Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Jul 21, 2014 14:38:20 GMT -5
I agree that one should comply. But aren't police trained to quell difficult situations? I will absolutely support the police and give them the benefit of the doubt in most cases. But this seems to have gotten out of hand. I haven't pronounced anyone guilty and of course they must investigate. But if theycrossed lines then they need to be accountable.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Jul 21, 2014 14:46:05 GMT -5
So if you resist arrest then cops are allowed to kill you?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 21, 2014 15:06:10 GMT -5
Frankly, yes.
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jkapp
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Post by jkapp on Jul 21, 2014 15:23:45 GMT -5
So if you resist arrest then cops are allowed to kill you? No, but they are allowed to use force...keep resisting, and that force will also continue to escalate. Officers offer little latitude (none actually) when it comes to someone resisting arrest. there are too many incidents in the past where a little resistance quickly turned into a dead police officer...that's why they are trained to quickly pacify a resisting suspect with as much force as needed. Unfortunately, when adrenaline is flowing, that force can be overdone. Yet an officer is usually found innocent of any wrongdoing when arresting a resisting suspect. We just had a case in Green Bay where an officer was videotaped punching a suspect in the face during an arrest. It was a huge deal in the state because of the video. However, after investigating, using an alternate video with a different angle, the officer was cleared of wrongdoing because it showed the suspect grasping the officer's arm and not letting go - a big no-no when getting arrested.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jul 21, 2014 15:41:07 GMT -5
I didn't see him fighting. No, but he was arguing and resisting. When the police tell you to put your hands behind your back, etc, it is best to comply. If you feel it is a wrongful arrest, there will be plenty of time to press charges or sue afterwards. the police don't tend to change their minds once they've committed to putting someone in handcuffs...why people insist on resisting is beyond me? Get ready for a 4 page argument with Shooby.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jul 21, 2014 15:59:02 GMT -5
I agree that one should comply. But aren't police trained to quell difficult situations? I will absolutely support the police and give them the benefit of the doubt in most cases. But this seems to have gotten out of hand. I haven't pronounced anyone guilty and of course they must investigate. But if theycrossed lines then they need to be accountable. You haven't pronounced anyone guilty? Really?
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Jul 21, 2014 16:00:32 GMT -5
Only you Tenne!
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ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Jul 21, 2014 17:06:35 GMT -5
Some of the headline titles related to this indicent are are also misleading and seem to be worded in such a way as to make the Police look bad.
They're using wording like "deadly choke-hold" - instead of wording that the choke-hold was applied in order to restrain the suspect. He hasn't been stripped of his duties
The officer is on desk duty pending the outcome and investigation.
Another misleading phrase is the description of the dead man - he's being described as a "gentle giant" - who's to say he was acting in a gentle manner when the officers were attempting to take him in - before they even began taking him to the ground to try and place him the handcuffs?
He as a very large man ( 335 lb) - he could have been putting up quite a bit of resistance.
It also states from various sources, that the cause of his death has yet to be determined by medical examiners.
Given his size, if he was putting up a struggle, he could have had a heart attack, for all we know at this time.
It's a bit premature to be putting the blame of his death on the officer(s).
I for one, have great respect for the men & women in Law Enforcement who put their lives on the line every day - - but far too many people have a low opinion or very little respect for the police - then when something like this happens, they (the Police) are the first to get the bad rap.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jul 21, 2014 17:10:32 GMT -5
Oh no you didn't, ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ! You went there. Now this thread will have more posts than the Trayvon Martin thread and all the posts will be by Shooby.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 21, 2014 17:13:58 GMT -5
No different than one poster who starts and then comments on all his posts because no one else will.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2014 18:28:46 GMT -5
I watched the video, and... I hate to burst anyone's bubble... but that wasn't a "choke hold". That was media and public sensationalism of what LOOKS LIKE a "choke hold", but in fact is a takedown procedure that doesn't even affect the windpipe if done properly by trained people (something the police usually are).
*In case anyone is curious how I know... I used to drive an Ambulance and we were on "standby" (unless some other emergency call came in) during some training exercises at the local PD... one of those training exercises was "takedowns"... including that one. We weren't on standby for choking, we were on standby for broken arms/legs, fractures & dislocations that are the usual issues (if there are any issues) during that type of exercise.
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ZaireinHD
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Post by ZaireinHD on Jul 21, 2014 19:12:08 GMT -5
I'm so glad there is a video! agreeing with the guy interviewed at the scene. without the video - 100% different story IF it would have came up on the news.
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ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Jul 21, 2014 19:31:15 GMT -5
One of the more recent articles I've read has now stated that this man was 400 lb! AND asthmatic - makes me think even more that the take-down/choke-hold was probably unlikely the cause of death - but keep blaming law enforcement.
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ZaireinHD
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Post by ZaireinHD on Jul 21, 2014 19:40:26 GMT -5
of course keep blaming law enforcement - I was certain the entire time it was not the choke hold that killed him. dude was excited from the start - that was the start of his death. had he said ok what ever police take me in - he would be alive now.
but having police put their foot on a guys face! while other police SEVERAL police with their knee on the back! of course this guy could breath with this cop pushing his weight on his head into the ground! 3 or 4 other cops on his back - pushing his over-sized gut unto the ground
but no - cops are too excited - not paying any attention to what they were doing and this guy last words I CAN'T BREATH!
