Frugal Nurse
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Post by Frugal Nurse on Feb 25, 2011 16:33:45 GMT -5
When my DOD came to visit a few years ago, he gave money to the guy whose sign said "Let's be honest, I want a beer" As for the "the walker could be a prop" and "they could jerk the car door open" folks, do you really live your lives in that much fear? Or is it just fear of the other? I mean, do you look at the folks on the street with suits on, or even jeans and t-shirt and think to yourself "Better not talk to that guy, he might try and rob me"? Or when you're stopped at a stop light, and a pedestrian cuts the from the sidewalk to the crosswalk coming right next to your car, do you think "I'd better lock the doors, he could jerk my car door open"? In either case, is it different if the person is male and black? Honestly. How do you live with such constant fear? Maybe because some of my friends lived on the streets for a while, or maybe just because I've made a conscious decision not to live my life in fear, I just can't imagine not stopping to talk to someone, to treat them like a human being, because "the walker might be a prop". Yes, many of the people who are homeless have mental illnesses, but the odds of one of them being a danger to you is not any greater than that of any other person on the street. Homeless people are still people. I'm not saying you have to give money to them, or food, or clothing or anything else. Do whatever you're comfortable with. I'm just asking that you take a moment to examine your own prejudices, and don't try to convice me that I'm placing myself in danger by talking to a homeless person, or passing them a dollar from my car window. Karma to you for remembering that people are people, not matter what bad circumstances or poor choices they've made has done to their lives.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2011 16:34:17 GMT -5
Please don't give homeless people money. You're not helping them. You are just making yourself feel better thinking that you've helped. If you feel compelled to give them something, give them food. That's what DF and I do, and about half the time they don't even want it...that says a lot. Just last weekend, DF and I were walking down a busy street after dinner and there was a homeless guy asking for money; my DF handed him our to-go bag from the hot meal we had just eaten. As we walked away, I watched as he opened the bag, scoffed, and threw it out in the street. 90% of the time they aren't collecting money to buy food. They can get food for free at the shelter or other places. By giving them money, you're just helping them buy their next high. You're just an enabler. Yes, it's harsh, but let's be honest with ourselves. (I know this isn't ALWAYS the case, but unfortunately it generally is). Aren't we high and mighty up on our pedestal... I'll give $1 or 2 if I'm at a red light and the person is close. I will roll my window down just enough to slip the money out (maybe an inch), just to be safe. I figure, you know, i won't starve without that $1, but that person might. And if they just use it to get high? well, I'll never know, and it won't hurt me anyway. People who want to use drugs or abuse alcohol will with or without my $1. Anyhow, I don't think it is right to tell others who and how we should give. If you don't want to give your $1, that's fine, but don't act like I'm creating drug addicts just because I give my dollar. P.S. Gasp! The homeless guy didn't want your half-eaten leftovers? how dare they! Don't they know that since you have money and can afford food, you are better than them, and your half eaten leftovers are better than gold. Sheesh! (I'd have been insulted if someone gave me half eaten leftovers). That's fine. And you're right, if you want to give a few bucks to a homeless person and you think it's helping, by all means do it. I'm not trying to be high and mighty, just share my opinion. From my experience living in a major city, I just don't think giving them money is beneficial. It may make you feel better about yourself, but I truly don't think tossing them a couple bucks is helping...it just gives them more reason to stay on the street corner and continue begging others for money. If you want to help, admit them to a shelter, talk to them, give them food, lead them somewhere where they can get real help...these things are all better than tossing them a couple dollars for booze and drugs. And I realize you're trying to make this into a personal attack on me for being cruel, insensitive or whatever else. You are entitled to your opinion and to spend your money as you choose. I'm also entitled to my opinion. Find me any study that shows giving a nominal amount of money to panhandlers is beneficial to their long-term outcomes and I'll consider changing my mind.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 25, 2011 16:40:06 GMT -5
Don't really care if someone thinks I am paranoid. I also agree with jim that giving a couple bucks isn't really doing much besides making me feel like a better person and making me look better to people on this board.
The guy is still going to be homeless, he is going to be just as hungry tomorrow. My $2 didn't do much.
