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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2014 19:50:57 GMT -5
How to put it... How do you go about balancing the to and fro when it comes to kids and 'what comes next'...
Do you pay for college? How much? Monetarily? Percentage?
Is payment dependent upon anything? Grades? Major? Having 'a plan'?
Do you give micromanage? Give guidance? Take a hands off approach?
If you give guidance, do you guide them towards their 'dream'... towards the most marketable degree?
Do you suggest they 'do what you love' for work, or 'earn enough' to do what you love outside of work?
These are questions I'm currently struggling with... What you've done, what your parents did, what you think you will probably do would all be welcome...
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Jun 22, 2014 20:01:54 GMT -5
oped, I know that there's been some friction on the thread. However, its not very kind to start a post about another poster "taking it badly". I think it would be really nice if you'd remove that statement.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Jun 22, 2014 21:09:28 GMT -5
Delete since I don't know what the "friction" is about.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2014 21:14:06 GMT -5
The Other Me, did you delete a response to my OP? ... There is no friction. I am very interested in anything anyone might have to say on the subject.
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sesfw
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Post by sesfw on Jun 22, 2014 21:25:32 GMT -5
do you guide them towards their 'dream'... towards the most marketable degree?
I would point them to a marketable degree they like so they have the funds to chase their dream. Unmarketable dreams are a hobby until you are totally independent and can afford it.
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Jun 22, 2014 21:28:40 GMT -5
I have had 3 go to college in the last 6 years. I will pay your tuition as long as it is free. All have gotten full tuition scholarships and have to maintain 3.0 gpa, have done so far. They have to pay living expenses, will have $20-30k loans when they graduate. They have chosen which school with some guidance from me, understanding the cost.
DD got a degree in a major with low employment. But she is on track to get a good job. My boys will get business degrees.had
I DID not go to college orientation with any of them. You are on your own.
I DID not micromanage in terms of grades. It is up to you. But need to talk to youngest. He has finished 2 years all As and Bs, but lately more Bs than A. Transferring to top level school in the fall, needs to get his butt in gear.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Jun 22, 2014 21:54:11 GMT -5
The Other Me, did you delete a response to my OP? ... There is no friction. I am very interested in anything anyone might have to say on the subject. Yes, I did. Okay, here goes again. Back in the late 60's, early 70's, DS and I were graduating high school and thinking of college. Mom and dad made it clear they did not have the money to help us with college. We both worked and then went to college. We both paid our own way through working and student loans. I attended a small private college and I received a lot of grants due to my financial position and grades. DS went the the state university and says she did not receive anything like this. I started out by taking the classes I knew college freshmen would have to take no matter where I would eventually go to school at the local junior college at night. So I worked 8 hours a day and went to school 4 nights a week. That was getting old, so I took the plunge and went to college full time. Since it was on my dime, my parents had no input in to my major or anything else. I worked as a secretary and I knew I wanted to major in accounting. I put a lot of pressure on myself in both high school and college concerning grades so nobody else needed to pressure me. I graduated from college summa semen laude. My parents provided love, emotional support and a place to do laundry during my college years. When DS's children were reaching college age, she and BIL told their 4 children the same thing. They are farmers and farmers have good years and bad years. When child 1 went off to school, there were still 3 children at home. Farmers are cash poor but very wealthy on paper due to the value of the land. As BIL says, on paper he is a millionaire, but he'd have to sell the farm to have the cash. So their 4 kids went off to college under the same conditions as we did. BIL's parents didn't help their 6 children with college either. DS's kids have done very well in college. Her daughter is a nurse. Son #1 has his PhD and Son #2 just received his MBA. Son #3 is a whole different story. He should have taken a gap year or two as he had no idea of what he wanted to do when he started his college career. The other three were goal oriented. #3 will be starting year number 6 of his undergraduate degree in the fall. He does now know what he wants to do. After this academic year, he will have student teaching left in the fall of 2015 and be done. He promised Grandma he would finish and make her proud and said so at her funeral in his eulogy. The kid of assistance they provided to their children was love, emotional support and laundry also. However, being hog farmers, the kids were always sent home with lots of meat and any other food DS had around. She would stock up on food to send back with them after they left the dorm. They also helped them with their annual move from one apartment to the next apartment. They are excellent at packing everything in their van and child's car to move them home and then to the new apartment. With DS's help, those kids have gotten every deposit back in college towns known for keeping college student deposits. She was always there at check-in with her camera and at check out with her camera. Her house is spotless and I'm sure the apartments were left spotless. Son #1 was very independent from the day he left for school. He only came home for holidays and breaks. We went to his dorm with a birthday cake his freshman year and totally embarrassed him. He lived in a coed dorm. His roommate just left one night and never came back. He was still in