happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jun 24, 2014 16:55:49 GMT -5
Just got back from a trip to my sister's house. She died at the end of April. She lived alone in her house with multiple cats; her husband had already passed and she had no family members living near her. My family members spent the week trying to clean out her house.
She was a hoarder, the dirty kind that keeps too many pets and doesn't clean up after them. She had a little 800 square foot house with a basement and every bit of it was crammed to the gills with crap.
Here is some advice for any other hoarders out there 1) if your home has any of these characteristics, YOU ARE A HOARDER: cobwebs hanging from every ceiling and every piece of furniture, windows so begrimed with dirt you can't see through them, rooms so full of stuff you can't see the furniture, hallways so packed with junk you can't walk through them, or floors so rotten from years of cat piss or soggy trash sitting on them that someone can fall through the floor (my sister did this, fortunately she wasn't hurt) 2) if you have animals and don't clean up after them, and don't clean up in general, your house will develop such a deep and penetrating funk that it will cling to every single thing in that house. Your relatives will be taking all your things made of fabrics - upholstered furniture, your clothing, bedding, etc (things that the Salvation Army could have used) - and dragging it right into a 20 yard box for the landfill. 3) You may think that all the little items you spent your life collecting will somehow be very valuable just because they are old. Old things are not necessarily valuable, especially when they are coated with cat leavings and mold. Even if you do have valuable collectibles, it will be very, very hard for your relatives to separate the important stuff from the cheap, dirty crap that surrounds it, especially when there is SO MUCH of it, so chances are, it will get tossed along with the other crap 4) if you spend your life tossing all your unwanted shit into your basement, what do you think happens when you die? Some magic fairy will transport it out of the house? Or do you just not give a shit that your relatives will be in your house, wearing tyvek coveralls and full face respirators so they won't inhale all the mold spores and die, struggling to separate the few items that can be salvaged from the acres of trash and stupid shit that you should have thrown out decades ago? 5) And finally, if you die and leave a house full of crap that has to be cleaned out, you will die knowing that your relatives will resent the hell out of you for making them do what you should have done for yourself - cleaning your own damn house.
If you are a hoarder, and if you love your family, please resolve to clean your house. Purge it of all the trash. Donate all the stuff you haven't used in over a year. If you can't or won't clean, do what you need to do to hire someone to come in weekly and clean for you. If you can't or won't clean up after your pets, you aren't doing them any favors keeping them - please give them up to pet owners who will actually care for them. If you are having trouble letting things go, even hundreds of old soy sauce packets, even years of unopened mail - please, please, please get some psychological help to understand why it's so hard for you to throw shit out, and then hire a good home organizer to help you control your mess. Or when you die, you'll know that everything you own, all that stuff that you thought was so special you couldn't ever part with it, will most likely be loaded into boxes and sent to the landfill, too, and your relatives will be mad as hell that their last memories of you was using a snow shovel to scoop trash and cat turds off your kitchen floor.
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Jun 24, 2014 16:59:44 GMT -5
I'm sorry for the loss of your sister but now I need to take a bleach bath after reading the conditions of the house. I hope that isn't me in the future. Almost all my family is deceased and if I get old and infirm I'll have cobwebs that I can't reach if DH dies before me and our money all goes to medical expenses and I can't afford help. You've described my worse nightmare and I truly hope to be back down to just 2 cats instead of 5. But my house is spotless! <<runs to clean it again just in case>> ETA: And telling a hoarder to do that won't work. They have mental issues. They need mental help not just cleaning help.
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Jun 24, 2014 17:00:57 GMT -5
I am so sorry, Happy
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2014 17:01:08 GMT -5
I am so, so sorry that you have had to go through this. All I can say is that it sounds like you weren't alone dealing with it, and I'm glad for that.
Very sage advice. The problem is, most hoarders don't realize they are hoarders.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Jun 24, 2014 17:04:52 GMT -5
Happy - I'm sorry for your loss .
Serious hoarding is a mental illness. One of the hallmarks of mental illness can be the inability to recognize that you are ill. Unfortunately, most hoarder are incapable of "resolving" to "do better" - even if they love their families. They CAN'T purge - even if they want to - the fear and anxiety is paralyzing. It is a VERY sad situation and I'm sorry you had to go through it.
