milee
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Post by milee on Jun 30, 2014 11:41:23 GMT -5
He probably did delete them. Techs can dig up deleted Google searches. If he had deleted the searches, I would find that more incriminating than if he didn't. As several others have mentioned, we all do odd searches sometimes. Deleting them indicates another layer of deception than just idle curiosity.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Jun 30, 2014 12:27:20 GMT -5
Back to the original topic is this really the most dangerous thing people do in the course of parenting? How many people really have their cars stolen while they are in the store paying for their gas? Does this really happen more often than kids get into the family swimming pool and drown? I am not trying to be snarky I really don't know. My mom lives in Phoenix and she says she hears about one death a day from drowning in a family pool. And from what she says most have things like fences and child locks to supposedly make them safe. My read on it it "seems" to happen much more often than than the car snatching thing, yet everyone is up in arms about this, but no one gets up in arms about the very real danger of drowning in the family pool.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2014 15:30:23 GMT -5
IT people can be stupid too. First ex and the CEO of the company he works for got their credit cards stolen at work. The guy worked in the IT department and used their cards to order stuff off Amazon using his work computer. Ex tracked him down and the CEO prosecuted (ex didn't really want to). He was from Bangladesh and had just graduated from the local university and got this job. He was deported.
I'm just having a real hard time believing the mom and dad were both in on killing their son. One, sick but maybe? Both? Eh...
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jun 30, 2014 16:02:40 GMT -5
I'm just having a real hard time believing the mom and dad were both in on killing their son. One, sick but maybe? Both? Eh... I try not to underestimate how truly horrible people can be. One of the reasons I try to avoid the news if possible - I really don't want to read about someone that would intentionally kill their kid in this manner (there was a CSI on this once), or someone that would superglue their kids hands to the wall as punishment, or that mom that left her toddler for like 70 hours straight & the kid died of dehydration. I know they are in the minority, but some people are just fucking horrible and now that I have kids I want to cry whenever I think of someone putting their kids through stuff like this.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2014 16:08:03 GMT -5
I hope I never get brought in after a game of Cards Against Humanity...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2014 18:08:54 GMT -5
"is this really the most dangerous thing people do in the course of parenting? How many people really have their cars stolen while they are in the store paying for their gas? Does this really happen more often than kids get into the family swimming pool and drown? "
I guess i am not getting the need for this comparison. So you will pick the most dangerous thing that can be done as a parent and make sure you won 't do that and the rest is ok to do??? Why do you all keep comparing this to a different way to put a kid in danger? It is not like if your kud is safe from drowning, there is no way he will die or get kidnapped for being left in a car. Again, like another poster said, the chances may be 1 in a million but i bet if your kid was that 1 in the million, you would kick yourself for choosing convenience!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2014 18:13:51 GMT -5
"Everyone said, I'm calling the cops right now. No waiting a couple minutes. Suddenly it is yeah, I would wait a couple minutes. "
By the time you look around and call it will be at least a couple of minutes. It is not like anyone would be walking by the car and as soon as they see a kid in a car, they dial 911. With the logic you are using here and from what you and some of the others said, should i conclude that you will never call the cops even if you saw a baby suffering in a car because you would myob? If you are really gone for 5 minutes, you would be back before my phone call is concluded or most likely before i even take my phone out unless you left 10 seconds before i saw your kid.
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Jun 30, 2014 19:03:05 GMT -5
If they were Googling this info. to educate themselves I'm pretty sure they'd not have left the kid in the car because they'd be so worried about it they wanted to learn more and probably also to learn what to do if there was a mistake made. I admit to being a bit neurotic if I worry about something like forgetting a baby/child in a hot car so I would constantly check and recheck. I now feel they may have Googled it to learn how to make it look like that's what they did because based on articles I've read the police suspect the child was already dead and this was to make it look like it was an accident. And if that is true - had a nosy nelly reported it sooner they would have known the child was already dead and it had nothing to do with being left in the car.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Jun 30, 2014 20:57:27 GMT -5
"is this really the most dangerous thing people do in the course of parenting? How many people really have their cars stolen while they are in the store paying for their gas? Does this really happen more often than kids get into the family swimming pool and drown? " I guess i am not getting the need for this comparison. So you will pick the most dangerous thing that can be done as a parent and make sure you won 't do that and the rest is ok to do Why do you all keep comparing this to a different way to put a kid in danger? It is not like if your kud is safe from drowning, there is no way he will die or get kidnapped for being left in a car. Again, like another poster said, the chances may be 1 in a million but i bet if your kid was that 1 in the million, you would kick yourself for choosing convenience! Having a pool in your yard is probably one of the most dangerous things you can do. Leaving a kid in the car while you pay your gas bill isn't. There are literally kids who die every day from drowning in their own pool. So why is having a pool not considered a dangerous choice as a parent? A one in a million chance of dying is a stupid thing to think about. Not because it would be okay for any child to die but because there are literally THOUSANDS of things that we all do every single day of our lives that have that chance of death. There is almost no end to the list of things that would have to be on that list. I would bet the chances of dying from being struck by lightening are that high. So do we never go outside? What are the chances of being killed in a tornado in Kansas? Do we make everyone move? There is literally no end to this. The best a parent can do is make an actual informed choice of what are low risk things that they can feel comfortable doing with their child and stop worrying about every single last thing that could possibly happen.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2014 21:04:21 GMT -5
"So why is having a pool not considered a dangerous choice as a parent?"
