There's booze at the gun range

[The Captain]

EVT1 - I'm jumping into this discussion late but have to say you raise some good points.

If I recall correctly you are yourself a gun owner, so (if I recall correctly) you are not anti-gun per se.  

Personally I believe in the individual right to bear arms, but am troubled by what appears to be an escalation in gun related violence in this country.

I'm having a difficult time reconciling the two. 

What would you propose as a solution?  Our current laws don't seem to be working all that well...

[EVT1]

Jun 21, 2014 19:32:48 GMT -5 The Captain said:

EVT1 - I'm jumping into this discussion late but have to say you raise some good points.

If I recall correctly you are yourself a gun owner, so (if I recall correctly) you are not anti-gun per se.  

Personally I believe in the individual right to bear arms, but am troubled by what appears to be an escalation in gun related violence in this country.

I'm having a difficult time reconciling the two. 

What would you propose as a solution?  Our current laws don't seem to be working all that well...

Of course I am not anti-gun. I think that's where the argument breaks down because people on either side of this assume the other person is the exact opposite of them. 

I am 100% behind the right for a citizen to own a gun. The government has no business at all telling anyone they can't.  Legal history aside- I support SCOTUS on the last decision.  My house, and I have a reasonable right to protect it.  And that's where it goes to shit. What is reasonable.

For a solution- I am not sure there is one- but I would like to see a registration of all guns, an elimination of selling high capacity magazines, and a check on any transfers.  Every weapon should be able to be traced.  As a lot of the GOP people tend to think about the 4th amendment- what do you care if you have nothing to hide?

[The Captain]

EVT1 - Again some good points.  I think for the most part a majority of people would agree with the above as reasonable.  As always, it the very vocal minority that seem to be heard the loudest and somehow get mis-represented.

I consider myself an independent, but have very conservative leanings in some areas.  Some of my friends are Democrats and some are Republicans.  I can't think of a single one who believes high capacity clips and guns are really needed in the individual household.

HOWEVER do you really trust government to be in every part of your business?  Yes, guns should be traced - but I can't help but feel a bit of unease at the thought that someday a decision being made that citizens do not have the right to have a gun and those same registries being used against us.  It's happened before in other countries and I seen a constant erosion of individual freedom in this country and the executive branch increasingly making unilateral decisions.  

To be honest, (and I like to think I'm a reasonable person) I'm getting more uncomfortable with the actions of the executive branch every day.

[Deleted]

Jun 22, 2014 8:50:38 GMT -5 The Captain said:

EVT1 - Again some good points.  I think for the most part a majority of people would agree with the above as reasonable.  As always, it the very vocal minority that seem to be heard the loudest and somehow get mis-represented.

I consider myself an independent, but have very conservative leanings in some areas.  Some of my friends are Democrats and some are Republicans.  I can't think of a single one who believes high capacity clips and guns are really needed in the individual household.

HOWEVER do you really trust government to be in every part of your business?  Yes, guns should be traced - but I can't help but feel a bit of unease at the thought that someday a decision being made that citizens do not have the right to have a gun and those same registries being used against us.  It's happened before in other countries and I seen a constant erosion of individual freedom in this country and the executive branch increasingly making unilateral decisions.  

To be honest, (and I like to think I'm a reasonable person) I'm getting more uncomfortable with the actions of the executive branch every day.

I quoted it just so I could "like" it again... 

[EVT1]

It is only a possibility if we allow it- and of course we have the 2nd amendment.

There are just too many gun owners on both sides and politicians know it. Could it happen in 100 years? Sure. The population will get what it wants even if it takes repealing an amendment. The idea that sensible regulation now will directly lead to anything is absurd.  It's a scare tactic by the NRA.

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

Wow - this thread sure took a quick turn from the OP - "Booze at the Gun Range" (having a few shots after taking a few shots) - to a 3 page political debate about gun ownership.

[Deleted]

Define "sensible"... because "sensible" to one person is the same thing that's "going too far" to the next.

Here's a thought... how about we just follow the Second Amendment whereby "... the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed". That statement is so simple and easy to understand it doesn't really need any "interpretation".

