I'll support you.

[zibazinski]

F that nonsense.

[Bonny]

<p>My parents initially had that "traditional" marriage. They were married in 1959.</p><p><br></p><p>I remember what a huge fight they had when Mom went back to "work" (like she was sitting on her butt all day watching soap operas and eating bon-bons <img alt=" " src="http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/rolleyes2.gif" text="">). It was a HUGE emotional slap in the face for my dad. Not just because it was the times but because his mother had effectively been a single mom. My grandfather was an alcoholic and apparently "invested" his paycheck in the bar and the bar floozies. Because they were Catholic they never divorced but lived separately for most of their marriage. I always suspected (and recently confirmed) that my grandmother beat into my dad's brain that a "good" husband provided for his family so the wife wouldn't have to work.</p><p><br></p><p>Even today Dad tries to use the sqeezy argument that it made no economic sense for my mother to work outside the home with the cost of clothing, gas, car and having a housekeeper 2x month. Since their financial situation had always been complicated and a little questionable it's hard to say if he was correct. In any case he STILL seems to not understand that Mom was a smart woman who needed to do more than wait on two pre-teens. She also needed to be out from under his control and wanted more material things than he thought were necessary. We were talking about it the other day and I pointed that there were holes in the carpet in the family home, no money to replace it and I didn't blame her for wanting something better. </p><p><br></p><p>Within two years of her going to work she was out (gross) earning him. Therefore when he got the news that his company's contract in San Diego was being terminated they chose not to relocate back to Rhode Island in order to keep his job. Instead he wound up joining her in the real estate business. Although they tried to work together as a team they were not very compatible and fought so much the owner of the business had to separate them in different offices. <img alt=" " src="http://images.proboards.com/new/shocked.gif" text=""> </p><p><br></p><p>From about 1975 my mother always out-earned my father. That was the role model I grew up with. I can't recall ever thinking that I wasn't going to work outside the home. And for a while I supported ex DH until I finally woke up and realized that he was a lazy bum who was never going to get his act together. Can you imagine my rage listening to my dad and him make sexist remarks about women when we were supporting their lazy butts? <img alt=" " src="http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/angry2.png" text=""></p><p><br></p><p>Therefore I find it ironic that from about age 42 I have been the "supported wife". Part of me wonders if part of the reason I got so into the rentals is that I felt the need to make myself a job. Although DH always out earned me over half of our NW is in real estate. Hmmm something to think about.</p>

[goldensam]

Jun 20, 2014 9:01:00 GMT -5 movingforward said:

Jun 19, 2014 18:39:55 GMT -5 chen35 said:

None of this came up before the wedding?

I actually have no idea.  We didn't become friends until after she was already married so I wasn't around for any dating stories.  All I know is her DH is one weird dude.  When I first met her (before they had kids) he used to keep some kind of nanny cam on their 3 cats during the day so he could go online and check in on them - WTH.  What in the world was he expecting to find?  They are cats for goodness sakes.  They sleep, eat, sit in the window and play with stuffed mice.  Maybe he was hoping to catch some funny video he could put on youtube IDK - I thought it was freaking weird when she told me that.  Then they went to Hawaii for 2 weeks and I was helping take care of the cats.  Every time I went there to feed, scoop the litter, etc. I kept wondering if I was currently being watched or if he was recording me on the hidden camera to be viewed later. 

Is that weird?  We have cameras inside and outside our house, as do many of our neighbors.  We had a slew of burglaries last year that put everyone on high alert.  An added bonus is that I get to check in my dogs during the day.  Yeah, they just sleep and watch for squirrels out the window, but I like knowing that they are ok.  Plus they are cute.  We don't use them to watch anyone who might be in our house, though, like the groomer when she comes in (she has a key). That would be creepy.

Before we put in the surveillance cameras, we had two little puppy cams set up to keep an eye on the dogs while we were away.  I don't think that's weird.

[Deleted]

It was a long time ago, but I didn't work when I was married. I took care of the kids and the house and did what I could to make his life easier. I also controlled the money. He brought his check home, I took it to the bank (sometimes I even signed it myself) and did whatever needed to be done with the money. The only question he'd ask sometimes was "do we have enough money for X". Not controlling at all. The bills got paid on time and we all had what we needed, so he wasnt all that interested in knowing details. Lucky for him, I'm an honest woman.

