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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2014 13:20:02 GMT -5
I have posted in the past that I have a DS who has some mental health issues... And, who had a very hard time when his father died. He is now nearly 22 and has never had a paying job. Until recently his stance was that he would not get a job and would not get his license. And, that no one could make him.... (And, he is not eligible for military service, since I know someone will suggest that.) So, I started really limiting his life. I no longer buy anything for him other than housing and basic food. Anything else he mentions that he wants/needs is met with "get your license and get a job." Apparently it has finally worked because he is now begging me to fix the car so he can get his license, get a job, buy a car, and move out! YAY!!!!!!!! He should have is license in the next two weeks and will be hitting the pavement looking for a job. What should he tell potential employers about why he hasn't worked?
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on May 20, 2014 13:23:56 GMT -5
"Between being in school and actively helping my mother care for my dying father, I did not work for a while. That time is past and I'm ready to get to work now."
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on May 20, 2014 13:29:02 GMT -5
He should tell any potential employer that he had family issues to work through and is now able to work. I would not use mental health issues as an excuse.
Also, you know 22 and living off of momma/whatever with no job history whatsoever does not bode well for him at all. He's going to have to deal with his "stance" and recognize that being an adult means doing some things you don't want to, because you have to earn a living.
Good luck.
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2014 13:38:26 GMT -5
Yeah, he understands not to mention his mental health to an interviewer...
I completely understand the issue/barrier he will face in getting his first job. His goal at this point is a McJob to prove he can show up to work and do a good job to build a reference.
I have also been trying to get him to enroll in some sort of technical training, but I think he needs to work first and see how much fun that can be to get some motivation to get more training for a career.
If he can't find anything, he has a couple options for some manual type labor which could then give him a reference. It is an uphill battle, but I am REALLY thrilled that he is finally willing to do this. It has been a LONG battle with him.
Thankfully, I am now feeling really healthy and strong and I am not backing down on this at all. It's now or never. He goes and finds a job and learns to support himself. Period.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on May 20, 2014 13:43:48 GMT -5
I'm going to make a far out there suggestion, only you know your son well enough to know if it will work.
McJobs suck. I did large chain fast food for about, oh, one day before I quit. I would totally get why someone couldn't do that short or long term.
Is there a hospital nearby where he may be able to get a job as a (don't laugh - I've done it) dishwasher or food service prep? One guy I worked with took the free classes the hospital was always offering (diabetes management, wound care management, etc) and eventually went on to be a respiratory therapist. There is (IMHO) a lot of personal satisfaction in serving others in need. Even if he can only get in as a custodian it's still a foot in the door.
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greeniis10
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Post by greeniis10 on May 20, 2014 13:46:29 GMT -5
Glad to hear it! I think once he starts working, whatever the job may be, and he gets his first paycheck that feeling of accomplishment will motivate him. He's had some difficult things to deal with and 22 is still very young. Good for you for staying strong! He'll see how important that was later on as he matures.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on May 20, 2014 13:52:56 GMT -5
The first job is always the hardest to land. Once he has it and sticks with it for a while (even if he hates it), he will be "on his way" with a job history.
He should also enroll in the job search program at EDD. They often work with people who have circumstances that have made them struggle. Some EDD's even have job training programs.
Good luck to DS!
ETA: did DS enroll in a mental health program while he was in treatment, or did he just see a doctor privately? I'm only asking because some MH programs for young adults ("TAY" - transition age youth, in California defined at 16-25) also have job training programs. If he was not part of a program, would he consider contacting one now and ask for job assistance (given that his history would make him eligible)?
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on May 20, 2014 13:57:59 GMT -5
"Between being in school and actively helping my mother care for my dying father, I did not work for a while. That time is past and I'm ready to get to work now." Just start applying for anything and everything. And be ready for lots of no responses. Work with him on interview skills. I'm not saying that because of the mental health issues, but that is needed for a lot of young people. My DS19 has an awesome resume with school/activities, but he has problems communicating. It took him about 10 interviews before he got his first job (not counting working for DH). He is now looking for summer job, and it is tough. Good luck.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on May 20, 2014 14:24:57 GMT -5
I don't think there's much you can tell them. I would just not bring it up, and just have him present himself as this is his first job. I don't think employers will delve too much into the how's and why's if he just claims no job experience. If they ask, just give Kittensaver's response, but there's no reason to volunteer the information.