"the right of the people"... any confusion there?
"to keep and bear arms"... any confusion there?
"shall not be infringed"... any confusion there?

I know... it's the word "not" that's confusing some people (for the record, not specifying anyone here... just people in general)... isn't it? Some people have never heard the word "no" before and don't understand the concept.

[swamp]

The people who are freaked out about this have obviously never been to hunting camp. 

[Deleted]

I just want to point out that more people are killed every year when alcohol and vehicles mix... but no one is suggesting that a dealership shouldn't have a bar in it... (heck, you might want a drink after you agree to that $700 a month payment!)

[Tennesseer]

Jun 22, 2014 18:56:44 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

I just want to point out that more people are killed every year when alcohol and vehicles mix... but no one is suggesting that a dealership shouldn't have a bar in it... (heck, you might want a drink after you agree to that $700 a month payment!)

How many vehicle dealerships do you know which serve alcohol to customers and have a bar ìn ìt?  A better anaolgy would be you knowing of a automobile dealership which has a bar and serves alcohol to its potential buyers.

[Deleted]

Jun 22, 2014 19:48:11 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Jun 22, 2014 18:56:44 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

I just want to point out that more people are killed every year when alcohol and vehicles mix... but no one is suggesting that a dealership shouldn't have a bar in it... (heck, you might want a drink after you agree to that $700 a month payment!)

How many vehicle dealerships do you know which serve alcohol to customers and have a bar ìn ìt?  A better anaolgy would be you knowing of a automobile dealership which has a bar and serves alcohol to its potential buyers.

I was trying for levity... forgot the "".

[EVT1]

Jun 22, 2014 18:43:15 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Define "sensible"... because "sensible" to one person is the same thing that's "going too far" to the next.

Here's a thought... how about we just follow the Second Amendment whereby "... the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed". That statement is so simple and easy to understand it doesn't really need any "interpretation".

"the right of the people"... any confusion there?
"to keep and bear arms"... any confusion there?
"shall not be infringed"... any confusion there?

I know... it's the word "not" that's confusing some people (for the record, not specifying anyone here... just people in general)... isn't it? Some people have never heard the word "no" before and don't understand the concept.

Well ignoring half of the amendment and history- if you want to play word games then then define "arms" and define "infringed".

Can a recently paroled murderer go buy a gun?  You think they should be allowed to? Wife beaters? Insane lunatics (non-NRA )

Lot of room for interpretation isn't there.

Go the Scalia route- anyone can buy a gun and sell it to a murderer in the parking lot and who cares.

[Deleted]

Arms- weapons, armaments (I thought everyone would know that one)
Infringed- Act so as to limit or undermine (something); encroach on (I thought everyone knew that one too)

No, a recently paroled murderer can't buy a gun. As part of his/her punishment, he/she has forfeited some of his/her rights. It was their choice to forfeit those rights.
Until convicted, a "wife beater" is still a citizen isn't he? I'd say the same thing about a "husband beater" too (no need for us to be sexist).
Until adjudicated to be insane (and therefore locked up), while I would HOPE they wouldn't have a gun, legally they are still vested with full citizen rights.

Not really any room (or need) to interpret, as far as I can see anyway.

I disagree with the "Go the Scalia Route"... there's no infringement by the requirement that guns be bought from licensed dealers and background checks run, nor by the weapons being registered. I'd even be fine with a "spent" round (fired by the new owner, at time of sale, into a ballistics hood) being kept on file with the FBI for future forensic comparison.

[EVT1]

OK then so arms include machineguns, rocket launchers, LAWS rockets, landmines, cannons, or anything else a person can carry?

Infringed equals any law or process that prevent anyone from obtaining the previous?

And finally what the fuck good does it do to have a fired round on file when your entire platform is to allow anyone buy a gun in compete secrecy?

[Deleted]

Jun 22, 2014 21:26:54 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

OK then so arms include machineguns, rocket launchers, LAWS rockets, landmines, cannons, or anything else a person can carry?

Infringed equals any law or process that prevent anyone from obtaining the previous?

