There's booze at the gun range

[EVT1]

Well obviously you do not read what I write if you think I am anti-carry. I am anti-open carry in most circumstances- not all.

As far as retiring- of course plans can become wrecked. I could become disabled tomorrow- but planning is doing. As long as nothing really bad happens I will be there. I went on the Dave Ramsey plan years back-no debt, fully funded retirement, etc.  Just because you may have attained your goal doesn't make you or anyone else anything special- just fortunate life didn't kick you in the balls.

  

 . 

 

 

[frankq]

Jul 3, 2014 21:00:42 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Well obviously you do not read what I write if you think I am anti-carry. I am anti-open carry in most circumstances- not all.

As far as retiring- of course plans can become wrecked. I could become disabled tomorrow- but planning is doing. As long as nothing really bad happens I will be there. I went on the Dave Ramsey plan years back-no debt, fully funded retirement, etc.  Just because you may have attained your goal doesn't make you or anyone else anything special- just fortunate life didn't kick you in the balls.

  

 . 

 

 

Whatever you say.....Life kicked me in the balls plenty. That is life. You heal up and carry on....Still waiting on the info about those mass shootings in police stations.

[EVT1]

 

ktla.com/2014/04/07/lapd-officer-wounded-in-shooting-at-police-station/

      Los Angeles police officer was shot and wounded Monday when a man walked into the front lobby of the LAPD’s West Traffic Division and opened fire with a semi-automatic handgun.

www.cnn.com/2014/06/06/justice/georgia-courthouse-shooting/

     Dennis Marx wore body armor and a gas mask. He brandished an assault rifle, an assortment of grenades, "all kinds of ammunition" and even used his silver Nissan SUV as a weapon of sorts, according to authorities. The 48-year-old man toted his own water supply and flexible handcuffs, presumably to corral hostages once he got inside the north Georgia courthouse

Both within the last few months.  Point is 'gun free zones' are pretty much bullshit when it comes to targeting.

[Deleted]

Jul 4, 2014 12:05:31 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

 

ktla.com/2014/04/07/lapd-officer-wounded-in-shooting-at-police-station/

      Los Angeles police officer was shot and wounded Monday when a man walked into the front lobby of the LAPD’s West Traffic Division and opened fire with a semi-automatic handgun.

www.cnn.com/2014/06/06/justice/georgia-courthouse-shooting/

     Dennis Marx wore body armor and a gas mask. He brandished an assault rifle, an assortment of grenades, "all kinds of ammunition" and even used his silver Nissan SUV as a weapon of sorts, according to authorities. The 48-year-old man toted his own water supply and flexible handcuffs, presumably to corral hostages once he got inside the north Georgia courthouse

Both within the last few months.  Point is 'gun free zones' are pretty much bullshit when it comes to targeting.

BS. Those exceptions don't prove your point. (they do answer frankq's request for proof that it has happened though)

I understand you have your agenda though. So I won't expect you to change your (false) tune.

[EVT1]

No agenda- just tired of hearing about gun free zones being a 'shining beacon that attracts killers' as our local radio show guy likes to rant about.

It is plain as day- gun laws are pretty much inconsequential when it comes to target selection.  Sure schools are targeted and some happen to be gun free- but that's not the reason they are selected are they.  Workplaces are targeted and are usually gun free- but that's not why they are chosen either.

The first mass shooting I remember was Charles Whitman- was a student.

So if I must have an agenda- then it is to call bullshit on the NRA and their perpetuation of this nonsense.

[Deleted]

You can believe it to be nonsense all you like. The facts bear out that it's not.



More violence is done to the innocent in places where there is less likely a chance for resistance.

Less violence is done to the innocent in places where there is more likely a chance for resistance.



The crime rate changes in Kennesaw, Georgia and Chicago, Illinois bear this out. (Kennesaw instituted a "gun in every home" requirement, and the crime rate dropped like a stone, Chicago instituted a gun ban and the crime rate shot up like a rocket).

[EVT1]

Jul 5, 2014 17:52:56 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

You can believe it to be nonsense all you like. The facts bear out that it's not.



More violence is done to the innocent in places where there is less likely a chance for resistance.

Less violence is done to the innocent in places where there is more likely a chance for resistance.



The crime rate changes in Kennesaw, Georgia and Chicago, Illinois bear this out. (Kennesaw instituted a "gun in every home" requirement, and the crime rate dropped like a stone, Chicago instituted a gun ban and the crime rate shot up like a rocket).

So correlation proves causation is what you are saying. 

A full moon causes an increase in violence and the Bermuda triangle eats ships too.  

[Deleted]

Jul 5, 2014 20:58:04 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Jul 5, 2014 17:52:56 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

You can believe it to be nonsense all you like. The facts bear out that it's not.



More violence is done to the innocent in places where there is less likely a chance for resistance.

