teachers, interventions, whatever. You can lead the horse but you cant make the horse drink. Ultimately it is the CHOICE of the now adult about how they want to choose to live their lives. I have given my children many opportunities. For my sons, I gave them guitar, drum , bass lessons. One of my sons played for awhile the other never tried. Now at 18, he says he wished he could play the bass. Well, it isn't too late but now the price of the lessons is on you if you choose to motivate yourself enough to play. In fact, if he really wanted to learn, he could simply go on youtube as there are tons of free lessons for literally every instrument. The real key to life is Self Discipline. Some people simply never develop it, no matter how much brow beating the parents and teachers do. And, I say, that if you are 18 and your life is a mess, then yes, maybe you can blame your parents and teachers. But, if you are 25, 35, 45, 55, 65 and your life is a mess, sorry that is on YOU and YOU own it.
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cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on Aug 30, 2014 19:47:44 GMT -5
I think is would be embarrassing for those who raised children who made bad choices and just hard for those who's children had bad luck.
My brother is 65 his daughter and grand children moved in. Daughter wasn't college material so got a photography degree from Art Institute years ago. After 17-18 years of marriage and being housewife for 15 her husband dumped her. She got a job but making now 15 an hour but getting raises. She sold the house she got in the divorce will have a little money to start over. They took her in for the next year or so until she finds a house she wants to buy so she can save a year of rent and utilities. She was launched but didn't stay launched so now in retirement they have daughter and grand daughter with grandson away at college. My brother has been helping her since her divorce with fixing her house to live in then fixing it to sell, he is tired. They are mostly angry with her ex not her and I am sure they think they were excellent parents so no reflection on them. She will be ok, her brother has written her a budget and she is selling off things like her vacation property to stop bills and get cash. At least they know not to support another adult and she will be living on her own soon enough within her means.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2014 20:02:31 GMT -5
It depends. There are simply some people who will not help themselves no matter how many hand ups, hand outs, parenting, scolding, teachers, interventions, whatever. You can lead the horse but you cant make the horse drink. Ultimately it is the CHOICE of the now adult about how they want to choose to live their lives. I have given my children many opportunities. For my sons, I gave them guitar, drum , bass lessons. One of my sons played for awhile the other never tried. Now at 18, he says he wished he could play the bass. Well, it isn't too late but now the price of the lessons is on you if you choose to motivate yourself enough to play. In fact, if he really wanted to learn, he could simply go on youtube as there are tons of free lessons for literally every instrument. The real key to life is Self Discipline. Some people simply never develop it, no matter how much brow beating the parents and teachers do. And, I say, that if you are 18 and your life is a mess, then yes, maybe you can blame your parents and teachers. But, if you are 25, 35, 45, 55, 65 and your life is a mess, sorry that is on YOU and YOU own it. How is it that kids from the same family can be so different when it comes to motivation? I have 4 siblings, all raised the same way, and we are all as different as night and day when it comes to motivation.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Aug 30, 2014 20:25:40 GMT -5
Nature is a huge part. Nurture isn't the only thing. Kids are born with their individual personalities.
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Aug 30, 2014 20:33:47 GMT -5
We are dealing with this. Son #2 doesn't want to work, yet he wants to live the same lifestyle DH and I do. We started gradually cutting him off when he turned 20; when he turned 22, he got mad at us and left.
DH believes there is some type of parenting failure there. I simply believe it's a personality difference. Son #1 was raised basically the same way and is just fine.
Same with my two sisters and me. Two of us are fine. The middle one, my parents had to buy a house for--just as described in the OP. However, my middle sister won't even get a college degree because she's so disagreeable. However, my dad couldn't deal with having a toddler in the house. It was worth the money to him to support my sister so his grandchild was still okay without them living with him.
My boss fully supports two of his three children. He mildly supports the third. At some point when it's all of them, is that actually a parenting failure?
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gacpa
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Post by gacpa on Aug 31, 2014 1:39:38 GMT -5
I bet the grandparents are helping their daughter for the sake of the grandchildren. I have seen that a lot.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Aug 31, 2014 7:13:19 GMT -5
Unfortunately, grandkids become the ultimate pawns of neer do well parents.