22 years old is a late bloomer to start looking for a job, but I wouldn't consider it totally outragous for a 22 year old to have never worked.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on May 20, 2014 14:29:51 GMT -5
He should tell any potential employer that he had family issues to work through and is now able to work. I would not use mental health issues as an excuse. Also, you know 22 and living off of momma/whatever with no job history whatsoever does not bode well for him at all. He's going to have to deal with his "stance" and recognize that being an adult means doing some things you don't want to, because you have to earn a living. Good luck. Yeah. Based on your descriptions of your son, he has a hard time with people with people in positions of authority and doesn't tolerate being made fun of very well. I think you'll need to do some coaching with him that your first job is going to suck. You're going to have to "pay your dues" and put up with some people being rude or mean to you. Sooner or later, your boss, your co workers, and especially if you work in customer service, customers, will be mean and you have to be professional.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on May 20, 2014 14:37:56 GMT -5
I was also going to suggest looking into vocational services for people with disabilities.
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Bob Ross
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Post by Bob Ross on May 20, 2014 14:57:44 GMT -5
He should tell them that he spent the last few years sexin' up the laydeez.
He should then extend his arm for a fist bump. If he's left hanging, it's probably not a good sign.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 20, 2014 17:21:15 GMT -5
I'd say for him to look in a kitchen washing dishes.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on May 20, 2014 20:38:12 GMT -5
Yeah, based on your description, I don't think a customer service type job would work out well for him. You have stated in the past he has had issues with bullies and controlling his temper. If you go into any job dealing with customers, you'll sooner or later find a asshole, and I'm concerned (again, based on your previous description) that he would not handle it well.
It would probably be worth exploring jobs that require a minimal amount of human interaction, like night time shelf stocker, doing dishes, warehouse or custodial work. Plus, I think those types of jobs are generally slower paced and might be less stressful for him. Working black Friday in retail would stress anyone out.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2014 0:36:04 GMT -5
I don't know the background, but would not recommend a McJob for someone who has people interaction skills issues.
Can you describe what his strengths are & what gives him particular problems (tasks or interactions)?
I have to say that low level office/hospital, production work or grocery store is far less stressful (mentally) than fast food places or retail. ff & retail treat you like stupid garbage, regardless of your ability (that is a sweeping generalization). If your son gets hostile towards critical people or is impatient it will be a recipe for disaster to put him in McJob.
Added: I agree with the comment that when asked what he's been doing since HS graduation he should answer: assisting my mother with care for my terminally ill father, who ultimately passed away.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2014 12:42:10 GMT -5
Lilly, he was bullied in school, suffers from depression/paranoia, and he is very, very reactive. He believes everyone is attacking him, even if you just simply ask him to do something. And, of course, he is at that age where he knows everything about everything... He "doesn't agree with 'doctor dope'" and will not take mental health medication, though it does help him. Mostly he prefers pot. Lots of pot... While I am sure he will be able to work for 8 hours without pot, I do know that trying to get him into a job that drug tests is just going to be impossible - until he decides he wants something more in his life than the limitations pot has. I would suggest labor to him, but he is lazy. We go out to work in the yard and my old woman self does more physical work than he does. He gets distracted, plays with the dog, wanders off, etc.... I don't really know what the answer is. He should have some sort of drug treatment and psych treatment. But, he is an adult so there is zero I can do about any of that. We took him all over creation as a kid but his opinion was always "I won't talk." And, for the most part, he didn't. Honestly, he is a nice guy with a big heart. He can cook and is looking towards that type of work, not so much customer facing. All I know is that I am very, very tired of living like I did with my late husband, and it isn't going to change until my son moves out. My son is very much like him and has many of the same behaviors and beliefs. The world is out to get him, he is cursed, everything is my fault and nothing is his, money and working are evil, etc..... He likes to "instruct" me on the "right" way of doing things... and on and on it goes. I am really tired of it and am no longer tolerating it, so it causes a lot of arguments. I told him again yesterday that I cannot change the past and I refuse to live there anymore. If he needs/wants to talk about my lack of parenting, his crappy childhood, his sexual abuse, his father issues, then he needs to find a qualified professional and leave me out of it. I just can't keep rehashing our lives every week with a diatribe of what I did that caused his life to suck.....
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swamp
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Post by swamp on May 21, 2014 12:52:51 GMT -5
Thankfully, I am now feeling really healthy and strong and I am not backing down on this at all. It's now or never. He goes and finds a job and learns to support himself. Period.
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on May 21, 2014 12:53:04 GMT -5
He's 22. An adult. At this point, I say you give him notice. He has 90 days to move out (or if you are feeling nice you could give him 6 months), or start paying rent and contributing to the household.