school. He left a fridge and some nice furniture. Didn't check out at the semester and the RA said he was supposed to be in the room for the spring semester. He never came. When nephew called him about his stuff towards the end of the semester, he said that it was my nephew's stuff now. Nephew must have liked me better than the entire family with birthday cake. I went to a concert on campus and he let me share his room since the other guy no longer lived there. You should have seen the looks I got when I went to the next floor to use take a shower the next morning. I do not have children. However, I have been micromanaged and I rebelled as an adult. I would have been worse at that age. I do not think DS and BIL gave kids cash from what the kids have told me. However, DS loves Christmas and they got all the things they needed clothes wise and gadget wise then. Just no cash, so they all had jobs. Nephew who got the PhD did the TA and RA route in grad school, so no longer was a barista living off the leftovers at closing because he didn't come home to take home food. Dad could work on their cars, so he helped them that way also. I know they bought a car for one of the kids and the child was paying mom and dad each month rather than a bank. It's easier to miss a payment if need be then.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2014 21:55:36 GMT -5
How to put it... How do you go about balancing the to and fro when it comes to kids and 'what comes next'... Do you pay for college? How much? Monetarily? Percentage? Is payment dependent upon anything? Grades? Major? Having 'a plan'? Do you give micromanage? Give guidance? Take a hands off approach? If you give guidance, do you guide them towards their 'dream'... towards the most marketable degree? Do you suggest they 'do what you love' for work, or 'earn enough' to do what you love outside of work? These are questions I'm currently struggling with... What you've done, what your parents did, what you think you will probably do would all be welcome... Here's what I think fwiw. You may want to do the opposite lol. I couldn't afford to completely pay for college, but I was willing to help as much as I could. Dollar amounts, they could make it go as far as they wanted, according to the cost of the college they chose. My contributions werent equal either. I worked OT to pay more for the youngest child. DS was to have kept his scholarships. I could not have covered the loss of his scholarships because the school was so expensive. DD just had to make decent grades. I didn't micromanage. I had an excellent resource to help us navigate the whole college thing and give us advice. I helped my kids gather information based on what they said they wanted to do, talked with them and gave them my opinions, and let them make their choices. I didn't try to steer them toward a specific major or career. I advised them to choose something they were interested in, but they didn't necessarily have to love it. And to make sure the career path could get them to the standard of living they wanted. Beyond that, I didn't care what they chose. If they wanted to be an educated sanitation worker and could be happy doing it, have at it. I believe one should be practical, but I also think we need the dreamers. Think of all the beautiful and practical things we would be without if nobody ever dared to dream and follow through. I know its diiferent whent its your own kid taking the risk, but I'm not one to knock a dream that someone has been working toward.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Jun 22, 2014 21:59:47 GMT -5
Forgot to say that the 3 nephews all attended mom and dad's alma mater. Nephew #2 had a very prestigious scholarship that partially paid his way all four years (even though he graduated in 3.5). His freshman year he did not have to take out any loans.
Nephew #1 has always been more of a dreamer. His degree is in political science. He wanted to do a semester abroad, but that didn't work with his course work. So he did a summer course in art in Rome. He told me he took out more student loans for that one course than his entire 4 years of undergraduate school.
After a year of a one year appointment after getting his PhD, he now has a tenure track position starting in the fall. So all is good with him.
DS did go to orientation with them. I think more for her because she loved being back on campus than because they wanted or needed her there.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Jun 22, 2014 22:03:45 GMT -5
My parents supported me follow my dream. I have two basketweaving degrees.
I was very blessed in that respect. They supported me in the pursuit of my craft for 12 years growing up, and then 8 years of college. It was quite an investment for them simply to get me to be in a position to get into college. My lessons alone, 20+ years ago were $40/hour. Then it was youth orchestra, festivals, camps, and an instrument.
They didn't say boo. Rather they attended every concert. Every recital. Driving me around for camps, festivals, etc.
My college education was a family affair. My parents paid some, I paid some, and inheritances paid for some. I also worked, and pretty much supported myself when I was in grad school.
But, I also was one of those rare kids that made good decisions while I was in HS and generally in college. There were no worries of me drinking excessively, getting high, committing academic misconduct or engaging in any behaviors that would have had me kicked out.
I left college with no loans. For that, I am eternally grateful. Starting my adult life out with a positive net worth gave me options.
And, when you know you are entering a discipline where it's hard to get the good jobs, options are worth everything.
I did not follow my career dream. Ultimately, I did not take any auditions. I'm sure my parents are disappointed about that. But, I wanted to settle down and have kids. You can't really have kids if you don't know where/when you'll be employed.
It turns out, that I am a really, really good teacher. I often "saw" myself being surrounded by kids. In that respect, I'm living out all of my dreams..marriage, a family, and working a job that fulfills me. Yes, it's not perfect. There's still parts of the plan that didn't work out. I still have my day job, for example..