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Aug 31, 2014 8:38:06 GMT -5
I bet the grandparents are helping their daughter for the sake of the grandchildren. I have seen that a lot. That is the case for my aunt, she cannot cut off her son because her grand babies will suffer... Yet that doesn't motivate the son to do any better. Knowing mommy will always bail him out actually make it easier for him to slack off!
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 31, 2014 9:58:41 GMT -5
I'd offer to take the babies, the adults, never. I've seen too many of my friends USED for the sake of their grandchildren.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 31, 2014 10:00:01 GMT -5
I MIGHT pay for private school for grandchildren if mom was only able to afford home in bad school district or pay partial rent for place in better area.
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Aug 31, 2014 10:42:13 GMT -5
I'd have mine back in a heart beat if they got in to trouble.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Aug 31, 2014 10:48:26 GMT -5
I often want to ask my ILs about that -how does it feel to have a daughter that is not a capable adult. But then I remember that they have spent their entire lives mooching off everyone and everything. For me - YES, I would feel like a great failure
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Aug 31, 2014 10:50:57 GMT -5
I think a lot depends on the mindset of the parent. As was said, in an "I led them to water, they just didn't drink" situation, a parent might be able to wash his/her hands. But its probably seldom that simple or straightforward.
Of course I also think it is a fallacy to assume that everyone is going to succeed.
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cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on Aug 31, 2014 10:51:33 GMT -5
I'd offer to take the babies, the adults, never. I've seen too many of my friends USED for the sake of their grandchildren. My friend did this her niece called saying she was homeless 200 miles away. She told the young women she could stay with them if she went to beauty college and didn't party. She stopped going to school and stayed out late every night, was told leave but leave the 2 year old daughter with them. When I met her the little girl was 11 still with them. Little girl's older brother was taken by the grandmother. The mother shows up when the girl has a dance recital and brags that is her daughter. Little girl asked to be adopted. Mother finds partying more important than living indoors and supporting her children, that is parenting fail.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2014 11:01:56 GMT -5
Could it be that we are seeing more and more dependent adults because they were raised by parents who parented out of guilt, for whatever reason.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Aug 31, 2014 11:05:03 GMT -5
It depends. There are simply some people who will not help themselves no matter how many hand ups, hand outs, parenting, scolding, teachers, interventions, whatever. You can lead the horse but you cant make the horse drink. Ultimately it is the CHOICE of the now adult about how they want to choose to live their lives. I have given my children many opportunities. For my sons, I gave them guitar, drum , bass lessons. One of my sons played for awhile the other never tried. Now at 18, he says he wished he could play the bass. Well, it isn't too late but now the price of the lessons is on you if you choose to motivate yourself enough to play. In fact, if he really wanted to learn, he could simply go on youtube as there are tons of free lessons for literally every instrument. The real key to life is Self Discipline. Some people simply never develop it, no matter how much brow beating the parents and teachers do. And, I say, that if you are 18 and your life is a mess, then yes, maybe you can blame your parents and teachers. But, if you are 25, 35, 45, 55, 65 and your life is a mess, sorry that is on YOU and YOU own it. As a parent of 3 kids that terrifies me
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Aug 31, 2014 11:11:31 GMT -5
I have 3 kids. My oldest son was always the "handful" if you will. As soon as he could walk, he began to run. So much so, that I had to put one of those child leashes on him to take him anywhere because he would have darted into traffic. I had to lock the doors from the inside because he would unlock them and take off running. I attached hook and eye locks to the TOP of the door. One day, he got a chair and a yardstick and was about to pop the lock. DH and I are both college graduates. We are both professionals. We both were the salutatorians of our classes. We value education. But, he just struggled all through school. We had parent teacher conferences, testing, met with Principals. We tried grounding, punishment, rewarding, whatever. When he was 14, he started getting into some minor trouble at school (no biggie, just stuff like forgetting his gym clothes and talking in class, not turning in work, etc). We poked, cajoled, prodded. We took away EVERY electronic thing that could be twittered, texted, viewed, etc. We told him that he was going to "live Amish" this year, lol. We in spite of EVERYTHING we did, we got the same results. He slid by. He slid through. Last year, he made it. He graduated. Not with a great average but he got it done. And, he didn't get involved in the wrong crowd and didn't get into the drug scene, etc. So, I am very pleased that he made it. The reality is that not every child is an Academic. Not every kid is going to fit into the same box. I love him for who he is and we didn't try to make him into our image but accept him for who he is. We looked at colleges and technical schools and if he would have showed an iota of interest in that direction, we absolutely would have given him a shot. He did take the test and got accepted into a 2 yr nursing program. However, he wants to do emergency medicine. And, he is a strapping young man, very mechanically skilled and I think a great fit for that so right now he has just completed his EMT training and hopes to become a paramedic. So, he is on a path. Not the traditional, everyone goes to a 4 yr college path. But a start. ANd, my fear as a parent is that he has to get TRACTION in life and get started because it is far too easy to fall by the way side. So, DH and I keep encouraging him and hopefully this is a start on a good path.