I'm all for supporting your kids, but if he's not working or in school then you shouldn't be supporting him. It's time he learned how to support himself, and if that means kicking him out well than so be it. Because if the current situation continues you will supporting him for the rest of your life.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on May 21, 2014 12:56:10 GMT -5
Lilly, he was bullied in school, suffers from depression/paranoia, and he is very, very reactive. He believes everyone is attacking him, even if you just simply ask him to do something. And, of course, he is at that age where he knows everything about everything... He "doesn't agree with 'doctor dope'" and will not take mental health medication, though it does help him. Mostly he prefers pot. Lots of pot...
I think this has been said before, but you do know that the last thing someone with a mental chemical imbalance should be doing is self-medicating with alcohol or recreational drugs, right? It's been known to increase feelings of anxiety and depression... Conversly it's also been known to treat depression, it all depends on the individual and should be monitored by a physician, just like any other drug. It could actually be making his symptoms worse.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2014 13:09:45 GMT -5
Lilly, he was bullied in school, suffers from depression/paranoia, and he is very, very reactive. He believes everyone is attacking him, even if you just simply ask him to do something. And, of course, he is at that age where he knows everything about everything... He "doesn't agree with 'doctor dope'" and will not take mental health medication, though it does help him. Mostly he prefers pot. Lots of pot...
I think this has been said before, but you do know that the last thing someone with a mental chemical imbalance should be doing is self-medicating with alcohol or recreational drugs, right? It's been known to increase feelings of anxiety and depression...Conversly it's also been known to treat depression, it all depends on the individual and should be monitored by a physician, just like any other drug. It could actually be making his symptoms worse. Of course. But, he is 21. I can't make him do anything at this point. When I tell him I want him to move out he tells me he will go live in the woods and when he has nothing to eat then he will just kill himself. To date he has refused to get his driver's license so he can get a job. Kinda hard to walk 30 miles to a job every day. But, then my car broke down and he has been stuck home for the last 4-5 months. Last year I stopped buying him anything other than basic food and a place to live. He is bored out of his mind and now sees that it just might be a smart move to get his license and a job while the car is working again. He is moving in the right direction, but it is just very, very slowly... He now says though that all he wants to do is get his license, get a job, save and move. I can only hope...... Argh...................
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on May 21, 2014 13:13:57 GMT -5
I think this has been said before, but you do know that the last thing someone with a mental chemical imbalance should be doing is self-medicating with alcohol or recreational drugs, right? It's been known to increase feelings of anxiety and depression...Conversly it's also been known to treat depression, it all depends on the individual and should be monitored by a physician, just like any other drug. It could actually be making his symptoms worse. Of course. But, he is 21. I can't make him do anything at this point. When I tell him I want him to move out he tells me he will go live in the woods and when he has nothing to eat then he will just kill himself.To date he has refused to get his driver's license so he can get a job. Kinda hard to walk 30 miles to a job every day. But, then my car broke down and he has been stuck home for the last 4-5 months. Last year I stopped buying him anything other than basic food and a place to live. He is bored out of his mind and now sees that it just might be a smart move to get his license and a job while the car is working again. He is moving in the right direction, but it is just very, very slowly... He now says though that all he wants to do is get his license, get a job, save and move. I can only hope...... Argh................... Sounds like he's trying to hold you emotionally hostage and is manipulaltive. Only you can decide how long you're willing to allow that. Again, good luck.
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greeniis10
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Post by greeniis10 on May 21, 2014 13:17:17 GMT -5
Ugh, the incessant blame-game is exhausting! I feel for you. Some people MUST blame others for their problems, and yes, your son (and all of you) have had it rough. I'm not dismissing that. But, I would try turning the conversation back to him: ok, sure, I/we are to blame for this or that, but what are YOU going to do about it now that you've found the source? Simply blaming someone else does not erase the effects. There's only so much you can do and I applaud you for being so tough!