Instead I choose to put that $2 to better use by giving it to charities and shopping at places like Goodwill that are equipped to actually give people who are homeless a better shot at life. My $2 will go a lot further in their hands than giving it to one homeless person will.
If that makes me an inhuman uncaring monster in the eyes of some posters, oh well.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Feb 25, 2011 16:59:22 GMT -5
I wonder if anyone ever asked any of those homeless people why aren't they going to shelters or food banks or many other places that we all directly or indirectly are paying for.
Lena
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ihearyou2
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Post by ihearyou2 on Feb 25, 2011 16:59:45 GMT -5
Most homeless use the money for their drug habits, ask them if they want food instead and then you'll see what they are really after.
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daylight
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Post by daylight on Feb 25, 2011 17:02:53 GMT -5
I'm not sure about the state of US shelters, but apparently, in my city, your stuff gets stolen and they are waaay overcrowded.
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Feb 25, 2011 17:08:35 GMT -5
I give money to organizations that help homeless people, not homeless people directly.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Feb 25, 2011 17:53:41 GMT -5
I wonder if anyone ever asked any of those homeless people why aren't they going to shelters or food banks or many other places that we all directly or indirectly are paying for. Lena I didn't actually ask him, but given the path in the snow I saw from his walker I am pretty sure this guy was actually did just come from the homeless shelter. And given that the shelter doesn't serve any lunch & the only free lunch place in town is about a mile from the shelter in the direction he was heading, I was guessing that was where he was going. But, again didn't ask, only theorizing. Perhaps he was heading to that end of town because there are more people down there & he'll get more money begging. If he didn't come from a homeless shelter & the walker was a prop, then he really was new at this because there are far better begging locations than walking through this strip of town. Yes, it did make me feel like a good person, but I didn't post it hoping to look better to the people on the board. Honestly, the reason I even thought of posting it was because in one of oldtex's threads a while back there was a stat that liberals are more likely than conservatives to give money to a person on the street. So I was curious what people would say.
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Post by cytoglycerine on Feb 25, 2011 18:07:13 GMT -5
When my DOD came to visit a few years ago, he gave money to the guy whose sign said "Let's be honest, I want a beer" LOL!! That reminds me of a time back in high school...I was out with my then-boyfriend and we came across a scruffy looking homeless man who was holding a sign that said "Need money for food weed!". I thought it was humourous, and at least the guy was being honest about what he would be doing with any money given to him. XBF gave him some change and thanked him for the chuckle.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Feb 25, 2011 18:31:23 GMT -5
As for the "the walker could be a prop" and "they could jerk the car door open" folks, do you really live your lives in that much fear? Or is it just fear of the other? I mean, do you look at the folks on the street with suits on, or even jeans and t-shirt and think to yourself "Better not talk to that guy, he might try and rob me"? Or when you're stopped at a stop light, and a pedestrian cuts the from the sidewalk to the crosswalk coming right next to your car, do you think "I'd better lock the doors, he could jerk my car door open"? In either case, is it different if the person is male and black? Honestly. How do you live with such constant fear?
I drive DBF to work at all hours of the night from time to time, and I really get nervous on the days when he works in a store in downtown San Francisco (his location changes all the time). Why? Because the lights change very slowly at 1 or 2 o'clock in the morning. Because there are a lot of unsavory characters on the streets at those hours of the night, many of whom are homeless. And because it would be pretty easy for them to come up to me, yank the door open, and slide inside (if my door was unlocked, which it never is - standard precaution on my part).
So while I wouldn't say I live in fear, let's just say that I have a healthy respect for the mental dysfunction that enables someone to prefer living on the street to getting some form of a job. There is one dude in particular that hangs out by my work. I see him once, sometimes twice a day begging for change. Now, he must have regulars that help him out or he would move to a different corner - but I bet he also remembers the people that don't help him, ever, and I am one of those.
Who's to say that one day this guy won't flip his lid and start attacking the people who never helped him? Or even the people that DID help him? Most likely he's harmless, but you never know and it makes me damn nervous.
The solution is not to start giving him money, either. So the answer to your question is no, I do not give to homeless people. And I hate it when people use children and animals as props for extra charity. Kids in this country are not on the streets. They are in foster care.