Less violence is done to the innocent in places where there is more likely a chance for resistance.



The crime rate changes in Kennesaw, Georgia and Chicago, Illinois bear this out. (Kennesaw instituted a "gun in every home" requirement, and the crime rate dropped like a stone, Chicago instituted a gun ban and the crime rate shot up like a rocket).

So correlation proves causation is what you are saying. 

A full moon causes an increase in violence and the Bermuda triangle eats ships too.  

Correlation doesn't prove causation.

Correlation without any other possible cause SUPPORTS causation.

For the record "bear out" =/= "prove"... "bear out" is more in line with "gives credence/credibility to the theory or belief".

[EVT1]

Jul 5, 2014 21:25:26 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Jul 5, 2014 20:58:04 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

So correlation proves causation is what you are saying. 

A full moon causes an increase in violence and the Bermuda triangle eats ships too.  

Correlation doesn't prove causation.

Correlation without any other possible cause SUPPORTS causation.

For the record "bear out" =/= "prove"... "bear out" is more in line with "gives credence/credibility to the theory or belief".

Exactly- and in just about every mass shooting there is another explicit cause.  As I said- the NRA is making the claim- so it's crap unless they can show it isn't. They have the agenda- not me.

Why even argue about it? It isn't like mass shootings are going to stop no matter what we do- we can arm everyone on the planet and it is still going to happen. I take issue with their bullshit narrative, and all of the politicians and pundits that repeat it.  If they can't make their case for the laws they want without resorting to this kind of garbage then they have no case at all as far as I am concerned.

[Deleted]

Jul 5, 2014 21:39:21 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Jul 5, 2014 21:25:26 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Correlation doesn't prove causation.

Correlation without any other possible cause SUPPORTS causation.

For the record "bear out" =/= "prove"... "bear out" is more in line with "gives credence/credibility to the theory or belief".

Exactly- and in just about every mass shooting there is another explicit cause.  As I said- the NRA is making the claim- so it's crap unless they can show it isn't. They have the agenda- not me.

Why even argue about it? It isn't like mass shootings are going to stop no matter what we do- we can arm everyone on the planet and it is still going to happen. I take issue with their bullshit narrative, and all of the politicians and pundits that repeat it.  If they can't make their case for the laws they want without resorting to this kind of garbage then they have no case at all as far as I am concerned.

So, using your logic, you are saying "Because there was some other thing that was at issue, no other things have merit or value"...

Basically: because BF Goodrich makes tires and Firestone makes tires, and all cars drive on tires... all cars are BF Goodrich.


Doesn't make any sense... does it? 


ETA: you also seem to keep forgetting that I happily admit that there are other PARTS to the decision of where to commit gun violence. I just don't EXCLUDE things because I don't like them.

[EVT1]

I am not excluding anything. Occam's razor man- it's a damn fact people shoot up their schools or places of employment. Remember going postal? It wasn't called 'shooting up unarmed mail carriers in a gun free zone-al'.

Tell you what- as soon as one of these mass murderers admit on record that they targeted a particular place because of a no gun sign I will admit that it has happened one time

Until then- you have nothing but speculation- and I will even respect the NRA a hair more than you because they at least have a reason to make shit up.  What's your excuse?

[Deleted]

Occam's Razor. I agree. If more violence happens in places where weapons are either legally banned or otherwise prohibited than happens in places where weapons are either not banned or are actually encouraged... Occam's Razor requires that the fact that there is a ban or prohibition is the simplest answer.

And I don't "make shit up"... that would be the people that believe "'gun free zones' aren't an issue", they are the ones "[making] shit up".

What's your stance in this issue again? Oh yeah... you are on the "'Gun free zones' aren't an issue" side.

[EVT1]

Jul 5, 2014 23:29:54 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Occam's Razor. I agree. If more violence happens in places where weapons are either legally banned or otherwise prohibited than happens in places where weapons are either not banned or are actually encouraged... Occam's Razor requires that the fact that there is a ban or prohibition is the simplest answer.

And I don't "make shit up"... that would be the people that believe "'gun free zones' aren't an issue", they are the ones "[making] shit up".

What's your stance in this issue again? Oh yeah... you are on the "'Gun free zones' aren't an issue" side.

Try again. And I am on the anti-bullshit side, not the anti-gun side. Done here- but make a stand- gun laws according to you should correlate exactly with mass shootings- so why do they not?

In fact nevermind- I guess I will just have to live with the easy murder beacons.   I think I lost a few IQ points even bothering with this.

[Deleted]

Jul 5, 2014 23:57:25 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Jul 5, 2014 23:29:54 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Occam's Razor. I agree. If more violence happens in places where weapons are either legally banned or otherwise prohibited than happens in places where weapons are either not banned or are actually encouraged... Occam's Razor requires that the fact that there is a ban or prohibition is the simplest answer.