Again, I am not getting the point of your comparison. I am not saying having a pool is not dangerous. And we are not making a list of everything that is or is not dangerous. I am not discussing what the laws say either. I am discussing what i would do as a person no matter what the law says. Why can't we discuss "leaving kids/babies alone in cars" without adding unrelated other dangerous events?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2014 21:06:30 GMT -5
"I would bet the chances of dying from being struck by lightening are that high. "
Getting hit by lightining is not due to your negligence unless you decide to hold on to a metal stick. However, if something happens to your kid because you left him/her in the car, it is directly a result of your negligence.
Also, you can choose whatever you want to do with your child. All i am saying is if i am that stranger that spots your young child or baby unattended in a car, i am calling for help because i would have no clue how long you would be gone, if he is forgotten or left intentionally or what.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2014 21:13:01 GMT -5
"A one in a million chance of dying is a stupid thing to think about. Not because it would be okay for any child to die but because there are literally THOUSANDS of things that we all do every single day of our lives that have that chance of death. There is almost no end to the list of things that would have to be on that list. "
That number was just an example. The chances are more than 1 in a million if i recall earlier posts. Yes there are all kinds of things we do everyday but this to me is an unnecessary risk and i can control it so i personally will not take that risk (among with many other risks that i can control). You decide which risks you want to take which you dont want to for your situation and kids. I am not telling anyone dont leave your kid. I am just saying i will call someone.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Jun 30, 2014 21:34:17 GMT -5
"So why is having a pool not considered a dangerous choice as a parent?" Again, I am not getting the point of your comparison. I am not saying having a pool is not dangerous. And we are not making a list of everything that is or is not dangerous. I am not discussing what the laws say either. I am discussing what i would do as a person no matter what the law says. Why can't we discuss "leaving kids/babies alone in cars" without adding unrelated other dangerous events? Everything has risk. The entire discussion is about quantifing risk in our everyday lives. There are NOT lots of kids dying from being carjacked. That is the whole reason it makes such big news, because it isn't common. So why is everyone up in arms about the thing that almost never happens and not the things that does pose a real risk? It is a valid question because having a pool that isn't fenced from within the yard is legal in most states. The fed gov has the stats and knows it is a big risk, yet it is perfectly legal and even when children die it is almost never prosecuted as a crime. Yet there are things that don't pose much if any risk that are treated as inherantly dangerous and prosecuted as if the person abused the child. I;m not saying carjackings don't happen but if you are in a hood where it is common you probably have a pretty good chance of getting jacked at the red light too.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 30, 2014 21:36:04 GMT -5
If anyone is wondering why I like both bunnysmom's and 973's posts, it's because both have good points
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Jun 30, 2014 21:38:48 GMT -5
One of the hardest parts of being a parent was realizing i couldn't make them perfectly safe. The best we can do is literally the best we can do and worrying about every single bad thing that could possibly happen would have just made me insane and them miserable.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2014 22:13:13 GMT -5
"So why is everyone up in arms about the thing that almost never happens and not the things that does pose a real risk? "
I understand what you are saying and i agree but the OP is not about everything under the sun, it is about leaving a kid in a car. There is a specific topic. Should i just start writing some random stuff in every post that is not relevant to the OP? I am not saying there aren't more dangerous situations. I am just saying those other situations are not the topic in this thread.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2014 22:22:23 GMT -5
"One of the hardest parts of being a parent was realizing i couldn't make them perfectly safe. The best we can do is literally the best we can do and worrying about every single bad thing that could possibly happen would have just made me insane and them miserable. "
True but does that mean you just give up and take risks because they make your life more convenient? If you are worried about convenience, maybe a kid or two or three isn't the best choice... (I dont mean you specifically) You do exactly what you want to do with your kids because they are your kids. I just will not be the person who assumes a kid left alone in a car is ok and i will act on it. We are not really discussing people's choices to leave their kids alone, at least i am not. I am discussing what i would do as a stranger to the situation.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jul 1, 2014 9:22:05 GMT -5
Quote removed as post quoted is being removed. mmhmm, Administrator That is uncalled for. There is nothing wrong with Mutt's choices & she is an excellent mother. Just because you perceive a risk where none exists doesn't mean you need to start calling out others for not seeing the same imagined risk.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 1, 2014 9:35:50 GMT -5
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jul 1, 2014 9:49:01 GMT -5
Quote removed as quoted post has been removed. mmhmm, Administrator I actually don't think Mutt is in full blown attack mode, but I will say when you start to imply someone is a bad mother due to their choices, it kind of pisses them off & puts them into attack mode. You and I have been down this road & you quit the board over that incident. So let's just stop this now & stop saying Mutt is feeling guilty or implying that she has anything to feel guilty about.
