Found out something interesting...

[zibazinski]

Which is why it still triggers me when some posters say they'd support their parents if their parents needed it and think those that won't are assholes.

[Deleted]

For what it's worth...my parents got divorced when I was five.  The next time I saw my father was when I went to his funeral when I was 26.  Growing up my mother never talked about him at all.  I never knew that he remarried, had other kids, and had built an entirely new life. I didn't (and don't) hate him.  He was just never a consideration in my life.
But I will share this.  Growing up people would ask me what it was like growing up without a father and I would tell them it was just like having one; no difference.  But the fact was I did not know the difference.  Not until I was a father myself and finally understood that I didn't have to learn every single thing on my own; that there could have been someone there to help me through a lot of it.
But all in all I had a good childhood; he was just never a part of it.
So my advice would be to tell him if he asks but to leave it alone otherwise.

[swamp]

May 18, 2014 23:35:58 GMT -5 milee said:

May 18, 2014 23:25:00 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

Milee, I am so sorry!

Now, I know this is OT - but I am curious (as I have been very curious in the whole nature vs nurture thing ever since I had kids - milee -how do you explain that you are the only one who "turned out" so well?

I don't know that I necessarily turned out super well. I'm an average parent and wife and even that requires a huge amount of effort on my part, but I consider that average status hard-won and am happy with it. One of my sisters is probably more financially successful than I am. Another is a more caring mom but pretty tough on her DH.

Of the six, I have spent the most time looking at how we grew up, figuring out what my strengths and weaknesses were/are, deciding how I want to live and making very large moves to get there.  One positive thing I got out of a tough childhood was becoming very tough myself, so I've used that to do the hard things or hard work that it's taken to make big changes.   But I still do some really dumb things - like try to have a relationship with my dad.

So I hope the OP isn't too hard on her son if he still sometimes wants a relationship with the dad, even though they both know what a jerk the dad is. 

But you were able to step outside your situation and see there was a problem. 

There are some people who grow up in complete dysfunction but don't realize how dysfunctional it really is.  Or they do realize it, but they can't seem to get the coping skills/introspection/ability to plan to make the changes necessary.

Kudos to you milee for pulling it together and doing well.

[zibazinski]

May 19, 2014 10:06:05 GMT -5 swamp said:

May 18, 2014 23:35:58 GMT -5 milee said:

I don't know that I necessarily turned out super well. I'm an average parent and wife and even that requires a huge amount of effort on my part, but I consider that average status hard-won and am happy with it. One of my sisters is probably more financially successful than I am. Another is a more caring mom but pretty tough on her DH.

Of the six, I have spent the most time looking at how we grew up, figuring out what my strengths and weaknesses were/are, deciding how I want to live and making very large moves to get there.  One positive thing I got out of a tough childhood was becoming very tough myself, so I've used that to do the hard things or hard work that it's taken to make big changes.   But I still do some really dumb things - like try to have a relationship with my dad.

So I hope the OP isn't too hard on her son if he still sometimes wants a relationship with the dad, even though they both know what a jerk the dad is. 

But you were able to step outside your situation and see there was a problem. 

There are some people who grow up in complete dysfunction but don't realize how dysfunctional it really is.  Or they do realize it, but they can't seem to get the coping skills/introspection/ability to plan to make the changes necessary.

Kudos to you milee for pulling it together and doing well.

It's very hard to do and most don't accomplish it. Even my EX who knew his family and upbringing was awful, couldn't totally escape its hold and it spilled into our lives.

[milee]

May 19, 2014 10:06:05 GMT -5 swamp said:

May 18, 2014 23:35:58 GMT -5 milee said:

I don't know that I necessarily turned out super well. I'm an average parent and wife and even that requires a huge amount of effort on my part, but I consider that average status hard-won and am happy with it. One of my sisters is probably more financially successful than I am. Another is a more caring mom but pretty tough on her DH.

Of the six, I have spent the most time looking at how we grew up, figuring out what my strengths and weaknesses were/are, deciding how I want to live and making very large moves to get there.  One positive thing I got out of a tough childhood was becoming very tough myself, so I've used that to do the hard things or hard work that it's taken to make big changes.   But I still do some really dumb things - like try to have a relationship with my dad.

So I hope the OP isn't too hard on her son if he still sometimes wants a relationship with the dad, even though they both know what a jerk the dad is. 

But you were able to step outside your situation and see there was a problem. 

There are some people who grow up in complete dysfunction but don't realize how dysfunctional it really is.  Or they do realize it, but they can't seem to get the coping skills/introspection/ability to plan to make the changes necessary.

Kudos to you milee for pulling it together and doing well.

