Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2014 10:59:57 GMT -5
A young acquaintance of mine is getting divorced because her husband physically abused her. She fell head-over-heals with this guy and got married fast. She thought he was the one for her because he told her she would never have to work, he would support her. She thought that was the greatest thing ever. What ?!! If a man told me that, I would be offended. I would feel useless. Now, her grandma told her she won't have to work because her mother and step-father will take care of her. (That's where she is living now.) WTH? Is that a goal for some people? Find someone to support them?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jun 19, 2014 11:01:52 GMT -5
It is for some.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jun 19, 2014 11:18:53 GMT -5
I'll support myself with my lottery winnings, thank you very much.
I think it's a very poor goal to have someone support you in life. I also think it's a perfectly ok choice to have a spouse support you when you've stopped supporting yourself to reach a certain goal/lifestyle.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Jun 19, 2014 11:21:56 GMT -5
Yeah, if a man told me that I would run for the hills because in my mind "you never have to work and I will support you" is code for I am a control freak who doesn't want you to leave the house. Honestly, I could not imagine having another person support me. It is one thing if you are family and one spouse needs to stay at home to take care of children or you have worked X years and decide to retire before your spouse, etc. (those situations are very different IMO). In general terms though I couldn't imagine not knowing how to take care of ones self. Her parents and grandma really aren't doing her any favors. What is she going to do when those people pass away? There is nothing wrong with them helping her get back on her feet after the divorce but helping her includes allowing her to become self sufficient. Help her get counseling, help her get a job, help her get her own place...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2014 11:32:00 GMT -5
I wonder about her retirement. Granted she is only 25, but she is paying $00 into social security. Am I anal for thinking about that?
It's not just her. I wonder that about people in their 40s too.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Jun 19, 2014 11:42:34 GMT -5
What ?!! If a man told me that, I would be offended. I would feel useless. Well, I know my worth as a person is not directly related to the income I generate. I personally cringe when I hear people of my parents generation assume that you are worthless as a person unless you bring home a paycheck. I would not be offended. Frankly, i would welcome being supported. It would mean I wouldn't have to stretch myself so thin. I could read a book and work on my hobbies, even. And I could do additional volunteering beyond what I do for my own kids. Our neighborhood public school is desperate for volunteers to work with kids to get them to actually read at grade level. A community center we support is always looking for childcare help so that parents can take ESL classes. I'm not sure how these things are "bad" or useless. Yes, I believe everyone should have skills. There's also more to life than working for a paycheck. ETA: I think SS will be around for us, but that it shouldn't be a major part of one's retirement plan. I'd be more concerned about health insurance than SS.
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CarolinaKat
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Post by CarolinaKat on Jun 19, 2014 11:47:18 GMT -5
Ugh, this reminds me of a conversation my coworkers were having that made me want to punch them. Coworker #1 is a guy in his mid-30s who's wife is due in August with their first baby. She is going to stay home with the baby. He was telling this to coworker #2, who is a 23yo girl who's never had a serious relationship as far as any of us can tell. Here's the convo: CW2: That's so awesome!!! I want a husband that lets me quit and stay with the baby!!! CW1: It's so simple, just marry a guy and badger him into making enough money that he can support the family. Tell him they don't pay him what he's worth and he should ask for raises. That's what *wife* did for me and now I make enough to support us. Pretty damned clever on her part. If you want to stay home with your children that's great. Just don't manipulate your husband into the situation
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CarolinaKat
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Post by CarolinaKat on Jun 19, 2014 11:51:54 GMT -5
Where I work, there are a lot of Stay-at-home spouses connected to my co-workers. There are a significant number of men who stay home with the kids. I think it's the industry I'm in related to the surrounding area. The higher earning spouse goes to work and the lower earning spouse stays home, most of my co-workers male and female, are the higher earning spouse.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jun 19, 2014 11:55:50 GMT -5
I think that's pretty much what my FIL told my MIL before they got married. He has a lot of faults, but he is not controlling her and never did.
