Ridiculous or child abandonment?

[Deleted]

Jun 4, 2014 16:03:37 GMT -5 achelois said:

I walked to school every day at that age, about the same distance. Cannot believe this stuff.  I agree with the father. 

Starting in first grade, I walked alone that far to school every day.

[Deleted]

There is a difference between a routine walk on sidewalks for which you prepare your child, and dropping them angrily along the highway 'about a mile' from home and telling him to walk.

[milee]

Jun 4, 2014 18:58:32 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Abuse? Walking home. Wah, wah, wah. I hope he got it and got it good. He'd be in so much trouble he wouldn't know where to begin. Don't confuse your childhood with what happened. 

You're right that in most cases a child having to walk a mile home from school isn't being abused. And you're right that parents need to discipline children and also to feel comfortable that the child understands what he did wrong so it doesn't happen again. And helicopter parents aren't doing their kids any favors. No arguments from me on any of that. 

I'm saying that based on what this guy is saying and what happened with court, CPS, etc, that I'm not sure I believe that the above points are the complete fact set or even the best way to describe what happened. First off, it doesn't make a lot of sense on the face of it to choose randomly dropping your child off somewhere and making them walk as a punishment for not telling you why they were in trouble at school. That sounds a lot more to me like the dad losing control and booting the kid from the car to hurt and scare him. Effective punishment isn't done by terrifying kids with random, unrelated things you do to hurt them, so it sounds like dad either has poor judgment or isn't telling the whole story. Secondly, depending on the kid, a kid this age may have been truly afraid that the dad was truly abandoning him or leaving him somewhere unsafe where he didn't know how to get home, which is much different than asking a child to just walk a mile.  That's not effective punishment, that's cruel.  Lots of kids that age have very little sense of direction (heck even some adults struggle with that) and distance.  This kid may have felt that he had been abandoned far from home with no chance of finding his way back, for example.  That's a pretty nasty thing to do to a little kid or anyone.  Much different than the blasé statement that the kid was made to walk a mile for punishment.

[zibazinski]

You may be right. You present good points. 

[milee]

Jun 4, 2014 19:06:19 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

Jun 4, 2014 16:03:37 GMT -5 achelois said:

I walked to school every day at that age, about the same distance. Cannot believe this stuff.  I agree with the father. 

Starting in first grade, I walked alone that far to school every day.

Me, too and as I stated earlier, that's not abusive at all. But it's a lot different to walk to school - knowing the way, knowing other kids are also walking, knowing things are working like they're supposed to - than it is to have your father stop the car at some random point and eject you from the car.  You might not know exactly how to get home, how long it's going to take you, will it be dark before you get there, etc and be very scared under the second scenario, where the first scenario is comfy and no biggie.  Context is important.

[Deleted]

Jun 4, 2014 19:15:57 GMT -5 milee said:

Jun 4, 2014 19:06:19 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

Starting in first grade, I walked alone that far to school every day.

Me, too and as I stated earlier, that's not abusive at all. But it's a lot different to walk to school - knowing the way, knowing other kids are also walking, knowing things are working like they're supposed to - than it is to have your father stop the car at some random point and eject you from the car.  You might not know exactly how to get home, how long it's going to take you, will it be dark before you get there, etc and be very scared under the second scenario, where the first scenario is comfy and no biggie.  Context is important.

Good Point! 

[Wisconsin Beth]

Jun 4, 2014 19:11:46 GMT -5 milee said:

Jun 4, 2014 18:58:32 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Abuse? Walking home. Wah, wah, wah. I hope he got it and got it good. He'd be in so much trouble he wouldn't know where to begin. Don't confuse your childhood with what happened. 

You're right that in most cases a child having to walk a mile home from school isn't being abused. And you're right that parents need to discipline children and also to feel comfortable that the child understands what he did wrong so it doesn't happen again. And helicopter parents aren't doing their kids any favors. No arguments from me on any of that. 

I'm saying that based on what this guy is saying and what happened with court, CPS, etc, that I'm not sure I believe that the above points are the complete fact set or even the best way to describe what happened. First off, it doesn't make a lot of sense on the face of it to choose randomly dropping your child off somewhere and making them walk as a punishment for not telling you why they were in trouble at school. That sounds a lot more to me like the dad losing control and booting the kid from the car to hurt and scare him. Effective punishment isn't done by terrifying kids with random, unrelated things you do to hurt them, so it sounds like dad either has poor judgment or isn't telling the whole story. Secondly, depending on the kid, a kid this age may have been truly afraid that the dad was truly abandoning him or leaving him somewhere unsafe where he didn't know how to get home, which is much different than asking a child to just walk a mile.  That's not effective punishment, that's cruel.  Lots of kids that age have very little sense of direction (heck even some adults struggle with that) and distance.  This kid may have felt that he had been abandoned far from home with no chance of finding his way back, for example.  That's a pretty nasty thing to do to a little kid or anyone.  Much different than the blasé statement that the kid was made to walk a mile for punishment.

