Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jun 3, 2014 11:23:44 GMT -5
The bottom line is that daisy duke shorts aren't appropriate dress for certain functions (school being one of them). Yes, a woman should be able to wear anything she wishes without being sexually harassed, etc. but I am not sure what that has to do with not wanting a teenager to show to school with her ass hanging out of her shorts. Kids need to learn how to dress for the situation and it has nothing to with what a man does or doesn't think... that is actually irrelevant IMO. Not sure why this thread even went there... maybe I missed something... Just as I wouldn't show up to work in short shorts the same should apply to schools. Not sure why teaching kids how to dress appropriately for the situation has to turn into something it isn't... But no one is saying these were daisy duke shorts. Or that her ass was hanging out. Just that when her hands were at her sides, she couldn't touch fabric. Unless I missed something in the article? And depending on her body proportions (long arms, short torso), she could very easily have a hard time finding shorts that met the requirement of hands touching fabric with her fingertips. When I stand with my arms at my side, several pairs of my shorts are shorter than my fingertips. And my ass isn't close to hanging out of any of them. I do agree shorts that have anyone's ass hanging out of them are not proper wear, anywhere. No one needs to see other people's asses in public, in my opinion. And some schools focus more on what girls are wearing because "it's distracting to the boys" Well, hell, LIFE is distracting. We all have to learn how to deal with distractions physical and mental. A girl wearing shorts that come to mid thigh on a hot day shouldn't be an issue. But for some schools, it's apparently the girls responsibility to make life easier for the boys by the way they dress. Which I don't get. Everyone needs to take responsibility for themselves. And yes, I have a boy and girl and teaching them responsibility is not easy.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Jun 3, 2014 11:24:47 GMT -5
IMO dress codes are in place because people don't know how to dress appropriately. I had to send out an office dress code because the person at the front desk is so dense as to not know what she was wearing to board meetings was completely inappropriate. Hmmm... when you look around the room and everyone is in a suit and you are wearing a short skirt that barely covers your ass you would think a would go off but apparently not.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 3, 2014 11:29:43 GMT -5
And some schools focus more on what girls are wearing because "it's distracting to the boys" That's how it was at our high school too. Girls in tank tops were "distracting" and needed to be covered up. Overweight guys in sleeves sports jerseys that left little to the imagination at times were acceptable because at least according to some teachers "it wasn't a tank top". I don't want to see man side boobs anymore than I want to see women side boobs. Eventually it got changed to the jerseys also counted as tank tops and if a guy wanted to wear them he had to have a shirt under/over it. Guys couldn't wear T-shirts they'd cut the sleeves off of anymore either, those also counted as tank tops. Which makes sense and is fair to everyone. Why are my shoulders considered too distracting and interfering with school work but the hairy overweight guy with his boobs hanging out is perfectly acceptable?
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Jun 3, 2014 11:33:02 GMT -5
I have no problem with teaching boys to control their behavior and to treat women with respect. But I also think we need to teach boys and girls to be aware of their surroundings and make smart decisions that affect their health and safety. And it doesn't just apply to rape, but any number of different situations. I don't really care if the focus shifts to something else in a thread I start, I know once I release a thread into the wild I don't control the direction it takes. I'm just disapointed and frustrated some people seem to take the discussion, and differences of opinion personally. I don't reall feel guilt or frustration over being a male in a discussion about rape culture. After all, I've never raped or attacked a woman, and I imagine Virgil or any other man here probably hasn't either. But I think in discussion on topics related to feminism, the male viewpoint is all too often ignored and dismissed as "you'll never get it" as Justme said.Sort of like we'll never get how much it hurts to get kicked in the balls? I think it's hard for a guy to really REALLY understand the feeling you get when some guy invades your personal space, even if they are "ONLY" standing too close. As milee and others pointed out, whatever kind of physical shape I'm in, I will not win that fight IF he intends to start one. Yes, almost anyone will feel uncomfortable with someone in their space, but the difference is, YOU (the general male you) can do something about it.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jun 3, 2014 11:46:38 GMT -5
And some schools focus more on what girls are wearing because "it's distracting to the boys" That's how it was at our high school too. Girls in tank tops were "distracting" and needed to be covered up. Overweight guys in sleeves sports jerseys that left little to the imagination at times were acceptable because at least according to some teachers "it wasn't a tank top". I don't want to see man side boobs anymore than I want to see women side boobs. Eventually it got changed to the jerseys also counted as tank tops and if a guy wanted to wear them he had to have a shirt under/over it. Guys couldn't wear T-shirts they'd cut the sleeves off of anymore either, those also counted as tank tops. Which makes sense and is fair to everyone. Why are my shoulders considered too distracting and interfering with school work but the hairy overweight guy with his boobs hanging out is perfectly acceptable? So? What's your beef? They recognized the hypocrasy of it and (rightfully) made the change. And you've been out of high school for over 10 years, so they made it a while ago, and presumably it's still in place.