ETA: Honestly, no, I don't fear the people in the suits nearly as much. This is the business district - these people not only have jobs, they have a heck of a lot more to lose than people on the streets. They would have no motive for hurting me and no good reason to do it. Homeless people wouldn't either, but mentally ill individuals do not need a reason to do senseless things. So yes, they make me nervous. If that makes me a bad and judgmental person, so be it.
I have been known to give food before, but that was when I lived in NYC. I did a ton of dumb things when I was younger and living there that I wouldn't repeat today.
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skweet
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Post by skweet on Feb 25, 2011 18:48:18 GMT -5
With the social programs and safety nets in the US, there is no reason for someone to be homeless and hungry. It is a lifestyle choice to be homeless and hungry, and who am I try to change their mind. Pan-handlers are either mentally imbalanced, substance dependent or make more money pan-handleing than I make going to work. I feel for the mentally imbalanced, but there are no good (safe) reasons to engage anyone begging. I walk by, and don't feel guilty. I don't want to buy their next hit, drink, dolce gabbana purse, or feed them if what they really need is a guardian.
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Nazgul Girl
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Post by Nazgul Girl on Feb 25, 2011 20:31:37 GMT -5
We give to two local foodbanks. Period. We've given to other charities over the years, but most of them have pestered us to death, so we don't give to them anymore. We don't give to our local orchestra or opera company even though they're worthy causes. We don't save crocodiles, horses, dogs, cats or snow leopards anymore. We don't give to religious institutions, college scholarships, etc. We have helped our daughter out many times when she's having one of her periodic mood swings that renders her unemployable, etc., and she was practically qualified as a charity herself. That has stopped finally when she handed us our asses on a visit to see her. She is living with us right now, but is having a lot of interviews, paying us rent, and is still damned unhappy that I dared to buy her a $10 coat because she wasn't adequately clothed for our harsh winters. We don't give out $$ to unknown others. I still buy Girl Scout cookies at work from two parties for political reasons, but that will stop one of these days too, when their daughters and granddaughters don't belong to the G.S. anymore.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 25, 2011 21:35:20 GMT -5
When I write a check to charity I mark out my address on the check so they can't pester me or sell my info to anyone else. Really ticks them off but it pleases me!!!
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Post by honeybunny66 on Feb 25, 2011 21:54:03 GMT -5
Some of the responses - WOW!!! I was a homeless case manager for several years and I could tell some stories.
However, to the person who claims that all your money does is "buy drugs and alcohol" - not necessarily true. Every shelter does not accept an intact family. Some Women Shelters do not accept males over age 13 and some Male Shelters do not accept children. So where does that leave the family? Yes, they may only have that room for one night and may not know where they're going to be tomorrow. But at least this one night, the family had a safe and secure place to sleep.
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lynda in iowa
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Post by lynda in iowa on Feb 25, 2011 22:02:38 GMT -5
I have to agree Jimmo85 is right on the money, and frugalnurse is gullible. I am a recovering alcoholic and addict, have worked in jails and homeless shelters, and my perception is pretty good. 95% of the people (or more) begging on the street are looking for alcohol/drug money. If anyone really wants to help, support a street ministry or homeless shelter or food pantry in your city. There are actually tons of social services out there geared for this, and we don't need to be the enablers.
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formerexpat
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Post by formerexpat on Feb 25, 2011 22:49:01 GMT -5
I never give money. Partly because I rarely ever carry cash on me and also because I don't believe they always buy food and I don't want to fund a drug or alcohol habit.
What I do is walk with the person to the nearest place with food and buy them a meal. Some refuse when I offer to buy them a meal. Some are appreciative of the gesture.
