Phoenix84
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 17, 2011 21:42:35 GMT -5
Posts: 10,056
|
Post by Phoenix84 on Jun 16, 2014 18:15:21 GMT -5
I'm an old-fashioned type of woman and I appreciate an old-fashioned man. I'm not sure "old fashioned" is even the correct term to use. I guess what I mean is before the point where women started getting pissed off at every little thing - like having a door held open for them. While I appreciate chivalry, I don't expect it.
It's like any other compatibility issue, Phoenix. If you are comfortable holding a door open for a woman, do so. If the woman you hold the door open gets offended by it, she's probably not the woman for you anyway. If you don't like holding doors for a lady, and the lady you are with gets upset, she's probably not the woman for you. Again, don't change yourself for someone. Find someone of a like mind. For instance, when I start looking again, I'll look for someone "old-fashioned". If I was more of a modern woman, I'd probably look for a more modern man. Conduct yourself in a manner you are comfortable with (as long as it's legal!). I guess on the spectrum, I fall somewhere in between.
Anyway, I don't mind people having expectations of how they should be treated. What really bothers me is when a potential date plays mind games with you. Like, for example, Justme saying she doesn't want to order yet and kicks it over to the guy and then gets offended when he orders because "he should have known to let me order first." Or when you reach to pay for the check, the lady stops you and asks you to split it, but gets offended if you take her up on it. Those are the kind of things that really bug me, when they communicate one thing to you, but really expect another.
Maybe it's because I'm pretty literal, but if someone says something I usually take what say as what they mean. Anything to the contrary really pisses me off.
|
|
Green Eyed Lady
Senior Associate
Look inna eye! Always look inna eye!
Joined: Jan 23, 2012 11:23:55 GMT -5
Posts: 19,629
|
Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jun 16, 2014 18:19:49 GMT -5
I don't think it's unreasonable or too literal to take someone at their word. If I say I'm not upset, I mean I'm not upset. If I am upset...well...that's pretty clear without me having to say so! Some women play games, Phoenix. So do some men. But I don't think it's a general rule for either sex. I understand what you are saying. It would be nice if everyone said what they meant....even if it's something I don't always want to hear.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 9, 2024 20:21:20 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Chivalry
Jun 16, 2014 18:20:48 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2014 18:20:48 GMT -5
"Same thing with elevators. If a guy is closest to the door, he should exit first! Don't make a fuss about letting the lady in the back out. If you are together, sure let the woman go first, that is polite."
My nightmare every morning! By all means, if you are a male standing by the door, get out! Sometimes I could be in an elevator with 5 guys and they all stand aside waiting for me to get out (as they do with all women). I think it is annoying! Holding the door for someone is common courtesy if they get to the door first. If it is a date, i do sort of like him opening my car door first. I would love to have someone pump my gas for me but i wouldn 't expect it.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 9, 2024 20:21:20 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2014 19:01:31 GMT -5
I would probably be offended if someone ordered for me. How does my date know what I'm in the mood to eat? Lol. Your date doesn't choose your food for you. You pick out what you want to eat from a menu without prices (his version has them) and tell him. He then places your (and his) order with the waiter.
I grew up dating more or less like this. My menu usually had prices, though. We didn't dine at really fine restaurants.
I like it when young men open the door for me, especially at school. I do make a point, though, to specifically thank them and usually add how gentlemanly they are. For older men more my age, I just specifically thank them.
I pump my own gas, hold the door open for other people, etc. Feeling appreciative is not the same thing as feeling entitled.
DH and I are separate potters, but he pays when we go out to eat.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 9, 2024 20:21:20 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2014 19:21:32 GMT -5
It's pretty common here for people to hold the door open if there's someone coming in right behind them. Gender or age doesn't matter. Even thugs will hold the door for or let a female enter a building first. Good manners are kind of a big deal here, if you don't have good manners your family didn't give you any "home-training". We say "hi" or "hello" or at least nod our heads to acknowledge almost everyone we make eye contact with. It's so ingrained that it's hard to not do it when I travel.