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teen persuasion
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Post by teen persuasion on Jun 3, 2014 11:48:30 GMT -5
School dress code reasons vary with the school and its philosophy. My DH's school has a stricter policy than my kid's school, because of its population: troubled kids. They are trying to limit all distractions, not just hormonal ones, by forcing them to look the same. Khaki pants, polos, no jewelry whatsoever. These kids need the lower distraction level, because they are so easily distracted; the school is doing whatever it can to get their focus back on education. My kid's school dress code is more relaxed, but still has the fingerlength rules, etc. Those rules are more a need to put some standards out there, since some families have none, honestly. Kids being kids, some feel the need to push boundaries in any way they can. Teens definitely dress to seek attention, and not necessarily just from the opposite sex. And the guys do definitely at times need to be told to put some clothes on! My boys are/have run XC and track, and some of the members like to run shirtless ("Sun's out, guns out, guys"). The serious runners also wear skimpy shorts, rather than the long ones in fashion now, regardless of what other kids think/say. Enforcement of dress code can really be hit and miss, depending on the faculty member. Now I had a uniform, and students tried to push boundaries with that, too. There were no boys to impress, I might add. But skirts got shorter the older we got (and waistbands got rolled), blouses weren't quite the standard uniform cut, earrings got dangly, name tags were barely visible (or traded with a friend ). As another poster mentioned, it's all about control, and the kids are trying to figure out just how much control they have. The smart ones learn that following the rules gets them more leniency, but flouting the rules repeatedly just makes people watch them like a hawk for the next infraction.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Jun 3, 2014 11:49:06 GMT -5
Personally I would be pissed if someone told me I couldn't wear something because the opposite sex would be distracted by me (sadly not really an issue ). What I find much more reasonable appropriate is a code that encourages a standard to be applied evenly to all. If a boy can go around with the top three buttons of his polo undone then so should a girl, no matter how much she's "gifted". And yes - I'm old school and think that a dress code for work and school is appropriate. School is the kids' job, after all. After all, I grew up in ugly plaid, so did DD until now (although her plaid was cool and actually liked by the kids) and I think of uniforms as the great equalizer. Some of the public schools in the area have generic uniforms, and in general I think the parents like it.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 3, 2014 11:56:29 GMT -5
I think things like finger length are too arbitrary personally because everyone's arms/fingers are different. With the tank tops we had some teachers measure in the middle, some at the seam, and some considered any tank top acceptable as long as your bra strap was covered. It got really confusing so they changed it to two inches at the seam. Then you had teachers who nitpicked over that. Saying every shirt must have sleeves would have made everyone's lives easier. Saying a particular style of short like Bermuda shorts only would make more sense since that style is designed to be longer. Otherwise my fingers may touch the end of the fabric but another girl taller than me could be wearing the exact same shorts but not touch it with her fingers. It makes clothes shopping extremely frustrating. Or go to uniforms. I'd be all for uniforms to eliminate headaches. I got a dress code but it's pretty easy: closed toed shoes and either pants or a skirt that goes to my ankles. Even with it being that simple it still ends up for debate during yearly inspections. No where in the code does it say we have to wear closed toed non-skid shoes but you'll occasionally get inspectors who slap you over it if you don't.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jun 3, 2014 11:56:48 GMT -5
I have I don't reall feel guilt or frustration over being a male in a discussion about rape culture. After all, I've never raped or attacked a woman, and I imagine Virgil or any other man here probably hasn't either. But I think in discussion on topics related to feminism, the male viewpoint is all too often ignored and dismissed as "you'll never get it" as Justme said.Sort of like we'll never get how much it hurts to get kicked in the balls? I think it's hard for a guy to really REALLY understand the feeling you get when some guy invades your personal space, even if they are "ONLY" standing too close. As milee and others pointed out, whatever kind of physical shape I'm in, I will not win that fight IF he intends to start one. Yes, almost anyone will feel uncomfortable with someone in their space, but the difference is, YOU (the general male you) can do something about it. I don't know. From personal experience, people who complain about getting too much attention from the opposite sex kinda seems like people complaining about making too much money. I can see how random people coming up to you and telling you to smile would be annoying. And I can see how awkward and uncomfortable it would be to have someone stand too close to you, or even touch you. I get that, but still, personally I'd kill for a bit of notice from the opposite sex.