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ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Jul 21, 2014 19:55:06 GMT -5
He was resisting arrest - what's so hard to understand? AND he was to big for one officer to restrain - if he'd not put up a struggle to begin with, he would have been taken in quietly and without incident.
He was under suspicion of selling untaxed (bootleg) cigarettes - and also had been previously arrested on the same charges - as well as marijuana possession.
He was also extremely overweight (latest report, 400lb) AND asthmatic - among other health issues according the the quotes I posted above.
But keep blaming the police, Zaire - it was his own actions (resisting) that caused the police to attempt taking him down in order to restrain him. They were doing their job.
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damnotagain
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Post by damnotagain on Jul 21, 2014 19:55:57 GMT -5
Omg a large black man better run! Guilty of smoking weed and selling boot leg cigarettes ! Really ! Biggest crime ........ being black in NYC . I say choke everybody out that crosses the street against a red light . Maybe even if your tail light is out . IMO Whatever you do don't fight the police they are always right and looking for you to resist . Just give it up and do what they say. The saying "you can't fight city hall " Has never been more true.
police 100% wrong.
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Artemis Windsong
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Post by Artemis Windsong on Jul 21, 2014 19:57:58 GMT -5
A sad loss and situation.
I saw the video. When I saw how large the man was, I knew there was a breathing problem without being taken to the ground.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Jul 21, 2014 21:22:28 GMT -5
Choke holds are against policy whether it causes death or not.
It looks exactly like a choke hold- can't see the other hand but it walks and talks like a duck...
But- it was brief and I doubt it caused his death.
The big picture- someone is dead over some minor crime (maybe)- could have wrote the guy a summons.
At least they didn't storm his house and throw a stun grenade in a baby crib..........
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ZaireinHD
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Post by ZaireinHD on Jul 21, 2014 22:32:30 GMT -5
Scottish Lassie you basically did a copy and paste of my comment I will add - yes I will continue to blame those cops you will never know the feeling of having some cop pushing your face into the ground restricting your airflow you will never know the feeling of having 3 or more cops pushing into your back - your bad back restricting your airflow
" Eric Garner raised both hands in the air and, with passive defiance, told the officers not to touch him."
those cops should have stopped with such aggressive force AFTER Eric Garner was down!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2014 22:57:49 GMT -5
Scottish Lassie you basically did a copy and paste of my comment I will add - yes I will continue to blame those cops you will never know the feeling of having some cop pushing your face into the ground restricting your airflow you will never know the feeling of having 3 or more cops pushing into your back - your bad back restricting your airflow " Eric Garner raised both hands in the air and, with passive defiance, told the officers not to touch him." those cops should have stopped with such aggressive force AFTER Eric Garner was down! Wrong. Those cops should have stopped when he stopped resisting. being "down" doesn't mean "out of the fight and unable to harm one of the officers".
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ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Jul 21, 2014 23:11:55 GMT -5
I didn't basically copy/paste anything of yours. As far as you continuing to blame the cops, you always blame the cops - you (by your own admission, and posted on this board), have been stopped numerous times, fined, ticketed, gone to court, etc for all the driving infractions you've committed - or non-street legal stuff you have on your cars - illegal lights, etc.
But you're right - I WILL never know what it's like - because I won't do something to put me on the police radar to begin with - and secondly, if stopped by an officer, (which I have been for speeding ) - I'd remain calm & polite - (which I did) - and allow them to ask questions.
I have one family member (in-law) who's a police officer - I had friends married to officers, and growing up, friends whose dads were officers.
Those police put their life on the line every day when they walk out of their home to face whatever is out there waiting for them. They also have families and children. They're HUMAN.
I still say that this man who died could have still been alive if he'd not resisted in the first place - he was under suspicion and stopped to be questioned - he could have kept his cool, answered questions, and if the police wanted to take him in for further questioning, gone with them without incident.
It was Garner's own resistance that caused this incident to even happen. It could have easily been avoided had he just obeyed in the first place and kept his cool - without putting up a struggle - he was the one who instigated what ensued. ,
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ZaireinHD
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Post by ZaireinHD on Jul 21, 2014 23:45:07 GMT -5
Eric Gardner went with police 5 of 6 times previously and this one last time he was sick of police coming around wanting to take him away.
YES had Eric Gardner gone with police he would still be alive.
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ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Jul 22, 2014 0:23:49 GMT -5
The fact that he was taken in 5 or 6 times previously (and on some of those occasions charged with criminal activity) says it all. If he was sick of police coming around he should have stopped doing the illegal shit - selling untaxed (bootleg) smokes and possession of an illegal drug. Who knows what other illegal activity he was into.
Stupid is, as stupid does.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 22, 2014 3:10:01 GMT -5
Don't do the crime if you aren't willing to take the consequences. One less douchebag. Too bad so sad.