For my other two, they are both stellar students. My younger son is a JR and plans to pursue engineering. DD is in 7th and in advanced placement classes and loves math and likes to study so college seems the most likely option for them.
But, as long as my kids are self supporting , I will be very proud of them. I don't care if they are a fry cooks or brain surgeons. Making a contribution, being a good person and supporting yourself is what matters.
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Aug 31, 2014 11:27:47 GMT -5
I let my kids go bit by bit. Gave them more responsibility as they got older...gave them advice so they could make good choices. Talked them through decisions and supported them when it didn't go to plan. I've imparted everything I know to help them make a success of their lives....and let them go.
I don't bother them ...but...I'm a phone call away....and whilst there is breath in my body... I always will be.
They are my investment. I've put years of effort into them and I love them more than anything.
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gacpa
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Post by gacpa on Aug 31, 2014 11:28:53 GMT -5
I could not have said that better myself, Shooby. Kudos to you.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Aug 31, 2014 11:32:10 GMT -5
One time, my son was out of lunch money. For 2 days, I had tried handing him a check and he left it laying on the table. Well, then later in that week, with the check still laying on the table, I got a call. "Mom, I have no lunch money and I can't get lunch". Well, I said, oh well, I gave you money 2 days ago and it is still here on the table, soooo guess you will just have be hungry until you get home. Piss poor planning on your part is not a 911 emergency on my part! lol
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Aug 31, 2014 11:32:34 GMT -5
He was a JR or Sr btw not elementary.
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cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on Aug 31, 2014 13:04:11 GMT -5
One time, my son was out of lunch money. For 2 days, I had tried handing him a check and he left it laying on the table. Well, then later in that week, with the check still laying on the table, I got a call. "Mom, I have no lunch money and I can't get lunch". Well, I said, oh well, I gave you money 2 days ago and it is still here on the table, soooo guess you will just have be hungry until you get home. Piss poor planning on your part is not a 911 emergency on my part! lol Learning from mistakes is what some parents don't allow, easier to learn from hunger a few hours than homeless later. My friend and I took her kids to a carnival in a small town and she let them bring money from piggy banks. They were wasting their money picking up ducks with numbers on the bottom for prizes. The prizes were worth less than the cost of the contest so everyone was a winner. She asked me if she should stop them but I told her it was a cheap lesson to go home with a hand full of junk and have your piggy bank empty.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2014 13:26:48 GMT -5
My siblings and I are all independent. My parents hear of others having to support their adult children and are, I like to believe, glad they don't have to support us (even though they could afford it). But, my parents would never tell us they are proud. My dad's friend has a Christmas wreath making business. My dad asked him why he didn't go south last winter. He told Dad he couldn't leave the business because he has two useless sons and one useless grandson. This guy is pushing 80 and he cannot even trust his kids to run the business. Sad.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Aug 31, 2014 13:53:18 GMT -5
Do parents feel like failures when their adult children won't live independently? I learned some family friends that are retired had to buy a house for their daughter to live in with her children. Otherwise, daughter would have had to move in with them. Now these retired people are paying utilities, property taxes, and insurance on their "second" home. Daughter is in her 40s and has a bachelor's degree, but just doesn't want to work. They bought the house with an IRA they had for retirement. It is sort of awkward when they visit me (the same age as their daughter) and I work and live on my own. How do you think the parents feel? It's a double failure. The parents for giving in, and the forty-something daughter for sitting on her lazy ass, and probably using her kids as bait to make sure her parents gave in. Now their retirement money is gone, the daughter is living in a house they bought, and they are paying taxes, insurance and utilities? WTF? Since the daughter does not work, where does the money for food and clothing and all the other things kids need come from? "Doesn't want to work" indeed. If I'd said that to my folks, my dad would have knocked my butt into the next century. And disowned me.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2014 14:19:25 GMT -5