And finally what the fuck good does it do to have a fired round on file when your entire platform is to allow anyone buy a gun in compete secrecy?

Where did you get that Idea from? Did you even read the whole post where I said I am AGAINST the "Scalia route" and am FOR checks and registering?

It's hard to carry a cannon... (most people would drag it on a wheeled cart of some sort).. but there's actually no law against cannon ownership. People buy and sell them. they've even transacted (or tried, but couldn't agree on a price) a few on "Pawn Stars"

Landmines... that's a bit of a grey area... because it's not actually a "weapon", it's an "explosive device"

If properly registered, LAWS (and other types of) rocket LAUNCHERS should be allowed as well. I may not PERSONALLY like the idea... but the Amendment is abundantly clear. "the right... ...shall not be infringed"

[EVT1]

Jun 22, 2014 21:57:59 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Jun 22, 2014 21:26:54 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

OK then so arms include machineguns, rocket launchers, LAWS rockets, landmines, cannons, or anything else a person can carry?

Infringed equals any law or process that prevent anyone from obtaining the previous?

And finally what the fuck good does it do to have a fired round on file when your entire platform is to allow anyone buy a gun in compete secrecy?

Where did you get that Idea from? Did you even read the whole post where I said I am AGAINST the "Scalia route" and am FOR checks and registering?

It's hard to carry a cannon... (most people would drag it on a wheeled cart of some sort).. but there's actually no law against cannon ownership. People buy and sell them. they've even transacted (or tried, but couldn't agree on a price) a few on "Pawn Stars"

Landmines... that's a bit of a grey area... because it's not actually a "weapon", it's an "explosive device"

If properly registered, LAWS (and other types of) rocket LAUNCHERS should be allowed as well. I may not PERSONALLY like the idea... but the Amendment is abundantly clear. "the right... ...shall not be infringed"

Excuse me if I confused your position with the NRA- who are on the other side of the background checks.  

But you lost me with legal rocket launchers.

[Deleted]

Don't like the amendment... change it. But be prepared for the slippery slope you start to turn into a slippery cliff face. Once you start eroding rights, it's easy to take away another... and another... and another.



ETA: I don't like that a rocket launcher is legitimately allowed under the amendment... but I like that fact that I am allowed to own guns and protect my family... I fear ANY erosion of this right because, if you watch nature, once erosion starts it doesn't stop until what is eroding away vanishes completely.

[MarleyKeezy78]

I'll be honest, if I was going to shoot a gun at the range there better be shots!!! While I am for the right to bare arms, I am not comfortable shooting and would need a confidence boost  I grew up in a small town home and remember the skeet shoot in the field and I will bet a lot of shots so to say took place there  I remember my Grandpa's bullet making tools as well and I am 35. He died when I was about two, but they were old school and really neat with the lead pellets! 

[frankq]

You want to believe the NRA- have at it. You believe a bunch of people drawing their weapons in a crowded theater is going to help things or stop these incidents- enjoy your fantasy.

I didn't source the NRA. You're the one banging that drum. So you think that if somebody had a sidearm in that theater that nothing different might have happened? So having somebody armed in a situation like this changes nothing? Ever? You talk of your owning guns. If you were there with a weapon, would you have tried to save others? Save yourself? Maybe you're not the type. It takes more than intentions to use a weapon. Maybe you're not cut out for it. That's ok. Don't try to prevent the rest of us from having the means to protect ourselves and our families.

It is perfectly legal in our state- as you know- to open carry, to conceal carry, to be armed as much as we want to- and guess what? Doesn't stop shit- we just had some HS kid arrested a few weeks back planning to shoot up the school. How is that even possible?

It's impossible to say what's been stopped or not by the policy since criminals don't stop by the local police station to tell the cops that they were deterred by a policy. What is really stupid is for people and governments to go out of their way to establish and advertise gun free places where criminals who are armed and have no intention of following the rules can run rampant.

While more guns being in the hands of responsible people might very well have an effect on crime rates- the law making it so also allows complete morons to arm themselves- and you see it all the time. Again- last week some idiot blew half his dick off with a .45 he had jammed into his pants.