My only regret when we broke up was that I didn't go to school or something while he was taking care of me. Other than that, I don't see anything wrong with it if both parties are in full agreement. Everybody is different.

[bean29]

Jun 19, 2014 11:47:18 GMT -5 CarolinaKat said:

Ugh, this reminds me of a conversation my coworkers were having that made me want to punch them. Coworker #1 is a guy in his mid-30s who's wife is due in August with their first baby. She is going to stay home with the baby. He was telling this to coworker #2, who is a 23yo girl who's never had a serious relationship as far as any of us can tell. Here's the convo:

CW2: That's so awesome!!! I want a husband that lets me quit and stay with the baby!!!
CW1: It's so simple, just marry a guy and badger him into making enough money that he can support the family. Tell him they don't pay him what he's worth and he should ask for raises. That's what *wife* did for me and now I make enough to support us. Pretty damned clever on her part.


If you want to stay home with your children that's great. Just don't manipulate your husband into the situation

Umm, so CK, can we assume since you are female any you don't need to "support your spouse and dependent children" that you are underpaid  It is an unappealing message on many fronts.

[souldoubt]

A friend of a friend who has her masters has a husband who refuses to let her work.  She wanted to go back to work and didn't want to be a stay at home mom once her first kid was off to school.  She had child #1 some years back and after complications with that pregnancy she was told pregnancy #2 may be off the table.  Fast forward so many years and after getting the go ahead from her doctor they had child #2.  Her husband is happy because he always wanted a big family (never mind that they live in a 2 bedroom place they're underwater on) and now with a child who's too young for school his wife will be a stay at home wife for at least the next 4+ years.

One of my buddies met a real gem of a woman who he knocked up a few months in.  It takes two to tango and I split the blame 50/50 on that but anyone who saw it unfold knew she was looking for a meal ticket.  To their credit they tried to make it work but he's now supporting her and their child while she's got a new meal ticket who seems smart enough to not get her pregnant.  The woman has no desire to work, complains when she does have to work and expects to be taken care.  Meeting her mom you can see the apple didn't fall far from the tree. 

[movingforward]

In general it really is shocking the number of people (male and female) who are perfectly fine with relying on someone else to support them.  I am not talking about SAHPs here (to me those people contribute to the family) but rather adults who are perfectly content to live off their parents, parents who's retirement plan is to live off their children, women who get pregnant a 2nd or 3rd time just so they don't have to go back to work (yep, sad to say I have come across two people who admitted that)... it truly is shameful.  These are the type of things I just don't understand. 

[Deleted]

I would NEVER put my financial future in the hands of another. 

[movingforward]

Jun 20, 2014 13:53:13 GMT -5 @ezzie said:

I would NEVER put my financial future in the hands of another. 

X100

[Deleted]

Jun 20, 2014 12:59:57 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

It was a long time ago, but I didn't work when I was married. I took care of the kids and the house and did what I could to make his life easier. I also controlled the money. He brought his check home, I took it to the bank (sometimes I even signed it myself) and did whatever needed to be done with the money. The only question he'd ask sometimes was "do we have enough money for X". Not controlling at all. The bills got paid on time and we all had what we needed, so he wasnt all that interested in knowing details. Lucky for him, I'm an honest woman.

My only regret when we broke up was that I didn't go to school or something while he was taking care of me. Other than that, I don't see anything wrong with it if both parties are in full agreement. Everybody is different.

Totally agreed- that's how it worked for may parents and all 3 of my brothers and their wives (all still happily married) and that's what DS and his wife have decided.  It's really taking care of each other, except that one bears 100% of the financial part of "taking care" and the other, in return, does more of the other tasks.

I'd be very suspicious of a husband who absolutely did not want me to have a job, regardless of the reason.  I broke up with a guy in college because he wanted a wife who'd be a SAHM.  We're still friends 40 years later (FB only; we live far from each other) but I never wanted the SAHM life and neither of us would budge.  I don't regret that.  Not wanting your wife to have a job might be a genuine concern for (future) kids, which I think it was in his case, or it might be a control issue.