My siblings and I are all independent. My parents hear of others having to support their adult children and are, I like to believe, glad they don't have to support us (even though they could afford it). But, my parents would never tell us they are proud. My dad's friend has a Christmas wreath making business. My dad asked him why he didn't go south last winter. He told Dad he couldn't leave the business because he has two useless sons and one useless grandson. This guy is pushing 80 and he cannot even trust his kids to run the business. Sad. And what will happen to this bunch when old dad goes to meet his maker?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2014 14:30:44 GMT -5
Part of it really is nature- my Ex thought everything should fall into his lap because he was a brilliant chemist (which he was, but that was no guarantee of anything else). His sister worked her rear end off, took a huge risk opening a business with her husband and nearly went to work as a waitress to help pay the bills till the business turned around. Now their grandchildren won't have to work. (I bet they will, though- their son, bless him, worked for a few years out of college and just got a new job after finishing an MBA at Georgetown.) My Ex was always resentful that he couldn't live like his sister. Same parents. Different outcomes.
My BIL (sister's husband) was raised in an abusive home and wanted the best for his 3 daughters. In retrospect, I think he rescued them from bad decisions too many times- paying off credit card debt, picking up the vet bill when one of them had a dog she couldn't afford to treat, etc. They had a hard time with 2 out of the 3 of them and even the 3rd one had to go back to school to study Nursing when (surprise, surprise) it turned out she couldn't support herself with a BA in Psych. I think they paid for that, too. One had a baby at 19 with a guy my sister described as "a sweet little guy with the brains of a paramecium". They're wonderful young women now, with good husbands and children they love, but it was a long road. I really think you need to let kids learn the consequences of bad decisions early, unless the consequences are fatal or otherwise dangerous. Otherwise, you end up bailing them out of bigger and more expensive mistakes.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Aug 31, 2014 14:42:26 GMT -5
I let my kids go bit by bit. Gave them more responsibility as they got older...gave them advice so they could make good choices. Talked them through decisions and supported them when it didn't go to plan. I've imparted everything I know to help them make a success of their lives....and let them go. I don't bother them ...but...I'm a phone call away....and whilst there is breath in my body... I always will be. This is my position as well. But this is not really a fair statement to others without adding that both my sons are very independent, definitely "launched" adults. Should they have to come home to live with me you can bet your petootie that they will have tried everything they can think of already. Now to add to this, and knowing that things may change over time, I also believe they will be there for each other once I am no longer around.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2014 15:04:52 GMT -5
One time, my son was out of lunch money. For 2 days, I had tried handing him a check and he left it laying on the table. Well, then later in that week, with the check still laying on the table, I got a call. "Mom, I have no lunch money and I can't get lunch". Well, I said, oh well, I gave you money 2 days ago and it is still here on the table, soooo guess you will just have be hungry until you get home. Piss poor planning on your part is not a 911 emergency on my part! lol Yes! This is the way to parent. The problem is that so many of us can't help but feel the need to always be the safety net for our kids. No one wants to see their child suffer, but without the suffering lessons, we end up with grown children living in our basements. Shooby, how hard it must have been for you, knowing your child had gone without his lunch. I admire you for having the backbone to do it.
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