ETA: debthaven beat me to it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2014 17:06:11 GMT -5
I may have "beat you to it", Kitten, but you explained it better than I could have.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jun 24, 2014 17:07:50 GMT -5
I am so, so sorry that you have had to go through this. All I can say is that it sounds like you weren't alone dealing with it, and I'm glad for that. Very sage advice. The problem is, most hoarders don't realize they are hoarders. Bingo!
My neighbor across the street is a hoarder-big time. Her partner is a school psychologist who puts up with her hoarding.
My childhood neighbor was a hoarder. After she was found near death in her home (she died a day or two later in the hospital), the city health department had to tent and fumigate her home to rid it of vermin. Not a pretty sight.
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cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on Jun 24, 2014 18:06:02 GMT -5
I am slow to throw things away but not a dirty hoarder. I got rid of all the pets and am emptying my house this year. The donation truck comes again tomorrow so I must find them things to have.
One step below hoarder is collector and saver. My aunt is one, she has valuables she got mostly at yard sales, decent stuff. Her guestroom is so full you can't walk around the bed and the closet overflows, two big barns full of stuff too. China cabinets so full you can't see the nice things. She is now 86 and in poor health, her daughter in law cleans for her now and packed up half of her stuff, cleaned china cabinets so things are on display not jammed in.
Mom saved things too but not much compared to her sister. When she gave up housekeeping she still had elementary school report cards for us. Three yard sales and trips to the she moved into 4 rooms and when she died my brother got rid of everything she had left. After helping with mom's yard sales I decided we don't need to save so much stuff.
Today I will get rid of half my towels, two fountains, two lights, some books, some clothes. It is hard but once gone I may not miss them if I do I can buy more. My living, dining and bath room are clean enough for company. The kitchen is being sanded, and painted now most stuff is gone already but I am cleaning out my excess kitchen stuff filling 30 gallon garbage can a week with stuff not worth donating like expired food if I find any. Then my cupboards will be near bare I don't use the top two shelves because I am short but I don't need much stuff for one person.
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sesfw
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Post by sesfw on Jun 24, 2014 18:26:32 GMT -5
When I married DH I found out his DW#1 was a shopaholic. She would buy things on sale whether she needed it or not, then asked if there were any more in the back room. Once she got them home they went in the 3K ft basement, never to be seen again. Basement = never, never land.
When we cleaned out and moved it was like pulling teeth to get DH to get rid of anything. The home itself had a 8x10 room that was their art book library. Downstairs had shelves of bankers boxes full of all kinds of books. My PU can hold 14 of those boxes on one layer and I took 3 loads to the local library book sale.
After we got here I still took 3 loads of stuff to Goodwill. We ended up with some empty space and I convinced DH that it wasn't necessary to have every inch filled with stuff. So far anything we buy, something has to go. (keeping fingers crossed it stays this way).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2014 18:33:17 GMT -5
I'm sorry about your sister happy. I manage/monitor a family member that hoards things. It's not easy and I find myself muttering and mumbling under my breath as I try to organize and clean. If I am not careful what I say I won't be allowed to even do this. Better that though than what you are going through now . I can't imagine the sadness and anger combo as you throw away "precious" things after her death.
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busymom
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Post by busymom on Jun 24, 2014 18:48:52 GMT -5
Happy, I am SO sorry you are dealing with this.
Our county doesn't mess around. If a house is THAT bad here, with cat poop & weakened floor boards, the house gets condemned & torn down.
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mollyanna58
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Post by mollyanna58 on Jun 24, 2014 18:59:51 GMT -5
My parents have crossed the line from pack rats to hoarders. Their house is dusty and has too much dog hair, but their kitchen and bathrooms are reasonably clean and fully useable.
Dad doesn't buy stuff other than vitamins and supplements. His problem is the incredible amount of mail that he receives and doesn't deal with, so it piles up everywhere on top of Mom's stuff.
