DS' college plan- is this a "good" program?

[sheilaincali]

DS is 16 and finishing his sophomore year of high school.  He is a highly intelligent kid that loves school and wants to major in Chemical Engineering in college.  We have been talking about the possibility of him attending school at the University of Winnipeg in Canada.  We live in Minnesota and they offer reciprocity with MN.  He is very much on board with this plan. 

This is the link for the degree program he is interested in. 

 www.uwinnipeg.ca/index/cms-filesystem-action?file=pdfs/factsheets/factsheet-pre-engineering.pdf

Does this sound like a good program?  Will he be employable in the US after he graduates?  Will these degrees make him employable in other parts of the world?  He is open to going straight from the bachelor's into a graduate degree program.   

He is leaving next month to spend part of the summer going to school in Germany and speaks German.  He has a bit of a wanderlust soul and is open to working pretty much anywhere in the world.

I'm not very familiar with the world of Engineering and I would like to make sure we point him in the right direction. 

What say you all? 

[chiver78]

I think it sounds like a good idea. accredited Canadian engineering schools are definitely recognized here in the US, and the fact sheet said it would be a dual degree anyway.

I have a BS/ChE and I almost chose McGill University in Montreal, fwiw.

[sheilaincali]

Thanks Chiver- that's what I was thinking too but I wanted to make sure I wasn't reading too much into it or making the program seem better than it is. DS is one of those serious students and would start doing college tours now if he could. He and has friends have been talking about degrees, programs and universities since junior high.

[Deleted]

I agree- there are some darned respectable Canadian universities that carry a lot of weight with employers in the US. In my field, the U. of Waterloo Actuarial program is one of the most respected.

Has DS looked into the U. of Cincinnati? I always recommend my alma mater for engineering because of its excellent reputation and also its co-op program. You go to school the whole first year, then alternate periods of work with periods of schooling (used to be academic quarters). The work is part of a structured "co-op" agreement, usually the same employer the whole time, with progessively greater responsibilities. It's a 5-year program but typically you have solid work experience and an offer from your co-op employer. If he can find a co-op job near you, he can save a ton of money to pay school costs. That's how my Dad got his degree.

[sheilaincali]

Athena- that looks like an interesting program. But I don't think they have reciprocity with MN so out state tuition would be a killer

For the sake of proper planning I'm assuming zero in financial aid and scholarships. Based on the testing they've done so far DS "should" get a 34 on his ACTs (out of a possible 36). He gets really good grades now. I'm not sure if his extra curricular activities are diverse enough.

Currently he is:

Captain of his competition Robotics Team

Captain of his Knowledge Bowl Team

Member of the History Club (and just competed at the State History competition with his Senior Documentary)

Member of the Chemistry Club

Participates in Youth In Government (since 8th grade- one year Leadership Corps and two years as an Appeals Court Lawyer, next year he will be a Lobbyist)

Part of a German Immersion partnership program. He will be attending school in Germany this summer.

He works part time for me and at our friendly, neighborhood game store.

He is not at all athletically inclined. Is there something else I should encourage him to do or join? Band/Orchestra and that is too late at this point- most of those kids have been playing for years already.

[justme]

Not sure if it's still a thing they look for, and I had to do it to get the state-wide 100% tuition scholarship, but I remember volunteering being something everyone went on about in addition to school activities/clubs. 

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

TD is a chemical engineer, working in oil and gas industry. He got his BS from University of BC.

He has always been employed, but the reason why he has been employed is that he has been incredibly flexible as to where he works. The field has a lot of 'feast or famine' years, and unless you are willing to go where ever the jobs are (which it sounds like your son is), then you do well. Only problem is that some of those places are not so nice and some are not where you'd take a family.

The problem with the field now (especially for him) is that in the mid 1990s there was a very large and long period of famine and many chemical engineers got out of the field altogether. Right now, those who managed to hang in there are looking at retirement and there is not near the number of engineers coming up in the ranks that they need to replace them. That leaves him in a fairly good position right now, with his experience and looking at another 10 years until retirement. If he wants, he can probably consult after retirement if he wants.

Another problem that he has run into is that while he loves the technical side of it, he abhors management and just doesn't want to do it. Unfortunately, when you reach this rank they expect you to start doing some managing and he is good enough that he has managed to weasel his way out of this. He has said he'd retire before doing this, and I believe him. I think his current company realizes this and since he is wanted as a process engineer badly, they're interested in keeping him happy.

[travelnut11]

Tell him to come to Wisconsin!  Reciprocity is of course not an issue, plus Madison is bit further south than Winnipeg so (slightly) better winters?    I didn't graduate from the Engineering School but did work there throughout my undergrad and understand it to be a pretty well regarded program. 