My parents didn't really micromanage. But, they have a hard time seeing me as an adult. The only type of relationship they are interested in with me is a parent/child one. I see this as two separate issues.
I want to position my children so that they also have options. If my kids want to be a SAHP (I have both genders), I want them to have that option. If they want to climb that corporate ladder, I want them to have that option.
So, for us, that does mean leaving college with no loans. I do believe we will get close to it.
I look at college much like my wedding day. Both, were simply beginnings, and the real journey came after these events.
I also think that one needs to be aware, as much as they can, of how they want their life in total to look. I don't think an exact forecast of the number and age of children is necessary. But I think someone should figure out earlier vs later what their right combination of work, family, etc.
I believe that you can still be a critical thinker, a problem solver, even if you aren't a STEM major. I believe these qualities, in combination with being a hard and good worker will get you far. I also believe that graduate school will be the norm for my kids, not the exception.
My kids are too young yet to have found their "passion." My oldest is 10, and so the best we can do now is keep exposing, exposing, exposing until something clicks. It's through all this exposing that hopefully DS will learn more about himself, learn his strength and weaknesses. Understand how he works.
I think we lean more somewhere around give guidance. If my children wanted to be social worker or a preschool teacher, minimally, I'd want them to understand what kind of lifestyle they can lead. I think, I would be remiss as a parent, if I didn't work through what their life might look like after graduation, particularly if they are grossing 30k max and have 300+ in student loan payments per month. Especially since I believe that having minimal to no student loans and help with weddings or houses is enough of a gift. I don't need to support my kids (ie, pay their cell phone bill, pay their car insurance, welcoming them back into my home for a prolonged length of time) and I will have no intention of doing so once they graduate.
If my kids present me with a path that doesn't make sense, I would ask questions of them. But, I ask questions of anyone when I don't understand...it doesn't matter if it's a work thing, a hobby, or I'm buying a car. I don't believe that my kids are exempt from this simply because they are my kids.
At my alma mater, parents are expected to attend freshman registration. It's a two day, overnight thing. Parents take tours of the campus, have their activities, etc. Students are busy with their own things. Parent and student do meet for meals and a few times built in. Parents do not sit in with the student and advisers.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 22, 2014 22:13:53 GMT -5
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Sharon
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Post by Sharon on Jun 22, 2014 22:21:45 GMT -5
When I was in high school I had college totally figured out. Knew exactly what steps I was going to take, which schools etc to end up with a degree in nursing. Turned out I hated school, especially the sorority. My parents put heavy pressure on joining a sorority. I was told if I didn't join a sorority there would be no financial help.
Went one year to state school in pre-nursing sorta switched majors winter term to computer science then swung back to nursing in the spring. By pursuing a degree in nursing I could switch schools to one that did not have a sorority. Went one year to nursing school and for the most part liked it but was always worried that I was going to kill someone. I felt like a complete failure if I could not remember every single drug and all the interactions for everyone of my patients that was assigned to me.
End of the second year of school I quit and got a job. I am actually still working for that same company but have moved onwards and upwards as it were. While working I eventually went back to school and got my degree in computer science. I never did have loans through any of the process. When I got serious about school I was living on my own and supporting myself. Lived in a really crappy part of town in a big old house, by myself, and the rent was $300 a month.
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Sharon
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Post by Sharon on Jun 22, 2014 22:33:56 GMT -5
We have just completed this journey, almost, with DD. She graduated a couple of weeks ago from a local state school. I paid some, she took out some student loans, had some scholarships and some grants. Her student loan total at the end of 3 years is $14,000. That is a very manageable amount today. Her degree is very strange but she should be employable. It would be easier for her to find a job in another part of the state but her husband has a job on this side of the mountains so this is where they will be living.
She met a very nice young man in one of her classes first term of college, they were married this last December.
My parents pressured DD to join a sorority and it was she now calls the worst decision of my life. My parents were both involved in greek life in school and think you fart rainbows and unicorns if you are involved in a sorority/frat. We had a lot of drama and I had to get involved to get her out of the sorority without paying a lot of money. DD was writing the letters and working on getting herself out of there but was really getting the run around. I made one phone call to the alumnae advisory committee for the sorority and all of the sudden the student committee wasn't giving her crap anymore.
I drove DD down for orientation and stayed for one session on financial aid and then went home. She spent the night and did all the activities and got registered for her classes all by herself.
I did send food down regularly and of course the washer/dryer was always available for use. I also would send her cards for things like Valentines day and Easter and enclose a gift card to the local Fred Meyer.
She is pretty much launched right now. She is still on my health insurance through work but SIL becomes a full time employee at his place of employment on July 1st. There is still quite a bit of laundry done at my place but that is okay. This weekend they also brought me a big bowl of nice berries from the farm. SIL also brings me farm grade fertilizer to use in my garden and lawn and he also does some work around my place that I am unable to do.
