justme
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Post by justme on Jun 20, 2014 13:23:03 GMT -5
They've said several times that they do it to pick up things like milk, eggs, etc quickly.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 20, 2014 13:27:51 GMT -5
The question was how *I* would handle grabbing those items if I had to bring the kid(s) in with me. If I knew I had to bring the kid(s) in with me, I wouldn't go to the gas station. I'd go to the grocery store where there were carts.
Again, if you're close enough to the car that you can see me standing next to it looking concerned and getting my cell phone out like I'm about to place a call, drop what you're doing and come out to the car to tell me that you were watching them the whole time. Problem solved.
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Jun 20, 2014 13:28:59 GMT -5
I, personally, resent the hell out of having to make parenting decisions based on what the busybodies/helicopter parents of the world might do.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jun 20, 2014 13:41:17 GMT -5
The question was how *I* would handle grabbing those items if I had to bring the kid(s) in with me. If I knew I had to bring the kid(s) in with me, I wouldn't go to the gas station. I'd go to the grocery store where there were carts. Again, if you're close enough to the car that you can see me standing next to it looking concerned and getting my cell phone out like I'm about to place a call, drop what you're doing and come out to the car to tell me that you were watching them the whole time. Problem solved. I would probably be in and out and not even notice you. I tend to have a one track mind when I get like that and it would be in, grab what I need, pay, out to the car, get in, look at the kids, buckle up and on the road. Someone standing nearby talking on the phone wouldn't really be on my radar. There are absolutely situations where the police should be called, but I just think blindly applying the rule to everything is ridiculous. Kids alone in the car, call cops right now. Nevermind that the dad was smoking on the other side of the car or dad is walking across the parking lot from throwing something away. So what happens when you call - "There are kids alone in the car at 123 Main street ... oh wait nevermind, there is the dad. Sorry to waste your time"?
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 20, 2014 13:44:37 GMT -5
I, personally, resent the hell out of having to make parenting decisions based on what the busybodies/helicopter parents of the world might do.
As much as I empathize with that sentiment (and I do), there are a bunch of parenting decisions which will be judged and possibly acted upon by others if you make them in public. You can disagree with it and resent it all you want, but it's just reality.
I tend to err on the side of MYOB, believe it or not, but if I saw a parent doing something I believed was putting a child in danger, I'd speak up or do something or both. I wouldn't really care if they "resented" me for doing so.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jun 20, 2014 13:46:14 GMT -5
So do you speak up when you see a child improperly restrained in a car seat? Because that is a hell of a lot more dangerous than leaving a child in a car unattended.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 20, 2014 13:48:06 GMT -5
There are absolutely situations where the police should be called, but I just think blindly applying the rule to everything is ridiculous.
"I would automatically call the cops if I saw a baby unattended in a car" = / = blindly applying the rule to everything.
I've called the cops on someone exactly once in my life - when the car in front of me was swerving all over the place in a really obviously dangerous way and I managed to get the license plate right before I saw the car get on the freeway. If that gives you an idea of when I would and have chosen to intervene.
Maybe that driver was texting, maybe he was sleep deprived, maybe he was drunk (that's how it looked to me) but REGARDLESS, that driver had no business on the freeway because he was obviously impaired. I felt it was my duty to alert the police so he didn't kill someone.
So no, I don't "blindly apply the rule" to everything. At my ripe old age of 28, I've chosen to call the police as a bystander exactly one time.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jun 20, 2014 13:48:26 GMT -5
I, personally, resent the hell out of having to make parenting decisions based on what the busybodies/helicopter parents of the world might do. how about a passing squad car? I feel confident that my actions would pass the muster of a police officer before a helicopter parent.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 20, 2014 13:51:45 GMT -5
So what happens when you call - "There are kids alone in the car at 123 Main street ... oh wait nevermind, there is the dad. Sorry to waste your time"?
Pretty much. I don't see the harm in that and I sincerely doubt the police would either. The concern was legitimate, but it has now been addressed. I would tell them that the parent had returned and the kids looked fine and we could all move on with our day. It's not like the cops would be pissed at me for calling about what appeared to be an unattended baby in a car. That's a legitimate reason to call the police even if it turns out the baby isn't in danger.
Also, I'm not a coward. If I called the police on someone and I was in a position to tell them I did so (like if they came out as I was calling), I would tell them I did it and why.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 20, 2014 13:53:43 GMT -5
So do you speak up when you see a child improperly restrained in a car seat? Because that is a hell of a lot more dangerous than leaving a child in a car unattended. Sure, if I was in a position to see that. But how would I ever be in a position to observe that unless I was in the car with the kid? We can't report on stuff we don't see. But if we do see something we legitimately believe is putting a child in danger and we don't report it or otherwise take action, that seems kind of monstrous to me.