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Jul 1, 2014 10:02:42 GMT -5
DH and I had a conversation about this on the way to work today since we carpooled. I asked if his mom ever left them in the car while she ran an errand, and he said it happened all the time. In New Mexico! My mom would leave us in the car while she ran in to the post office or in to the gas station to pay, and sometimes while she did her grocery shopping (only if it wasn't too hot or cold). Most of the time it was 15 minutes or less which I know for sure since we would time it. We were nerdy kids One thing our moms never did, though, was leave the keys in the car and the car running. Can't easily steal a car without keys, and one with 4-6 kids inside isn't exactly an appealing target anyway. So then I asked him if he would ever leave Aly in the car to run in to the gas station or to work, or asked if he already had. Turns out we've both left her in the car at the gas station on different occasions when we were on our own and she was asleep, but we both parked in the spot closest to the doors and locked up the car, we didn't leave the keys in and leave the car running. Since he is usually a lot more nervous about parenting in general I was surprised that he admitted he had left her before.
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Jul 1, 2014 10:03:24 GMT -5
It's a nice piece but I think it would have been a lot more balanced if she had talked to someone who made the same decision and had horrible consequences. Like the woman who left her 4 young boys in the car for 2 minutes in front of an apartment to drop off a bird. During that time, one picked up the cigarette lighter, lit a piece of paper and they couldn't stop the fire nor get out of the car. She came back to the car to find them all burning. None died, but the baby and one other ended up horribly disfigured. I heard this horrifying story on Oprah 10 years ago and it stuck with me.
A couple of years ago, somebody in my city did the same thing. The 2 year old was sleeping in her carseat in the minivan and it was after dark on a mild evening. She didn't want to disturb her sleeping toddler, so she left the car running while she ran into a friend's house for 5 minutes. Her car was gone along with the 2 year old when she came out. The police found the car and the toddler, but it was a grueling 16 hours for the parents. The carjackers didn't even know the 2 year old was in there, they just wanted to steal the car.
Common denominator: just a few minutes. I suspect that wants you do it once and "get away with it". I'd bet my life you do it a hundred more times until there are consequences. Just like drunk drivers.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jul 1, 2014 10:09:00 GMT -5
It's a nice piece but I think it would have been a lot more balanced if she had talked to someone who made the same decision and had horrible consequences. Like the woman who left her 4 young boys in the car for 2 minutes in front of an apartment to drop off a bird. During that time, one picked up the cigarette lighter, lit a piece of paper and they couldn't stop the fire nor get out of the car. She came back to the car to find them all burning. None died, but the baby and one other ended up horribly disfigured. I heard this horrifying story on Oprah 10 years ago and it stuck with me. A couple of years ago, somebody in my city did the same thing. The 2 year old was sleeping in her carseat in the minivan and it was after dark on a mild evening. She didn't want to disturb her sleeping toddler, so she left the car running while she ran into a friend's house for 5 minutes. Her car was gone along with the 2 year old when she came out. The police found the car and the toddler, but it was a grueling 16 hours for the parents. The carjackers didn't even know the 2 year old was in there, they just wanted to steal the car. Common denominator: just a few minutes. I suspect that wants you do it once and "get away with it". I'd bet my life you do it a hundred more times until there are consequences. Just like drunk drivers. The difference is though that those are complete anomolies. Those 2 things literally couldn't happen to me if I left my kids because there is no cigarette lighter & I never leave the car running. I lock the car & an alarm will go off if any of the doors are opened. So we can look at the other side, but you have to realize the other side is not likely at all. IMO, this is like saying we need to look at the other side of letting a 4 year old use scissors. Just because yours has done it 100 times without incident doesn't mean we shouldn't find the mother of the kid that poked his eye out to look at what can happen and the consequences of this decision.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jul 1, 2014 10:10:12 GMT -5
Maybe older cars didn't have this capability, but I'm able to lock my car while its running - I just take the electronic keyfob off. I have an extra one stashed at the house because I've locked my keys in my car so many times. (Sometimes the house key/cell phone, too... ugh!)
This actually happened to me accidentally several times with my first car. Nothing like having to call your mom to come into town to unlock your running car in a location you probably shouldn't have been in the first place.