My sisters, brothers, and I have all offered to help my mother "organize". One brother and I are at the house more often than our siblings, and we are a little less diplomatic about things. I have told my mother than even with organization, they have too much stuff, and need to get rid of stuff that hasn't been used in 10 years.
It is a standing rule among us that if Mom or Dad offer us anything from the house that they don't want any more or think we can use, TAKE IT and get it out of the house, even if its destination is our garbage can.
She wants to get a rolling cart that she can use to bring food from the kitchen to the TV room, where she eats. (Dad has the kitchen table covered with mail. He eats standing at the kitchen counter.) She can't carry things easily because she needs to use a cane. I pointed out that she wouldn't be able to maneuver a cart easily through their cluttered house, and offered yet again to help clean and help her sort out what to discard. I got her to agree to let me help her sort out the clothes in laundry baskets all over her bedroom and decide what she wants to donate. I'll be happy if I can get two garbage bags worth gone.
My brother and I have both started sneaking stuff out of the house. It's disrespectful, but I have to do it.
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mollyanna58
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Post by mollyanna58 on Jun 24, 2014 19:02:31 GMT -5
I'm sorry for your loss, Happy, and that you had to deal with the cleanup. But the others are right; hoarders rarely see what others see.
My parents know they have to much stuff, and they are embarrassed if a service person needs to get in.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2014 19:07:54 GMT -5
I have a friend whose Mom is a hoarder. The only time I've ever been to her house, she had to clear a seat for me to sit down (not really, I could've stood up but she was being nice). It was a small dining chair that she uncovered and I had to sit on the edge of it because there was still stuff on it. She and my friend stood up during the visit. There was stuff piled almost to the ceilings and the only piece of furniture visible was the chair she'd uncovered for me. There was a narrow path from the front door through the living room, to the hallway. I'd never seen anything like it in real life. She told us that night that she has nightmares where she has a medical emergency and the paramedics can't get through the stuff to her bedroom where she is. When we left, my friend told me "She wonders why I won't let her keep my baby. I'd never find my baby again in all that mess". Completely understandable. -hug-to you Happy.
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Sunnyday
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Post by Sunnyday on Jun 24, 2014 19:34:27 GMT -5
When I married DH I found out his DW#1 was a shopaholic. She would buy things on sale whether she needed it or not, then asked if there were any more in the back room. Once she got them home they went in the 3K ft basement, never to be seen again. Basement = never, never land.
When we cleaned out and moved it was like pulling teeth to get DH to get rid of anything. The home itself had a 8x10 room that was their art book library. Downstairs had shelves of bankers boxes full of all kinds of books. My PU can hold 14 of those boxes on one layer and I took 3 loads to the local library book sale.
After we got here I still took 3 loads of stuff to Goodwill. We ended up with some empty space and I convinced DH that it wasn't necessary to have every inch filled with stuff. So far anything we buy, something has to go. (keeping fingers crossed it stays this way).
It sounds like it wasn't only the DW #1 who had the problem if he couldn't get rid of stuff. hoarders absolutely fascinate and disgust me. I also feel sorry for them, because it really is a mental illness. What they do makes no sense.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2014 19:51:10 GMT -5
"hoarders absolutely fascinate and disgust me. I also feel sorry for them, because it really is a mental illness. What they do makes no sense."
Me too. I used to get real mad about a family member but then one day it just hit me "they can't help it" and then I just cried and mostly got over being mad. Still though as I clean I'm saying crazy, nuts, What?, under my breath and I get a little mad until I'm done.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jun 24, 2014 20:27:32 GMT -5
The doctor I dated had a mom who was a hoarder. Just sad.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Jun 24, 2014 21:31:07 GMT -5
I've watched the show Hoarders. I am a collector so I do have too much stuff. I purposely limit myself to one cat and I do clean my house. I will not have a cat who doesn't use the litter box.
I am at a point where I do need to get rid of things. DS and I divided up parents' stuff a year ago that they didn't want in new apartment. I have not been able to bring myself to go through it and either toss it or box it up. Mom thought everything she owned was a valuable antique. She was wrong. The day before she died, she insisted I bring one of those home with me. I need to just toss it because it is not valuable. It's a piece of cardboard with some writing on it. I have no idea why she thought it was valuable.