I like it when men behave like "gentlemen" in social settings. Walk me to my car, open the car door for me when we're going somewhere (only when entering the car though), things like that. And yes, if a man is in my car and I stop for gas, I kinda expect him to pump the gas for me, whether it's my brother, my boyfriend or just a friend. It's what I'm use to men doing.
I have a friend that I go out to eat with fairly often and sometimes he orders my food. It doesn't bother me. Part of our routine is to ask each other "what are you getting" whle we look over the menu, so he's never ordered my food without knowing what I want and we've eaten together enough to know the details of how each of us likes our food.
Several years ago I went out to eat with a casual friend and I teased him about whether he was going to order my food. He'd never heard of that, was intrigued by the idea and wanted to know how to pull it off. The next time he went on a first date, he ordered for his date. He told me about 1000 times after that how happy he was that I'd given him the idea. Apparently the ladies he dated were impressed by it lol.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 9, 2024 20:21:20 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2014 19:22:12 GMT -5
Well, I generally have one go to meal at any restaurant because its so hard to find stuff I can eat. But I'm guessing my husband would be hard pressed to order for me. He just doesn't attend to details like that... But I figure I have it pretty good in other ways
|
|
Lizard Queen
Senior Associate
103/2024
Joined: Jan 17, 2011 22:19:13 GMT -5
Posts: 14,659
|
Post by Lizard Queen on Jun 16, 2014 19:48:53 GMT -5
You know, thinking about my dating days, it's not really about opening doors, pumping gas or paying for dinner. It seems like when you break it down, it's all about showing someone else that they're important to you and that you care about their feelings. That can take many different forms, as everyone has their own preferences. But when you don't know someone very well, some basic chivalry can help.
|
|
sarcasticgirl
Junior Associate
Joined: Jan 4, 2011 14:39:51 GMT -5
Posts: 5,155
Location: Chicago
|
Post by sarcasticgirl on Jun 16, 2014 20:10:33 GMT -5
I grew up in Texas where men always opened doors for ladies.... Even in HS. A man would generally offer their seat to a lady etc. Then I moved to Chicago... I've had men nearly knock me over in order to get to a seat on the train before I do. I have lived here 8 years and I can count on one hand the amount of times I have seen a man give up their seat for a pregnant woman. I tend to be the only person in my train car to offer. It is really annoying to have to call across the train to offer my seat because none of the 20 people close to the preggo woman will offer. When I go visit houston, I always meet up with one of my best friends. To this day he always opens the car door for me. My husband has never done that.
It took me a while to adjust... But I have realized people here just weren't raised the same way I was. That's fine. A man doesn't have to open the door and let me walk in first, but if I am walking in a door behind the man (or woman for that matter) I believe it is polite and proper for them to hold the door open for me after they have walked in. Unfortunately, people just drop doors in my face all the time. I hold doors open for people all the time, without even a thought. To me that isn't even chivalry... It is just polite manners.
Sent from my Nexus 10
|
|
violagirl
Familiar Member
Joined: Aug 17, 2011 11:04:54 GMT -5
Posts: 703
|
Post by violagirl on Jun 16, 2014 21:20:25 GMT -5
Door opening is just general polite behaviour. So whoever gets there first holds the door. Often men will say no, after you and take the door so I can go in first. I've always wondered about the whole ladies first thing - like if there was a danger in the room - she would be stepping into it first - that's not cool.
Acknowledging people you pass on the street with a smile or a nod is a small town thing. We do that here. Also if you live on a private road, and a neighbour drives by you have to give a wave. Obviously if you live on a busy road you might not do this. On the other hand, one place we lived there was this old guy that would always be out walking on the busy road every Sunday morning. I called him The Waving Man. He'd wave in acknowledgement at everyone. At first my husband (the city boy) refused to wave at him, but I got to look foward to his waving and pretty soon - we were waving back. Not a big wave, just a palm up and a nod and smile. It is a way to connect.