Years ago I dated a guy whose wife had been carrying on with another man.  He was married, too.  Boyfriend sweet-talked her into getting a divorce, saying that then he'd divorce his wife and they'd buy a trailer and live near the Jersey Shore and she'd never have to work again.  She bought it and divorced my friend.  And of course you know the rest- her boyfriend never got around to divorcing his wife.

 

[imawino]

Jun 20, 2014 13:51:10 GMT -5 souldoubt said:

A friend of a friend who has her masters has a husband who refuses to let her work.  She wanted to go back to work and didn't want to be a stay at home mom once her first kid was off to school.  She had child #1 some years back and after complications with that pregnancy she was told pregnancy #2 may be off the table.  Fast forward so many years and after getting the go ahead from her doctor they had child #2.  Her husband is happy because he always wanted a big family (never mind that they live in a 2 bedroom place they're underwater on) and now with a child who's too young for school his wife will be a stay at home wife for at least the next 4+ years.

One of my buddies met a real gem of a woman who he knocked up a few months in.  It takes two to tango and I split the blame 50/50 on that but anyone who saw it unfold knew she was looking for a meal ticket.  To their credit they tried to make it work but he's now supporting her and their child while she's got a new meal ticket who seems smart enough to not get her pregnant.  The woman has no desire to work, complains when she does have to work and expects to be taken care.  Meeting her mom you can see the apple didn't fall far from the tree. 

How does that even happen?  How does someone prevent an adult from going to work?  While the husband in this scenario may be a controlling dick, what we also have here is a well-educated woman who refuses to assert herself.  Or she just likes to say she wants to work when she really doesn't and uses the husband as a convenient scapegoat. 

[8 Bit WWBG]

...:::"Getting tired of doing all the supporting... I wouldn't mind being the one getting support for once.":::...

Seriously!  When I think of what I could get done if I didn't have to fit my living into tiny compartmentalized hours...

[movingforward]

I broke up with a guy in college because he wanted a wife who'd be a SAHM

Same here... A huge red flag went up when I was deciding a major and was contemplating criminology (ended up choosing something else).  He responded with I just can't see you as a criminologist and I said well, what do you see me doing?  He said staying at home and taking care of kids.  Holy crap do you KNOW me AT ALL!!  I was honestly speechless because we had been dating for 2 yrs and I had mentioned several times that I intended to have a career.  I already knew he had a few "issues" because he seemed to have a big fear that I was going to make more money than him.  His mom had always stayed at home and he was never made to do ANYTHING around the house.  He actually ended up proposing to me at the end of my junior year.  I knew in my gut this was just not going to work out.  Thank goodness I had the hindsight to see divorce was in my future if I married this man.  This is why I think it is so important for people not to marry too young because many times the person you are with at 20 is nothing like the person you want to be with at 35.  Not saying all... there are certainly some couples that married young and completely happy but for many it ends up being an unhappy marriage and/or a divorce.

[8 Bit WWBG]

...:::"he used to keep some kind of nanny cam on their 3 cats during the day so he could go online and check in on them - WTH. What in the world was he expecting to find? They are cats for goodness sakes. They sleep, eat, sit in the window and play with stuffed mice.":::...

I've considered this myself.  Who knows what they do once we leave!

[movingforward]

Jun 20, 2014 16:12:00 GMT -5 imawino said:

Jun 20, 2014 13:51:10 GMT -5 souldoubt said:

A friend of a friend who has her masters has a husband who refuses to let her work.  She wanted to go back to work and didn't want to be a stay at home mom once her first kid was off to school.  She had child #1 some years back and after complications with that pregnancy she was told pregnancy #2 may be off the table.  Fast forward so many years and after getting the go ahead from her doctor they had child #2.  Her husband is happy because he always wanted a big family (never mind that they live in a 2 bedroom place they're underwater on) and now with a child who's too young for school his wife will be a stay at home wife for at least the next 4+ years.

One of my buddies met a real gem of a woman who he knocked up a few months in.  It takes two to tango and I split the blame 50/50 on that but anyone who saw it unfold knew she was looking for a meal ticket.  To their credit they tried to make it work but he's now supporting her and their child while she's got a new meal ticket who seems smart enough to not get her pregnant.  The woman has no desire to work, complains when she does have to work and expects to be taken care.  Meeting her mom you can see the apple didn't fall far from the tree. 