Anyway, that would seem to eliminate (or at least greatly minimize) the danger of someone jacking your car with your kid inside. A locked car, even if running, probably wouldn't be a great target.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 1, 2014 10:16:36 GMT -5
What's funny is that I was thinking some mothers on here ARE the judgmental ones. I know I'm judging as I read these posts.
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yogiii
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Post by yogiii on Jul 1, 2014 10:21:01 GMT -5
What's funny is that I was thinking some mothers on here ARE the judgmental ones. I know I'm judging as I read these posts. I think everyone is judgmental, naturally. As you age and grow you learn to be less so because you can imagine yourself in other's shoes. Some more or less than others.
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Jul 1, 2014 10:30:47 GMT -5
It's a nice piece but I think it would have been a lot more balanced if she had talked to someone who made the same decision and had horrible consequences. Like the woman who left her 4 young boys in the car for 2 minutes in front of an apartment to drop off a bird. During that time, one picked up the cigarette lighter, lit a piece of paper and they couldn't stop the fire nor get out of the car. She came back to the car to find them all burning. None died, but the baby and one other ended up horribly disfigured. I heard this horrifying story on Oprah 10 years ago and it stuck with me. A couple of years ago, somebody in my city did the same thing. The 2 year old was sleeping in her carseat in the minivan and it was after dark on a mild evening. She didn't want to disturb her sleeping toddler, so she left the car running while she ran into a friend's house for 5 minutes. Her car was gone along with the 2 year old when she came out. The police found the car and the toddler, but it was a grueling 16 hours for the parents. The carjackers didn't even know the 2 year old was in there, they just wanted to steal the car. Common denominator: just a few minutes. I suspect that wants you do it once and "get away with it". I'd bet my life you do it a hundred more times until there are consequences. Just like drunk drivers. The difference is though that those are complete anomolies. Those 2 things literally couldn't happen to me if I left my kids because there is no cigarette lighter & I never leave the car running. I lock the car & an alarm will go off if any of the doors are opened. So we can look at the other side, but you have to realize the other side is not likely at all. IMO, this is like saying we need to look at the other side of letting a 4 year old use scissors. Just because yours has done it 100 times without incident doesn't mean we shouldn't find the mother of the kid that poked his eye out to look at what can happen and the consequences of this decision. Yes, of course, because I listed specific examples you've honed onto "that couldn't happen in my car" just like the drunk driver got away with it for years before something did happen. Those people claim they can drive safe while drunk because nothing has ever happened. The reason this is a law is because the possibilities are endless of what could happen and children have died. The 2 women never thought it could happen either. Like I said, it would have been nice to include an interview from someone who experienced the worse day of her life and would go back and change that decision no matter how inconvenient.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jul 1, 2014 10:32:35 GMT -5
Quote removed as quoted post has been removed. mmhmm, Administrator When you are accusing her of "feeling guilty" and telling her that she must have something to feel guilty about, it is pretty clear what you mean. You are making this personal & questioning her judgement as a mother. It may not be a direct attack, which is why I haven't stepped in as an admin. But, I am asking you to be respectful and stop it before this goes any further.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jul 1, 2014 10:35:27 GMT -5
The difference is though that those are complete anomolies. Those 2 things literally couldn't happen to me if I left my kids because there is no cigarette lighter & I never leave the car running. I lock the car & an alarm will go off if any of the doors are opened. So we can look at the other side, but you have to realize the other side is not likely at all. IMO, this is like saying we need to look at the other side of letting a 4 year old use scissors. Just because yours has done it 100 times without incident doesn't mean we shouldn't find the mother of the kid that poked his eye out to look at what can happen and the consequences of this decision. Yes, of course, because I listed specific examples you've honed onto "that couldn't happen in my car" just like the drunk driver got away with it for years before something did happen. Those people claim they can drive safe while drunk because nothing has ever happened. The reason this is a law is because the possibilities are endless of what could happen and children have died. The 2 women never thought it could happen either. Like I said, it would have been nice to include an interview from someone who experienced the worse day of her life and would go back and change that decision no matter how inconvenient. But this isn't actually a law in most states. And even many of the states that do have a law have something like "no more than 15 minutes alone" or vague wording about the kids being in an unsafe situation. I don't really see the comparison to drunk driving that kills thousands of people per year, when this kills 8/yr (IIRC)
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jul 1, 2014 10:39:58 GMT -5
Quote removed as quoted post has been removed. mmhmm, Administrator When you are accusing her of "feeling guilty" and telling her that she must have something to feel guilty about, it is pretty clear what you mean. You are making this personal & questioning her judgement as a mother. It may not be a direct attack, which is why I haven't stepped in as an admin. But, I am asking you to be respectful and stop it before this goes any further. Does this also apply to people telling other they must have reading comprehension issues and they need to get down off their high horses? Because that's pretty personal, too. I did it yesterday and I'm feeling badly. I'm going to delete it now.
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