DD will be working on a temporary basis for her Grandpa, until she finds something permanent. Jobs with Grandpa are not fluff jobs. She will be painting and renovating one of his rentals to get ready to put on the market.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Jun 23, 2014 0:36:04 GMT -5
I find that the kids in my life (I don't have any so it's family and/or friends or aquiantances) who have had a 'dream' since early childhood and then pursue it thru HS and Collage tend to 'make good' or atleast seem happy with their choice to be a 'starving artist'. The kids who came up with an artistic 'dream' in HS or College - not so much - they're starving and can't seem to get started (maybe because of the lack of contacts/networking/experience?? The former group (had the dream as a 5 year old and did things as a kid towards that dream) had a lot of experience/contacts/networks in their area of interest by the time they graduated HS. Their parents got them singing/acting/writing/building/playing music in more than just school productions). The later group - pretty much just had the HS or College 'career experience'. Not really sure that the 'experience' in HS and College provided in a classroom or 'controlled artistic area of production' is really indicative of the real world...
I think a kid getting started late (like say HS) needs to really have some remarkable talent or be charismatic in some way to make it 'big'. I think a kid who starts early has time to develop the 'charisma' - ie the ability to say and do the right/expected things as second nature - that helps them succeed.
So, unless I was fully vested in my kid's talent (meaning I've been moving them along their path since childhood) -- I'd probably try more guidance towards a marketable degree (that perhaps they could use to be part of the area of their dreams) with their dream stuff being secondary. Especially, if the kid came up with their arts "dream job" in HS...
There's the unfortunate fact that pretty much all humans enjoy some form of the "Arts" and can contribute to them in one way and can be middling good. I think a lot of kids feel pressure to choose something - anything! and when in doubt or out of fear the arts look pretty good.
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saveinla
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Post by saveinla on Jun 23, 2014 0:53:45 GMT -5
How to put it... How do you go about balancing the to and fro when it comes to kids and 'what comes next'...
Do you pay for college? How much? Monetarily? Percentage?
Yes. 95%. He is taking the max loans in his name - 5500 per year for 2 years and a little above that for probably the next 2 years.
Is payment dependent upon anything? Grades? Major? Having 'a plan'?
No. It is our culture. Our parents paid for us, so we pay. He looked at all the schools and packages and we talked about it and the private college was the best option, since he got merit based scholarships.
Do you give micromanage? Give guidance? Take a hands off approach?
Do not micromanage. Just talk and give guidance or ideas if he asks for it. He talks to me about the classes he is planning to take and asks me what to do sometimes.
If you give guidance, do you guide them towards their 'dream'... towards the most marketable degree?
My son wanted to study Physics, so that is his dream. My DH wanted him to take Engineering, but he did not want that. Not sure what he will be doing after that, although he goes to a private college and they have a good placement.
Do you suggest they 'do what you love' for work, or 'earn enough' to do what you love outside of work?
I love my work, but I know not everyone is blessed to do what they love. Since he is not yet sure what he wants to do, we have to see.
These are questions I'm currently struggling with... What you've done, what your parents did, what you think you will probably do would all be welcome...
My parents pushed me to study Engineering and I still resent that sometimes, although I have a great job that I love because of that. I am not sure if I would have had the same opportunities that I have had if they had not pushed me, but I will never know.
We are giving our son the option of choosing what he wants to do and he has just finished his first year. I am hoping he will do fine, but we don't know what is going to happen. Sometimes I worry since he is not as driven as some kids that I see, but he has a very Zen like approach to life in general and I hope that will carry through his life.
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imanangel
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Post by imanangel on Jun 23, 2014 2:44:50 GMT -5
Do you pay for college? How much? Monetarily? Percentage?
We are paying a portion of their college. DSD is also taking out loans and also has a scholarship to help her pay. Bio mom is giving her a place to live rent free. DS will be going in the fall of 2015. He will be expected to take out loans, apply for scholarships, etc. We will pay a portion as well. I will hopefully be working full time by then because he will not be able to get anything in aide. I will be surprised if he will even be able to take out subsidized loans. I am not sure what the income levels are for those. Is payment dependent upon anything? Grades? Major? Having 'a plan'?
I am not paying for them to retake any classes that they fail. We discuss majors, but I have never tied money to their major. It is up to them. I do talk to them about their future plans and how they plan on using the degree, but I just leaving it at that. I don't try to change their minds. DSD is going into nursing and DS is planning on pursuing a degree in computer science.
Do you give micromanage? Give guidance? Take a hands off approach?