When we are in a vehicle together, generally my husband drives. I guess that is chivalrous. On long trips, I'll drive the highway miles but he takes over when we get in the city as I am more nervous to drive in unfamiliar cities. I take over navigation duties. He usually pumps the gas.
I was watching Downton Abbey the other night and I thought the whole standing when a woman leaves or enters is kind of a nice touch. I dont' see that here.
|
|
tallguy
Senior Associate
Joined: Apr 2, 2011 19:21:59 GMT -5
Posts: 14,566
|
Post by tallguy on Jun 16, 2014 22:18:50 GMT -5
I will always open a door for someone of either gender, although if it is a man behind me I will enter and then hold it from the inside. Offering a seat on a bus is also a given. But the elevator thing.... If you are closest to the door, go first. The bigger deal is to let riders off before you get on.
As far as dating, the behavior is upgraded considerably. I will always at least attempt to open the car door for my date. And if we are on a first date and she does her own, I have been known to (smilingly) mention, "There are so few opportunities to be a gentleman nowadays, I would hate to be deprived of one." But either way, I am there to close it for her. And when we exit, I do go around to close the door afterward as well.
I will always walk on the outside going down the street. I think somebody mentioned that it was to protect the woman from the splashing from the roads. That is a later development. My understanding is that it was originally to protect her from the upper-floor chamber pots being emptied into the gutters below. I recall one date being very surprised to learn that there was an actual reason for it.
Offering a coat is almost automatic if it is cold or becomes rainy, and I have gone to get the car if it is a ways away.
And I do sometimes order for her if I think she is okay with it. And yes, it is AFTER she has decided and told me what she would like. "The lady will have...."
I do stand when she leaves or arrives at the table, although I don't really do the "hold the chair for her" thing. I will pull it out when we are being seated, but pushing it back in seems odd. And yes, I've done the "hold the purse" thing before too.
And at the end of the night, walk her to her door and see her in safely. Some here may argue that you should say your goodbyes at the car so it doesn't seem like you are inviting yourself inside, but that's wrong. And, if you have been showing good manners all evening long, it will be understood as a continuation of that.
|
|
Green Eyed Lady
Senior Associate
Look inna eye! Always look inna eye!
Joined: Jan 23, 2012 11:23:55 GMT -5
Posts: 19,629
|
Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jun 16, 2014 22:29:52 GMT -5
What a nice post, tallguy. You appear to be comfortable with how you conduct yourself and that, in and of itself, is attractive - regardless of whether it is considered "chivalry" or not. Good for you.
|
|
tallguy
Senior Associate
Joined: Apr 2, 2011 19:21:59 GMT -5
Posts: 14,566
|
Post by tallguy on Jun 16, 2014 22:32:36 GMT -5
Exactly, although I may have had a little more to say if that had ever happened to me.
"Of course you don't. It is not a GENDER thing. It is a COURTESY thing. But, since you are apparently so proud of having a vagina, why don't you pull your head OUT of it and show that you are worthy of someone's courtesy?"
I really am a lot nicer when I don't have to deal with idiots. Really!
|
|
buystoys
Junior Associate
Joined: Mar 30, 2012 4:58:12 GMT -5
Posts: 5,650
|
Post by buystoys on Jun 16, 2014 22:35:57 GMT -5
DH almost always places my order at a restaurant, after asking me what I would like. He always pumps the gas for me after getting my credit card from my wallet. He holds the door for me when we enter or exit a building, but doesn't open my car door for me. (I'm too impatient to wait for him to walk around the car.) He holds the door for people coming after us into or out of a building. He says, "Thank you," and "Please" when appropriate. He makes certain the outside lights are on if someone leaves our house after it is dark.
|
|
steff
Senior Associate
I'll sleep when I'm dead
Joined: Dec 30, 2010 17:34:24 GMT -5
Posts: 10,780
|
Post by steff on Jun 16, 2014 22:41:06 GMT -5
If it's just me going into a store/building, I'll get the door and/or thank anyone who holds the door for me. When it's my mom & my gramma with me, I always make sure to get the doors so mom can help gramma get in. With gramma, I also make sure to open and/or close car doors for her. Just me, I'm okay with no one opening my door even if hubby or kiddo is with me.