Some men do truly believe in that kind of set up.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2014 11:55:53 GMT -5
What ?!! If a man told me that, I would be offended. I would feel useless. Well, I know my worth as a person is not directly related to the income I generate. I personally cringe when I hear people of my parents generation assume that you are worthless as a person unless you bring home a paycheck. I would not be offended. Frankly, i would welcome being supported. It would mean I wouldn't have to stretch myself so thin. I could read a book and work on my hobbies, even. And I could do additional volunteering beyond what I do for my own kids. Our neighborhood public school is desperate for volunteers to work with kids to get them to actually read at grade level. A community center we support is always looking for childcare help so that parents can take ESL classes. I'm not sure how these things are "bad" or useless. Yes, I believe everyone should have skills. There's also more to life than working for a paycheck. ETA: I think SS will be around for us, but that it shouldn't be a major part of one's retirement plan. I'd be more concerned about health insurance than SS. Could you support yourself if you had to? Could you get your own health insurance?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2014 11:57:52 GMT -5
Where I work, there are a lot of Stay-at-home spouses connected to my co-workers. There are a significant number of men who stay home with the kids. I think it's the industry I'm in related to the surrounding area. The higher earning spouse goes to work and the lower earning spouse stays home, most of my co-workers male and female, are the higher earning spouse. That's fine. In the situation I am talking about, there is no spouse. Now who will do the supporting?
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Jun 19, 2014 12:10:09 GMT -5
I have a friend who said on her wedding night her husband pulled out a list of his expectations regarding her wifely duties She didn't go into details about what was on the list but when she got pregnant with their first child they ended up having a huge argument because apparently her not working after children was on the list. She wanted to continue working and told him she would go crazy if she had to stay home all day. She is also an accountant and didn't want to loose her skill set or get put into a situation where she is out of work for a long time and can't find a job. At any rate, they ended up agreeing to her working part-time. This is actually fine with her because she still has time with the kids (they have 2 now). It is still such a strange situation though because she has no idea how much money he has in retirement and he won't tell her. Really this guy is a complete weirdo IMO and I am just afraid he is the type that would make her life absolutely miserable if she ever decided to leave him (e.g. take her to court for full custody of the kids, drag her through the mud trying to make sure she leaves with nothing, etc.).
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Jun 19, 2014 12:12:39 GMT -5
I have a friend who said on her wedding night her husband pulled out a list of his expectations regarding her wifely duties She didn't go into details about what was on the list but when she got pregnant with their first child they ended up having a huge argument because apparently her not working after children was on the list. She wanted to continue working and told him she would go crazy if she had to stay home all day. She is also an accountant and didn't want to loose her skill set or get put into a situation where she is out of work for a long time and can't find a job. At any rate, they ended up agreeing to her working part-time. This is actually fine with her because she still has time with the kids (they have 2 now). It is still such a strange situation though because she has no idea how much money he has in retirement and he won't tell her. Really this guy is a complete weirdo IMO and I am just afraid he is the type that would make her life absolutely miserable if she ever decided to leave him (e.g. take her to court for full custody of the kids, drag her through the mud trying to make sure she leaves with nothing, etc.). I think I might have put serious thought into an annulment, right then and there. yeesh.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Jun 19, 2014 12:17:23 GMT -5
I have a friend who said on her wedding night her husband pulled out a list of his expectations regarding her wifely duties She didn't go into details about what was on the list but when she got pregnant with their first child they ended up having a huge argument because apparently her not working after children was on the list. She wanted to continue working and told him she would go crazy if she had to stay home all day. She is also an accountant and didn't want to loose her skill set or get put into a situation where she is out of work for a long time and can't find a job. At any rate, they ended up agreeing to her working part-time. This is actually fine with her because she still has time with the kids (they have 2 now). It is still such a strange situation though because she has no idea how much money he has in retirement and he won't tell her. Really this guy is a complete weirdo IMO and I am just afraid he is the type that would make her life absolutely miserable if she ever decided to leave him (e.g. take her to court for full custody of the kids, drag her through the mud trying to make sure she leaves with nothing, etc.). I think I might have put serious thought into an annulment, right then and there. yeesh. That was my thought exactly. I asked her what her response was when he pulled out the list and she said she thought it was a joke at first but found out he was serious. She then told him she wasn't sure everything on that list was going to happen. She didn't go into much more detail than that. Personally, I would have tried not to let the door hit my butt on the way out.
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Jun 19, 2014 12:52:17 GMT -5
I'm glad to hear that your acquaintance is leaving a physically abusive relationship. Getting out of that relationship has to be her number one priority. Her family of origin may have some odd and sick ideas, but at least they don't beat her.