She had to bowls that her mother used. Those I will not get rid of. I also ended up with a quilt that mom's grandmother had made. That is truly valuable and is going nowhere.
I feel sorry for hoarders because it is a form of mental illness. It is quite obvious in watching the television show, that it develops slowly and then is totally out of control.
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JustLurkin
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Post by JustLurkin on Jun 24, 2014 22:22:48 GMT -5
She told us that night that she has nightmares where she has a medical emergency and the paramedics can't get through the stuff to her bedroom where she is. That happened on one of the Hoarding shows. The "path" wasn't wide enough for a gurney. The daughter was telling the story. She said her mom was the hoarder. The father had a heart attack and had to walk outside for treatment. She said something like "I love my mom, but if my dad had died during that 60-foot walk..." she got all choked up and signaled for them to turn the camera off.
Sorry happy.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jun 25, 2014 7:01:17 GMT -5
Happy, I am SO sorry you are dealing with this.
Our county doesn't mess around. If a house is THAT bad here, with cat poop & weakened floor boards, the house gets condemned & torn down. Her house has been determined to be unfit for human occupancy, so not only do we have to deal with cleaning it out, we have the local health department calling making sure no one is living in it until they've re-inspected it (like anyone will want to).
Before we can sell it we will probably have to pay for a professional mold remediation, maybe have all the drywall and floors ripped up, we will absolutely have to have the kitchen and bathroom cabinets removed.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jun 25, 2014 7:08:34 GMT -5
Thanks for all the positive thoughts.
I will say, despite shoveling ancient cat poop in a tyvek and respirator, this experience has had two good impacts on our family - it brought the remaining family members together, united together to face this mess, and it made a deep impact on all of us, as far as the uselessness of accumulating 'stuff.'
All of us went home and gathered up stuff to get rid of. I personally rounded up half a garage of stuff to donate to the Salvation Army, just waiting for the truck to come pick it up.
Sometimes, the best you can do with a bad situation is use it as a cautionary tale for other people - which was the purpose of my post here.
And I do love my sister, I understand she had MH issues, but she had family and friends that loved her who would have helped her clean up her house and would have found a cleaning service to come in and change the litter boxes and clean the floors for her, in order to keep her home at some level of cleanliness. But I think she was terrified her cats would be taken away, and I think at some level she was also deeply ashamed, so she refused to let anyone in her home for the last ten years, even her best friends. It's tragic.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2014 7:43:29 GMT -5
For those of you trying to simplify/declutter, I got a book out of the library that I like so much I may (gasp!) buy my own copy. It's "Rightsizing Your Life" by Ciji Ware, and it's very practical but does a wonderful job of addressing the emotional issues, too. It's going to take us awhile (we want to move into a smaller place in a year or so), but we've pitched a lot, donated a lot, and raised about $500 selling things on e-Bay and to one of those "We Buy Gold" places (worn-out ring mountings with no stones- nothing really marketable). My grandmother's mink stole will be made into a teddy bear for my granddaughter. I was looking for a Chicago map last week and didn't have one but found that I have about 10 of London!
Yeah, still more work to do.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2014 7:59:44 GMT -5
I am slow to throw things away but not a dirty hoarder. I got rid of all the pets and am emptying my house this year. The donation truck comes again tomorrow so I must find them things to have. One step below hoarder is collector and saver. My aunt is one, she has valuables she got mostly at yard sales, decent stuff. Her guestroom is so full you can't walk around the bed and the closet overflows, two big barns full of stuff too. China cabinets so full you can't see the nice things. She is now 86 and in poor health, her daughter in law cleans for her now and packed up half of her stuff, cleaned china cabinets so things are on display not jammed in. Mom saved things too but not much compared to her sister. When she gave up housekeeping she still had elementary school report cards for us. Three yard sales and trips to the she moved into 4 rooms and when she died my brother got rid of everything she had left. After helping with mom's yard sales I decided we don't need to save so much stuff. Today I will get rid of half my towels, two fountains, two lights, some books, some clothes. It is hard but once gone I may not miss them if I do I can buy more. My living, dining and bath room are clean enough for company. The kitchen is being sanded, and painted now most stuff is gone already but I am cleaning out my excess kitchen stuff filling 30 gallon garbage can a week with stuff not worth donating like expired food if I find any. Then my cupboards will be near bare I don't use the top two shelves because I am short but I don't need much stuff for one person. collector and saver is just a 'nicer' term for hoarder. if someone has a room that you can't walk in, barns full of stuff, china cabinets full of stuff, etc., they're a hoarder.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 25, 2014 8:07:24 GMT -5
collector and saver is just a 'nicer' term for hoarder.No those are the labels History Channel uses so you don't get confused when you watch American Pickers. If I am not paying attention to who is on screen I can't tell the difference between it and Hoarders on A&E.