Now when I'm out with kiddo and/or hubby, I'm standing there until one of them opens the door. It's how I taught kiddo at a young age that he should be a gentleman and open the doors. He will also catch the door for someone coming in or out at the same time we are. I also noticed that he does the car door open/close for his girlfriend. He also never lets her walk out to her car alone. at the house or at work, during the day or night. He always walks her out. I consider that a very good trait in a man.
I also will admit that since getting married 21 years ago, I've never put gas in a car. Hubby will take my car & fill it up when needed. There are times now that kiddo has taken it over & noticed I need gas & will stop & fill it up.
hubby has also taught kiddo that when taking a woman out to eat, the man should sit where he can see the door/entryway in case there is any kind of trouble. I don't know if that's chivalry or just good thinking.
|
|
tallguy
Senior Associate
Joined: Apr 2, 2011 19:21:59 GMT -5
Posts: 14,566
|
Post by tallguy on Jun 16, 2014 22:48:23 GMT -5
What a nice post, tallguy. You appear to be comfortable with how you conduct yourself and that, in and of itself, is attractive - regardless of whether it is considered "chivalry" or not. Good for you.
Thank you, GEL. I'm not sure I would even know how to not be mannerly or chivalrous. Not only was I taught better than that, but I would be embarrassed to be found ignorant of such things. And the women I find attractive would likely have an expectation of such behavior.
To put it bluntly, I try not to date trashy, classless or ignorant women.
Okay, maybe throwing that last part in wasn't particularly gentlemanly....
|
|
Green Eyed Lady
Senior Associate
Look inna eye! Always look inna eye!
Joined: Jan 23, 2012 11:23:55 GMT -5
Posts: 19,629
|
Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jun 16, 2014 23:06:49 GMT -5
You are quite welcome. It appears, from the responses in this thread, that chivalry is NOT dead and I'm very grateful for that. Manners never go out of style - for men or women.
|
|
drivingaround
Established Member
Joined: Feb 26, 2011 21:38:18 GMT -5
Posts: 295
|
Post by drivingaround on Jun 16, 2014 23:29:01 GMT -5
I will always open a door for someone of either gender, although if it is a man behind me I will enter and then hold it from the inside. I've never understood holding the door from the inside. I do it but find it to be a weird contortion of the body, like you have to awkwardly hold your arm out and some doors are heavy. Then depending on the sex walking through the door you need to angle your arm so you don't brush them. I'm of average manners. I hold doors open, hold elevator doors, don't fart in elevators, if it is dark out will walk my co-worker to her car and make sure it starts, will hold the car door open for DW when getting in. I also park on the street so she has the one garage space. Although we live in an uber safe suburb I don't like the idea of her getting home late and walking up the street to the front door. DW just said she doesn't like walking in doors first 'cause men tend to check out the booty which is uncomfortable. I've never ordered for someone and only pumped gas for DW, mom or gram. I've also not gotten up when a lady left the restaurant table. I find that weird too, why acknowledge she had to go to the bathroom? I will stop eating while she's away from the table as I don't like her feeling alone when she eats.
|
|
tallguy
Senior Associate
Joined: Apr 2, 2011 19:21:59 GMT -5
Posts: 14,566
|
Post by tallguy on Jun 16, 2014 23:34:28 GMT -5
Big tall guy. Long arms. Not that awkward. But then, I only have to hold it until the guy grabs it or braces it open with his arm on his way in.
|
|
Green Eyed Lady
Senior Associate
Look inna eye! Always look inna eye!