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truthbound
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Post by truthbound on Jul 22, 2014 4:46:33 GMT -5
BTW, the use of the chokehold was banned by NYPD 20 yrs ago. Exactly. That is the issue here.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jul 23, 2014 9:06:39 GMT -5
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b2r
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Post by b2r on Jul 23, 2014 12:27:03 GMT -5
I wonder if the Police Union does not allow for their members to medically respond? No fewer than eleven (11), officers standing around waiting on EMS, not that the EMS response was any better. Four New York City emergency workers put on 'modified duty' in response to chokehold deathFour New York City emergency workers have been barred from responding to 911 calls amid an investigation into the medical response to a man who died in police custody after being put in an apparent chokehold during his arrest. Officials told the New York Post that the move does not indicate wrongdoing on the part of the two medics and two EMTs, who are employed by Richmond University Medical Center on Staten Island. Earlier Sunday, the Post reported that a seven-minute YouTube video showed that the medics violated several procedures when they arrived to treat Eric Garner Thursday. Citing sources in the city's Bureau of Emergency Medical Services (EMS), the paper reported that the video showed one medic arriving at Garner's side without any equipment like an oxygen bag or defibrillator. The Post also reported that protocol called for Garner to be placed on a stretcher and had his airway, breathing and circulation checked out by an EMT. Instead, the EMT featured in the video reportedly never used a stethoscope to check Garner's lungs and didn't connect him to an oxygen mask. More than three minutes into the video, a medic checked Garner's pulse. About two minutes later, Garner was lifted onto a gurney and transported to a waiting ambulance. When a bystander asked why no one is performing CPR, one officer responded, "because he's breathing." www.foxnews.com/us/2014/07/21/four-new-york-city-emergency-workers-put-on-modified-duty-in-response-to/
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damnotagain
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Post by damnotagain on Aug 2, 2014 9:11:50 GMT -5
of course keep blaming law enforcement - I was certain the entire time it was not the choke hold that killed him. dude was excited from the start - that was the start of his death. had he said ok what ever police take me in - he would be alive now. but having police put their foot on a guys face! while other police SEVERAL police with their knee on the back! of course this guy could breath with this cop pushing his weight on his head into the ground! 3 or 4 other cops on his back - pushing his over-sized gut unto the ground but no - cops are too excited - not paying any attention to what they were doing and this guy last words I CAN'T BREATH! Like I said before, police 100% wrong Looks like something will be done. Mr Garner's death ruled a homicide! Rest in peace sir! www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Eric-Garner-Chokehold-Police-Custody-Cause-of-Death-Staten-Island-Medical-Examiner-269396151.html
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2014 12:55:17 GMT -5
I didn't basically copy/paste anything of yours. As far as you continuing to blame the cops, you always blame the cops - you (by your own admission, and posted on this board), have been stopped numerous times, fined, ticketed, gone to court, etc for all the driving infractions you've committed - or non-street legal stuff you have on your cars - illegal lights, etc.
But you're right - I WILL never know what it's like - because I won't do something to put me on the police radar to begin with - and secondly, if stopped by an officer, (which I have been for speeding ) - I'd remain calm & polite - (which I did) - and allow them to ask questions.
I have one family member (in-law) who's a police officer - I had friends married to officers, and growing up, friends whose dads were officers.
Those police put their life on the line every day when they walk out of their home to face whatever is out there waiting for them. They also have families and children. They're HUMAN.
I still say that this man who died could have still been alive if he'd not resisted in the first place - he was under suspicion and stopped to be questioned - he could have kept his cool, answered questions, and if the police wanted to take him in for further questioning, gone with them without incident.
It was Garner's own resistance that caused this incident to even happen. It could have easily been avoided had he just obeyed in the first place and kept his cool - without putting up a struggle - he was the one who instigated what ensued. , I wish I had the same confidence to say I know I will NEVER be in the situation Zaire described because I won't do anything to put my self on the police radar. I don't know with certainty that it will never happen because I know that "doing something" doesn't have to be something illegal or wrong. I too am grateful for the the people that are willing to accept the risks and do their jobs well. But just like you mentioned, police officers are human, not all of them are good people with good intentions toward the citizens they are suppose to be serving and protecting.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2014 17:34:29 GMT -5
of course keep blaming law enforcement - I was certain the entire time it was not the choke hold that killed him. dude was excited from the start - that was the start of his death. had he said ok what ever police take me in - he would be alive now. but having police put their foot on a guys face! while other police SEVERAL police with their knee on the back! of course this guy could breath with this cop pushing his weight on his head into the ground! 3 or 4 other cops on his back - pushing his over-sized gut unto the ground but no - cops are too excited - not paying any attention to what they were doing and this guy last words I CAN'T BREATH! Like I said before, police 100% wrong Looks like something will be done. Mr Garner's death ruled a homicide! Rest in peace sir! www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Eric-Garner-Chokehold-Police-Custody-Cause-of-Death-Staten-Island-Medical-Examiner-269396151.htmlYou are still 100% wrong. A "choke hold" is a hold with the INTENT to choke. That takedown does not INTEND choking. Homicide can be accidental you know. (you can Google "accidental homicide", if you like). I agree with the "Rest in peace sir!" though.
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