Thanks for the kind words.  But a lot of this is done for selfish reasons as well.  I really, really, really want to be a good mom and wife.  I want my kids to feel loved and happy.  I want them to have the complaints that normal, well-adjusted kids have - like their mom giving them a bad haircut when they were little or not letting them stay out too late for a party in high school.  I want them to have tons of options and happy lives.  I want them to want to visit me when I'm old. 

And unless I do a much better job than what I was taught and know, none of those things will happen.  So it's obvious to me that repeating the dysfunction or allowing myself to be awful even because I don't know anything else is just not an option.

And Apple, I can't imagine how painful it must be for you as a good mom to see your jerky X putting your son through this.  Know that you're a good mom and no matter how jerky the X is, that with your good mom skills, your son still has a good life and can be OK.  It hurts but it will be OK in part because of your hard work.  Thanks for being such a good mom.   

[Miss Tequila]

May 19, 2014 9:19:42 GMT -5 hkguy said:

For what it's worth...my parents got divorced when I was five.  The next time I saw my father was when I went to his funeral when I was 26.  Growing up my mother never talked about him at all.  I never knew that he remarried, had other kids, and had built an entirely new life. I didn't (and don't) hate him.  He was just never a consideration in my life.
But I will share this.  Growing up people would ask me what it was like growing up without a father and I would tell them it was just like having one; no difference.  But the fact was I did not know the difference.  Not until I was a father myself and finally understood that I didn't have to learn every single thing on my own; that there could have been someone there to help me through a lot of it.
But all in all I had a good childhood; he was just never a part of it.
So my advice would be to tell him if he asks but to leave it alone otherwise.

This just makes me so sad.  My husband's father died when he was two so he only knows growing up without a father but it wasn't his dad's choice to leave him.  As a parent I honestly can't imagine walking out on my children and just never seeing them again.  I don't know how to reconcile the love for my kids with another parent who can just leave.

I think it speaks volumes of your character that you attended your dad's funeral...I'm not sure that I would have. 

[sheilaincali]

My best friend's parents divorced when she was pretty young- like 7 I think.

She very, very rarely saw her dad after that. Her paternal grandma lived across the street from my BFF and her mom. Her mom and the XMIL had a great relationship. Tiny town of like 500 people. Mom would pick XMIL up for Church every Sunday and drive her to church. BFF spent a ton of time at her grandparents house.  Her dad would call the house and if she was there he wouldn't show up or would tell his mom to send my BFF home so he could stop by.

She went years without seeing him. He showed up at her college (5 hours away) her freshman year with a stack of papers and announced the he disagreed with the divorce decree and had dropped her from his insurance.  That was the end of that conversation. Several years later his new wife (he didn't tell his mom or anyone else that he had married) showed up in my friend's checkout line (she worked at Target) and announced she was her new step mother. My friend replied "that's impossible because as far as I'm concerned I have no father".

When grandma had a stroke and was dying he barred my friend from the hospital and wouldn't let her in to see her. Fortunately (small town again) the nurse would call whenever he and his brother were going to be gone for a while so my friend could sneak in to see her grandma. At the funeral he treated her like shit and told her she wasn't allowed to go to the grave side portion of the service.

Her mom has never said a bad thing about her EX. The EX has proven time and again who he really is.

As for telling you son about his bio-dad's new wife. Only you know the situation. I don't ever lie to my kid but I don't know that I'd tell him unless the conversation came up and he asked.  Why cause him unnecessary hurt?

[taz157]

May 19, 2014 7:42:50 GMT -5 mollyanna58 said:

May 18, 2014 22:56:36 GMT -5 @bunnysmom said:

Milee, i am so sorry you had to put up with those ignorant comments from your own father. This just shows some people are not meant to be parents. (Of course i am glad he was one so we could have you here).

I think his dating screen name would put off more women than it would attract.

Yeah that to both posts!

[Deleted]

My Dad was an absent parent. I saw him occasionally when I was very young. I grew up knowing he had a family he lived with and sometimes I would be jealous that my half-sisters had him there with them and my brother and I didn't.

I don't remember how it came about, but when I was 14 I had a phone conversation with him and basically told him that I was fed up with him disappointing me. After that, I was done with him. At some point he married the woman he'd been living with. My Mom must have told me, because I had no interest in talking to him.

When I got married at 19 in my Mom's backyard, he came over and got the yard ready for the wedding. My Mom must've asked him to, I still had no use for him.

I didn't see him again until my late 20's. My brother had been bugging me to take him to his house and I finally took him. First time I'd ever even seen where he lived. That visit didn't go so well, I ended up cussing him out because my brother got upset because he was nonchalant about it when my brother was asking him why he didn't come see him when he was a kid.