And I don't "make shit up"... that would be the people that believe "'gun free zones' aren't an issue", they are the ones "[making] shit up".

What's your stance in this issue again? Oh yeah... you are on the "'Gun free zones' aren't an issue" side.

Try again. And I am on the anti-bullshit side, not the anti-gun side. Done here- but make a stand- gun laws according to you should correlate exactly with mass shootings- so why do they not?

In fact nevermind- I guess I will just have to live with the easy murder beacons.   I think I lost a few IQ points even bothering with this.

Where did you get that? I never, ever said that. I never, ever even suggested that.

Who is the one making stuff up again?

I said they are a FACTOR. How can you miss the word FACTOR? Do you not understand the word FACTOR?

[frankq]

Jul 4, 2014 12:05:31 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

 

ktla.com/2014/04/07/lapd-officer-wounded-in-shooting-at-police-station/

      Los Angeles police officer was shot and wounded Monday when a man walked into the front lobby of the LAPD’s West Traffic Division and opened fire with a semi-automatic handgun.

www.cnn.com/2014/06/06/justice/georgia-courthouse-shooting/

     Dennis Marx wore body armor and a gas mask. He brandished an assault rifle, an assortment of grenades, "all kinds of ammunition" and even used his silver Nissan SUV as a weapon of sorts, according to authorities. The 48-year-old man toted his own water supply and flexible handcuffs, presumably to corral hostages once he got inside the north Georgia courthouse

Both within the last few months.  Point is 'gun free zones' are pretty much bullshit when it comes to targeting.

Still looking for all the mass shootings in police stations that you claim happen on a regular basis. One guy, one place. The FACT remains, mass shooters will pick soft targets. Your examples fail to bolster your argument. I commend you for actually trying though and providing some footnotes.

Both within the last few months. Point is 'gun free zones' are pretty much bullshit when it comes to targeting.

I'm pretty sure courthouses are "gun-free" zones so I don't know where your going here. Your argument that criminals somehow ignore the fact that their victims have no legal right to protect themselves when they select places to commit crimes is baseless. No amount of proof to will change your mind. You don't believe that people should be allowed to bear arms. Ok. We get it.

[EVT1]

OK- so a courthouse with armed officers in charge of security is still a 'gun free zone', schools that have police officers on duty are 'gun free zones'- is that it?  Anywhere that doesn't allow anyone unfettered gun carrying by anyone and everyone is a 'gun free zone'

And of course now you are back to painting me as not wanting people to be able to carry guns- which is of course wrong and you know it.  So I am done with you too on this- believe your little NRA fantasy if you want.

[Deleted]

"Gun free zones" attract more "bad guys" than non-"gun free zones". It's not NRA fantasy. It's a simple fact.

Ignore it if you like, but it's still a fact.

[frankq]

Jul 6, 2014 15:55:53 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

"Gun free zones" attract more "bad guys" than non-"gun free zones". It's not NRA fantasy. It's a simple fact.

Ignore it if you like, but it's still a fact.

Agreed. EVT doesn't like it when you challenge his dogma.

[frankq]

And of course now you are back to painting me as not wanting people to be able to carry guns- which is of course wrong and you know it.

No, I don't think you are being even close to accurate. You have a bad habit of changing your story when confronted with the facts. If this troubles you, stop spouting things that are nonsense and trying to pass them off as fact. You have said repeatedly that you support people using guns to defend the home. You have posted about people shooting off half their dicks. You have tried to tell us what we need and what we don't need. I don't think we've seen much about your support of concealed carry as opposed to open. Yeah, you support a right to bear, just not in public. That's fine. Just cut the bullshit and stop blatantly misstating the facts.

So I am done with you too on this- believe your little NRA fantasy if you want.

Still trying to figure out what the fantasy is......But I think the point has been made here. Sorry it didn't go your way.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

May 30, 2014 10:23:16 GMT -5 kent said:

You have GOT to be kidding me! 

In part from: www.today.com/news/theres-booze-gun-range-you-cannot-drink-while-shooting-says-2D79734056

There's a gun range scheduled to open this summer in Oklahoma City where customers can take two kinds of shots.

The restaurant at the Wiltshire Gun Range, the Range Cafe, has been granted a liquor license, but a co-owner says that bullets and booze will never mix.

"You cannot drink before shooting, you cannot drink while shooting and you cannot drink while you have a firearm on you,'' Jeff Swanson told Kerry Sanders on TODAY Friday. "Once people understand the safety protocols that we have in place, then right after that people kind of have an 'a-ha' moment and typically realize that this is going to be as safe as any retail establishment in the country."

The $6 million, 40,000 square-foot facility is expected to open this summer, pending approval from Oklahoma state officials.

I'm not seeing the problem here.  It's not like I've never gone from the shooting range to the bar (where I have to leave my gun in the car) before.  This is seems like a very earth-friendly, green establishment which will save the trip.