We can't protect or legislate against stupid. You can't eliminate every unfortunate accident. We have to act in the best interests of the many. Every once in a while, if some asswipe shoots himself in the pud accidently, oh well. Shit will happens. Try Googling up firearms accidents by police officers. Some cop in Chicago accidently shot the sprinkler line in the friggin police stating last year. Yeah.....a trained cop....It's the law of large numbers.

[frankq]

And finally what the fuck good does it do to have a fired round on file when your entire platform is to allow anyone buy a gun in compete secrecy?

I don't know where you get this shit. FOID cards to purchase arms are the norm out here. Background check with every purchase for decades. The so-called gun show loophole is bullshit too. We have a gun show in the area 4 times a year for a total of 32 hours annually. Do you really think that this is why the country is spiraling out of control? The problem isn't background checks, it's the database that gun grabbers want to establish toward the goal of universal registration. That's the NRA issue. I can't say that I totally agree 100% with every stance they (we) take, but it seems that zero tolerance is the only course gun rights advocates have when Liberals have declared war on the second amendment. You might want to check out how well that "universal registration" worked out in every other country where it's been done. Are you seriously saying that you unequivocally trust the assholes that are running this country right now?

[frankq]

NEWTOWN, Conn.| Residents have rejected a budget that included money for extra school security in the wake of the December school shootings, with town leaders suggesting the spending and required tax increases were a hard sell.


Voters on Tuesday turned down the $72 million school budget by 482 votes and rejected the $39 million town government budget by 62 votes. Nearly 4,500 residents voted on the plans, which would have represented an increase of more than 5 percent next fiscal year.

www.cbsnews.com/news/newtown-conn-residents-reject-budget-with-extra-school-security/

Of all the people..........couldn't be bothered to pony up a few extra bucks for security after such a tragedy, but I thought I heard that somehow they found the dough to bulldoze the school and build a brand new one........And I'm supposed to give up my rights? For 5 fucking percent on the school tab? That's 50 bucks on a thousand that goes to the schools (minus money going to pensions). $750k for security out of 115 million bucks. That's one night of ordering pizza and a tip for delivery maybe a couple of times a year. But there was money to fly these parents all over the country and use them to hawk the anti gun agenda (not that it came from the school budget). I wonder how much of a raise the teachers and school admins got though....Very sad indeed....

 The school board in Newtown, Conn., voted unanimously Thursday night to request an armed guard for each of the district’s four elementary schools.

The armed “security resource officers,” or SROs, operate in the district’s high school and middle schools. According to the school board, the minutes of whose meeting are available online, there has been wide support for adding the officers to elementary schools since the tragic Sandy Hook shooting almost two months ago.

The only remaining barrier appears to be financial: SROs are police officers, and their salaries come out of the police budget, board members explained. The board of selectman and the board of finance still need to approve the school board’s request before police appear in schools.

At the meeting, after board member Richard Gaines read the motion, another board member asked for clarification: “Does this put an officer in each of our schools?” He said. Then: “Is that enough?”

Later, the co-presidents of the Head O’ Meadow parent-teacher association read resolutions passed unanimously by their PTA that urge the board to add more funding for security in general and SROs specifically.


“They’re definitely behind what you did,” co-president Laura Tierney said, emotionally, about the request for SROs. “Thank you.”

The vote comes at a time when there is an ongoing public debate about school security in which Newtown has been evoked time and time again.

In a Dec. 21 address, National Rifle Association Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre advocated for armed guards in schools, arguing that “the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.”

www.washingtonpost.com/national/newtown-board-requests-armed-guards-for-elementary-schools/2013/02/01/762b8e04-6cb2-11e2-8740-9b58f43c191a_story.html

From the Washington Post.....NOT the NRA. Shame that when it can time to actually pay for what they wanted .......well ...rejected....sometimes the only person that can help you is you. How much is safe worth? Not worth 5% more.....It's far easier just to say we need to make stuff illegal for everyone. Especially if it's stuff we don't agree with. Easier and cheaper, even though it's meaningless......

www.businessinsider.com/sandy-hook-school-torn-down-rebuilt-2013-5

[frankq]

For arguments sake- say this one shooter did seek out a softer target- so what? What would your solution be? Force every private business in the country to allow its customers and employees arm themselves? You think that would be the end of mass shootings do you? Fantasyland.