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hodap2001
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Post by hodap2001 on Feb 26, 2011 7:01:38 GMT -5
I work in Metro D.C. and I've never given change to any of them. There are the regulars who stand outside of a Metro Station and I pretty much ignore them and they know I do; therefore, they don't ask me for change anymore, because they know I won't.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 26, 2011 7:52:28 GMT -5
Giving panhandlers money is no different than rewarding those that produce more children to get more welfare money. By doing this "good deed" you perpetuate them continuing to do this. They wouldn't do it if it weren't profitable. It makes the streets unsafe and disgusting. I'm ashamed to go to Tampa because the chicken shit council is too afraid to do their jobs and that is to rid the Tampa area of panhandlers. I hope they get voted off the council and replaced with those that aren't afraid to do the tax payers bidding.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2011 9:18:48 GMT -5
^^^ The longer people keep giving them money on the street, the longer they will stay there. If no one gave them money, they wouldn't keep panhandling. They would actually go to the shelters that are available and possibly seek out help. Again, if you want to help, there are plenty of things you can do that have been discussed on this thread...bring them to the local shelter for one or donate money to the shelter that provides help. Giving the panhandlers money is not helping. It's your easy way of thinking you're doing a good deed. And I'm not trying to single you because it's human nature to do this.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 26, 2011 10:08:25 GMT -5
It's getting less and less of human nature as people stop doing the "feel better about themselves" thing and start thinking of their own future. I worked hard for my money and enough gets stolen in taxes to support things I don't believe in or support. Taking more of it to reward those that choose not to work and earn their own and in doing so makes our streets unsafe is just wrong. I'm glad you feel good about contributing to the problem because, of course, it's all about you.
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Frugal Nurse
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Post by Frugal Nurse on Feb 26, 2011 10:39:09 GMT -5
I may be "gullible", but I know the other side of things. When I was 5, my parents (who were both unstable, with mental illness and addiction problems) decided to pack what we could fit in our car and move us (2 adults, 3 children) from central Florida to North Alabama. It was a traumatic event that just kept getting worse. When we got to Alabama, we had no money and no place to stay. We slept in our car a few nights, while my dad found a job. After his first week's pay, my parents bought a tent and paid the cheap weekly rent at a state campground (hey, at least we were able to take showers and have a place to sleep). We "camped" for about 4 months. During that time, there was very little money for food, clothing, toys, etc. Every once in awhile another camper would notice that we weren't just camping there, we were living there, and would give us a bag of groceries, or clothes and toys (my favorite, beloved doll came form a stranger at the campground). They'd invite us over to their campsite for hot dogs or whatever they were eating. Eventually, a local news station found out, did a story on us, and I remember how big my eyes were when the next several cars drove up and gave us bags and bags of groceries and clothes. We finally did get an apartment, after school started and someone at the school contacted social services and they threatened to take us away.
So, while we technically weren't beggars, we were homeless, and I remember how wonderful the kindness of strangers made me feel. We'd go hungry sometimes, picking wild berries for something to eat, but when people found out about us, it was such a relief to know that we wouldn't starve. If my $1 might help someone else out like that, it is a gamble I'm willing to take.
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Frugal Nurse
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Post by Frugal Nurse on Feb 26, 2011 10:43:12 GMT -5
Also, while I know there are lots of social services program available to the needy, I also know that many people are not willing to submit to their rules. Many homeless people do have mental illness. In order to take advantage of social services, they are typically required to take their meds, which people with schizophrenia and bipolar disorder are reluctant to to. Many schizophrenics are paranoid, and believe the pills are going to hurt them. Also, as was mentioned before, shelters typically split families apart, with one taking women and children, while the men have to go to another. Shelters are not safe places, and many people would rather sleep on the street. Finding a job when you have no home address, place to shower, or clean clothes is next to impossible.
Everything is not as black and white as most of these posts tend to imply. Like I said, if you don't want to give top beggars, that is OK. But don't act like those of us that do donate to beggars are creating the problem.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 26, 2011 10:58:47 GMT -5
Sorry but you are contributing to the problem and if those that do not wish to follow the rules, like working people do in order to recieve money, then so be it. Your family was down on their luck and I am sorry about your parent's mental instability and wish that social services had stepped in for you. I'm glad for the kindness of strangers toward you children but you weren't out on the street with signs begging for money and harassing those that don't give it like it's your right.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2011 11:25:03 GMT -5
My ex-husband, an alcoholic who probably also had bipolar disorder (depends on who did the diagnosing), died last September of liver and kidney failure just before his 64th birthday. He was a brilliant, gifted man but a drunk and abusive husband. His sister paid for rehab twice. From someone he knew in FL, where he died, I learned that he pretty much lived for each SS check, which he'd spend mostly on vodka. I grieve for what he lost in his life- the relationships, the money, the material things that were so important to him. Every time I see a homeless person I see my Ex's face.