I do not micromanage. I give guidance when asked, but for the most part I have left things up to them. I have helped both research different schools because they asked me to. DS has picked a school that I am not very excited about. It is a fine school, just farther away from us than I would like, but it is up to him. I told him that it is his decision, how much we can afford to give him, and told him good luck. DSD also picked a school I wasn't crazy about. It allowed her to live at home with her mom in order to avoid dorm costs, but I knew that there was a waiting list for the program. She thought her grades would bump her ahead of other people. It did not. Now she is having to transfer to another school. I haven't said anything. I told her "good luck!" It was a life lesson for her to do better research on things in the future.
If you give guidance, do you guide them towards their 'dream'... towards the most marketable degree?
I talk to them about what they enjoy and what they can see themselves doing in the future. They both want to do marketable degrees so it really hasn't been an issue. Do you suggest they 'do what you love' for work, or 'earn enough' to do what you love outside of work?
No, I do not suggest that they do what they love. I love my job, but my husband does not love his. Sometimes we have to do work we do not love in order to keep a roof over our heads and food on the table. I told them it is their life, they can do what they want, but that they really need to look at whether or not they can afford to pay their bills.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Jun 23, 2014 7:09:34 GMT -5
I have thought about this a lot lately. The good news is she graduated from HS this weekend. I can only hope her college years will be so smooth. I don't think I micromanage, but that may be the same thing that stops people from smelling their own bad breath? We do discuss things and she generally does agree with us. that probably has more to do with her personality than our pushing. We did go over all her college cost options. We are doing everything we can to help her financially. I even went so far as to get a PT job to make a few extra $ to put towards it. But even with all that it will still leave a shortfall that she will have to make up with student loans. I even made excel charts on how much ever school she applied to cost, and subtracted any aid she got from them. We didn't get any financial aid from the fed or state. She did get merit aid and financial aid from the private colleges she applied to and that was the deciding factor in the end. The state college would have been an extra $10K a year over the private colleges. She is one of those kids who has known what they were going to be when she was in kindergarten. Her choice was HS teacher. As far as money in this area at least the teachers all seem to be doing very well. We will be driving her to college for her move in day orientation. She isn't allow a car and it is four hours away so there really isn't much choice. I would imagine she will continue to text me about things. I don't tend to get involved often with her school problems other than to tell her how I would handle it but she also hasn't had many problems so who know what will happen.
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Jun 23, 2014 7:56:24 GMT -5
For our kids, Mom and Dad pay for use of a car ($6k car, not a nice one), car insurance, health insurance, cell phone, first laptop. Car title will be transferred upon graduation.
My boys take advantage of the HOPE scholarship in GA. DD got a full tuition scholarship to a school in the neighboring state (which is actually closer than the GA schools). They must maintain 3.2 gpa, DD made it through, DS1 has very high gpa and 1 more semester and DS2 has decent gpa after 2 years.
As far as guiding them toward the right major, we talk about what they want to do and what they are good at. Funny story DS1 started college major undecided. He did not want to listen to Mom and Dad about what to major in. I tried to talk him into Engineering or Math. He took a class his first year called Career Explorations. He said when he heard about being an actuary, he knew right away that was for him. Changed his major to Finance and Economics and has had almost all A's since then. On his own, he studied for the actuary exams and passed the first 2 on the first try and will soon be taking his third.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2014 8:09:00 GMT -5
For our kids, Mom and Dad pay for use of a car ($6k car, not a nice one), car insurance, health insurance, cell phone, first laptop. Car title will be transferred upon graduation. My boys take advantage of the HOPE scholarship in GA. DD got a full tuition scholarship to a school in the neighboring state (which is actually closer than the GA schools). They must maintain 3.2 gpa, DD made it through, DS1 has very high gpa and 1 more semester and DS2 has decent gpa after 2 years. As far as guiding them toward the right major, we talk about what they want to do and what they are good at. Funny story DS1 started college major undecided. He did not want to listen to Mom and Dad about what to major in. I tried to talk him into Engineering or Math. He took a class his first year called Career Explorations. He said when he heard about being an actuary, he knew right away that was for him. Changed his major to Finance and Economics and has had almost all A's since then. On his own, he studied for the actuary exams and passed the first 2 on the first try and will soon be taking his third. so what if you didn't live in a state with those scholarship options - how much would you have paid then? full tuition scholarships are very rare for all but the top students - did your kids have financial need also? if we had lived in FL or GA DD would have had the scholarship options. here in MD, nothing like that is offered.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jun 23, 2014 9:15:37 GMT -5
DS will be a junior in High School this fall.