Of course, school in a foreign country sounds amazing too.  Does Minnesota have reciprocity with other places besides Wisconsin and Winnipeg? 

[sheilaincali]

Mich-  I'm not sure why or how DS landed on Chemical Engineering.  The way his brain works is absolutely fascinating to me.  He processing information so quickly and retains it forever.  When he was little he would always turn the tv on to either the History Channel or the Science Channel and leave it on in the background while he was playing.  He'd never stop what he was doing to actually "watch" the tv show but he'd listen to it while he was playing.  He'd come up to be at the end of the day and could spend an hour telling me everything he had learned that afternoon while he was playing with his legos.  Even now- 10 years later he could still tell you what he remembers from listening to a documentary on the Titanic or ancient Roman Empire when he was 6. 

I suggested to him that he would be happiest with a career in a field that required him to be using his brain.  We talked about the STEM fields and he picked Engineering.  The whole Chemical aspect is relatively new (this year). 

His Chemistry teacher is amazed at how quickly DS picks up the new concepts and pretty much just lets him do his own thing because DS masters things so much faster than the rest of the class.  He told DS to embrace that because Chemistry doesn't come naturally to most people and if it did to DS than he should try not to lose that.

I accepted long ago that my kid is significantly smarter than I could ever hope to be.  He's pretty flexible at this point so if I can come back to him with other suggestions he would be open to them.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

May 7, 2014 11:32:03 GMT -5 travelnut11 said:

Tell him to come to Wisconsin!  Reciprocity is of course not an issue, plus Madison is bit further south than Winnipeg so (slightly) better winters?    I didn't graduate from the Engineering School but did work there throughout my undergrad and understand it to be a pretty well regarded program. 

Of course, school in a foreign country sounds amazing too.  Does Minnesota have reciprocity with other places besides Wisconsin and Winnipeg? 

I believe North Dakota too, my nephew's going there.

[sheilaincali]

Travelnut- Wisconsin is on his list too.  One of his closest friends is from Wisconsin and they have been talking about going to college together (but for Chemical Engineering). Wisconsin is one they've been talking about looking into.

MN has reciprocity (I believe) with the surrounding states: North Dakota, South Dakota, Iowa, Wisconsin and a handful of schools in Canada (Winnipeg and Manitoba for sure)

He is an only child and DH and I have always told him to be open to opportunities and be willing to go wherever he needs to go. We told him that basically if he was out of country we'd love to fly over to visit him and when he settles down we'll move to whatever area he ends up in.  We've been warning him for years that we will retire to wherever he settles.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

If he is fluent in German, has he considered going to school in Germany?

Germany has always had very good science programs (at least classically), and if he has wanderlust, going there would probably give him more international exposure than in the US....or even in Canada.

[sheilaincali]

Mich- He is fairly fluent in German now and will be more so after he gets back this summer and has two more years of German in school.  We've talked about that too. He's open to it.  My only concern is mobility (?) of his degree.  You always hear stories of cab drivers that were Doctors in their home countries. I realize that's extreme but with the PE licensing, certifications, etc. I want to make sure a Canadian or German degree will be able to compete with traditional degrees from US schools (if he is seeking employment in the US).

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

May 7, 2014 11:49:17 GMT -5 sheilaincali said:

Mich- He is fairly fluent in German now and will be more so after he gets back this summer and has two more years of German in school.  We've talked about that too. He's open to it.  My only concern is mobility (?) of his degree.  You always hear stories of cab drivers that were Doctors in their home countries. I realize that's extreme but with the PE licensing, certifications, etc. I want to make sure a Canadian or German degree will be able to compete with traditional degrees from US schools (if he is seeking employment in the US).

Let me talk to TD and ask him how their firm would look at a German degree.  He works for an international firm that has offices all over the world, and I know he has worked with engineers from all over the world.  He's mentioned that he worked with a lot of French engineers in Indonesia, but for that job he was contracted out to a foreign firm.

I do know recently his employer brought in a couple engineers from India.  TD was less than impressed with them.  And don't ask him about Saudi engineers unless you want to see his head explode!

[chiver78]

any international company is going to accept a degree from an accredited school anywhere, IMHO. I work for a wholly-owned subsidiary of a global pharmaceutical company, and we have locations all over the world ourselves. employees transfer between sites, and they haven't all been educated here.

does DS know which industry direction he wants to take after graduation?

[alabamagal]

I am a chemical engineer, who used to work for a large Fortune 500 company.  We hired chemical engineers from top level US universities for US jobs (MIT, Cal Tech, Illinos, Penn State, Delaware, Georgia Tech (my alma mater), and a few others)

Personally I would go to a US university.  The link you posted said it was dual degree and finish up in MN, why not just go to MN school.  It also would be a 5 year program, some US schools are 4 year and some are 5 year. Actually googled top chemical engineering schools and U Minnesota Twin Cities was near the top. Wisconsin is very highly rated school.  When you look at worldwide top chemical engineering schools, US has a lot in the top, but not Canada.