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nogooddeed
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Post by nogooddeed on Jun 3, 2014 11:58:33 GMT -5
IMO dress codes are in place because people don't know how to dress appropriately. I had to send out an office dress code because the person at the front desk is so dense as to not know what she was wearing to board meetings was completely inappropriate. Hmmm... when you look around the room and everyone is in a suit and you are wearing a short skirt that barely covers your ass you would think a would go off but apparently not. This is so true. Of high schoolers and of adults. My company hires a number of college students (great tuition reimbursement plan) and has to actually teach many of those students appropriate dress. But, we have also have problems with all ages, 30s, 40, etc. No, those wrinkled pants or shirts that look like you dug them out from the bottom of the pile of clothes in your bedroom are not appropriate. No, unbuttoning your shirt enough so that your sparse chest chair shows is not appropriate. No, wearing a top that doesn't cover your bra straps is not appropriate. No, wearing thongs flip flops on your feet is not appropriate. Pictures were necessary on that one since some women seem to think that thongs flip flops with "bling" are OK. Um, no - this is a professional office with business casual dress, wear an actual shoe or sandal. No, wearing pants so low cut that your thong shows when you sit is not appropriate. No, wearing a really thin white shirt with a leopard print bra under is not appropriate. No sir, not wearing socks with your shoes is not appropriate. You get the idea.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 3, 2014 12:00:36 GMT -5
No, wearing thongs on your feet is not appropriate.It's "flip flops" now. I read your post a bit too fast and got confused because of course thongs on your feet aren't appropriate.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Jun 3, 2014 12:02:12 GMT -5
This is the terminology my high school used. Maybe I am just a weirdo but I don't really remember anyone wearing inappropriate clothing at my school. I liked mini skirts and wore them a lot but they weren't micro-mini so no issues.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jun 3, 2014 12:02:29 GMT -5
I never got the argument that "I have to wear shorts because it's hot." At my work, you can't wear shorts no matteer how hot it is. When I was in school we had AC, and I assume this school in Canada had AC. So it shouldn't be that big of a deal.
Even when I work outside, like to do surveys, you just gotta grin and bear it, because those are the rule. I have lived so far.
If I can live through wearing jeans under full, level A contamination clothing with a respirator for 5 hours in 90 degree weather, these kids can live through wearing jeans or capris or something during the warmer months.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jun 3, 2014 12:08:00 GMT -5
Back in the ancient 1960s, in my Catholic high school, we young men were not allowed to have square back haircuts. Not that we could immediately change it, but we were warned not to do it again.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jun 3, 2014 12:08:21 GMT -5
So, to try and tie this back to my original post.
Milee, Shannendoah, Justme and others are arguing that school dress codes are sexist and girls should be able to wear whatever they please. And that dress codes are a part of rape culture that makes girls responsible for boys actions.
Do I have that right?
What's the solution then, not have a dress code? I'm not anywhere near as articulate as Milee and Shane are but I'll give this a shot. Schools are for learning all sorts of things - not just reading, writing and arithmetic. You learn respect, social skills and people skills. Some of that includes learning/practicing how to be an adult and function in the adult world. And a lot of us draw not only on what we see/hear in school but what we see/hear at home and in other public places. So yes, people (male and female) should be able to wear what they want when they please. Now, there are laws regarding what you can and can't wear due to decency/indecent exposure, etc. So that's one layer of standard and schools are required to follow that standard. Now, your employer also has a right to determine what they consider appropriate wear. It might be suits, it might be jeans. It might be a uniform. Schools can't really determine what industry/field anyone is going into. Yeah, there's tracks and gifted programs but when push comes to shove, you can't say that someone who's a cheerleader in high school isn't going to be a CEO. Or that the kid barely making it won't be an astronaut. Why are girls/women responsible for anyone's reaction to how they dress? Because society tells them that. How do we change society? You start when people are young. You make them aware that they are responsible for their own reactions and responses. That everyone needs to stand up for what they feel is right, whether it's a dress code or Occupy Wall Street or guns rights. And one of the things that society is trying to change NOW is the unthinking bias that most people over the age of 20 or so have regarding harassment (sexual and racial) of anyone, by anyone. Part of that bias is discounting/judging people based on what they wear. Blacks males in my city get judged (and often juried) based on what they wear. Women get the same thing. And I started rambling and kept getting interrupted in writing this.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Jun 3, 2014 12:10:01 GMT -5