We plan to pay as much as we can afford for his college. I would like him to be as close to student loan free as possible. That depends greatly on the college/program that he choses. Currently he very much wants to attend University of Winnipeg which offers reciprocity with Minnesota. He would do three years there and two years at the main University of Minnesota campus. (5 year engineering program)
What we have told him is that our financial support is dependent on his receiving good grades in college. I am not paying for failing classes, retaking classes, etc. He knows that falling grades will get him a year off from school to decide to get his head on straight. I fully plan to drop him at our manufacturing facility working that hard, dirty job for a few months so he can decide what he really wants to do.
We don't micro-manage the Boy. So far he talks to us about his plans for schooling and asks our input. We spend a lot of time talking to him about school, college, what he wants to do, etc. He is the driving force behind picking his major and the colleges he wants to attend. We are planning on doing some college tours over the next year which we will go on with him (more to have a family, road trip style vacation than anything else).
The only suggest we made was that we encouraged him to pick a major/career that would keep his brain actively involved. His brain works on an amazing level and he can process information faster than anyone else that I know. His brain is very logic oriented. My concern was that if he picked a major more in the arts that he would lose interest because it wouldn't challenge his brain enough. Not insulting those degrees I'm just saying for my kid if he's not challenged he checks out. So far he's been ok because he has his engineering classes and activities at school to keep him busy.
My parents- would have paid for everyone (all 4 of us) to go to college. They paid for 100% of the other three kids. Me- I dropped out sophomore year and joined the Air Force. After my 4 years I put myself through college with the GI Bill while working full time. I don't want that for DS. I'd rather he have a more traditional college experience because I feel like I missed out on a lot by being a non-traditional student.
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Malarky
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Post by Malarky on Jun 23, 2014 9:15:35 GMT -5
Well, launching DS didn't turn out quite like we planned. Our deal was that we would pay for the first year of college and he would take out loans for the rest. During that time we would pay car insurance and his cell phone bill. We get no financial assistance at all. He left scholarship money on the table because he didn't do everything he was supposed to do. H e was meant to save money from working the past couple of years. He didn't.
He was an excellent student in high school. Won national awards in computer security and other computer nerd things I never even heard of. Easily got into a great STEM school, UMassLowell. Was meant to potentially transfer in a couple of years.
And failed miserably his first semester. He's always been a bit of a loner, and he freely admitted that he had no idea how to balance his academic and social life because suddenly he found a bunch of like minded people he could relate to. Seeing as how he isn't the first kid to completely screw up his first semester of college, we thought he would go back for the second semester and try again but he chose not to. I have to respect his decision to not waste the money on something he clearly isn't ready for. He also has the most abysmal driving record I've ever even heard of. He totaled the car we gave him in high school and has had several more accidents in the car we loan him. He is so bad, that he is in a special pool for the ridiculously expensive people to insure. His yearly insurance is over $6,000. I am not paying that! We tried taking the car away, but he was spending more than he made on cab fare. The upside of all this is that at 19 years old, with only a HS diploma and the certificates he earned while in HS, he was able to land a tech job that pays over $30,000/year. He says that at this point, he is learning so much and wants to keep working. The down side is that he has to drive to customer sites. Since he is so bad with money, like his father was before he met me, he did what DH did years ago. He gave me complete access to his money to get him on a budget and back on track. I am charging him the full amount for his insurance and phone since he isn't in school and I want the fact that he can't seem to stop running into things to hurt. So his check goes to paying us back, savings and then his allowance which he has to pay for gas and any incidentals out of. It leaves him very little fun money. But it's his fault that his insurance is five times what it should be. And he was always the easy child. He had me convinced that he would sail smoothly through college and into his adult life. DD will be a senior in HS. She's already checking out scholarships and saving money for college. At nearly 17, I'm pushing her to drive so she has more work opportunities. I think she's been traumatized by her brother's experiences. She's very artistic and I've taken to telling everyone who encourages her to go to art school that they can feel free to pay for it. First priority is the ability to feed herself, then she can follow her dreams. She's not Picasso and I'm not Bill Gates so she's going to have to support herself. I don't think she's really been listening to me, however. Her grades suck, and I'm not going to pay for even community college if she can't pull them out of the gutter. It was different when DS flunked one semester, he didn't do that his entire HS career. DD skates by when she could do so much better, but it would interfere with her social life. My mean girl, pink jacket had "Mom" embroidered on it. My kids have had a lot of opportunities, some they've taken advantage of, some they've squandered. I won't do it all for them. They have to do the bulk of the heavy lifting.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Jun 23, 2014 9:28:49 GMT -5
Let me start this out by saying every child is different and only the actual parent can be the best judge in any situation.
In my case my dream was, seriously, to be a comic book artist. Even in HS I knew that wouldn't pay the bills so I thought about medicine since I was already candy stripeing. My mom encourage me to join a special joint volunteer program at our local hospital/nursing home as I was interested in specializing in geriatric care.
I could handle every aspect of the job except the emotional aspect. Quickly figured out I'd be on of the burn outs in a few years. So since I was good with numbers I decided to go into accounting.
