Deleted
Joined: Oct 9, 2024 12:20:14 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 6, 2014 9:23:15 GMT -5
I actually am not as worried about cervical cancer. In this country we do have preventative medicine which makes it very rare in the US. That said, HPV has also been implicated in the rise of throat and mouth cancers and other complications with fertility, etc.
The vaccine is only some HPV strains however.
I also worry about unintended consequences. Kind of how we are in danger currently of a post antibiotic world.
Or. Chicken pox can kill some, but for most it isn't painful. Shingles on the other hand is very painful, and there has been about a 40% increase in shingles since we started using the chicken pox vaccine... I'm not getting into the HPV debate, but regarding Shingles wanted to state that DH got Shingles after being around a toddler who had just received her chicken pox vaccine and was having a reaction to it.
|
|
|
Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on May 6, 2014 9:23:18 GMT -5
I actually am not as worried about cervical cancer. In this country we do have preventative medicine which makes it very rare in the US. That said, HPV has also been implicated in the rise of throat and mouth cancers and other complications with fertility, etc.
The vaccine is only some HPV strains however.
I also worry about unintended consequences. Kind of how we are in danger currently of a post antibiotic world.
Or. Chicken pox can kill some, but for most it isn't painful. Shingles on the other hand is very painful, and there has been about a 40% increase in shingles since we started using the chicken pox vaccine... The strains it causes are those strains associated with the dysplasia it causes. The rest of the strains have not been associated with cancer, so they were not used. I have mentioned this several times about chicken pox....it CAN kill you, or make you very very sick. With the advent of antibiotic resistant microbes, a huge open sore on your body gives you a good chance to pick one of those nasties up.....and those nasties are now commonly found in the community, not just hospitals. A secondary infection does the dirty work, but you would not have gotten it unless you had a breech of one of your largest immune organs...your skin. Quite frankly, getting chicken pox now would scare the crap out of me (and I had it as a child) due to this very issue. I worked with a post doc in TX, right before the vaccine came out. She had chicken pox as a child, but apparently never acquired immunity. She caught it again from her nephew, it almost killed her and she was in ICU for 3 weeks. When you vaccinate your child for childhood diseases, not only do you protect that child, but you protect those children (and adults) who either cannot mount an immune reaction, or have some sort of contraindications against immunity. It is called herd immunity, and in order to get this secondary effect, ten the rates of immunization must be very high.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 9, 2024 12:20:14 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 6, 2014 9:26:07 GMT -5
Walk, my kids had the vaccine. But I am concerned about unintended consequences, as I said. We think in the short term, and sometimes I worry the long term is going to kick our asses...
|
|
|
Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on May 6, 2014 9:30:57 GMT -5
I was also looking online, and it looks like you can get the shot up until 26. They just recommend the shot early before you are sexually active. I'm also wondering why 11-12, though. That doesn't give you much time if kids are active at age 12 (and they are in my parts...) I would think it would be better to immunize the kids before they reach double digits in age to be assured they are not sexually active.. Probably social pressure. Parents don't like to think that their kids start experimenting sexually until they are older, but evidence shows otherwise. Look at the screams about vaccinating babies against hep B. No, they are not about to be sexually active at this age, but at this point they know it confers lifelong immunity (those who first took the vaccine as healthcare workers are still protected 30+ years after the series) and it is the one time in the child's life where peds see the child on a regular schedule. I think that the hep B schedule is getting a series of 3 shots, first shot, second at at 6 weeks, third 2-3 months and blood drawn to determine titer.
|
|
|
Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on May 6, 2014 9:36:00 GMT -5
I recently had to get the chicken pox vaccine, even though I had the disease as a child. The school I was at I had to show proof of immunization, I didn't have it so just let them vaccinate me again.
this turned out to be a good thing as my stepmom wound up with shingles last year. TD, after seeing her in such pain ran (not walked) to get his vaccine. His insurance covered it. Mine does not, be ause I am not old enough but as I was reimmunized with the chicken pox vaccine, I should be covered until I am.
|
|
NomoreDramaQ1015
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:26:32 GMT -5
Posts: 48,086
Member is Online
|
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on May 6, 2014 9:36:20 GMT -5
I don't believe they automatically do a blood draw to determine a titer, at least they haven't with Gwen and she's four.
The only times I've had a titer done is when I started my job since I worked with lab animals and again when I got pregnant. They were pissy that I missed the third vaccine but apparently 2 were enough to grant me immunity.