IMO dress codes are in place because people don't know how to dress appropriately. I had to send out an office dress code because the person at the front desk is so dense as to not know what she was wearing to board meetings was completely inappropriate. Hmmm... when you look around the room and everyone is in a suit and you are wearing a short skirt that barely covers your ass you would think a would go off but apparently not. This is so true. Of high schoolers and of adults. My company hires a number of college students (great tuition reimbursement plan) and has to actually teach many of those students appropriate dress. But, we have also have problems with all ages, 30s, 40, etc. No, those wrinkled pants or shirts that look like you dug them out from the bottom of the pile of clothes in your bedroom are not appropriate. No, unbuttoning your shirt enough so that your sparse chest chair shows is not appropriate. No, wearing a top that doesn't cover your bra straps is not appropriate. No, wearing thongs flip flops on your feet is not appropriate. Pictures were necessary on that one since some women seem to think that thongs with "bling" are OK. Um, no - this is a professional office with business casual dress, wear an actual shoe or sandal. No, wearing pants so low cut that your thong shows when you sit is not appropriate. No, wearing a really thin white shirt with a leopard print bra under is not appropriate. No sir, not wearing socks with your shoes is not appropriate. You get the idea. At my old place of employment my supervisor actually did this at a meeting . She wore a white shirt with a black bra. The first time she did this I thought maybe she was just in a rush and made a mistake (it can happen). The 2nd time she did it the staff was talking about how desperate she looked and since I was second in command I felt like I needed to say something to her. She told me she was trying to be sexy. I didn't know what to say to this... she was a 60 yr old woman. I am not saying that 60 yr old women can't be sexy but it was when it is so obvious that you are TRYING that hard it doesn't exactly come across as sexy but rather as desperate and/or seeking attention.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 3, 2014 12:22:06 GMT -5
Maybe I am just a weirdo but I don't really remember anyone wearing inappropriate clothing at my schoolI recall several girls wearing tank tops they were nearly spilling out of, which is what prompted them to change the dress code there. I don't remember inappropriate shorts but then I don't think the trend was super duper shorty shorts back then either. The ones I wore hit around mid thigh. Last time I went into Target and held up a pair of junior's shorts DH commented that there was no way those could be for wearing in public. I've been the same height since middle school so I know it wasn't me who grew! Eventually the trend will swing back around again but it seems like especially with junior's clothing they have to push it as far as they possible can first. I took to wearing jeans all the time when shorts got too small for my comfort.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Jun 3, 2014 12:22:18 GMT -5
Wisconsin Beth - I think we have to disagree on this. IMHO there will always be certain types of clothing/appearances that are appropriate for certain situations and circumstances. If you walk around with your pants hanging down to your knees, what exactly is the message you're trying to send? If it's you can't afford a belt I'd be happy to buy one for you. Seriously - when did that become part of a "culture"? I really don't need to see your underwear out in public... I think we are doing our youth a major disservice by not teaching them well, the truth, that you only get once chance to make a first impression. If a high schooler goes to a grocery store in flip flops, pj bottoms, nose and eyebrow rings and fills out an application - do you really expect the hiring manager to take them seriously when they don't even appear to take their own appearance seriously (I've seen this in person BTW - application went straight into the garbage). It's nice to say people shouldn't be judged on appearances, and I believe that. I think people are judged by the effort they put into their appearance - and I'm ok with that.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jun 3, 2014 12:24:50 GMT -5
This is so true. Of high schoolers and of adults. My company hires a number of college students (great tuition reimbursement plan) and has to actually teach many of those students appropriate dress. But, we have also have problems with all ages, 30s, 40, etc. No, those wrinkled pants or shirts that look like you dug them out from the bottom of the pile of clothes in your bedroom are not appropriate. No, unbuttoning your shirt enough so that your sparse chest chair shows is not appropriate. No, wearing a top that doesn't cover your bra straps is not appropriate. No, wearing thongs flip flops on your feet is not appropriate. Pictures were necessary on that one since some women seem to think that thongs with "bling" are OK. Um, no - this is a professional office with business casual dress, wear an actual shoe or sandal. No, wearing pants so low cut that your thong shows when you sit is not appropriate. No, wearing a really thin white shirt with a leopard print bra under is not appropriate. No sir, not wearing socks with your shoes is not appropriate. You get the idea. At my old place of employment my supervisor actually did this at a meeting . She wore a white shirt with a black bra. The first time she did this I thought maybe she was just in a rush and made a mistake (it can happen). The 2nd time she did it the staff was talking about how desperate she looked and since I was second in command I felt like I needed to say something to her. She told me she was trying to be sexy. I didn't know what to say to this... she was a 60 yr old woman. I am not saying that 60 yr old women can't be sexy but it was when it is so obvious that you are TRYING that hard it doesn't exactly come across as sexy but rather as desperate and/or seeking attention. You know you're a clueless white women when you're chatting with a coworker (technically I was her supervisor) and the fact that white women wear white bras under white shirts and African-American women wear black bras under their white shirts surprises you. I am so not a fashionista and it had never occurred to me before that conversation.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Jun 3, 2014 12:27:43 GMT -5
Like I've said. I'm real old school. None of my shirts are so opaque that you can tell what color bra I'm wearing. For the record, I do not wear white shirts. white, blue, fuschia, leapord print, no one (except DH) ever knows!
