midjd
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Post by midjd on Jun 16, 2014 14:38:12 GMT -5
I don't really care about chivalry - I like courtesy, but don't think the performance of such courtesy has to be based on gender. I'm as happy if a woman holds the door open for me as I am if a man does, and am just as likely to hold the door open for a woman as I am for a man.
There is a guy at work who drives me nuts - very nice guy, and his heart is in the right place but he WILL NOT exit the elevator before a woman - even if the woman is behind him. There have been several times when I've had to shove around him in a crowded elevator because he refuses to get out before I do!
(Seriously dude, I truly appreciate the sentiment, but get the F out of my way! )
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jun 16, 2014 14:39:58 GMT -5
Too bad you're not still pregnant - you could push past him with a cry of "pregnant lady needing the bathroom. Outta my way!" and make a beeline past him.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Jun 16, 2014 14:44:53 GMT -5
Let's not forget giving up your seat for someone who is pregnant or obviously having some physical issues.
I had to laugh a couple of weeks ago when I was loading 5 gal buckets of paint in my car. They are heavy for sure but I'm used to carrying them around. The guy at the paint counter wouldn't let me load it into my cart (ok he's an employee) and the guy parked next to me asked if he could help (he was loading other stuff into his truck). I politely declined and loaded one bucket behind the driver's side and then was going to lift the other into the passenger side. The guy insisted on loading the second bucket into my car (politely). I was o.k. with that because I didn't want to smack his truck with my cart. Then he turnaround and told his helper to finish loading his truck.
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Jun 16, 2014 14:45:55 GMT -5
On the other hand, please don't tell the pregnant lady what she is and isn't allowed to do. I appreciate people looking out for me, but I know my limits and if I want to pick up something on my own I will. Seriously annoys me.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jun 16, 2014 14:48:47 GMT -5
I'm an old-fashioned type of woman and I appreciate an old-fashioned man. I'm not sure "old fashioned" is even the correct term to use. I guess what I mean is before the point where women started getting pissed off at every little thing - like having a door held open for them. While I appreciate chivalry, I don't expect it.
It's like any other compatibility issue, Phoenix. If you are comfortable holding a door open for a woman, do so. If the woman you hold the door open gets offended by it, she's probably not the woman for you anyway. If you don't like holding doors for a lady, and the lady you are with gets upset, she's probably not the woman for you. Again, don't change yourself for someone. Find someone of a like mind. For instance, when I start looking again, I'll look for someone "old-fashioned". If I was more of a modern woman, I'd probably look for a more modern man. Conduct yourself in a manner you are comfortable with (as long as it's legal!).
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jun 16, 2014 14:49:22 GMT -5
In short Phoenix, there is no real standard. Just be polite and do what you're comfortable with.
And don't take it personally when someone tries to do something polite for you and it's not on your mental list of what's good or bad. IF that makes sense.
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Jun 16, 2014 14:50:11 GMT -5
I like good manners and have tried to instil it in to my kids. Hold the door open. Offer a seat if someone senior is wanting to sit down. Don't leave the table without asking to be excused. Please and thank you. Don't butt in to someone else's conversation...ie wait for a pause. Introduce your guests to each other. I wouldn't expect chivalry necessarily from a man......but would want the social niceties....
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 16, 2014 15:19:30 GMT -5
... the guy parked next to me asked if he could help ... There is a fantastic concept: Ask and respect the response.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 16, 2014 15:28:39 GMT -5
On walking on the street side:
I read somewhere that this is a good practice unless the more likely risk was from alley openings you were passing on the walk.
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Jun 16, 2014 15:33:27 GMT -5
I don't mind manners. I just don't like making a big fuss about treating women differently, especially in the workplace.
What I object to is when you in a business setting, walking towards a door, and someone behind you rushes to the front and purposefully opens the door to open it for you. If someone is in front of you, it is polite to hold open the door. If I am in front I will hold it open for a guy behind me, that is just polite. I just don't like being treated like I am incapable of opening a door when my hands are free.