My folks would never have supported me getting an art degree, and for that I am grateful as there is no way I had enough talent to earn a living at it. As an adult, I can now acknowledge that. As a child/teenager all of my friends telling me how good I was may have made it more difficult.
As it now, I have a job where I can support my family very well and be able to afford any art supplies I desire for my hobby. For me it works.
DD is too young to really tell yet where she has her strengths and weaknesses. She is good at math and I'm being honest when I say I would encourage her to attain a STEM degree. However, as long as she had a reasonable shot at supporting herself, I would support any advanced education/training - including the trades.
In her case DH and I will likely be able to foot all of an undergrad degree so that gives her some flexibility (IMHO) in that she will not have to earn enough to live on and pay back student loans - which is what I think a lot of those going after their dreams don't take into consideration.
Now if she were to come to me and say her dream is fashion design, sorry - I know for a fact that market is over-saturated, has very low wages for the majority, and you usually have to be connected to even get a foot in the door. If that makes me a horrible person, then so be it. I will not support my child on a path that will likely lead only to pain and disappointment. Especially when she shows no natural apptitude in that area.
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Jun 23, 2014 9:44:16 GMT -5
For our kids, Mom and Dad pay for use of a car ($6k car, not a nice one), car insurance, health insurance, cell phone, first laptop. Car title will be transferred upon graduation. My boys take advantage of the HOPE scholarship in GA. DD got a full tuition scholarship to a school in the neighboring state (which is actually closer than the GA schools). They must maintain 3.2 gpa, DD made it through, DS1 has very high gpa and 1 more semester and DS2 has decent gpa after 2 years. As far as guiding them toward the right major, we talk about what they want to do and what they are good at. Funny story DS1 started college major undecided. He did not want to listen to Mom and Dad about what to major in. I tried to talk him into Engineering or Math. He took a class his first year called Career Explorations. He said when he heard about being an actuary, he knew right away that was for him. Changed his major to Finance and Economics and has had almost all A's since then. On his own, he studied for the actuary exams and passed the first 2 on the first try and will soon be taking his third. so what if you didn't live in a state with those scholarship options - how much would you have paid then? full tuition scholarships are very rare for all but the top students - did your kids have financial need also? if we had lived in FL or GA DD would have had the scholarship options. here in MD, nothing like that is offered. Well when I got laid off from a great job in GA when kids were in 12th, 11th and 9th grade, I chose to stay in GA, take a lower paying job rather than moving to PA where there are very few public school scholarships and tuition is high. Difference is ~$30k per year. There were other reasons I chose to do that also. My DD went to a school in AL that gives full tuition scholarships to out of state students with a certain GPA and SAT. My kids qualified for Pell Grant (only $1000 each) for 2 of the years when there were 2 or 3 in school, but not this year. Other than that it is loans and working part time during school.
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Jun 23, 2014 9:50:58 GMT -5
Malarky - your son sounds a lot like mine. We seriously thought he would go to college, stay in his dorm, have no friends, forget to go to class and fail miserably. But thankfully something about going away to college really clicked with him. He joined several groups, got a super nice girlfriend, had decent grades his first year and awesome since then. He has little idea about everyday financial matters (he overdrafted one of his bank accounts last week because he paid his credit card from the wrong account), this despite his major is Finance and Economics. Surprisingly he has been in only one fender bender.
Sometime you do not know until you let them try first.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2014 10:16:59 GMT -5
My dream was horse trainer or something in the horse industry, in hindsight, I should have just followed that since I pretty much ended up as a failure anyhow. My friend in high school basically accomplished my dream because her dad was rich and built her a 2 million dollar establishment. Now she boards horses and hosts breed shows nearly every weekend. She makes a good living, but the initial investment was enormous. My kids are a ways off from college (oldest is going into 7th grade and youngest just turned 4). Right now my strategy is just offering a plenty of experiences and opportunities to find out where their aptitude and passions lie and a lot of brain-washing about financials and debt. I really don't see the oldest doing anything but going into the sciences or engineering, so a 4 year degree is in his future and I don't think I'll have to worry about it being something that I feel is not going to be marketable. He's hell bent on MIT which I seriously doubt will happen, but I don't discourage it (heck, it would be a free ride if he got in). I am going to scrutinize his high school course choices and push him towards AP and dual enrollment classes. Nobody cared what I took, so I just took the easiest classes I could, I didn't see the point of working harder, but I didn't have any post high school goals either. My Mom was totally hands off as far as my education went and it was a bit too much leaving things up to me. As far as paying, I'll do what I can, but no clue what kind of stipulations will be on the funds yet. I am pretty set on no out of state tuition. With reciprocity he has his choice of MN, WI, ND, SD and Canada at in-state rates, so finding one shouldn't be a problem.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 23, 2014 10:29:38 GMT -5
It's all hypothetical right now, but I have a general idea of what we plan to do. We're not going to break the bank to send her to school. What we have in her 529 is probably what we'll have and then if we can we'll help with things like keeping her on our car insurance and stuff.
