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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2011 13:43:33 GMT -5
Interesting read, safe. So-- who do you consider real conservatives these days that could actually have a chance at getting elected? Like PI said above, I think there are a few that really can't get elected. Do you think people like Romney and Huckabee are real conservatives?
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 26, 2011 13:50:01 GMT -5
... Exactly what are they "giving away"?Bias. |
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Feb 26, 2011 14:02:07 GMT -5
...out of curiousity, bills... do you discount all information received if you dislike the source?  |
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Feb 26, 2011 14:02:08 GMT -5
They're giving away their credibility, as far as I'm concerned. Partial birth abortion is illegal.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Feb 26, 2011 14:07:53 GMT -5
...mmhmm, did you even read the thing? and if so, could you explain your position that they give away their credibility by stating, ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [Conservatives] Support legislation to prohibit partial birth abortions, called the "Partial Birth Abortion* Ban" (*Partial Birth Abortion: the killing of an unborn baby of at least 20 weeks by pulling it out of the birth canal with forceps, but leaving the head inside. An incision is made in the back of the baby's neck and the brain tissue is suctioned out. The head is then removed from the uterus.) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ...IOW, would it be better to read, the "termination" of "a fetus" of at least 20 weeks... ? ...and that would be more correct? ...fwiw, I think it is credible to use conservative terminology when discussing what conservatives support... |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2011 14:12:17 GMT -5
They don't do partial birth any more, from what I hear, but they still do late term-- all the way to term... fry them with chemicals in the womb and deliver them dead.. sometimes still alive. I've seen pics of these dead chemically burned babies, and it ain't pretty. Dead babies are dead babies, no matter which method you use to kill them.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Feb 26, 2011 14:16:12 GMT -5
...we can agree on that, krick... but in this case we have two posters who are refuting a source simply because it is using conservatives' views to describe what conservatives view... and thereby it has a bias... and therefore it is not credible... an interesting twist, huh? |
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 26, 2011 14:19:21 GMT -5
...out of curiousity, bills... do you discount all information received if you dislike the source? I am confused. I don't "like" nor do I "dislike" the source. I read the information and found that it was not a neutral source for young people (its target audience) attempting to understand the difference between liberal and conservative but well written propaganda subtly pushing a conservative agenda. While it would be easy to claim it was "quibbling" on other parts of it, the words that I highlighted can not legitimately be said to be other than the anti-abortion position. The rest of the information is written in a way that casts the conservative position in the best light while casting the liberal in ways less so. It is subtle but there. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2011 14:28:30 GMT -5
Wow-- that trailer in the article is powerful. I want to see that documentary. I love listening to black conservatives like Herman Kain talk. Everything they say is true, but Dems still have 90+% of the black vote.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 26, 2011 14:29:18 GMT -5
...we can agree on that, krick... but in this case we have two posters who are refuting a source simply because it is using conservatives' views to describe what conservatives view... and thereby it has a bias... and therefore it is not credible... an interesting twist, huh? I have no problem with how it uses "conservatives' views to describe what conservatives view". I have a problem with how it uses "conservatives' views to describe what (liberals) view" in a side by side comparison without indicating that they are biased. About Us
StudentNewsDaily.com is a non-profit current events website for high school students. Our goal is to build students' knowledge of current events and strengthen their critical thinking skills. This is done by providing comprehension and critical thinking questions along with published news articles and other current events items from established news organizations. We provide resources that will enable students to become informed viewers and readers of the news. www.studentnewsdaily.com/other/about-us/
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2011 14:32:38 GMT -5
Why would a conservative site not post conservative ideas? That would be like me going to huffpo or moveon.org looking for confirmation of conservative ideas. Of course that will not happen, because they are liberal. Would you call them biased also?
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Feb 26, 2011 14:36:22 GMT -5
...okay, you consider the source is biased... but you haven't shown that it is not credible... so, has this particular table from this particular source listed incorrect information? |
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Feb 26, 2011 14:38:06 GMT -5
Be glad to explain. Partial birth abortion is already illegal and almost anyone would support that illegality. It shouldn't even have been mentioned in this context. Ergo ... loss of credibility.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2011 14:39:07 GMT -5
LOL, bill!! Should the young radical left student groups advertise that they are biased toward radical progressive ideas in their publications, also? Isn't the idea to present your platform to all and hope some join you, rather than to run off half the people before you even open your mouth?? Let the young people hear, let them think and research, let them decide on their own. Another liberal idea is that the people are stupid and do not know what is best for them.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 26, 2011 14:43:00 GMT -5
LOL, bill!! Should the young radical left student groups advertise that they are biased toward radical progressive ideas in their publications, also? ... Yes. |
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Feb 26, 2011 14:45:13 GMT -5
<<< It shouldn't even have been mentioned in this context. Ergo ... loss of credibility. >>> ...again, is the information incorrect? if not, then it's credible... and it makes sense to mention it in this context because the context includes 13-18 year olds who may not recognize what the Partial Birth Abortion Ban legislation discussed when it made the nightly news since those newscasts aired past their bedtimes... |
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Feb 26, 2011 14:49:39 GMT -5
...mmhmm, did you even read the thing? and if so, could you explain your position that they give away their credibility by stating, ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [Conservatives] Support legislation to prohibit partial birth abortions, called the "Partial Birth Abortion* Ban" (*Partial Birth Abortion: the killing of an unborn baby of at least 20 weeks by pulling it out of the birth canal with forceps, but leaving the head inside. An incision is made in the back of the baby's neck and the brain tissue is suctioned out. The head is then removed from the uterus.) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ...IOW, would it be better to read, the "termination" of "a fetus" of at least 20 weeks... ? ...and that would be more correct? ...fwiw, I think it is credible to use conservative terminology when discussing what conservatives support... Yes, it would be better to refer to the termination of an embryo/fetus of over twenty weeks gestation. It would be better because it would be honest. What they decided to use instead is dishonest and put there strictly for the shock value. By doing this, they blew their ship right out of the water. It's really a shame. They've got some good points, but as bill said, they've ruined it through obvious bias. If they're going to teach, they shouldn't preach. The two are decidedly different. |
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Feb 26, 2011 14:51:28 GMT -5
No, been there, the information is not correct. It is not necessary to support legislation to eliminate partial birth abortion since partial birth abortion is already illegal and not performed. We don't need legislation to make something illegal ... illegal.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2011 14:56:47 GMT -5
It is fact that as recently as 2007 this was still being fought over in court, and it was libs defending it, and yes, hundreds of thousands of black babies have been aborted. Surely no one is suggesting young black people should not have full historical info?? Or is it better to just tell them what liberals want them to hear (think)?