I just want to point out that my kids, at ages 4.5 and 6, recognize the roads we travel to get to the grandparents houses, their schools and the grocery store.  They don't know street names or directions but they will often pipe up "we're going past school!" when we head out to do errands.  If this is the path traveled most days to get to or from school, an 8 year old should be able to trace it back home.  I'll grant you their sense of time and distance is likely to cause them to panic somewhat every few blocks though.  And I'm not disagreeing per se with the rest of your post. 

I did boot my sister from the car once.  I was picking her up from something or other.  I thought she was being a bitch and booted her from the car.  I think I was about 17/18, so she'd have been 13/14. 

[milee]

Jun 9, 2014 10:43:02 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

Jun 4, 2014 19:11:46 GMT -5 milee said:

You're right that in most cases a child having to walk a mile home from school isn't being abused. And you're right that parents need to discipline children and also to feel comfortable that the child understands what he did wrong so it doesn't happen again. And helicopter parents aren't doing their kids any favors. No arguments from me on any of that. 

I'm saying that based on what this guy is saying and what happened with court, CPS, etc, that I'm not sure I believe that the above points are the complete fact set or even the best way to describe what happened. First off, it doesn't make a lot of sense on the face of it to choose randomly dropping your child off somewhere and making them walk as a punishment for not telling you why they were in trouble at school. That sounds a lot more to me like the dad losing control and booting the kid from the car to hurt and scare him. Effective punishment isn't done by terrifying kids with random, unrelated things you do to hurt them, so it sounds like dad either has poor judgment or isn't telling the whole story. Secondly, depending on the kid, a kid this age may have been truly afraid that the dad was truly abandoning him or leaving him somewhere unsafe where he didn't know how to get home, which is much different than asking a child to just walk a mile.  That's not effective punishment, that's cruel.  Lots of kids that age have very little sense of direction (heck even some adults struggle with that) and distance.  This kid may have felt that he had been abandoned far from home with no chance of finding his way back, for example.  That's a pretty nasty thing to do to a little kid or anyone.  Much different than the blasé statement that the kid was made to walk a mile for punishment.

I just want to point out that my kids, at ages 4.5 and 6, recognize the roads we travel to get to the grandparents houses, their schools and the grocery store.  They don't know street names or directions but they will often pipe up "we're going past school!" when we head out to do errands.  If this is the path traveled most days to get to or from school, an 8 year old should be able to trace it back home.  I'll grant you their sense of time and distance is likely to cause them to panic somewhat every few blocks though.  And I'm not disagreeing per se with the rest of your post. 

It's good that your kids have that sense of direction.  I did, too, as a kid.  Very helpful.

On the other hand, my younger sister has always been able to get lost no matter where she is.  When she first started driving and wanted to drive to school - a route she'd known for 6 years, she got lost for the first week.  And that was when she was 16. 

We don't know if the kid in the OP was like your kids or like my sister, and that's part of why we don't know how cruel or OK the dad's actions were.

[Wisconsin Beth]

I didn't know anyone didn't have that sense of direction.  Good point. 

[andreawick]

Jun 4, 2014 15:57:20 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

That's complete overkill. It was a MILE, it isn't like he asked the kid to walk the entire island.

Meanwhile in Iowa a sexual predator got let out after only 6 months because of "good behavior" then turned around and killed another girl.

This country has screwed up priorities.

Don't kids still run a mile in gym class??

I remember running the mile in 1st grade?

Besides, apparently there is an obesity problem in this country...walking is the best exercise...

[andreawick]

Jun 4, 2014 18:28:45 GMT -5 @missmargarita said:

Jun 4, 2014 18:26:03 GMT -5 Gardening Grandma said:

Quote:
"He learned that his neighbor found the boy, but rather than bring him home, took him to school and called police."

I'm pretty sure once he got to the school the school took over and instead of first trying to get a hold of the parents, they called the police instead.  I know I can't just walk into the school office and use the phone.  Gladys at the front desk would make the call.

What about Doris??

[muttleynfelix]

Jun 4, 2014 18:45:50 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

I don't think it matters. It was between them until some busy body do gooder got involved. I'd beat my kids ass for getting into a car with a stranger. If the kid knew the adult then shame on the adult for not just taking the kid home. A LOT of people overstepped their boundaries here. 

Google Hailey Owens. Kids don't always have the choice about getting in the car or not.  Even when they run away, they don't always get away. Even with other adults within shouting distance.  

[Deleted]

I lost my daughter in a Romanian village when she was 7... She knew her aunt lived on the end of the road, but when we found her she was on the other end. Get turned around once...


I've found that there are many places you go over send very but until you walk/ drive them, your perspective is different. My kids tend to daydream, listen to books/music... Not memorize routes in the car.