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Jun 20, 2014 13:55:38 GMT -5
I, personally, resent the hell out of having to make parenting decisions based on what the busybodies/helicopter parents of the world might do. how about a passing squad car? I would hope the passing squad car would have their eyes on the road, not craning to see if there are kids alone in every car parked along the side.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jun 20, 2014 13:56:23 GMT -5
So do you speak up when you see a child improperly restrained in a car seat? Because that is a hell of a lot more dangerous than leaving a child in a car unattended. I was going to ask this too. Where is the line when someone is contemplating calling the police when a child is in a situation which has a potential to become dangerous? In my state, there is no specific law saying "don't leave your kids in the car" - if a child is left alone in a car on a hot day, the parent is charged with neglect of a dependent (D felony) (or involuntary/voluntary manslaughter if the child dies). If a child is left alone in a car on a mild day, I highly doubt criminal charges would be filed. However, my state does have laws relating to proper safety restraints. Therefore, legally, someone would have MORE justification to call the cops if they see a child improperly restrained (since that is against the law) than they would if they see a child alone in a car on a mild day (not necessarily against the law).
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jun 20, 2014 13:58:54 GMT -5
So do you speak up when you see a child improperly restrained in a car seat? Because that is a hell of a lot more dangerous than leaving a child in a car unattended. Sure, if I was in a position to see that. But how would I ever be in a position to observe that unless I was in the car with the kid? We can't report on stuff we don't see. But if we do see something we legitimately believe is putting a child in danger and we don't report it or otherwise take action, that seems kind of monstrous to me. And that is where we differ. Of course I'm going to say something if a child is legitimately in danger, but your definition and mine of legitimately in danger are obviously different.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 20, 2014 14:02:12 GMT -5
I don't think it's a valid comparison because again, we can't report on things we can't see. It's against the law to beat the shit out of your kid but unless a parent is doing it in broad daylight, a random bystander is unlikely to know it's happening. It's not reasonable to expect people to report things they're in no position to see.
Similarly, it's not reasonable to expect people to report on things like children not restrained properly unless they happen to see it somehow. That's just not something most people would be in a position to notice- unlike a baby alone in a car.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jun 20, 2014 14:02:35 GMT -5
Unless they have evidence the dad intentionally left his kid there to fry, 1st degree murder is a huge reach. IMO there's no way they can convict on that unless there is pretty solid proof the dad went to work that day intending to kill his kid.
I do wonder why they chose to charge it that way... I'd guess they know they will lose, but want to send a message to other parents - leave your kid in the car and it's (possibly) life in prison. No clue if that's actually true, though.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 20, 2014 14:05:44 GMT -5
Muttley, it sounds like you wouldn't report a baby alone in a car unless it was outside certain kinds of business establishments (office, bar, box store) or the weather was hot or the baby seemed distressed. Those are great reasons to call, but I still don't think it's UNreasonable to call if you see ANY baby unattended in a parked car ANYWHERE. So yes, we'll have to agree to disagree on this point. I'd rather err on the side of caution when it comes to a baby's life.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jun 20, 2014 14:07:45 GMT -5
California - illegal if car is running/keys in ignition or conditions are a risk
Florida - under 15 minutes is ok, illegal if car is running
Connecticut - only if the time left causes a substantial risk
Hawaii - 5 minutes
Texas - 5 minutes
All have varying degrees on what ages a child is.
Oh and from what I read on the arrest warrant he was not charged with 1st degree murder - rather 1st degree child neglect and felony murder (which could be 3rd or 2nd or 1st).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2014 14:14:01 GMT -5
MN doesn't even have any legislation. So, bigger risk of getting arrested peeing beside the road.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2014 17:04:49 GMT -5
Ok unlike the person in the OP i am not going to call to get someone in trouble. My only motivation would be to make sure the kid is safe. So if i am at a gas station and i see something, i am more likely to run into the gas station and find the parents. I am not talking about blindly calling yhe cops. If you are a dad smoking around the car, you would be noticed. Nobody is talking about looking for opportunities to get someone in trouble. We are ALL talking about things we would do out of concern for a child!! If you see that as not MYOFB then whatever'!!! I would rather be be seen as a busy body than have the death of a love bug in my conscious!!!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2014 17:24:42 GMT -5
IMHO, There should be no picking of battles. A parent should win every one of them. That's the way we were raised. Teenage years and college were not kind to us as we had the freedom to do what we wanted but none of the decision making skills. Let's just say that 3 of the 4 now have kids and none of us are raising them this way. We may be strict with DD but we will admit when we were wrong or reconsider at times. A parent having the final word should have nothing to do with whether or not a child learns good decision making skills.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Jun 20, 2014 21:11:02 GMT -5
Caught up again and I can't get over the "take your kids along to the GAS STATION bathroom if you have to go" comment! There is no way in H*ll I would ever taker 3 kids with me in a bathroom and most certainly not a GAS STATION bathroom. Those I will only enter if I am in imminent danger of an explosion that will take out my kidneys and anything below!