Joined: Jan 23, 2012 11:23:55 GMT -5
Posts: 19,629
|
Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jun 16, 2014 23:44:11 GMT -5
Something that DOES annoy me? Holding the door open for someone and have them just sashay on through without so much as a nod. My mother would have thunked me upside the head had I not acknowledged a nice gesture with a "thank you".
|
|
mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
|
Post by mmhmm on Jun 17, 2014 0:24:07 GMT -5
After all those years with DH, I'm not sure I'd know how to act with someone who had no clue about social etiquette. I'd probably just turn around and go back in the house if I found myself standing outside the car door while the oaf was climbing behind the wheel!
|
|
cronewitch
Junior Associate
I identify as a post-menopausal childless cat lady and I vote.
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:44:20 GMT -5
Posts: 5,979
|
Post by cronewitch on Jun 17, 2014 1:26:55 GMT -5
Simple consideration for any limitations is plenty for me. Since I am getting old people are treating me like I am old. My nephew and I went to a baseball game and we had lots of stairs to climb, I told him I am slow with stairs and like the handrail. He made sure I knew I could go slow but I went fast enough. Coming down it was dark and my vision isn't so good, I was holding on and slipped on one step and he reached for me. At the bottom he told me he stayed behind me to block traffic.
When working I wouldn't want men to treat me better than they treat men just because I was female. My boss did insist on not having me do heavy work when it came up like moving boxes. Once my battery died at work and he insisted I take home a company van. My ISO got me a new battery and when I got to work the next day the boss had an electrican put it in for me. I sometimes appreciate being treated like a poor helpless female but not if it means being paid less because I am helpless, it was the end of the career so being treated nice was great.
Years ago people offered me a seat on the bus because I was older and female but I was capable of standing so turned it down and offered mine to a one armed man because he would have trouble holding on and might fall.
We should all treat each other with consideration and be polite to those who offer even if we don't think we are old or think we don't need help.
I went to Costco and bought huge heavy shelving units, had three on the cart out the door when two young employees asked if I needed help with them. I told them I am strong I can do it. They asked if I wanted to go get my car, I told them my boyfriend went to get his truck and what it was. When he pulled up they loaded the shelving even after I had told them I didn't need help. Don't they think a fat old women can load thousands of pounds of metal? Did they think I lied about not wanting help?
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 9, 2024 20:21:20 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2014 5:42:26 GMT -5
If it's just me going into a store/building, I'll get the door and/or thank anyone who holds the door for me. When it's my mom & my gramma with me, I always make sure to get the doors so mom can help gramma get in. With gramma, I also make sure to open and/or close car doors for her. Just me, I'm okay with no one opening my door even if hubby or kiddo is with me. Now when I'm out with kiddo and/or hubby, I'm standing there until one of them opens the door. It's how I taught kiddo at a young age that he should be a gentleman and open the doors. He will also catch the door for someone coming in or out at the same time we are. I also noticed that he does the car door open/close for his girlfriend. He also never lets her walk out to her car alone. at the house or at work, during the day or night. He always walks her out. I consider that a very good trait in a man. I also will admit that since getting married 21 years ago, I've never put gas in a car. Hubby will take my car & fill it up when needed. There are times now that kiddo has taken it over & noticed I need gas & will stop & fill it up. hubby has also taught kiddo that when taking a woman out to eat, the man should sit where he can see the door/entryway in case there is any kind of trouble. I don't know if that's chivalry or just good thinking. you seriously just stand there and wait for your DH or kid to open the door for you instead of just doing it yourself? If I was out and saw that I would wonder if your arms were broken.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 9, 2024 20:21:20 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2014 7:56:44 GMT -5
I work in a secure building and they're starting to crack down on people holding the door for others and letting them in. Everyone is supposed to badge in individually. It is SO hard to do and most of the time I just ignore the rule. If someone is walking behind me, I hold the door for them. Letting it slam behind me and continuing on just feels so incredibly wrong. I can't do it.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 9, 2024 20:21:20 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2014 8:00:24 GMT -5
Something that DOES annoy me? Holding the door open for someone and have them just sashay on through without so much as a nod. My mother would have thunked me upside the head had I not acknowledged a nice gesture with a "thank you". I did that to a woman at work last summer. I had a thousand things on my mind, and had a last minute needed to run to the other building request after my day was already over and daycare was closing soon. I was booking out and she held the door and I didn't say anything and holy hell, she lost it. She actually yelled after me, "Wow, what a fucking bitch, see if I ever hold the door open for you again". Ok, so I was rude, but that was worse. I turned and said, "My God, whatever will I do?"