[muttleynfelix]

Yeah, well. Shit happens. Heck, it always has happened.  This one just happened 4 blocks from my BIL's house (and she went to the school that my boss's wife works at).     So, it started to hit a little close to home.  

Back to the topic.  I'm torn. My son answers I don't know a lot when he knows exactly what happened and knows he is going to get in trouble.  Now he is 4.5 and not 8. We don't hover or helicopter .... to the point we probably made some other campers a little freaked out on our vacation.  We were nearby, but we gave them the illusion of freedom.  That also gives other people the illusion that your kids have maybe too much freedom.  If in 4 years, I made my DS walk a mile home, well, it would just be down our road. No turns to make, no sidewalks, but no cross streets.  I know he could do it, but if we were both upset and yelling, or he sat down on the road to cry and a car came barreling over a hill.  The whole story would be nice before making a judgement.

[hoops902]

::You understand the kid WAS picked up... If he'd been raped, or killed, or disappeared, or hit, or got lost... I'm guessing your response would have been? What... Kid was just too soft? Parents were just trying to do the right thing...? ::

So from birth until adulthood you never left your kid alone anywhere for any reason?  You just keep posting about all the horrible things that COULD have happened, but didn't, completely ignoring that all those things that could have happened could happen to anyone, any age, anywhere.

[hoops902]

A lot of people arguing over whether it's appropriate punishment, or if dad is a hot-headed jerk, adn lots of other stuff.

My question is does it matter if dad is a hot-headed jerk or whether he thought out this punishment?  Either dropping your kid off to walk this road home is endangering him or it isn't.  It's no better or worse if dad endangered him after thinking it out or did it out of momentary anger.

Having a short fuse isn't a crime, being a jerk father isn't a crime.  He endangered the child or he didn't.  I'm not sure the motivation matters all that much.

[Deleted]

The differences we are pointing out are ones of preparation. Was the kid equipped with the necessary knowledge, skills, ability, temperament, etc to enable him to walk home on his own from the point dropped, under the situation dropped... Or did dropping him in such manner at such spot put him in potential danger. <br><br>I believe, from what I've read and saw, it is more than possible that dad, in this situation, acted in a manner which put his child in potential danger. For this reason, I'm more than willing to assume that officials who know the details of the situation better than I do, made a good call. <br>

[973beachbum]

This may be something of a city mouse/country mouse thing also.  Where we live there aren't a lot of roads that have sidewalks.  Some shore towns or urban centers do but that is really more for the tourists than in the places where people actually live.    NJ's rules on courtesy bussing require students in K-8 to walk up to two miles.   In the town we used to live in 90% of the kids did walk.  DD's elem school had lots of kids who lived across a state highway.   Plenty of parents did complain that it was dangerous to expect a elem school aged kid to cross a state highway to walk to school.  They were simply told that if they felt their child couldn't do it on their own they should accompany them.  This was a mostly working class neighborhood. 

People would occasionally call the police and report a kindy type aged kid by them self walking on the side of the highway.  All the police would do is send someone out to help them cross the street if they were still there.  And this wasn't in the  paleozoic era it was ten years ago and far as I know it still goes on today.

My point is no sidewalks alone can't really be the metric for letting kids walk by themselves.  If it was no all the HS grads would go off to college having never done it by themselves.

[formerroomate99]

Sounds like there could be more to this story, but it could be either way. A neighbor who doesn't like the father meets his upset kid. After that, the police and CPS may be forced to act a certain way, even though they all think it is silly. Or it could be that the neighbor and the police both know the father has a temper and acted accordingly. Hard to tell.

[zibazinski]

Should have never made the paper. Press is so busy publishing crap that they don't bother to publish news anymore.

[zibazinski]

Best to work on relationship with son so son stops lying. Did son lie because he was afraid to tell the truth or did he lie because he's a liar? Either way, there's a problem.

[Deleted]

Jun 4, 2014 16:16:07 GMT -5 oped said:

The fact remains, some person picked this kid up in a car... Luckily it was a Good Samaritan who took him to school... Could have been do done else. If that is a possibility, the kid shouldn't have been on the road alone ...

I'd punish my kid again for getting in a car with a stranger    I'd probably end up getting life in prison!


Seems like complete overkill to me. Arrested? What, are we supposed to grow pouches and keep the kids attached to us for 16 years?

When we were in a small, isolated community that was safe, I let my kids walk all over the island at that age. I would never have considered it endangerment. 

[Deleted]

Yes, it is possible that, depending on the situation and circumstances, something could be endangering one place and not in another...     As people have said, over and over again. The suggestion that this kid was placed in danger in this situation is not equatable to keeping all kids in a pouch for the rest of their lives. Stop generalizing. 

And once again zib places all the blame in the kids. Sometimes I wish I had zibs daughter's address, just to send her a card or something...

[zibazinski]

I'd give it to you if I thought it'd do you any good.

[zibazinski]

My kids knew they'd get in more trouble for lying than for whatever they did wrong. You start with that premise, you don't get liars for kids.