Besides-- the killing is still going on, same stats, all the way up to term, just a different killing technique. Makes me ill to even think about it. And, yes-- liberals still support late term abortions.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 26, 2011 14:58:35 GMT -5
...okay, you consider the source is biased... So does krickett: Why would a conservative site not post conservative ideas? ... ...so, has this particular table from this particular source listed incorrect information? Higher taxes (primarily for the wealthy) and a larger government are necessary to address inequity/injustice in society (government should help the poor and needy using tax dollars from the rich). A progressive tax system provides funding in a way that those who benefit most from the country's economic system pay more for our government's necessary programs to assist in addressing the inherent inequities and injustices in American society. |
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Feb 26, 2011 14:59:59 GMT -5
...mmhmm, again, is the information correct? ...to say 'something, when not packaged well, is not well' is like saying that a person is lying because they said the grass is kelly green when the grass is actually another shade of green... |
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Feb 26, 2011 15:00:29 GMT -5
Since my paintbrush is rather narrow, I'll not discuss what most conservatives, or most liberals, think or support. I'm not privy to that information. I will, however, say I support late-term abortion only in cases where the mother's life is in imminent danger. I will further add that anyone I know, and I'm in the health care field, feels about it exactly as I do.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Feb 26, 2011 15:03:27 GMT -5
While I see your point of view, been there, if you're going to put a web page out there, the aim of which is said to be to educate young people on current affairs, you have the responsibility to ensure you have properly researched the material you offer. That, in this case, was not done and the result was a dishonest presentation of support for legislation for a matter that's already been legislated ... and found illegal. Yep. That sinks credibility. Don't set yourself up as a source for facts if you're going to publish gobbledygook.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 26, 2011 15:03:43 GMT -5
...mmhmm, again, is the information correct? ...to say 'something, when not packaged well, is not well' is like saying that a person is lying because they said the grass is kelly green when the grass is actually another shade of green... If they know that the grass is forest green and they say it kelly green, they are lying. If they say it is kelly green and it is forest green but they don't know the difference, they are wrong. The material at the site is packaged very very well. As I have stated, it is very well done propaganda. |
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Feb 26, 2011 15:04:24 GMT -5
<<< No, been there, the information is not correct. It is not necessary to support legislation to eliminate partial birth abortion since partial birth abortion is already illegal and not performed. We don't need legislation to make something illegal ... illegal. >>> ...this site references the fact that conservatives supported the legislation... and while you may find that support unnecessary, do you refute the fact that it occurred? why? |
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Feb 26, 2011 15:07:29 GMT -5
No, it does not state conservatives supported the legislation. It states they support the legislation. There is no such legislation on the docket at the present time, and they're well aware of that. Such has already been legislated and found illegal. They're well aware of that, too, I'm sure. This was included for shock value only. Sad, but obvious.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Feb 26, 2011 15:08:45 GMT -5
By the way, been there, most people I know supported that legislation ... regardless of political affiliation. Partial birth abortions were brutality. No excuse. None!
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Feb 26, 2011 15:09:13 GMT -5
...ahem... this is a thread discussing liberal vs. conservative thought... one man's wisdom is another man's gobbledegook... and, incidentally, I've never set myself up as a source for facts... but I do, in fact, reference facts... those facts, irrespective of their source, may sway my opinion... and my posts most definitely contain my opinions... |
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 26, 2011 15:14:52 GMT -5
...ahem... this is a thread discussing liberal vs. conservative thought... one man's wisdom is another man's gobbledegook... and, incidentally, I've never set myself up as a source for facts... but I do, in fact, reference facts... those facts, irrespective of their source, may sway my opinion... and my posts most definitely contain my opinions... You simply pointed out that you liked the little chart. I simply pointed out that it was propaganda. My reason for that was to make it clear it would be inappropriate to use it in this discussion. |
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Feb 26, 2011 15:19:57 GMT -5
By "you", been there, I was referring to those who set up the website from which the original material was taken. I wasn't referring to you, personally.
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