|
|
nutty
Well-Known Member
Joined: Mar 31, 2014 5:37:19 GMT -5
Posts: 1,166
|
Chivalry
Jun 17, 2014 8:09:17 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by nutty on Jun 17, 2014 8:09:17 GMT -5
I like a man to open a car door for me.
|
|
lexxy703
Senior Associate
Joined: Aug 26, 2011 13:52:17 GMT -5
Posts: 13,771
|
Post by lexxy703 on Jun 17, 2014 9:42:34 GMT -5
I would probably be offended if someone ordered for me. How does my date know what I'm in the mood to eat? Lol. Your date doesn't choose your food for you. You pick out what you want to eat from a menu without prices (his version has them) and tell him. He then places your (and his) order with the waiter.
I grew up dating more or less like this. My menu usually had prices, though. We didn't dine at really fine restaurants.
I like it when young men open the door for me, especially at school. I do make a point, though, to specifically thank them and usually add how gentlemanly they are. For older men more my age, I just specifically thank them.
I pump my own gas, hold the door open for other people, etc. Feeling appreciative is not the same thing as feeling entitled.
DH and I are separate potters, but he pays when we go out to eat.
LOL, ok now I understand better. Then, in fact, I have had dates place my order for me. But we always both received the same menus that included prices.
|
|
alabamagal
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 23, 2010 11:30:29 GMT -5
Posts: 8,147
|
Post by alabamagal on Jun 17, 2014 12:17:55 GMT -5
Of course the 2 times ever I have had a flat tire, men have changed it for me. One time I was 8 months pregnant, the other was a guy who worked for me (it was around yearly review time!).
When DD called and said she had a flat tire on her college campus, I told her she could call the towing service (could take an hour or 2) or find someone to help her. I told her to open her trunk and get out her owners manual for instructions. Didn't take long for a guy to stop and offer assistance.
When our DA was running for office, he was in a shopping center parking lot greeting people. He was in a suit and tie in the middle of summer in Georgia. On my way out of the parking lot, I saw him changing an older ladies flat tire. He got my vote
|
|
hoops902
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 13:21:29 GMT -5
Posts: 11,978
|
Post by hoops902 on Jun 17, 2014 12:39:24 GMT -5
You know, thinking about my dating days, it's not really about opening doors, pumping gas or paying for dinner. It seems like when you break it down, it's all about showing someone else that they're important to you and that you care about their feelings. That can take many different forms, as everyone has their own preferences. But when you don't know someone very well, some basic chivalry can help. Except some people apparently feel this chivalry should not just apply to those you're dating, but to all females. I might go pump the gas for my wife, but it's because I'm being nice to her, not because I feel like "females shouldn't pump gas". Chivalry is typically meant as a specific type of behavior by men toward women (not specifically by men towards a woman they are romantically interested in).
|
|
Sam_2.0
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 15:42:45 GMT -5
Posts: 12,350
|
Post by Sam_2.0 on Jun 17, 2014 13:59:48 GMT -5
I would probably be offended if someone ordered for me. How does my date know what I'm in the mood to eat? Lol. Your date doesn't choose your food for you. You pick out what you want to eat from a menu without prices (his version has them) and tell him. He then places your (and his) order with the waiter.
I grew up dating more or less like this. My menu usually had prices, though. We didn't dine at really fine restaurants.
LOL, ok, that makes more sense. But I've never been to a place like that. DH will sometimes be the one to say all of our orders or I will, whoever is sitting closest to the server if we are in a booth (which we tend to prefer with DD).
|
|