Maybe not stop them all, but I bet there would be fewer and they'd end a lot sooner. I have yet to hear of a mass shooting in a police station. Maybe being armed is not so important to you, unless you happen to be the slowest gazelle in the bunch some asshole bent on CNN fame is ready to shoot up. I'd bet if that were the case you would pray to Jesus that you, or someone else in the group had a weapon......Anyone that can deny that with a straight face is truly full of shit...Or living on Fantasy Island...

[EVT1]

Wow franq- that is a long list but will answer my view the best I can without quoting all of that.

First- ok I am in a dark theater with a movie going and I hear what sounds like gunshots and I am armed- how in the hell am I supposed to know what is going on?  Unless I see a person directly shoot another- and even then I don't know if that person is not shooting the bad guy.  It would be chaos.  No- I will be responsible with my weapon and not fire it unless I know 100% that I am firing on the bad guy.  Don't hand me this ' don't have the balls' bullshit.  FYI the liability follows the bullet- so when you hero up and shoot the wrong person be prepared to lose your house.

Second- the 'gun show loophole' and the 'straw purchaser' problem are 100% factual- and you want to blame a non-existent database for the gun problem -rofl-A database will help fix this problem- and yes I trust the people we elect to do what they should- or we can get rid of them- there is this thing called voting....

Third- there should be SRO's on campus- and as I have said numerous times- have no problem training some teachers to POST standards- and no problem paying them extra for the trouble.

And last- you are completely wrong.  Police stations have been targeted.  But I have to know- is that your vision for the USA- where everyone is armed 24-7?  You really think employees should be armed at work?  Have you worked a job ever?

And PS- being armed is not that important to me- because I am not a paranoid lunatic.  If I find myself in that situation then so be it- I guess I will be killed.  My only reason for my permit is to travel with my weapons and not have to separate the ammo, and I go armed when traveling.  I am normally armed when camping or hiking as well.  But in a theater or grocery store? A restaurant- no thanks.

And PS PS- it is pretty much been proven time and time again that some of these 'bad guys with a gun' are stopped by people with no guns at all- usually while reloading- which of course they would not have to do if we adopt the NRA plan of allowing all of the mass murder equipment to be sold at will.

[frankq]

First- ok I am in a dark theater with a movie going and I hear what sounds like gunshots and I am armed- how in the hell am I supposed to know what is going on

The reference was that someone was shooting at you. The fact that he/she would be looking at you and pointing a weapon is your first clue.

And last- you are completely wrong. Police stations have been targeted.

Try to quantify you comments for a change. Please supply footnotes to police stations that have been targeted by mass shooters. Thanks.

And PS- being armed is not that important to me- because I am not a paranoid lunatic.

Yes, you are. You're afraid that everyone who might have a gun has the potential to either "shoot off half his dick" or kill everyone in sight. You believe that people can't be trusted, yet you want to trust a government system that can't/won't secure its' borders, mistreats it's vets while pocketing bonuses, can't keep vital info at the IRS and takes the 5th, overreaches it's authority to survail it's people...... yeah, I want to give them more reach and authority to curtail a right that I find important even though they have publicly stated that doing so would not have made a difference in the crime committed at the time. The problem is that there are too many people like you that grew up with a network plug up your ass and don't have any idea what privacy is. To guys like you, it's no big deal to send all of your personal info through the air, over the net, whatever. The concept of "none of your business" is foreign to you. It's ok for your lives to be open books. No wonder identity theft is the fastest growing crime. I'm not seeing a whole lot of things that government does exceptionally well. I'm not willing to put absolute trust in a system that only plans as far as the next election and fosters a culture of ineptitude, indifference and a lack of accountability. Paranoid? No. But I've lived through and had front row seats to some of the most tumultuous times in our recent history since Kennedy. Have you? I've seen both the good as well as the bad from our government. Right now, our government isn't capable of sound leadership, and I don't want government borne of biased sensationalistic headlines and editorialism that most of the media calls "news" that only seems to exist to serve itself these days. You want a government to take care of you. I want a government that let's me take care of myself. Want to save lives? Lets ban texting. Period. Way more dying from that than mass shootings. Just had a guy get hit by a giant fucking train out here! Yeah...one of those great big things.....not to mention all the moms I see every day with a car seat or two in the back of the car texting at 45 mph.