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midwestlily
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Post by midwestlily on Jun 25, 2014 8:09:05 GMT -5
I'm sorry, happy.
I have to ask, what happened to the cats? Were they in good enough shape to be adopted?
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seriousthistime
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Post by seriousthistime on Jun 25, 2014 8:12:30 GMT -5
So sorry for your loss, happyhoix. I can understand how one can be mourning yet bitter all at once.
My closest real life experience with hoarding is with a friend who is at the early stages of hoarding. She's convinced that she just needs a better organizational system so she buys products to help her organize, and the products are never used, so she buys more, and the organizing products get added to the mess. Every time I go to her house now (which is not often), there is a new piece of furniture, and she talks about how she is going to move another piece either upstairs or downstairs (basement) to make better room for the new piece. She does put bags together to donate, but somehow she never gets them to Goodwill. She won't get rid of old furniture because it's valuable, so she has to sell it, and she has to get what she thinks it's worth, and not what someone would pay. She's convinced that no matter how many times her kids tell her they don't want to take something (a china cupboard, dresser, chair), at some point they will say yes they want it. So she holds onto things.
She has said from time to time that what she really needs is for someone to come over and she will direct them where to move things (upstairs or basement). I am not going to be that person. As it is, I get too claustrophobic sitting in her living room. My standing offer, however, is: if you are serious about getting rid of stuff, I will help. I am not willing to move things around for you unless they are going out the door.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jun 25, 2014 8:19:19 GMT -5
I am so so sorry for your loss. This will be my IL's house when they die, minus the cats. I thank G-d almost daily that they are living the whole house to my SIL and not to my husband. I am soooo thankful we won't need to do anything with that . And that's exactly what is is - a .
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jun 25, 2014 8:25:12 GMT -5
They are ashamed but not enough to clean up. Former boyfriends mom would cry when her kids would tell her they were just getting those trash containers for her stuff after she dies. Her husband bought a motor home and lives in it. She broke into it while he was gone and started putting crap in it. When he got home, he went nuts and threw her crap out of it onto the yard. She called the cops. Wish they'd have hauled her to the loony bin because the husband and sons would have had time to clean out the house then. Then she'd have really gone nuts!!!
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jun 25, 2014 8:29:51 GMT -5
collector and saver is just a 'nicer' term for hoarder. if someone has a room that you can't walk in, barns full of stuff, china cabinets full of stuff, etc., they're a hoarder.
I worry that my mother has the potential to become a hoarder- as it is I think she's borderline now. They have an 8,000 sf house for the two of them. Walk in closets in all 4 of the guest suites- every closet is full of my mom's stuff. Full set of furniture in every bedroom and all dresser drawers are full too. When we moved grandma into a nursing home my mom took over the task of cleaning out her house. So much of that crap is still at my parents house that it drives my dad batty.
She's at the point now where it looks like it's all organized and clean but she has no clue what she all has and is reluctant to get rid of anything. When they moved into this house we helped them and she nearly disowned me for throwing away expired food so she didn't move it to the new house.
I worry that if my dad dies first than there won't be anyone to reign in her tendencies. He is jealous of the decluttering DH and I have been doing and wishes that he could do the same. I think he is a bit of an enabler in that he doesn't stand up to her now.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 25, 2014 8:49:53 GMT -5
Logical arguments do not heal mentally ill people.
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