Same thing with elevators. If a guy is closest to the door, he should exit first! Don't make a fuss about letting the lady in the back out. If you are together, sure let the woman go first, that is polite.
When DH and I go out to dinner, I usually pay. It is from a joint account anyway! And I have easier access to the credit card in my purse than he does in his wallet.
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Jun 16, 2014 15:35:49 GMT -5
Don't butt in to someone else's conversation...ie wait for a pause. I do that! I was taught never to butt in. Unfortunately, in working with guys, sometimes I have to just to get heard. DH is a talker, I am not, sometimes when we are in a group he will ask me why I didn't say anything, I tell him that he talks so much I can't get a word in!
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Jun 16, 2014 15:43:30 GMT -5
::So what do you think? What type of traditionally chivalrous behavior is appropriate and when?::
I would say nothing, but typically I tie "chivalry" to "what does a man do for a woman". If we're talking something else my answer my change. I believe in equality. There might be things I do because I'm in a relationship with someone, but nothing I do for women in the general public.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jun 16, 2014 15:54:17 GMT -5
I usually hold the door open for people behind me (gender doesn't matter) in most public venues unless I'm in a hurry or they're way back there. If I'm with someone, like a date, I usually do if it makes sense. But since I'm a tall guy it would be just as rude to dart around someone you're walking behind to open the door for them.
I usually don't open car doors for people because it takes too long to open the door, have them get in, and run around to the other side. I might do this for a formal occasion, but not everyday.
It honestly never occurred to me to pump gas for anyone. I always viewed it as the driver's/owner's responsibility to fill up the car, regardless of gender.
I would never dream of ordering food for someone else unless they were gone or specifically asked me to.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jun 16, 2014 15:58:13 GMT -5
Opens my car door, stands up when I leave or come back to the table ( if we are out- not at home) pays if we go out. I tried to buy breakfast once and I thought he'd have a cow. I wish he'd back off a bit but I do like his manners. Holds doors open. Hmmm, I'm not familiar with the custom of getting up when the person your with leaves or comes back to the table, unless you to need to let them into a booth or something.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jun 16, 2014 16:03:33 GMT -5
I don't focus just on the chivalry- I think it's a matter of comment decency. I hold the door open for people if they are coming in behind me. A gentleman held the one door open for me this am at the post office because I had three big boxes in my hands. Of course it was an artic entry set up so I still had to juggle to open the second set of doors.
If I'm driving I pump the gas. My car, my responsibility. If I'm with DH he will pump the gas for me and my son will usually offer.
Chivalrous behavior I would deem appropriate: 1. Offering to open the door to a building- especially if my hands are full. Great thanks. Do I expect you to run across the room to beat me to the door? Absolutely not. 2. I find the whole opening a car door for me weird unless you are the valet and expecting a tip. 3. I usually appreciate it when my employees insist I sit in the front seat. I get motion sick and usually they insist I sit up front- not sure if they don't want to risk me getting sick or just want to stay on my good side.
Inappropriate- Please dear god don't call me Ma'am. I don't need to hear that. Usually at stores now they read my credit card and either say "thanks Sheila" or "thank you Mrs...." which is somewhat presumptuous because I don't wear a wedding ring. Eh, I kind of prefer the generic "sir" to having clerks at stores call me by name.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jun 16, 2014 16:10:14 GMT -5
I don't expect grand gestures or anything, but small courtesies are nice, like if we're arriving at the door at the same time. I will also hold it open for the other person. I always pump my own gas, but if I'm all dressed up, I would really appreciate it if a guy would step up and offer to pump it for me so that I don't risk smelling like gas afterward. I worked with a couple of upper 50's - lower 60's ladies who had never pumped gas in their entire lives, but really led pretty self-sufficient lives otherwise. I don't get it. It seems like it could be a pita to me--husbands having to make a special trip to the gas station for them. I don't know, I might consider pumping gas for someone I'm in a relationship with, but not for acquaintances. If on travel for work, the person paying for the gas pumps the gas.