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on May 21, 2014 13:23:11 GMT -5
I think this has been said before, but you do know that the last thing someone with a mental chemical imbalance should be doing is self-medicating with alcohol or recreational drugs, right? It's been known to increase feelings of anxiety and depression...Conversly it's also been known to treat depression, it all depends on the individual and should be monitored by a physician, just like any other drug. It could actually be making his symptoms worse. Of course. But, he is 21. I can't make him do anything at this point. When I tell him I want him to move out he tells me he will go live in the woods and when he has nothing to eat then he will just kill himself. To date he has refused to get his driver's license so he can get a job. Kinda hard to walk 30 miles to a job every day. But, then my car broke down and he has been stuck home for the last 4-5 months. Last year I stopped buying him anything other than basic food and a place to live. He is bored out of his mind and now sees that it just might be a smart move to get his license and a job while the car is working again. He is moving in the right direction, but it is just very, very slowly... He now says though that all he wants to do is get his license, get a job, save and move. I can only hope...... Argh................... Disagree that you can't make him do anything. I realize he has issues but he's long past being old enough to where if you put your foot down and gave him an ultimatum you can follow through with it. You seem like you've gradually made changes which are working but if he doesn't follow through you have to be ready to take the next step. If he doesn't want professional help (or medication) you can't force him to go but at the same time that doesn't mean you have to support him. I know someone in a similar situation who is 32, just lost his job and continues to survive off of his parents because despite knowing he needs professional help they still put a roof over his head and foot in his stomach. He isn't going to get help or change until they finally force him to by way of giving him a move out date and saying he's cut off. Edit - I'm curious how if you only provide a roof and food he affords or finds a way to smoke pot all day.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2014 13:28:23 GMT -5
Ugh, the incessant blame-game is exhausting! I feel for you. Some people MUST blame others for their problems, and yes, your son (and all of you) have had it rough. I'm not dismissing that. But, I would try turning the conversation back to him: ok, sure, I/we are to blame for this or that, but what are YOU going to do about it now that you've found the source? Simply blaming someone else does not erase the effects. There's only so much you can do and I applaud you for being so tough! Thanks, it is a battle. A battle I am really tired of fighting. My late husband died at 52 still blaming his step-father for his life... After reading "Codependent No More" I started asking my son what HE was going to do to solve HIS problems? And, I keep repeating to him that I am not going to take on his mental baggage as my own. I can't. I don't have the mental energy for it anymore. When he starts in that he needs X, Y or Z, I simply tell him to get a job and buy it. When he tells me his life sucks and it is my fault, then I tell him to find a councilor to understand why HE feels that way. I am fine with my past and can't change anything at this point, so I am not going to expend my current energy on it. Honestly, I am just in this mental place where I am not going to deal with his crap anymore. Not happy - there is the door? Change your situation? Grow-up? Suck it up? At this point he needs his license and a job. His license test will be next week after I get the tires for my car. I fixed the coolant issue. Then he needs to spend 40 hours a week looking for a job. I have also suggested to him that he look into a local hotel in the maintenance dept. He is handy and that would be a good job where he wouldn't be constantly told what to do, how to do it, when he can pee, etc.... I agree that fast food is going to be a problem. Then again, he has a group of friends who work at the local McDs and can maybe get him a job. While I understand my approach to this has been a bit passive-agreesive, it does seem to be working. I am glad he wants to move on with his life, just not so sure how that is going to work in reality...
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justme
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Post by justme on May 21, 2014 13:31:15 GMT -5
Of course. But, he is 21. I can't make him do anything at this point. When I tell him I want him to move out he tells me he will go live in the woods and when he has nothing to eat then he will just kill himself. To date he has refused to get his driver's license so he can get a job. Kinda hard to walk 30 miles to a job every day. But, then my car broke down and he has been stuck home for the last 4-5 months. Last year I stopped buying him anything other than basic food and a place to live. He is bored out of his mind and now sees that it just might be a smart move to get his license and a job while the car is working again. He is moving in the right direction, but it is just very, very slowly... He now says though that all he wants to do is get his license, get a job, save and move. I can only hope...... Argh................... Disagree that you can't make him do anything. I realize he has issues but he's long past being old enough to where if you put your foot down and gave him an ultimatum you can follow through with it. You seem like you've gradually made changes which are working but if he doesn't follow through you have to be ready to take the next step. If he doesn't want professional help (or medication) you can't force him to go but at the same time that doesn't mean you have to support him. I know someone in a similar situation who is 32, just lost his job and continues to survive off of his parents because despite knowing he needs professional help they still put a roof over his head and foot in his stomach. He isn't going to get help or change until they finally force him to by way of giving him a move out date and saying he's cut off. Edit - I'm curious how if you only provide a roof and food he affords or finds a way to smoke pot all day. They have a couple plants they grow.
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on May 21, 2014 13:33:24 GMT -5
I hope one of them has the card which allows them to grow. I live in CA as well and they're very lenient compared to when I was partying back in college but growing is a risk without the card.