I still don't hand them money. I give to the food banks and charities that take care of them. God bless them- they have a gift I don't. It would leave me perpetually depressed working with people unlikely to get out of their situations. I found that my Ex, who'd always been a voracious reader, had spent a lot of time at a local library where they'd been kind to him. I sent them a decent-sized donation and the Director sent me a note thanking me and providing some more details about my Ex and how he'd had such eclectic taste in reading. It made me feel like I'd done something constructive.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 26, 2011 11:52:18 GMT -5
Sad for him, what a waste. You did what you could without enabling his bahvior.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 26, 2011 11:52:53 GMT -5
Behavior, sorry.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Feb 26, 2011 12:37:40 GMT -5
When I lived in Denver, I was so bombarded by requests that I would have been homeless. I donated to a shelter that took in women and children who had been abused.
Here I donate to the only shelter in the area that takes in women and children and also has programs to help them get on their feet and get a job.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2011 12:52:38 GMT -5
I may be "gullible", but I know the other side of things. When I was 5, my parents (who were both unstable, with mental illness and addiction problems) decided to pack what we could fit in our car and move us (2 adults, 3 children) from central Florida to North Alabama. It was a traumatic event that just kept getting worse. When we got to Alabama, we had no money and no place to stay. We slept in our car a few nights, while my dad found a job. After his first week's pay, my parents bought a tent and paid the cheap weekly rent at a state campground (hey, at least we were able to take showers and have a place to sleep). We "camped" for about 4 months. During that time, there was very little money for food, clothing, toys, etc. Every once in awhile another camper would notice that we weren't just camping there, we were living there, and would give us a bag of groceries, or clothes and toys (my favorite, beloved doll came form a stranger at the campground). They'd invite us over to their campsite for hot dogs or whatever they were eating. Eventually, a local news station found out, did a story on us, and I remember how big my eyes were when the next several cars drove up and gave us bags and bags of groceries and clothes. We finally did get an apartment, after school started and someone at the school contacted social services and they threatened to take us away. So, while we technically weren't beggars, we were homeless, and I remember how wonderful the kindness of strangers made me feel. We'd go hungry sometimes, picking wild berries for something to eat, but when people found out about us, it was such a relief to know that we wouldn't starve. If my $1 might help someone else out like that, it is a gamble I'm willing to take. frugalnurse, I realize this is a topic that certainly resonates with you given your family history. I'm glad your story has a happy ending and that you and family were able to pull yourselves up by the collective bootstraps. Your family got out of the situation because your dad got a job, not because you became dependent on money from passer-bys. It is great that strangers offered to provide you meals and purchase groceries as you got up on your feet. And I don't think anyone on this thread has suggested there's anything wrong with giving food to the homeless. A lot of us just don't see a positive benefit in giving the homeless money as it often does more harm than good.
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Post by gsbrq on Feb 26, 2011 13:07:57 GMT -5
I don't give money to panhandlers. I have given food, and I've given cash to people when I saw they were in need.
To those who do give cash, I think your contributions are more likely to do good if given to charitable organizations as opposed to panhandlers, but it's your money to do with as you please.
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kansasflower
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Post by kansasflower on Feb 26, 2011 13:14:14 GMT -5
The gift of food helps; unfortunately, the gift of money most likely enables bad habits. Have a family member who has been homeless/on the fringe of homelessness off and on since the 1980's as a result of drug/alcohol and possibly mental health problems. For decades, different family members would try to "help out" by giving money, which only enabled the bad habits. Four years ago, the family switched their approach. One person provided him with a studio apartment to live. Other family members take him places such as the grocery store, dr appts, etc as needed and to church every week. Still more family members, including my DH and I, send him food and other items for him to use. While he may get gift cards at Christmas, the rest of the year he is given true help but no money. The change in this person since getting true help has been amazing and for the better.
The point is that homelessness can not be fixed with a few dollars. True help in the form of shelter, food, proper socialization and time are needed. Unfortunately, most people and even organizations (shelters, charities, churches) do not have the resources or time available to help every person, although some do get the true help they need.
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