safeharbor37
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Post by safeharbor37 on Mar 1, 2011 22:35:59 GMT -5
The pack doesn't have to get the pack running. It only has to cut off the straggler from the pack. In some cases it's handy to get the pack running, but it usually isn't necessary. You could use some examples where the herd might turn on predators if they were stationary, but even then the trick is simply to isolate the prey from his defenses. ......................................... The above question. like the others, is simply a diversion since apparently you have nothing to offer on this subject.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Mar 1, 2011 22:38:47 GMT -5
...ahem... taste any soap lately... you should... ...and I already addressed why I picked a wolf as a quick alternate to an earlier introduced sheep analogy... so chillax, dude... ?? Soap? The sheep side of it is as ridiculous as the wolf side.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Mar 1, 2011 22:42:50 GMT -5
The pack doesn't have to get the pack running. It only has to cut off the straggler from the pack. In some cases it's handy to get the pack running, but it usually isn't necessary. You could use some examples where the herd might turn on predators if they were stationary, but even then the trick is simply to isolate the prey from his defenses. ......................................... The above question. like the others, is simply a diversion since apparently you have nothing to offer to this subject. The concept of liberals as sheep is an absurdity. Conservatives are victims of that which you refer to just as easily as liberals.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Mar 1, 2011 23:02:49 GMT -5
www.americanthinker.com/2010/07/liberal_bipolarity.html~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ We live in a temporary moment of liberal bipolarity, in which Teddy Roosevelt's trust-busting progressivism has run smack into Barack Obama's too-big-to-fail statism. Truthfully, the liberal vote has been cast for statist corporatism, and only the odd, dim, and sentimental liberal still thinks he supports the little guy.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Mar 1, 2011 23:06:00 GMT -5
www.americanthinker.com/2011/01/death_by_liberalism.html~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Many AT readers are aware that I have been working on a book project for the past several years. I have mentioned it occasionally on this site, more often in the past few weeks as publication drew nearer. Now zero hour has arrived: Death by Liberalism. The Fatal Outcome of Well-Meaning Liberal Policies is available as of today. (Buy it here.) It's the first publication from Broadside Books, renowned editor Adam Bellow's new conservative imprint. Simply put, DbL deals with the appalling and overlooked fact that liberalism kills. This is no metaphor, no exaggeration, and no mistake. Liberal policies put in place by liberal politicians to achieve liberal goals kill thousands of Americans each year. In the past half-century, liberalism may have killed up to 500,000 American citizens (and this is not even counting DDT or ethanol, which are responsible for a death rate orders of magnitude larger in the international sphere). We have known for years that liberalism is corrupt, wasteful, and futile. Now we know that it is even worse. Liberalism is lethal.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Mar 1, 2011 23:09:36 GMT -5
...both these articles, while blunt, are thought-provoking... imo...
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safeharbor37
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Post by safeharbor37 on Mar 1, 2011 23:13:16 GMT -5
There are limits to analogies. The actual analogy however is sheep as the followers of modern liberals. The modern liberals are [as well as conservatives], as you pointed out, the wolves who predate on the sheep. Conservatives, on the other hand, allow others to choose to be sheep or wolves of their own free will. Those who choose to act as sheep do about as well under liberal or conservative leadership, but those who seek to escape the sheep [or lemming] like existence have greater opportunity under conservative leadership. Perhaps it would be clearer if we say that conservatives encourage less sheep like behavior and more independent behavior than modern liberals. It appears that modern liberals tend to favor more uniformity, particularly uniformity of outcome while modern conservatives favor freedom of opportunity with the corresponding risks of unfavorable results. There are virtues and disadvantages to both, but for some reason, it seems that it's more difficult for liberals to articulate theirs. It leads to the conclusion that liberalism either doesn't have net virtues or that liberals don't know what they are. It makes dialog difficult.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Mar 1, 2011 23:14:29 GMT -5
<<< The concept of liberals as sheep is an absurdity. Conservatives are victims of that which you refer to just as easily as liberals. >>> ...but the concept of people as sheep is thousands of years old... so let's keep it, shall we?
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Mar 1, 2011 23:15:20 GMT -5
...ah... safe posted as I was typing...