How does that even happen?  How does someone prevent an adult from going to work?  While the husband in this scenario may be a controlling dick, what we also have here is a well-educated woman who refuses to assert herself.  Or she just likes to say she wants to work when she really doesn't and uses the husband as a convenient scapegoat. 

  My aunt will say things like "DH is not going to let me do that" - WTF... look lady, you are a grown ass adult not a 3rd grader.  She has been in an unhappy marriage for years and is now 63.  She thinks it is too late to leave now so just deals with it.  The last time I was visiting she stated that she wished she had never gotten married 40 yrs ago.  How sad to spent your entire life with someone that makes you miserable. 

[Deleted]

Jun 20, 2014 9:11:06 GMT -5 @bluester said:

I love self-supporting people. It is much easier for me to have conversation with them. There are a few "dependent" people I socialize with, and we do not have much to talk about. They just don't understand.

I guess I'd be curious as to your definitions of 'dependent' people...

Now my college boyfriend was older than me, and he had a nice friend whose girlfriend was a piece of work. She said that she didn't want to work once she had kids. I said, but you told me last week you want a nanny when you have kids... she said oh I do, I want both... a nanny and not to work...

I ran into him a few week ago, divorced, he has the kids... can't say I was surprised in the least. If that is the type of person you are referring to... ?

[kittensaver]

Well LOL after reading this thread I think it's time to resurrect the common vs. separate potters debate!  Remember that if you would never ever let someone control your finances then you don't have a "real marriage."

[movingforward]

Jun 20, 2014 16:40:56 GMT -5 kittensaver said:

Well LOL after reading this thread I think it's time to resurrect the common vs. separate potters debate!  Remember that if you would never ever let someone control your finances then you don't have a "real marriage."

Shoot, I am not even a "real woman" because I prefer animals over children. 

[resolution]

Well I feel happy and secure knowing that if anything happens with my job that DH is willing to support me. I will be doing the same for him starting next week when he gets back from the temporary job he was trying out. I don't think either of us would want to be the sole support for a lifetime, but it is nice to rely on each other during times of transition.

[Deleted]

Jun 20, 2014 8:00:34 GMT -5 @tbird said:

Jun 19, 2014 18:57:45 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

I've proven that I'm capable of supporting myself, I've been doing it for years now. I'd be ok with it if my future husband offered to support me so I'd never have to work again. Doesn't mean I'd actually stop working, but it would feel great knowing I don't HAVE to anymore.

-secret-That's what your retirement savings are for.

I know I am perhaps "too independent" in my thinking, but I wouldn't ever want to hear some guy think it was ok to come and sweep me off my feet and "rescue" me or "take care" of me.

Why is he to be the strong one and I not? Why is he to provide and me to be provided for?

What does that really say about what he thinks is the power dynamic in society and within a relationship? That is what would kill it for me. Not the supporting per se - but the very idea that a man would assume that role and what it says about his ideas on society and relationships. It would mean we were not compatible in that sense.

Well, it will be at least 15 years before I can access my retirement money. I don't see how that counts as me not having to work now.

I'm independant too. Honestly, I'm so used to everything being my way and it's been that way for so long, I'm not sure I'd even know how to act trying to be married to someone. BUT, if I did get married and my husband wanted to and could give me a chance to do something different as far as working, I wouldn't be offended. As much as I moan and groan about working, I still would never voluntarily put myself in a position where I couldn't take care of myself if the shit hit the fan. Even if I left my current job, I'd use my time wisely and still have something going on for myself.

It's true that some people use money as a means of control. That's not the kind of man I would marry. And if I discovered my husband hid that tendency until after we were married, I would leave. I'm willing to make reasonable compromises, but I won't be controlled.

I ended up being a SAHM because I'd always been honest about not wanting my children to go to daycare if/when I had them. I was working p/t when I got pregnant, I got sick and quit. I did work a few part time jobs while we were married but that was just to have something to do and my schedule had to work around his or when our family was available and willing to keep my babies. He never pressured me to get a job. He knew how I felt about daycare well before I got pregnant and he didn't have a problem with it.

I don't think that means that he thought he was stronger than me, or any other negative ideas about me or our relationship. It simply meant that we both agreed on how we would function as parents and partners.