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achelois
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Post by achelois on Jun 3, 2014 12:34:17 GMT -5
You would tell ANYONE not to walk a dark alleyway. When was the last time you saw a guy dressed and go "whoa there, you need to tone yourself down so you're not so distracting to the females. You never know what type of attraction you'll get wearing clothes like THAT. I mean, honestly, you're totally deserve and leers or catcalls you get." I have 3 sons. it would be a battle of an enormous proportions if they decided to leave the house wearing pants that didn't cover their entire ass. They also would not be going to school-like places in wife-beater kind of tops. While this kind of look may be not about sexual attention, they would certainly be getting an attention in those type of outfits, in my opinion. And I, as a parent, would not want that. I agree. I am for tasteful clothing for both sexes. As I said, I really would like uniforms because it eliminates much of this problem. Everyone is dressed the same, so nothing to look at and therefore no distractions due to clothing, whether bizarre or immodest. As far as Virgil:If boys/men lose control because of what women are wearing/not wearing, where IS the line? Years ago, ankles were daring and immodest. Then calves. Then knee length skirts were ok. Bikinis were outrageous at first. Always control of what women were wearing. Do we let women go to the beach and risk men suddenly going batshit crazy with their hormonal lusts and what do that say about women supposedly being the hormonal ones and men the cool, rational ones? Men apparently could be ok so long as the fig leaf was in place.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jun 3, 2014 12:35:34 GMT -5
Wisconsin Beth - I think we have to disagree on this. IMHO there will always be certain types of clothing/appearances that are appropriate for certain situations and circumstances. If you walk around with your pants hanging down to your knees, what exactly is the message you're trying to send? If it's you can't afford a belt I'd be happy to buy one for you. Seriously - when did that become part of a "culture"? I really don't need to see your underwear out in public... I think we are doing our youth a major disservice by not teaching them well, the truth, that you only get once chance to make a first impression. If a high schooler goes to a grocery store in flip flops, pj bottoms, nose and eyebrow rings and fills out an application - do you really expect the hiring manager to take them seriously when they don't even appear to take their own appearance seriously (I've seen this in person BTW - application went straight into the garbage). It's nice to say people shouldn't be judged on appearances, and I believe that. I think people are judged by the effort they put into their appearance - and I'm ok with that. I'm part of the people with the unthinking bias that needs changing. I look at people and I comment in my mind on what they are wearing. And I'm ashamed when I do this. But it's really hard to shut that voice down. It happens with men and women, in church and in public. It doesn't happen at work because like 90% of the people I interact with wear a uniform. And yes, sometimes it happens with women who've been assaulted, teens in public or the grocery store and with African-American men in my city. I know I'm part of the problem and I'd rather be part of the solution.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jun 3, 2014 12:38:03 GMT -5
I've never seen a weight loss camp where they put lush double-decker chocolate cakes out all over the campus for the staff to eat, and argue that it's really for the campers' benefit because fatties need to learn the willpower to eat the bean spouts and tofu curd rather than the cake.
The staff may think they're teaching people to have willpower, but they'll wind up getting an education in just how little willpower people have (or even want) when there's a double-decker chocolate cake in front of them.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Jun 3, 2014 12:39:57 GMT -5
I've never seen a weight loss camp where they put lush double-decker chocolate cakes out all over the campus for the staff to eat, and argue that it's really for the campers' benefit because fatties need to learn the willpower to eat the bean spouts and tofu curd rather than the cake. The staff may think they're teaching people to have willpower, but they'll wind up getting an education in just how little willpower people have (or even want) when there's a double-decker chocolate cake in front of them. Seriously, you are comparing women's bodies to chocolate cake?