Is it possible for her to minimize time with the grandmother who seems intent on telling her that she needs to be supported? Why the hell would anyone tell someone that unless they were trying to justify and rationalize their own decisions?
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moneymaven
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Post by moneymaven on Jun 19, 2014 14:12:10 GMT -5
A young acquaintance of mine is getting divorced because her husband physically abused her. She fell head-over-heals with this guy and got married fast. She thought he was the one for her because he told her she would never have to work, he would support her. She thought that was the greatest thing ever. What ?!! If a man told me that, I would be offended. I would feel useless. Now, her grandma told her she won't have to work because her mother and step-father will take care of her. (That's where she is living now.) WTH? Is that a goal for some people? Find someone to support them? Not a life goal, by any stretch. Though, it would be nice hearing something like this from DH. I am very career oriented and have earned a good living because of my drive and ambition. DH has never expressed any inkling to be a provider in our relationship. He'd much prefer to be a SAHP.
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ZaireinHD
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Post by ZaireinHD on Jun 19, 2014 18:30:32 GMT -5
I thought that's a trophy wife? she doesn't have to work. but doesn't mean she has to stay at home either. what does she like to do? what are her interests?
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ZaireinHD
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Post by ZaireinHD on Jun 19, 2014 18:38:35 GMT -5
I think that's pretty much what my FIL told my MIL before they got married. He has a lot of faults, but he is not controlling her and never did. Some men do truly believe in that kind of set up. right! I mean she could go to college, get a Masters? take self help courses -cooking, painting, electronics, gardening. oh right start a garden, grow stuff
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chen35
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Post by chen35 on Jun 19, 2014 18:39:55 GMT -5
I have a friend who said on her wedding night her husband pulled out a list of his expectations regarding her wifely duties She didn't go into details about what was on the list but when she got pregnant with their first child they ended up having a huge argument because apparently her not working after children was on the list. She wanted to continue working and told him she would go crazy if she had to stay home all day. She is also an accountant and didn't want to loose her skill set or get put into a situation where she is out of work for a long time and can't find a job. At any rate, they ended up agreeing to her working part-time. This is actually fine with her because she still has time with the kids (they have 2 now). It is still such a strange situation though because she has no idea how much money he has in retirement and he won't tell her. Really this guy is a complete weirdo IMO and I am just afraid he is the type that would make her life absolutely miserable if she ever decided to leave him (e.g. take her to court for full custody of the kids, drag her through the mud trying to make sure she leaves with nothing, etc.). None of this came up before the wedding?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2014 18:57:45 GMT -5
I've proven that I'm capable of supporting myself, I've been doing it for years now. I'd be ok with it if my future husband offered to support me so I'd never have to work again. Doesn't mean I'd actually stop working, but it would feel great knowing I don't HAVE to anymore.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2014 19:01:43 GMT -5
Please, I wish a sugar mama would come and support me.
Getting tired of doing all the supporting... I wouldn't mind being the one getting support for once.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2014 19:09:57 GMT -5
I personally don't like the term when its used that way. It sounds like a victim waiting to happen to me.
I think when two people get married they should want and agree to support each other and their family. There are many ways in which to do that, only one of which is securing paid employment. And so, if someone is home, I don't think they should take the position they are 'being supported'... They still have a job to do. They still make a contribution, or should be making one. They should also be supporting their spouse/family, although it is not monetarily. To me, when you accept that definition of 'being supported' that is when it opens up lots of issues. But it could really just be a semantics thing.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 19, 2014 19:17:19 GMT -5
It's weird, but I wonder how many (men and women) are still influenced by those 1940's and 50's ideals of the strong breadwinner and the SAHW as the model for love and family? I know (and am related to) too many hard-core Christians that still embrace the family structure of the 50's. This is how God wants it (according to them.) I suspect both my sisters had "good provider" on the top of their must-have list when choosing a husband. They pity me that I don't live their life. (The feeling is mutual.)
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Jun 19, 2014 19:26:18 GMT -5
FWIW, the only reasons that my mother's repeated warnings to never become completely dependent on another person sunk in were because she started when I was really young (before puberty) and she used her widowed mother as an example. She left it to me to figure out that insurance that kicked in when your mate died would also work if your mate was disabled, a drunk, or abusive. I don't think that the message would have sunk in quite so well if she had presented it differently or later.