And here's what I mostly keep to myself on these boards because so many other people strongly disagree. For ME and MY relationships, I mostly believe in traditional roles in relationships. Men are suppose to provide and protect, women are suppose to nurture. I'm old fashioned that way. But I'm also modern enough to believe that women should be able to take care of themselves, regardless and period. I'm also modern enough to believe that it's ok that other people don't think like I do about roles in relationships. Please keep that in mind when the flaming starts.

[lynnerself]

My parents were married in 1950 and had a very traditional and very good marriage.
It lasted 53 years until they both passed away. Mom was stay at home and raised 4 kids.
They loved each other a lot and made major financial decisions together. They respected each other and just considered it a division of labor.

However, I still remember cringing when Mom told us not to tell Dad what we spent shopping. Or when Dad complained about the cost of groceries. It seemed like such a weird dynamic. Mom knew the budget just as well as Dad.

They did evolve as they grew older. And both Mom and Dad wanted all of us, boys or girls, to go to college be able to support ourselves.

[Deleted]

Jun 19, 2014 19:01:43 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

Please, I wish a sugar mama would come and support me.

Getting tired of doing all the supporting... I wouldn't mind being the one getting support for once.

Your wife works. How do you figure that you are "doing all the supporting"?

This is something of a sore point with me because most of my married life the jobs I held were belittled because DH earned 3X as much as I did (and sometimes more). The private school teaching job did let our kids go there for half-tuition, but apparently that didn't count.  When I was a SAHP, my ex actually said to me, "I need good clothes, and you don't."  Huh?  I knew he really meant that he needed professional clothes, and I didn't.  But that really came out totally wrong.

People aren't defined by their paycheck.   I'll amend that . . . they shouldn't be.  I work hard, but a teacher in a poor school district in Alabama that doesn't supplement the state matrix may work even harder.  My students have school-issued Ipads.  His/her students may not have even seen an Ipad.

I won't begin to pretend that I work harder because I get paid more.  My example, by the way, compares apples to apples.

[resolution]

My mom was a SAHM and she handled all the finances. Dad is the relaxed one who would happily hand over his pay check so she could manage things. He used to drive her crazy because he would carry a few blank checks in his wallet for emergencies and then forget to tell her when he spent one. I remember her sitting at the table for hours trying to find a missing three cents in the check register because she just couldn't let it go. 

[Deleted]

Jun 20, 2014 17:43:32 GMT -5 lynnerself said:

My parents were married in 1950 and had a very traditional and very good marriage.
It lasted 53 years until they both passed away. Mom was stay at home and raised 4 kids.
They loved each other a lot and made major financial decisions together. They respected each other and just considered it a division of labor.

However, I still remember cringing when Mom told us not to tell Dad what we spent shopping. Or when Dad complained about the cost of groceries. It seemed like such a weird dynamic. Mom knew the budget just as well as Dad.

They did evolve as they grew older. And both Mom and Dad wanted all of us, boys or girls, to go to college be able to support ourselves.

When I was married, older women use to advise me to hide a little money for myself, or hide purchases from him. 1. It wasn't necessary. The only reason I could think of to hide money was for a "get away" stash and he wasn't abusing or mistreating me or the kids so why would I do that. Anything big I wanted to save for, he knew about it. He didn't care what I bought as long as I took care of our financial business first and I wasn't a big shopper anyway. 2. I felt that if he trusted me enough to hand over his paycheck each and every week and not question me about what I did with it, I should be honest and upfront and not abuse that trust.

Maybe some women felt/feel it necessary to play those games in their marriages, but I'm not much of a game-player.

ETA: On rereading my post, it seems I may have been implying that your Mom was playing games. I was strictly referring to the older women that use to offer me advice. Apologies if it read differently.

[Deleted]

@pinkcshmere, my grandmother defined a good husband as one that didn't hit you and handed his paycheck over every Friday.  Of course, she was born in 1892 so it was different time period.  Still, it struck me as a way too practical definition of a "good" husband.

My son, who is a CPA, has a SAHP.  I am not sure he could do his job if she didn't stay at home.  They have four kids, so daycare would be expensive.  He doesn't get home until 7 or 8 most nights and works a lot of weekends.