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jun 3, 2014 12:41:08 GMT -5
So women in shorts are comparable to double-decker chocolate cake?
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Cookies Galore
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Post by Cookies Galore on Jun 3, 2014 12:44:01 GMT -5
Wow.
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quince
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Post by quince on Jun 3, 2014 12:46:17 GMT -5
Women are not things. Women are not chocolate cakes. Women should not be made to dress a certain way because men don't have self control. Men absolutely have self control.
I strongly disagree with sexist dress while not thinking that all dress codes are sexist. Dress codes that forbid men from wearing skirts or earrings are just as bad as those that focus on cuts and styles unique to women's clothing.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Jun 3, 2014 12:48:19 GMT -5
Usually @syonidvl doesn't post things that deliberately stir the pot, so usually I'd try to give him the benefit of the doubt and say he couldn't predict how peeps would respond.
But dude, bringing up chocolate cake as an allegory in a discussion about women dressing in a provocative manner...might want to re-think that one.
I also think men are capable of much more self control then some are giving them credit for.
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Virgil Showlion
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[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jun 3, 2014 12:55:41 GMT -5
I have 3 sons. it would be a battle of an enormous proportions if they decided to leave the house wearing pants that didn't cover their entire ass. They also would not be going to school-like places in wife-beater kind of tops. While this kind of look may be not about sexual attention, they would certainly be getting an attention in those type of outfits, in my opinion. And I, as a parent, would not want that. I agree. I am for tasteful clothing for both sexes. As I said, I really would like uniforms because it eliminates much of this problem. Everyone is dressed the same, so nothing to look at and therefore no distractions due to clothing, whether bizarre or immodest. As far as Virgil:If boys/men lose control because of what women are wearing/not wearing, where IS the line? Years ago, ankles were daring and immodest. Then calves. Then knee length skirts were ok. Bikinis were outrageous at first. Always control of what women were wearing. Do we let women go to the beach and risk men suddenly going batshit crazy with their hormonal lusts and what do that say about women supposedly being the hormonal ones and men the cool, rational ones? Men apparently could be ok so long as the fig leaf was in place. Women go lust-crazy too. They just don't tend to rape men. And while I have no idea how bathing attire affects instances of rape, etc., I do know that "swimsuit editions" and skin mags are the material that men use to stimulate themselves sexually. It's fair to say that skimpier attire has contributed immensely to the sexual objectification of both sexes, but especially women. The problem of sexual assault hasn't gone away, but virtually all of the growth in society's hypersexualization has burgeoned out into other blights like pornography. I don't have the stats on hand, but the number of men and women who consume pornographic material (online and in print) is astronomical. Porn makes up some huge percentage of all online business revenue. And contrary to new age blogosphere opinion, porn does have very real consequences for consumers and society as a whole. The damage it causes isn't anywhere as acute as a sexual assault, but is damage nevertheless. The move from early 20th century modesty to the sexual abandon of the latter 20th century helped usher in the "porn era". Thus in addition to the acute pains of sexual assault, child molestation, date rape, etc., we also have a very subdued but equally destructive cancer eating away at society's underpinnings. As for the optimal balance between modest and skimpy attire, I don't know. I have my own opinions. My only opinion relevant to this discussion is that high school students in short shorts is too far on the "skimpy" side, and I'm encouraged to see that more than a few people here agree with me.
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Virgil Showlion
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[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jun 3, 2014 12:59:35 GMT -5
I've never seen a weight loss camp where they put lush double-decker chocolate cakes out all over the campus for the staff to eat, and argue that it's really for the campers' benefit because fatties need to learn the willpower to eat the bean spouts and tofu curd rather than the cake. The staff may think they're teaching people to have willpower, but they'll wind up getting an education in just how little willpower people have (or even want) when there's a double-decker chocolate cake in front of them. Seriously, you are comparing women's bodies to chocolate cake? They say most women prefer chocolate to sex. Men, on the other hand, greatly prefer the sex. The point of the analogy is that ogling girls is a temptation to boys. They know they're not supposed to do it. They know you've told them not to do it. But the temptation is there. In their faces. The heart wants what it wants. I thought chocolate was innocuous enough an example, but if you don't like it use alcohol or gambling or any other vice that suits you.
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