I'm not taking out any PLUS loans or co-signing anything, I'll be barely finished paying off my loans there is no way I want to go into retirement with non-dischargable debt.
So if she can't make it on what we have and what she gets in financial we'll have to figure something else out. I was a transfer student and my world didn't end. I figure it's a far better gift for us to be financially stable into our old age than for her to end up supporting us because we financed her "dream".
I will refuse to pay for any "for profit" type schools. Otherwise if she insists on going somewhere out of our financial reach she'll need to figure it out. I plan on being upfront that we only have $X to spend. So if you want to blow it all in one year on College Z that's your choice, or you can go to this college over here and stretch your money out, again your choice.
And it will hinge on grades to an extent. Depending on her major I do not expect her to be a 4.0 student but I do expect her to pass her classes and that will be whatever grade it is the school has determined is passing. For example Simpson would not count D's in majors courses and there isn't any reason someone should flunk a general ed course.
I'm not big on the "do what you love" thing. I don't think you should force yourself to work in a soul sucking position just to make money but I know a lot of people whose "dreams" aren't going to support much of a life beyond the stereotypical "poor college student" lifestyle.
If she thinks that would truly make her happy I am not going to stop her but I'd urge her to strongly consider making that a side hobby project rather than what she does for a living full time. I know quite a few people I went to school with who planned on being drama majors that got a "real" job that pays the bills and spend all their free time doing community theatre.
I'm also not big on the "college is to find yourself" thing or the "college is an experience" thing either. I'm not against switching majors but with the price tag colleges are coming with nowadays (and God knows what it'll be when my kid goes) you should at least have some idea of what you want to do. I am not big on paying $300+ a credit hour so you can "find yourself". If you're that unsure I'll offer up the money to pay for community college first at a much cheaper rate.
If you want the "experience" you'll need to figure out how to get it on what we can pay. If the money runs out before you get serious the situation is what it is.
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Malarky
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Post by Malarky on Jun 23, 2014 10:33:51 GMT -5
I have no doubt that both my kids will be successful adults. They just aren't going to get there by the direct high school/college route.
Then again, neither did DH or I.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2014 10:43:33 GMT -5
It's all hypothetical right now, but I have a general idea of what we plan to do. We're not going to break the bank to send her to school. What we have in her 529 is probably what we'll have and then if we can we'll help with things like keeping her on our car insurance and stuff. I'm not taking out any PLUS loans or co-signing anything, I'll be barely finished paying off my loans there is no way I want to go into retirement with non-dischargable debt.So if she can't make it on what we have and what she gets in financial we'll have to figure something else out. I was a transfer student and my world didn't end. I figure it's a far better gift for us to be financially stable into our old age than for her to end up supporting us because we financed her "dream". I will refuse to pay for any "for profit" type schools. Otherwise if she insists on going somewhere out of our financial reach she'll need to figure it out. I plan on being upfront that we only have $X to spend. So if you want to blow it all in one year on College Z that's your choice, or you can go to this college over here and stretch your money out, again your choice. And it will hinge on grades to an extent. Depending on her major I do not expect her to be a 4.0 student but I do expect her to pass her classes and that will be whatever grade it is the school has determined is passing. For example Simpson would not count D's in majors courses and there isn't any reason someone should flunk a general ed course. I'm not big on the "do what you love" thing. I don't think you should force yourself to work in a soul sucking position just to make money but I know a lot of people whose "dreams" aren't going to support much of a life beyond the stereotypical "poor college student" lifestyle. If she thinks that would truly make her happy I am not going to stop her but I'd urge her to strongly consider making that a side hobby project rather than what she does for a living full time. I know quite a few people I went to school with who planned on being drama majors that got a "real" job that pays the bills and spend all their free time doing community theatre. Same here. I will reach the retirement fund milestone of 59 1/2 four days after youngest son turns 18. My goal is to retire a few years after that, so the last thing I want is to have any debt. No mortgage, no student loans, nothing. My ultimate goal is to get them from high school to whatever career path they choose with no debt on their part either.
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milee
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Post by milee on Jun 23, 2014 10:47:28 GMT -5
Mine, too.
I'm trying to strike a balance between using that to motivate him to do well but also tempering it with not pinning all his hopes on that - it's a huge stretch goal. Good luck to our little nerdy guys.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 23, 2014 10:47:31 GMT -5
If I had a dime for every time I was told I am a horrible excuse for a parent because I won't do "anything" for my children to go college.. .I wouldn't have to worry about PLUS loans.
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