My daughter, who is a pharmacist, works part-time.  As a lawyer at a big firm in our area, her husband earns good money.  I think what she earns funds private school, vacations, etc.  They are fairly conservative with their spending.  (An aunt owns a condo at the beach that used to belong to the family business so vacations at the beach are free.)  I am proud of her for still working.  If anything happens, which doesn't have to be divorce, she has kept her high-earning skill set intact.  But she has the joy of both worlds. 

[Deleted]

Jun 20, 2014 18:02:08 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

When I was married, older women use to advise me to hide a little money for myself, or hide purchases from him. 1. It wasn't necessary. The only reason I could think of to hide money was for a "get away" stash and he wasn't abusing or mistreating me or the kids so why would I do that.

My Ex's grandmother told her daughters, "you should always have a little money set aside that your husband doesn't know about". This was form a woman who had a strong marriage, and whose daughters also (from what I could tell) had good, loving marriages. I did have to hide money from the Ex. Early in the relationship, whatever I could put aside, he found something we HAD to spend it on. (His "wants", mostly.) I learned not to tell him what I had saved although he knew where to turn when we needed a new roof or the water heater died. I didn't have to hide purchases from him. Consumption was good. Real jewelry and expensive clothes were good. The more, the better.

My relationship with current DH is much healthier. The only time I ever felt I had to hide purchases from him was when I'd buy DS another video game because I knew he'd say, "Honey, you know those games aren't good for him". I'd still tell him anyway. I knew he was right. He knows what we have in assets but doesn't have any urgent uses for it. When I buy myself something his response is, "Good".

[movingforward]

In all fairness to my father, my mom had no desire to handle the finances.  They had a wonderful marriage for 44 yrs but my mother was very dependent upon my dad.  I just knew I never wanted to be that dependent on another human being.  Right now though I could handle about 6 months off.  Anyone want to support me just for that long 

[Deleted]

Jun 20, 2014 18:27:19 GMT -5 movingforward said:

In all fairness to my father, my mom had no desire to handle the finances.  They had a wonderful marriage for 44 yrs but my mother was very dependent upon my dad.  I just knew I never wanted to be that dependent on another human being.

When DH's stepfather died, his mother didn't know how to write a check. I've seen very happy marriages where one person handles 100% of the finances and the other just spends when needed/wanted, but I've also seen a few disasters.  One friend didn't know her husband was buying stock on margin in the dot-com bubble till half their retirement savings were gone.  When Dad decided to start buying stocks in the 1960s, he and Mom agreed on what he could invest but Mom had no interest in his investment decisions.  That worked, too. 

[Deleted]

I agree, in the manner the term is being used in the OP it's suspect and not something I'd pursue...

[daisy]

Jun 20, 2014 12:59:57 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

It was a long time ago, but I didn't work when I was married. I took care of the kids and the house and did what I could to make his life easier. I also controlled the money. He brought his check home, I took it to the bank (sometimes I even signed it myself) and did whatever needed to be done with the money. The only question he'd ask sometimes was "do we have enough money for X". Not controlling at all. The bills got paid on time and we all had what we needed, so he wasnt all that interested in knowing details. Lucky for him, I'm an honest woman.

My only regret when we broke up was that I didn't go to school or something while he was taking care of me. Other than that, I don't see anything wrong with it if both parties are in full agreement. Everybody is different.

My first marriage was similar to yours Pink Cashmere.  I "tried" college right out of HS but it wasn't a good fit so I started working full time, married my ex and we lived well.  Bought a house, nice cars, a boat etc.  His income increased and we decided to have a family and I was amenable to being a stay at home mom.  I did that gig for 15 years and worked on and off during the girl's childhood.  

Eventually I agreed to my mother's pleas to "get a degree in SOMETHING please" so I started at the local CC with the intent to tx to a Uni.  ( I am the only one in my family with no degree, parents and sibs are all at Masters level).  Life happened in the form of a divorce and cancer so my degree went on the back burner.  After a carotid dissection and stroke I have realized that it won't ever happen.  My short term memory is shot and struggling to complete an Associates doesn't sound like a great time.  

I now putter at a well-paying part time job and yes, DH does support me as his income is something like 6 times mine but it works for us.  My children are both on a career track so I am excited to see where life takes them.