That was the last time I saw him alive or spoke to him. He died 6 or 7 years later. He'd been reaching out to me after I'd cussed him out, but I refused to even consider talking to him.

When he died, I was very confused. I realized I was still angry with him and didn't know what I was supposed to do with it anymore. He wasn't suppose to die while I was still angry. It wasn't until then that my Mom told me how he'd talked to her several times about how he regretted abandoning his children and how he wished I would talk to him. I don't know if I would've cooperated if I'd known he had regrets. He and my brother had started talking not too long after the bad visit. My Mom knew he was sick but he didn't want her to tell me. I don't know if I would've talked to him if I'd known that, either. Maybe.

My brother and I went to the funeral. My Mom went too, but she stayed in the background. It was the first time that my brother and I were publicly acknowledged as his children. Sad that it never happened while he was alive, but I give his wife and my half-sisters credit for not trying to hide who we were and being gracious about it.

The moral of the story is that although they usually don't, people can change. If they don't, screw 'em. I believe now that my dad had changed and I know by her behavior after he died that his wife had.

[Miss Tequila]

May 19, 2014 10:52:29 GMT -5 sheilaincali said:

My best friend's parents divorced when she was pretty young- like 7 I think.

She very, very rarely saw her dad after that. Her paternal grandma lived across the street from my BFF and her mom. Her mom and the XMIL had a great relationship. Tiny town of like 500 people. Mom would pick XMIL up for Church every Sunday and drive her to church. BFF spent a ton of time at her grandparents house.  Her dad would call the house and if she was there he wouldn't show up or would tell his mom to send my BFF home so he could stop by.

She went years without seeing him. He showed up at her college (5 hours away) her freshman year with a stack of papers and announced the he disagreed with the divorce decree and had dropped her from his insurance.  That was the end of that conversation. Several years later his new wife (he didn't tell his mom or anyone else that he had married) showed up in my friend's checkout line (she worked at Target) and announced she was her new step mother. My friend replied "that's impossible because as far as I'm concerned I have no father".

When grandma had a stroke and was dying he barred my friend from the hospital and wouldn't let her in to see her. Fortunately (small town again) the nurse would call whenever he and his brother were going to be gone for a while so my friend could sneak in to see her grandma. At the funeral he treated her like shit and told her she wasn't allowed to go to the grave side portion of the service.

Her mom has never said a bad thing about her EX. The EX has proven time and again who he really is.

As for telling you son about his bio-dad's new wife. Only you know the situation. I don't ever lie to my kid but I don't know that I'd tell him unless the conversation came up and he asked.  Why cause him unnecessary hurt?

What the hell is wrong with people? I get never wanting to see your ex again, but your own flesh and blood? Stories like this just break my heart.

My parents divorced when I was 9 and my dad made it clear from that day that he was my dad first and foremost. While I would have preferred my parents remained married ( most kids do) I can honestly say that I never felt like my dad out me behind as he started his new life. I have no use for any man that can just walk away from their child. If I were dating and found out the guy had no contact with his children that would be the end if that relationship. That tells me the kind of man he really is

[zibazinski]

Which is the main reason I stopped dating that guy who basically sent a check and left his kid alone. Yes, her mom made it hard on him but so what? That was his daughter, end of story. Made me realize that if things got tough between us, he'd bail on me as well.

[The Captain]

And  now for the other side of the father coin.

We have a very close family friend who is basically bankrupting himself fighting tooth and nail to do right by his kids. It's been a long painful drawn out process for over 7 years now.  Recently his ex lost her job so the judge ordered him to put the kids 100% on his insurance (out of state, out of network 100%).  Ok, fine - no problem.  Oh, and he's still paying full child support plus ALL medical co-pays and deductibles.

But now the ex has no skin in the medical expense game and only takes the kids to urgent care, all of the time.  My friend has the EOB's to prove it and has to go back to court (again) to get the mother to find a primary care pediatrician for the kids and try to get her to be reasonable with the medical expenses.  Oh, and since she doesn't have a job she can't afford the gas to drive the kids half-way for visitation - so the friend has to shell out for all of the gas picking up and dropping of the kids.

The guy has had to take a second job to pay the legal and medical bills.  Yet his ex can't even seem to work one job and is basically living off the (pretty generous IMHO) child support.  

Yet she constantly does every thing she can to mess up visitation and schedules the kids activities for when they are supposed to be with their father, making him the "bad" guy for making them miss team sports, etc.  I can only hope they will look back with adult eyes and see things a bit more clearly.

[zibazinski]

He needs to go back to court. 