I believe Hep A/B is all one series now. You don't have to do six shots anymore. I know the shots I got contained both but I can't remember if Gwen's did, I'll have to look at her immunization records.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,767
|
Post by thyme4change on May 6, 2014 9:36:24 GMT -5
Hmmm - my daughter is almost 12 and our doc hasn't mentioned it. I know all parents say this, but I'm pretty sure she isn't sexually active. My son might be by that time, but my girl is fairly disinterested in the whole dating process. And her school is 80% girls, and 10% gay guys. That narrows it down a bit.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 9, 2024 12:20:14 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 6, 2014 9:38:17 GMT -5
So you're saying I should send DD to a performing arts HS?!?
|
|
|
Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on May 6, 2014 9:40:16 GMT -5
I think I'll use this as an educational tool in the coming year to let the kids learn how to research this themselves, analyze the data and let them make their own decisions on it. If you let your children make this decision, PLEASE figure out a way to get them to access Medline to do their research. Google is not peer reviewed literature, and while PubMed let's you access abstracts, you really do need to read the whole article.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 9, 2024 12:20:14 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 6, 2014 9:40:50 GMT -5
But you actually have to HAVE chicken pox or the vaccine to GET shingles. The chicken pox vaccine won't stop shingles. In fact it is what gives you the dormant bug that causes shingles later on... Contrary to lone's post, you don't 'catch' shingles.
I wish titers were more common, but I know that would cost money. Are there any studies where titers were used to determine whether boosters are commonly necessary in the general public?
|
|
Wisconsin Beth
Distinguished Associate
No, we don't walk away. But when we're holding on to something precious, we run.
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 11:59:36 GMT -5
Posts: 30,626
|
Post by Wisconsin Beth on May 6, 2014 9:41:29 GMT -5
What's titer?
|
|
Sam_2.0
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 15:42:45 GMT -5
Posts: 12,350
|
Post by Sam_2.0 on May 6, 2014 9:42:09 GMT -5
My kids will be getting this. And I will make sure they understand that it does NOT prevent them from getting STDs so that they (hopefully) don't get a false sense of security from it.
We come from a very conservative religious background and most families I know are staunchly against it for the reasons MN posted earlier. However, there are times in life when even a "chaste" person will be exposed. A girl may be a virgin getting married, but is she 1000% sure that her partner is? What if her partner dies and she later re-marries? What about instances of rape? I don't get my child vaccinated to protect her against things I know for certain that she will be exposed to. I get her vaccinated so that in the off-chance she is exposed that she will be protected. I've never been exposed to polio that I am aware of, yet I was still vaccinated against it and vaccinated DD for it.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 9, 2024 12:20:14 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 6, 2014 9:42:14 GMT -5
I think I'll use this as an educational tool in the coming year to let the kids learn how to research this themselves, analyze the data and let them make their own decisions on it. If you let your children make this decision, PLEASE figure out a way to get them to access Medline to do their research. Google is not peer reviewed literature, and while PubMed let's you access abstracts, you really do need to read the whole article. Don't worry. I used to do research for a living. I know a good source or not. Its one of the key skills I feel like I need to teach my children (actually that I think all children need to learn) ... How to analyze a source and how to identify logical fallacy.
|
|
NomoreDramaQ1015
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:26:32 GMT -5
Posts: 48,086
Member is Online
|
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on May 6, 2014 9:42:59 GMT -5
Yes you have to have had chicken pox at some point in your life in order to get Shingles. You cannot get Shingles if you've never had chicken pox. .
You can't catch Shingles from someone who has chicken pox. However a person can catch chicken pox from a person who has an active shingles outbreak.
There is a Shingles vaccination they recommend elderly people get.
|
|
Sam_2.0
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 15:42:45 GMT -5
Posts: 12,350
|
Post by Sam_2.0 on May 6, 2014 9:43:19 GMT -5
I think I'll use this as an educational tool in the coming year to let the kids learn how to research this themselves, analyze the data and let them make their own decisions on it. If you let your children make this decision, PLEASE figure out a way to get them to access Medline to do their research. Google is not peer reviewed literature, and while PubMed let's you access abstracts, you really do need to read the whole article. I think learning to read actual scientific and medical research is a GREAT tool to have and should be taught to all adults.
|
|
CarolinaKat
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 16:10:37 GMT -5
Posts: 6,364
|
Post by CarolinaKat on May 6, 2014 9:43:39 GMT -5
I don't believe they automatically do a blood draw to determine a titer, at least they haven't with Gwen and she's four. The only times I've had a titer done is when I started my job since I worked with lab animals and again when I got pregnant. They were pissy that I missed the third vaccine but apparently 2 were enough to grant me immunity. I believe Hep A/B is all one series now. You don't have to do six shots anymore. I know the shots I got contained both but I can't remember if Gwen's did, I'll have to look at her immunization records. it's 3 shots total. I had to have them recently because I failed titer starting my job (never had the A vaccine as it didn't exist when I got the B series). 2 are combined and one is just hep b. Then you're good.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 9, 2024 12:20:14 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 6, 2014 9:43:57 GMT -5
Where they test your blood to see if you already have built up immunity before just going ahead and giving you another dose. Like Drama talked about. She was going for a third shot, but the titer showed she really only needed 2.