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Mar 1, 2011 23:38:26 GMT -5
www.americanthinker.com/2010/07/liberal_bipolarity.html~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ We live in a temporary moment of liberal bipolarity, in which Teddy Roosevelt's trust-busting progressivism has run smack into Barack Obama's too-big-to-fail statism. Truthfully, the liberal vote has been cast for statist corporatism, and only the odd, dim, and sentimental liberal still thinks he supports the little guy. Corporate capitalism has certainly won the day at the expense of the individual. Liberal or conservative isn't very significant at this point.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Mar 1, 2011 23:41:59 GMT -5
...both these articles, while blunt, are thought-provoking... imo... I agree.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2011 23:46:49 GMT -5
karma for chillax. How cool is that?
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Mar 1, 2011 23:48:32 GMT -5
www.americanthinker.com/2011/01/death_by_liberalism.html~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Many AT readers are aware that I have been working on a book project for the past several years. I have mentioned it occasionally on this site, more often in the past few weeks as publication drew nearer. Now zero hour has arrived: Death by Liberalism. The Fatal Outcome of Well-Meaning Liberal Policies is available as of today. (Buy it here.) It's the first publication from Broadside Books, renowned editor Adam Bellow's new conservative imprint. Simply put, DbL deals with the appalling and overlooked fact that liberalism kills. This is no metaphor, no exaggeration, and no mistake. Liberal policies put in place by liberal politicians to achieve liberal goals kill thousands of Americans each year. In the past half-century, liberalism may have killed up to 500,000 American citizens (and this is not even counting DDT or ethanol, which are responsible for a death rate orders of magnitude larger in the international sphere). We have known for years that liberalism is corrupt, wasteful, and futile. Now we know that it is even worse. Liberalism is lethal. Across the country, children under the care of such agencies began dying. For thirty years and more, scarcely a week has gone by without yet another newspaper report of a child murdered while under the "protection" of one of these agencies. Public agencies, by virtue of being public agencies, have their failures displayed in public. Also the past thirty years has seen an explosion in national news coverage. Has the number of children dying increaed in the past thirty years? No way to be sure.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Mar 2, 2011 0:07:36 GMT -5
There are limits to analogies. The actual analogy however is sheep as the followers of modern liberals. The modern liberals are [as well as conservatives], as you pointed out, the wolves who predate on the sheep. Conservatives, on the other hand, allow others to choose to be sheep or wolves of their own free will. Those who choose to act as sheep do about as well under liberal or conservative leadership, but those who seek to escape the sheep [or lemming] like existence have greater opportunity under conservative leadership. Perhaps it would be clearer if we say that conservatives encourage less sheep like behavior and more independent behavior than modern liberals. It appears that modern liberals tend to favor more uniformity, particularly uniformity of outcome while modern conservatives favor freedom of opportunity with the corresponding risks of unfavorable results .... I would agree within the economic sphere and totally disagree within the social sphere.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Mar 2, 2011 0:33:58 GMT -5
<<< karma for chillax. >>>
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ungenteel
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Post by ungenteel on Mar 2, 2011 1:08:41 GMT -5
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Mar 2, 2011 9:40:46 GMT -5
Did you watch the video in reply #89 in which it talks about the wolf hunting strategy which is to get prey to run and then pounce on the old, sick, or merely unfortunate? I only see blank white squares in place of the you-tube videos....so no, I did not.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Mar 2, 2011 9:48:40 GMT -5
Did you watch the video in reply #89 in which it talks about the wolf hunting strategy which is to get prey to run and then pounce on the old, sick, or merely unfortunate? I only see blank white squares in place of the you-tube videos....so no, I did not. Here is the link: Question for all: Are people usually able to see youtube clips that are posted with this one being a rare exception for floridayankee? I ask because I could include the link itself as well as the clip.
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Mar 2, 2011 9:57:00 GMT -5
The concept of liberals as sheep is an absurdity.... I can agree with that part. IMHO, anybody that believes more government and/or more regulation is the answer to the current issues we face today are the sheep. Playing the race card in a thread that has nothing to do with race? Is the left really this desperate?
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Mar 2, 2011 10:00:27 GMT -5
Question for all: Are people usually able to see youtube clips that are posted with this one being a rare exception for floridayankee? I ask because I could include the link itself as well as the clip. Probably an exception...This Websense category is filtered.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Mar 2, 2011 10:37:35 GMT -5
The concept of liberals as sheep is an absurdity.... I can agree with that part. IMHO, anybody that believes more government and/or more regulation is the answer to the current issues we face today are the sheep. Playing the race card in a thread that has nothing to do with race? Is the left really this desperate? OFF TOPIC (again) floridayankee, In my opinion, the way that you structured reply #138 makes it look like I made the second comment as well as the first.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Mar 2, 2011 10:47:45 GMT -5
... IMHO, anybody that believes more government and/or more regulation is the answer to the current issues we face today are the sheep..... IM(not so)HO, how one comes to a belief or thought determines whether they are "sheep" or not. It isn't the belief or thought itself.