RE: Graduate school in engineering is not required to get a good job, only if you want to go into teaching or high level research.  My previous company employed mostly BS level and some PhD in chemical engineering.  In other science, non-engineering (Chemistry, biology) graduate programs are more beneficial.

[Bob Ross]

May 7, 2014 11:32:03 GMT -5 travelnut11 said:

Tell him to come to Wisconsin!

Yes, but then he'd have to be amongst the Wisconsinese.

I'm sure you can see the dilemma.

[sheilaincali]

Mich- Thanks for asking TD for his take

Chiver- not sure yet. Honestly I'm not sure what his options would be.  On the one hand we want him to go in his own direction and make his own choices but we'd like to gently guide him a bit. I suggested Engineering and he added the Chemical part.

Georgia- that's an option too. I just thought that the "international" part with Canada would add a bit of pizzazz to his resume. Make him seem more exposed to different things. We suggested it a couple of years ago and he jumped all over it. Plus I don't remember exactly but I think him doing the Canada part would lower the cost a decent amount. I may be confusing this with another program he's looked at too.

My ultimate goal is to get him through a reputable program that he likes with either no student loans or minimal ones. I've been around this board long enough too see what a burden excessive student loans can be. He is willing to work for it and contribute to the costs of his education as well. I just don't want him to have to limit his opportunities post graduation because he is worried about repaying tens of thousands in student loans.

[Regis]

I'm a civil engineer and pretty much everyone gets their P.E. registration.  Is it necessary for a ChE?

[chiver78]

it depends what you are doing. the A&E firms are full of PEs in every discipline - ChE included. within my company, it's not needed. that's what we pay the A&E firms for.

I do automation engineering now anyway.

[sheilaincali]

I have no idea what certifications or licensing they recommend for a ChE. The ones that have chimed in so far are the only ones I've had the opportunity to ask. In my field (highway heavy road construction) I could talk to Civil Engineers every day of the week but DS' is decidedly anti- Civil Engineering. I honestly think it's his form of defiance since I work for a construction company and DH work for an Engineering firm that does construction projects.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

TD doesn't have one, doesn't seem to have hampered him. But will ask if it is more of a requirement for newer engineers that his firm hires.

[CarolinaKat]

I'm ChemE here. You really don't need your engineering stamp like you do if you're in civil, although some of us get it cause we can. Unless you're working in SC, they enacted a law a few years back that you need your stamp if you're going to have 'engineer' in the job title. A lot of people were angry.... My friends working for design contractors don't seem to need a stamp either.

I agree with others, there's many ways to go with a CHE that he needs to fiure out what he want to do with his life. I'm in Biotech, apparently TD's in the very traditional Big Oil , I have friends in environmental engineering roles, building projects, validation, automation, tooling, basically we're all over the place.

I would suggest interning and seeing what siuts him.

ETA: Getting hired had a lot to do with my internships. Also I went to the ChE program that's local here and A LOT of engineers here went through it and that helped too.

[sheilaincali]

We typically have a family discussion every night at dinner. This gives me a topic for tonight. We'll talk to him tonight and see what types of work he sees himself doing in the future. 

You all have given me a lot of think about, a few questions for the kid and some great input.  

Thank you  

[sheilaincali]

I know there was some drama when another poster had her son read and comment on the tattoo thread. I hope you all are ok with me showing this thread to DS tonight. If not let me know and I won't show it to him.

He is well aware of this board since I talk it about it some.  Mostly in the form of "there was this thread on YM off topic today about xyz what's your take on it?"

[chiver78]

speaking for myself, I think this topic is very different from that one, and we've all been offering up things for him to think about that may not have occurred to him yet.

go for it

[sheilaincali]

Thanks Chiver

I know the topic is different but people mentioned that they posted under the assumption that they were communicating with adults and I figured I'd warn you all in case there was an objection.

I don't plan on giving him free reign on my account

[yogiii]

I have a friend doing a ChemE post doc in Germany, loves it and will mostly likely remain there for life.  So even if he wants his BS from a US university, who knows where his life will take him down the road.

[CarolinaKat]

I'd be happy to answer any questions for your son Shelia. ChemE wasn't my first major choice, but it was the right one for me.

[chiver78]

^ditto. I started with it, out of the various majors I'd applied for, figuring that it was going to be a hell of a lot easier to switch OUT of it than INTO it if I changed my mind later.

as I said, I do process control automation for a biotech company. if there's anything I can answer about that for him, feel free to shoot me a PM. or, post in here. someone else's kid might have the same question.