I would not go as far as to actually drop what I'm going and go out to a gas station to pump gas for someone, no way in hell. I could not be with someone lacked that much self sufficiency.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jun 16, 2014 16:12:55 GMT -5
Opens my car door, stands up when I leave or come back to the table ( if we are out- not at home) pays if we go out. I tried to buy breakfast once and I thought he'd have a cow. I wish he'd back off a bit but I do like his manners. Holds doors open. Hmmm, I'm not familiar with the custom of getting up when the person your with leaves or comes back to the table, unless you to need to let them into a booth or something. I still see guys do it and I love when we are out with another couple having dinner and DF does it for me and even for the other wife. Goes along with holding chair out for them.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jun 16, 2014 16:13:38 GMT -5
My girlfriends envy me his manners. I'm sure their husbands are less than thrilled!
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justme
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Post by justme on Jun 16, 2014 16:25:33 GMT -5
Opens my car door, stands up when I leave or come back to the table ( if we are out- not at home) pays if we go out. I tried to buy breakfast once and I thought he'd have a cow. I wish he'd back off a bit but I do like his manners. Holds doors open. Hmmm, I'm not familiar with the custom of getting up when the person your with leaves or comes back to the table, unless you to need to let them into a booth or something. It's very old school. I forget the reasoning behind it. My reasoning for thinking it's weird probably stems from being a kid when Pretty Woman came out and watching that scene.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jun 16, 2014 16:33:06 GMT -5
I don't know the reason, either. Dad did it for Mom. I guess I just thought it was normal. I know younger people don't. To each their own.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Jun 16, 2014 16:38:50 GMT -5
I only stand up when someone returns in hopes that I get a momentary glance down their top, I'm pretty sure that's the reason guys do it.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jun 16, 2014 16:39:42 GMT -5
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jun 16, 2014 17:11:33 GMT -5
I don't know, I can't think of any real reason to stand when someone comes or goes from the table.
I think standing and only sitting before someone else does is a sign of deference. For example, in a courtroom everyone is told to stand until the judge takes a seat. In formal military situations, everyone stands until the senior officer takes a seat ect. But again, I think that's incredibly old school, not something I'd do.
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quince
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Post by quince on Jun 16, 2014 17:15:49 GMT -5
I like to be treated with courtesy. Hold the if you get there first and I will do the same. Treat me politely and like a human being and don't come up with special things to do just because I have a different genital configuration.
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resolution
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Post by resolution on Jun 16, 2014 17:16:07 GMT -5
I usually hold the door open for people behind me (gender doesn't matter) in most public venues unless I'm in a hurry or they're way back there. If I'm with someone, like a date, I usually do if it makes sense. But since I'm a tall guy it would be just as rude to dart around someone you're walking behind to open the door for them.
I usually don't open car doors for people because it takes too long to open the door, have them get in, and run around to the other side. I might do this for a formal occasion, but not everyday.
It honestly never occurred to me to pump gas for anyone. I always viewed it as the driver's/owner's responsibility to fill up the car, regardless of gender.
I would never dream of ordering food for someone else unless they were gone or specifically asked me to. What you are doing sounds fine. Anyone that gets uptight over which courtesies you observe is probably wound too tight to have fun with anyway. DH will open doors including the car door for me to get in the car. I won't sit and wait for him to open it getting out, so its just getting into the car. He will also pump the gas if he is in the car when I fill up (I fill up maybe once every two months so this is kind of rare). I have also had a girlfriend pump gas for me on a road trip when we were splitting expenses and taking turns filling up the tank. In general I expect men to open a building door for me, so if some one is running past me I will give them a second to start opening it before I open it myself. It doesn't bother me if they don't, but I don't like crashing into them as we both race for the door, so I will give them a chance to avoid the collision. I will also open for someone that is behind me or I will rush to open it if someone has their hands full. The guy standing in the restaurant when I get out of my chair feels awkward to me. Also no one has attempted to order for me, but I would be very uncomfortable with that.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jun 16, 2014 17:18:37 GMT -5
I like good manners and have tried to instil it in to my kids. Hold the door open. Offer a seat if someone senior is wanting to sit down. Don't leave the table without asking to be excused. Please and thank you. Don't butt in to someone else's conversation...ie wait for a pause. Introduce your guests to each other. I wouldn't expect chivalry necessarily from a man......but would want the social niceties.... I would give my seat up to a senior citizen, but I almost never take public transportation. The only time it'd be applicable to me is when riding the train at the airport, but I honestly prefer standing on those anyway. If I'm going on a 3 hour flight, I stand while I can.