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Mar 2, 2011 10:54:55 GMT -5
OFF TOPIC (again) floridayankee, In my opinion, the way that you structured reply #138 makes it look like I made the second comment as well as the first. Sorry bills....The second quote doesn't show a name since I used the "quote" link above the reply box....but to end the confusion before it starts, please NOTE: Bills didn't make the second quote.
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Mar 2, 2011 11:00:16 GMT -5
IM(not so)HO, how one comes to a belief or thought determines whether they are "sheep" or not. It isn't the belief or thought itself. At times...yes. But, if you're going to spend hours analyzing an issue and, in the end, always fall in lockstep with the rest of the sheep, you're not only still a sheep, but you're a sheep that just wasted a lot of time getting to the same place as the rest of the herd.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Mar 2, 2011 11:03:40 GMT -5
OFF TOPIC (again) floridayankee, In my opinion, the way that you structured reply #138 makes it look like I made the second comment as well as the first. Sorry bills....The second quote doesn't show a name since I used the "quote" link above the reply box....but to end the confusion before it starts, please NOTE: Bills didn't make the second quote. Thanks for this. This board has great features but sometime they can create confusion. I have made note of how this looked when I was involved so I work to make sure I don't do it to others.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Mar 2, 2011 11:14:18 GMT -5
IM(not so)HO, how one comes to a belief or thought determines whether they are "sheep" or not. It isn't the belief or thought itself. At times...yes. But, if you're going to spend hours analyzing an issue and, in the end, always fall in lockstep with the rest of the sheep, you're not only still a sheep, but you're a sheep that just wasted a lot of time getting to the same place as the rest of the herd.I can agree with that part. IMHO, anybody that believes more government and/or more regulation is the answer to the current issues we face today are the sheep.How does this apply to one "flock" and not all others? If government is [glow=red,2,300]always[/glow] the answer or if government is [glow=blue,2,300]never[/glow] the answer, what is the difference?
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Mar 2, 2011 11:36:57 GMT -5
How does this apply to one "flock" and not all others? It doesn't. A herd is a herd. Even I end up in the same place as the normal "conservative herd"...but not always. If government is [glow=red,2,300]always[/glow] the answer or if government is [glow=blue,2,300]never[/glow] the answer, what is the difference? Never said government was never the answer. Common sense should dictate that there is never one answer that fits all...so government is not "always" the answer...of that I am certain.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Mar 2, 2011 11:45:23 GMT -5
<<< Common sense should dictate >>> ...imo, we hold very little in common nowadays... herein lies part of the dilemma...
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safeharbor37
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Post by safeharbor37 on Mar 2, 2011 19:29:29 GMT -5
One of the most definitive differences between modern liberals and conservatives is the view of from where governance should originate. It is similar to the difference between central planning and capitalism, but is not strictly economic. Conservatives generally believe that governance should originate and be applied as close to the people being governed as possible. Liberals, on the other hand, tend to favor the most centralized governance possible which results in governance being both originated and applied as far as possible from the people governed. The typical liberal argument is that centralized governance is necessary to guarantee equality. That local governance inevitably results in unequal application of law and unequal guarantees of rights. The conservative argument is that local governance provides protections tailored to the population being served rather than governance which treats everyone the same even though the needs are different. They believe that local governance can provide more individualized treatment ~ as opposed to standardized treatment. That is: Conservatives believe that allowing maximum opportunity is the critical factor while liberals believe that opportunity should be same for everyone regardless of individual differences. Conservatives believe in equality of opportunity while liberals believe in equality of results. Conservatives believe that local governance facilitates their goals while liberals believe that central governance facilitates their goals.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Mar 2, 2011 20:43:10 GMT -5
<<< The typical liberal argument is that centralized governance is necessary to guarantee equality. That local governance inevitably results in unequal application of law and unequal guarantees of right. The conservative argument is that local governance provides protections tailored to the population being served rather than governance which treats everyone the same even though the needs are different. They believe that local governance can provide more individualized treatment ~ as opposed to standardized treatment. >>> ...agreed...
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