I would have to bathe the kids in pure Lysol afterwards to get them clean again and who can tell me how to make a 6 months old gargle with said Lysol? And as several others pointed out going somewhere in the bushes could mean that you have to get out of sight of your car AND there might be snakes or rats under those bushes which would lead to an instant heart attack leaving those babies orphans!
Get real people. Life happens, milk runs out when the weather is hot, bathroom breaks can't always be planned. And you can helcopter your own kids. Unless a child is in distress (yes it IS good to find help then) try to use some logic/consideration in your actions and judgements.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jun 20, 2014 21:38:12 GMT -5
I know I've said it before, but I'll say it again. I Joss.
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gacpa
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Post by gacpa on Jun 21, 2014 11:10:07 GMT -5
Yes, we love you Joss!
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sunshinegal1981
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Post by sunshinegal1981 on Jun 21, 2014 12:06:54 GMT -5
Looks like there is more to the recent story of the dad leaving the kid in the car, but no one can officially comment as the case is still under investigation. www.cnn.com/2014/06/21/us/toddler-car-death-probe/index.html?hpt=hp_t2 I wonder if the kid died before the dad ever left for work? Maybe dad beat him to death at home, panicked, and faked the "leaving child in car" charade because he felt he would get more sympathy playing the "stressed out loving parent who made a big mistake" role? That's where my mind is going now, anyway.
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gacpa
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Post by gacpa on Jun 21, 2014 13:25:08 GMT -5
Well, certainly something is going on that the general public is not aware of. Maybe they will reveal their findings soon. Otherwise, I think the authorities have grossly overstepped their boundaries with this tragedy.
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tloonya
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Post by tloonya on Jun 21, 2014 13:31:37 GMT -5
Considering kids are still being left in cars and dying - this story had not thought anyone anything. And parents are still doing it for one reason - to save time.
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yogiii
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Post by yogiii on Jun 22, 2014 9:25:42 GMT -5
I'm only on page 6 so we've probably moved on from this point, however, I've never left my kids in the car alone ... yet. I also have not walked in the shoes of some of these posters. I'm not a single mom, my DH doesn't have medical issues, I've never stopped at a gas station to get milk because I have lots of grocery stores close to me. Like midjd, I don't want to say I never will because perhaps there will be a circumstance one day where I say, eh, I'll be right back and do just that. So far it hasn't happened yet and I'm not planning on it because well I'm just a nervous person but I'm not discounting it either.
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gacpa
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Post by gacpa on Jun 23, 2014 14:09:02 GMT -5
Another instance of parent leaving child in car-car was stolen and baby left on side of the road. www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/baby-girl-found-safe-after-she-went-missing-stolen-car-n138196Please do not flame me, just sharing an article pertinent to this discussion and thought I would share. In the interest of full disclosure, I did accidentally lock my son in the car when I dropped him off at daycare one day. In a hurry to get to work. His father came right away with a set of keys and got him out. If that were not possible, I would have broken the glass to get him out. This was years ago, in hot Albany, GA.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2014 14:13:55 GMT -5
Another instance of parent leaving child in car-car was stolen and baby left on side of the road. www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/baby-girl-found-safe-after-she-went-missing-stolen-car-n138196Please do not flame me, just sharing an article pertinent to this discussion and thought I would share. In the interest of full disclosure, I did accidentally lock my son in the car when I dropped him off at daycare one day. In a hurry to get to work. His father came right away with a set of keys and got him out. If that were not possible, I would have broken the glass to get him out. This was years ago, in hot Albany, GA. WTH is up with this part of the story? But the mother didn't have her cellphone and had to find a way home before she could report her daughter missing at about 3:30 a.m., Smith said.
Someone steals her car and baby from a gas station and she has to wait until she gets home to call somebody? Why on earth wouldn't you call from the gas station?
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gacpa
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Post by gacpa on Jun 23, 2014 14:16:27 GMT -5
Excellent questions, MPL. Things that make you go, "Hmmm?"
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