Don't hand me this ' don't have the balls' bullshit. FYI the liability follows the bullet- so when you hero up and shoot the wrong person be prepared to lose your house.

You're right. Better off dead than homeless. Just wait until he has to reload. Then run up and just hit him with your scrotum...Please provide quantification and footnotes to show us how often people are losing their homes while legitly defending themselves. Thanks.

And PS PS- it is pretty much been proven time and time again that some of these 'bad guys with a gun' are stopped by people with no guns at all- usually while reloading- which of course they would not have to do if we adopt the NRA plan of allowing all of the mass murder equipment to be sold at will.

Again, please quantify with the appropriate footnoting. It happened recently in California with the guy with a shotgun, but 'time and time again".?.....hmmmmmmmmm I don't think we've heard a lot of that. I've yet to read a story about how numerous people actually ran TOWARD someone shooting at them so that they would be there to disarm him at the moment he was reloading. So in your would, are these shooters that are disarmed in such a manner using flintlocks?

You really think employees should be armed at work? Have you worked a job ever?

Certain jobs, certain times of the day? Yes. Ever been in the wrong neighborhood in the middle of the night on an emergency service call with a truck full of gear and had a couple of guys come for you? I'm sure that some citizen would have come running to help me. These assholes don't just steal stuff anymore...They're hateful. They kill for a few bucks.

Job? Yep. Sure have. Pretty good career. Owned a business at one time too. Retired at 57. Hope you do as well.

[EVT1]

You can read whatever you like into my arguments or mix up defending the home with getting involved in an active shooter situation, branch off into anti-government rants- but you have done nothing to support your position- the facts are what they are.

PS I plan on doing better than 57 by two years   At least semi-retirement- only going to work for myself from then out maybe 2-3 days a week depending on what else I have going on. 

So you are on record as not supporting background checks on all gun transfers, not supporting any registration requirement, and do support keeping high capacity drums and magazines on the shelves in the places they are still legal, correct?

[Malarky]

Back to the "There's booze at the gun range."

This is not new.  I learned to shoot at a gun club in MA when I was a kid. 1960's.   It was also a social club with a bar.  The two were always kept strictly separate.  

Then in the 70's as a teenager in southern New Hampshire we would frequently go offroading and drink and shoot.  Rules were that once you couldn't hit the target, no more gun for you.  

I can hear some of you gasping from here.  But the fact of the matter is that we were self policing. The only injuries ever sustained were from digging the vehicles out of the mud 

We lived in the middle of nowhere.   

One night someone was creeping around our property, running from tree to tree.  I was 14 and alone with my 6 year old brother.  Emptying a clip into a tree to the left of the intruder was incredibly effective in making him leave.  My experience shooting beforehand insured that I didn't actually hit him.  


I'm not going to argue my right to own a gun.  It. Is. My. Right.  

And I won't willing give it up.  

We need to stop focusing on the one offs and recognize that the majority of the gun toting public live very quiet, unpublic lives.  

 

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

Jun 27, 2014 0:42:53 GMT -5 MarleyKeezy78 said:

I'll be honest, if I was going to shoot a gun at the range there better be shots!!! While I am for the right to bare arms, I am not comfortable shooting and would need a confidence boost  I grew up in a small town home and remember the skeet shoot in the field and I will bet a lot of shots so to say took place there  I remember my Grandpa's bullet making tools as well and I am 35. He died when I was about two, but they were old school and really neat with the lead pellets! 

And that right there is ANOTHER reason (or two) why there should NOT be alcohol served at the gun range. You want to have a shot or two after shooting, go to a bar or have a cocktail/beer at home once you're done at the range.

If you're not comfortable shooting, the LAST thing you should be doing for a "confidence boost" is impair your accuracy and control of the weapon with booze. Booze doesn't build your confidence - it blurs your nervousness.