Hmmm, I'm not sure about leaving the table without asking to be excused. I haven't done that since I was a kid. I eat mostly alone, and when I do eat with others it's rarely that formal. When I'm in a group of other adults eating, I'll usually finish eating and wait for the others to be done eating and the it looks like everyone's ready to go before leaving.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jun 16, 2014 17:20:22 GMT -5
What's the reason for a guy walking street side?
Is it so if a car sideswipes the sidewalk the guy will get run over and not the girl?
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jun 16, 2014 18:03:39 GMT -5
If I remember correctly, I wondered about this once and looked it up. It seems to me I found that this custom originated during the time we had dirt roads, which turned to mud in the rain. The man walked on the outside, so that if mud was splashed, it wouldn't ruin the lady's dress.
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Jun 16, 2014 18:04:24 GMT -5
I really like when people hold the door for me if I am within a few steps of that door. I think it is very rude to drop the door closed right in front of someone. I notice that happens a lot nowdays. Especially by teenagers and young 20 somethings. Parents need to teach their children better manners. We are expecting our first child in a few months and I plan on teaching my child manners. I don't expect cars doors to be opened for me or gas to be pumped for me. Really my pet peave is the letting a door close in my face thing. I also get irritated when people don't say thank you when I do something for them. This isn't always true. I think there are more great kids than we often realize. A few years ago my folks were traveling through central NV. Since Mom was confined to a wheel chair, they often stopped at McDonalds for lunch or a break because the washrooms are big enough to accomodate Mom easily. In this case, they stopped at a McDonalds a block or so from the local high school during the school lunch break. Seeing Dad wheeling Mom toward the entry door, a couple of the guys snapped to and held doors open so that Mom and Dad could easily enter the building. Then, when Dad got in line to order, the high school student ahead of him (different from the door guys) offered his place in line so that Mom and Dad wouldn't have to wait. And, when they were ready to leave, other high school students went out of their way to hold doors open for Mom and Dad to make their departure easier. In the period of about an hour, no less than five high school students went out of their way to assist my parents. While I recognize that the self centered, self absorbed teen is pretty common these days, let's also recognize that there are a lot of polite, well mannered teens who go out of their way to assist others.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Jun 16, 2014 18:12:14 GMT -5
This thread is inspired by a comment Georgiagal made in my handshaking thread, where she mentioned she didn't want guys holding the door for her.
So, what level and types of chivalrous behavior is appropriate in this day and age? Should a man hold a door for a woman at all times? Some of the time? Under what circumstances?
This was years ago, but one time I was out with a group of friends. We were in multiple cars, and one of the cars (not the one I was in) had to stop for gas. We all waited while they pumped gas, and left. Later, one of the girls complained that none of the guys in the other car pumped her gas for her.
I suppose there's also pulling out the chair for a woman you're with, and maybe even going as far as to order for her during a dinner out. That's the only "chivalrous" behavior that immediately comes to mind, but I'm sure there's more.
So what do you think? What type of traditionally chivalrous behavior is appropriate and when?
Chivalry is dead, kindness and politeness is not. I think people should hold the door for me, and likewise I hold it for them; regardless of gender. I don't want anybody pumping my gas or giving up a seat for me on the bus unless I am visibly pregnant or elderly (which of course, I would give up for the same, too).
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