[The Captain]

He is.  Problem is he doesn't know how to cry in court on demand (his sister has witnessed it and told us what she's seen).  The judge seems to have a thing against him.

His ex's boyfriend has a very well known and expensive lawyer and had basically told my friend he will bankrupt him before he let's him get the kids full time or even half time.  And that is exactly what is happening.  The Ex's boyfriend had more money then the friend so guess who's winning in court.

He had to drive close to 500 miles for every court or mediation hearing.  The ex's lawyer likes to play the last minute "we have to reschedule game  , I seriously don't know how the judge allows it to go on like this.

[zibazinski]

Unlike some lawyers, I don't have a good opinion of judges. They seem to bring their personal issues and biases into the court instead of doing what's right or even the law.

[whoisjohngalt]

milee - I can only judge by your posts and some conversations that we had, but I think you are an amazing mom.  You don't talk much about your husband, but I am going to assume you are an "OK" wife too     You are one of the few posters that I would love to know and be friends with IRL. 


On a separate note - I've always had a belief that family is family and you help whenever they need help, you help no matter what.  Reading this board for the past 10 yrs makes me realize that I've been living in a huge bubble, bc stories that you have shared have never been part of my reality.  Not even close

So, I am so truly sorry for any and all pain that any of you have gone due to rotten family members.  My heart breaks for you.

[whoisjohngalt]

May 19, 2014 7:47:12 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Which is why it still triggers me when some posters say they'd support their parents if their parents needed it and think those that won't are assholes.

That's me.  I could never understand how anyone could turn their back on their parents (although I didn't consider those who do assholes) but now I know better.  I was definitely wrong.

[zibazinski]

Thank you. It was very hard for me and I think maybe for some other posters to get reamed about "not forgiving" when the abuse was so horrendous that in a civilized society, we should have been removed from the home.

[Deleted]

May 19, 2014 10:31:10 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

May 19, 2014 9:19:42 GMT -5 hkguy said:

For what it's worth...my parents got divorced when I was five.  The next time I saw my father was when I went to his funeral when I was 26.  Growing up my mother never talked about him at all.  I never knew that he remarried, had other kids, and had built an entirely new life. I didn't (and don't) hate him.  He was just never a consideration in my life.
But I will share this.  Growing up people would ask me what it was like growing up without a father and I would tell them it was just like having one; no difference.  But the fact was I did not know the difference.  Not until I was a father myself and finally understood that I didn't have to learn every single thing on my own; that there could have been someone there to help me through a lot of it.
But all in all I had a good childhood; he was just never a part of it.
So my advice would be to tell him if he asks but to leave it alone otherwise.

This just makes me so sad.  My husband's father died when he was two so he only knows growing up without a father but it wasn't his dad's choice to leave him.  As a parent I honestly can't imagine walking out on my children and just never seeing them again.  I don't know how to reconcile the love for my kids with another parent who can just leave.

I think it speaks volumes of your character that you attended your dad's funeral...I'm not sure that I would have. 

My mother called me and said one of the six children should be there.  She picked me.

[Wisconsin Beth]

May 19, 2014 18:56:30 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Which is the main reason I stopped dating that guy who basically sent a check and left his kid alone. Yes, her mom made it hard on him but so what? That was his daughter, end of story. Made me realize that if things got tough between us, he'd bail on me as well.

Yeah, that was my rule when dating too.  He needed to be present in any kids' lives.  However, I only dated 1 man with kids.  He had custody of 3 teenage girls!  That kinda scared me off.  And there was no zing either. 

[milee]

May 19, 2014 23:10:24 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

milee - I can only judge by your posts and some conversations that we had, but I think you are an amazing mom.  You don't talk much about your husband, but I am going to assume you are an "OK" wife too     You are one of the few posters that I would love to know and be friends with IRL. 

Thanks for the kind words. 

[Miss Tequila]

May 20, 2014 14:32:51 GMT -5 hkguy said:

May 19, 2014 10:31:10 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

This just makes me so sad.  My husband's father died when he was two so he only knows growing up without a father but it wasn't his dad's choice to leave him.  As a parent I honestly can't imagine walking out on my children and just never seeing them again.  I don't know how to reconcile the love for my kids with another parent who can just leave.

I think it speaks volumes of your character that you attended your dad's funeral...I'm not sure that I would have. 

My mother called me and said one of the six children should be there.  She picked me.

But you still went...that seriously speaks volumes about you

[taz157]

My FIL's father walked out on his family when my FIL was 8. My FIL is now 78 and 2nd youngest. My FIL has 7 brothers and sisters. When his dad died several years ago, all the siblings went to the funeral. I don't think my FIL spoke to him after he walked out even though a few siblings did.