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cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on Jun 19, 2014 22:55:41 GMT -5
When I married my ex told me I wasn't going to work. He was afraid his family would think he couldn't support a wife, he couldn't really. So he let me work a little at first low paid work but we needed the money. When he landed a decent job he didn't want me to work. I talked him into it when he wanted to go to college so I took a job. He got upset because I was only getting minimum wage said if I couldn't do better not to bother working. I had taken one class in college so he said I could just go to college full time as long as I got good grades. When I had two years of college I talked him into letting me take a job to get experience. Then we moved and whoever landed a job first took it. Since we moved college would be out of state tuition so he let me keep working. Once in a while he would say "you know you don't have to work, I can support us" so I would say I liked working. Then we bought a really expensive house and one day he said "I guess you have to work now" When I divorced him I had been on the same job about 5 years and kept it the next 7 so it was smooth transition.
He said his mother didn't work and his grandmother didn't work so he didn't want me to work. He wanted me to stay home and raise children but we never got children so it was really boring and poor.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2014 1:06:07 GMT -5
I'd go absolutely mental if I had to stay at home with kids all day. If you could both work part time I think that is the ideal situation! I agree with chiver78 if the wedding night list was anything other than a plan for romance, annulment here I come!
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jun 20, 2014 6:32:25 GMT -5
I would never support a grown adult, period.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Jun 20, 2014 9:01:00 GMT -5
I have a friend who said on her wedding night her husband pulled out a list of his expectations regarding her wifely duties She didn't go into details about what was on the list but when she got pregnant with their first child they ended up having a huge argument because apparently her not working after children was on the list. She wanted to continue working and told him she would go crazy if she had to stay home all day. She is also an accountant and didn't want to loose her skill set or get put into a situation where she is out of work for a long time and can't find a job. At any rate, they ended up agreeing to her working part-time. This is actually fine with her because she still has time with the kids (they have 2 now). It is still such a strange situation though because she has no idea how much money he has in retirement and he won't tell her. Really this guy is a complete weirdo IMO and I am just afraid he is the type that would make her life absolutely miserable if she ever decided to leave him (e.g. take her to court for full custody of the kids, drag her through the mud trying to make sure she leaves with nothing, etc.). None of this came up before the wedding? I actually have no idea. We didn't become friends until after she was already married so I wasn't around for any dating stories. All I know is her DH is one weird dude. When I first met her (before they had kids) he used to keep some kind of nanny cam on their 3 cats during the day so he could go online and check in on them - WTH. What in the world was he expecting to find? They are cats for goodness sakes. They sleep, eat, sit in the window and play with stuffed mice. Maybe he was hoping to catch some funny video he could put on youtube IDK - I thought it was freaking weird when she told me that. Then they went to Hawaii for 2 weeks and I was helping take care of the cats. Every time I went there to feed, scoop the litter, etc. I kept wondering if I was currently being watched or if he was recording me on the hidden camera to be viewed later.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2014 9:11:06 GMT -5
I love self-supporting people. It is much easier for me to have conversation with them. There are a few "dependent" people I socialize with, and we do not have much to talk about. They just don't understand.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Jun 20, 2014 9:23:37 GMT -5
I've proven that I'm capable of supporting myself, I've been doing it for years now. I'd be ok with it if my future husband offered to support me so I'd never have to work again. Doesn't mean I'd actually stop working, but it would feel great knowing I don't HAVE to anymore. -secret-That's what your retirement savings are for. I know I am perhaps "too independent" in my thinking, but I wouldn't ever want to hear some guy think it was ok to come and sweep me off my feet and "rescue" me or "take care" of me. Why is he to be the strong one and I not? Why is he to provide and me to be provided for? What does that really say about what he thinks is the power dynamic in society and within a relationship? That is what would kill it for me. Not the supporting per se - but the very idea that a man would assume that role and what it says about his ideas on society and relationships. It would mean we were not compatible in that sense.Same here but it goes a little bit deeper than that for me... My mother didn't work until I was 12 yrs old and when I was a kid I remember her having to go to my father for money. It never sat well with me. My father is a wonderful person. He was not controlling of my mother, etc. but my dad did control the finances. I remember him going through the check book and sometimes he would question what she purchased. He never got upset about it but the fact that she didn't have her "own" money rubbed me the wrong way. I am an extremely independent person and I refuse to justify what I spend to anyone but myself. This is one reason I will never co-mingle finances or depend on anyone to support me. I make my own money and I spend it as I see fit.
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