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bobosensei
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Post by bobosensei on May 21, 2014 13:50:09 GMT -5
What is going to happen to him when you die? I'm not asking this to be hurtful, but to give you something to think about. My mom enabled my mentally ill, drug addicted brother for years and years. She's been dead for 2.5 years and my sisters and I let him hit rock bottom. He finally went to drug treatment, and who knows if it will work. At least now he knows that there is no one to bail him out. I wish the best for my brother and would like to think that one day we will have a relationship, but my mom's years and years of babying my brother and making excuses for him hurt him more than any of the empty threats he made ever would have.
My brother is 30 and it would have been a lot easier for him to learn this lesson at 22, and his life now would be so much better.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2014 14:23:26 GMT -5
Call me a cynic, but I might say his ambition is more about getting a car and a license than getting a job. But good luck. I do hope for the best for you.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on May 21, 2014 14:32:16 GMT -5
What is going to happen to him when you die? I'm not asking this to be hurtful, but to give you something to think about. My mom enabled my mentally ill, drug addicted brother for years and years. She's been dead for 2.5 years and my sisters and I let him hit rock bottom. He finally went to drug treatment, and who knows if it will work. At least now he knows that there is no one to bail him out. I wish the best for my brother and would like to think that one day we will have a relationship, but my mom's years and years of babying my brother and making excuses for him hurt him more than any of the empty threats he made ever would have.
My brother is 30 and it would have been a lot easier for him to learn this lesson at 22, and his life now would be so much better. Sooooooooooooo much this ^^^^^^ My mother is almost 91 and is still slipping $$$ to my deadbeat brother (age 60!) who whines to her about his multiple disabilities and his crappy life (caused by his years of substance abuse). Then she turns around and whines to me about how she doesn't have enough money at the end of the month to buy groceries. *SMH*. I repeatedly remind her that with his TWO disability checks and his disabled Section 8 voucher he has a roof over his head, a bed to sleep in, food on the table and clothes for his body - - but clearly that is not "good enough." He is in for a shock when she passes on, because she is living on a fixed income in a house with a reverse mortgage. There will be NOTHING for him (or any of us kids) when she goes - only bills to pay. Thank goodness my other older DB is her executor, not me . You (the Big You) think that as a parent you are continually trying to "help" your child get straight and make something of themselves, but after the age of 25 or so, all you're (again, the Big You) doing is inadvertently crippling them for how to cope with life. It is a really sad situation.
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milee
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Post by milee on May 21, 2014 14:37:32 GMT -5
What is going to happen to him when you die? I'm not asking this to be hurtful, but to give you something to think about. My mom enabled my mentally ill, drug addicted brother for years and years. She's been dead for 2.5 years and my sisters and I let him hit rock bottom. He finally went to drug treatment, and who knows if it will work. At least now he knows that there is no one to bail him out. I wish the best for my brother and would like to think that one day we will have a relationship, but my mom's years and years of babying my brother and making excuses for him hurt him more than any of the empty threats he made ever would have.
My brother is 30 and it would have been a lot easier for him to learn this lesson at 22, and his life now would be so much better. Sooooooooooooo much this ^^^^^^ My mother is almost 91 and is still slipping $$$ to my deadbeat brother who whines to her about his multiple disabilities and his crappy life (caused by his years of substance abuse). Then she turns around and whines to me about how she doesn't have enough money at the end of the month to buy groceries. *SMH*. I repeatedly remind her that with his TWO disability checks and his disabled Section 8 voucher he has a roof over his head, a bed to sleep in, food on the table and clothes for his body - - but clearly that is not "good enough." He is in for a shock when she passes on, because she is living on a fixed income in a house with a reverse mortgage. There will be NOTHING for him (or any of us kids) when she goes - only bills to pay. Thank goodness older DB is her executor, not me . You (the Big You) think that as a parent you are continually trying to "help" your child get straight and make something of themselves, but after the age of 25 or so, all you're (again, the Big You) is doing is inadvertently crippling them for how to cope with life. It is a really sad situation. Of all my siblings, I'm unfortunately the most responsible with money. So my dad asked me to be executor of his will and to take on some trusts he wanted to set up. When I reviewed what the documents said, they were basically asking me to step into the role of official perpetual enabler for my addicted siblings. Dad's been slipping them cash and bailing them out their entire lives, which is what created the mess. Now he realizes he can't leave them a large chunk of money because the addicts would OD almost immediately, so he wants somebody to continue to dole out cash and bail them out as needed until the money is gone.
No thanks. I said no. Give them the money in a wad and let them OD, give it all to charity to keep them safe, spend it before he dies - whatever. It's all good as long as I don't have to take over as Chief Enabler.
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