It's scary enough seeing someone nervous about handling/shooting guns doing it while sober - if you feel you need a shot or two in you before firing, I'd suggest you don't shoot a weapon.

Many weapons at the shooting range are much higher caliber/power than what your grandpa might have used back in the day in the field for shooting skeet (usually low-caliber rifles).

[Deleted]

Jun 29, 2014 19:52:53 GMT -5 ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ said:

Jun 27, 2014 0:42:53 GMT -5 MarleyKeezy78 said:

I'll be honest, if I was going to shoot a gun at the range there better be shots!!! While I am for the right to bare arms, I am not comfortable shooting and would need a confidence boost  I grew up in a small town home and remember the skeet shoot in the field and I will bet a lot of shots so to say took place there  I remember my Grandpa's bullet making tools as well and I am 35. He died when I was about two, but they were old school and really neat with the lead pellets! 

And that right there is ANOTHER reason (or two) why there should NOT be alcohol served at the gun range. You want to have a shot or two after shooting, go to a bar or have a cocktail/beer at home once you're done at the range.

If you're not comfortable shooting, the LAST thing you should be doing for a "confidence boost" is impair your accuracy and control of the weapon with booze. Booze doesn't build your confidence - it blurs your nervousness.

It's scary enough seeing someone nervous about handling/shooting guns doing it while sober - if you feel you need a shot or two in you before firing, I'd suggest you don't shoot a weapon.

Many weapons at the shooting range are much higher caliber/power than what your grandpa might have used back in the day in the field for shooting skeet (usually low-caliber rifles).

I'm with ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on this one. If you need a shot before you shoot... you shouldn't be shooting in the first place.

[MarleyKeezy78]

Ok guys, I was teasing about the gun range drinking! I don't handle guns at all so it's all good  Sometimes I forget this isn't EE. 

[frankq]

So you are on record as not supporting background checks on all gun transfers, not supporting any registration requirement, and do support keeping high capacity drums and magazines on the shelves in the places they are still legal, correct?


Yes. You are correct. I don't think requiring background checks and expensive transfers through a FFL between family members solves anything. I don't believe in Federal gun registration. Check the history of registration and the relationship to gun bans in every country that has done it.  I haven't heard of high capacity drums being a big crime problem although I do believe they are simply a novelty. Try hefting a gun with a hundred round drum. I don't think there is a difference in a 20 round or a 30 round mag since it takes all of about 2 seconds to change them. And by the way, they're still legal in the vast majority of the country.


You can read whatever you like into my arguments or mix up defending the home with getting involved in an active shooter situation, branch off into anti-government rants- but you have done nothing to support your position- the facts are what they are.

I'm just reading the words that you write and have done nothing but support my position using a variety of sources and footnoting them.  It is you that continues the same unsupported anti-NRA, anti-carry gun rant. 50% of the stuff you say, and on a variety of subjects, is bullshit. Most of the rest is just nonsense. My comments concerning government only serve to illustrate a point. You misstate the facts, as usual. I didn't post an "anti government rant", but an opinion utilizing examples to show how poorly government handles important things and why I don't want them in more of my business. Your comment regarding them illustrates the foolishness of people like you that can't or won't learn from history. Some people with gray hair have some good information gleaned from first hand experience, not just bullshit that they heard off the TV from some news-fox reading from a biased script. The very liberties you'll enjoy this weekend were earned by many "old anti government" types. You might want to actually look at a copy of the Declaration. A lot of "anti-government types signed it . As far as my posts, I make a habit of using a variety of sources and footnotes in my posts. You should consider trying it. Still waiting for that info on all those mass shootings in police stations though........Speaking of facts, we're still waiting on the footnotes for a lot of other stuff you posted...you did learn about sources and footnotes in school didn't you?

PS I plan on doing better than 57 by two years At least semi-retirement- only going to work for myself from then out maybe 2-3 days a week depending on what else I have going on.

Good for you, but there's a big difference between planning and doing, take it from those of us who have done.........Get back to us if/when you succeed, then we'll talk...