|
|
CarolinaKat
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 16:10:37 GMT -5
Posts: 6,364
|
Post by CarolinaKat on May 6, 2014 9:45:01 GMT -5
the measurement of anitibodies that are formed to fight a specific disease.... so basically your 'level' of immunity Above a certian point, you're considered 'fully immunized' against what the disease is/
|
|
milee
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2012 13:20:00 GMT -5
Posts: 12,344
|
Post by milee on May 6, 2014 9:45:42 GMT -5
I think I'll use this as an educational tool in the coming year to let the kids learn how to research this themselves, analyze the data and let them make their own decisions on it. If you let your children make this decision, PLEASE figure out a way to get them to access Medline to do their research. Google is not peer reviewed literature, and while PubMed let's you access abstracts, you really do need to read the whole article. You definitely want your kids using peer reviewed literature and literature from reputable sources. But using google to search can also be a teaching opportunity because you can go through the results with your kids and help teach them what a reputable source is and isn't. They're going to be using google for many other things, so this would be a good time to show them how unreliable some of the results are and how they can dig a little more to evaluate credibility for themselves.
|
|
NomoreDramaQ1015
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:26:32 GMT -5
Posts: 48,086
Member is Online
|
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on May 6, 2014 9:47:16 GMT -5
Actually I forgot the third shot. I got them in a hurry so I could go to Malayasia and the third shot was scheduled for when I'd be gone. I was supposed to go back to get it but never did. I just got lucky that my immunity was confirmed so they didn't make me get a third shot before I could start my job. I DID have to get an MMR booster because I didn't have any record of the second shot. I didn't have my complete immunization records. I tried to get them but they are 20+ years old at this point, the pediatrician's office wasn't sure they even had a copy anymore.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 9, 2024 12:20:14 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 6, 2014 9:48:10 GMT -5
This is something we do/did all the time. I'll say go research ___. Bring me one good source and one bad source. At least I used to, now they pretty much know If I say to research it means bring me a good source.
We haven't done as much peer reviewed stuff yet, but it is time to get into that.
|
|
justme
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 10, 2012 13:12:47 GMT -5
Posts: 14,618
|
Post by justme on May 6, 2014 10:09:41 GMT -5
I got the vaccine almost as soon as it came out. Mom drove me down as soon as our insurance covered it 100% like they did for other vaccines. I think I was 19 or 20 at the time? So I've had it for 8 years now. I had no side effects besides a sore arm for a few days after the shot. No different than any other vaccine they put into my muscle.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 9, 2024 12:20:14 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 6, 2014 10:13:26 GMT -5
But you actually have to HAVE chicken pox or the vaccine to GET shingles. The chicken pox vaccine won't stop shingles. In fact it is what gives you the dormant bug that causes shingles later on... Contrary to lone's post, you don't 'catch' shingles.
I wish titers were more common, but I know that would cost money. Are there any studies where titers were used to determine whether boosters are commonly necessary in the general public? Okay, maybe catch is the wrong word. He came down with Shingles.
|
|
Abby Normal
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 12:31:49 GMT -5
Posts: 3,501
|
Post by Abby Normal on May 6, 2014 10:13:50 GMT -5
milee, I'd heard somewhere that there's a push being started to get boys vaccinated for this too. As I said, I have a lousy track record of researching vaccinations so I have no idea where, when or why I think I heard this. When DS went in for his physical last year our pediatrician asked if we wanted to get it. But he's only 11 and when the doctor mentioned it, it freaked me out a bit. I told him I was not mentally prepared for that and would do it the following year. The idea being to get them vaccinated before they have sex. I told the doctor that DS could barely talk to the girl he liked so I didn't think having sex was in the near future. Should have seen DS's face.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 9, 2024 12:20:14 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 6, 2014 10:20:42 GMT -5
milee, I'd heard somewhere that there's a push being started to get boys vaccinated for this too. As I said, I have a lousy track record of researching vaccinations so I have no idea where, when or why I think I heard this. When DS went in for his physical last year our pediatrician asked if we wanted to get it. But he's only 11 and when the doctor mentioned it, it freaked me out a bit. I told him I was not mentally prepared for that and would do it the following year. The idea being to get them vaccinated before they have sex. I told the doctor that DS could barely talk to the girl he liked so I didn't think having sex was in the near future. Should have seen DS's face. And that is why we're mentally preparing 2 years out.
|
|
|
Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on May 6, 2014 10:23:18 GMT -5
But you actually have to HAVE chicken pox or the vaccine to GET shingles. The chicken pox vaccine won't stop shingles. In fact it is what gives you the dormant bug that causes shingles later on... Contrary to lone's post, you don't 'catch' shingles.
I wish titers were more common, but I know that would cost money. Are there any studies where titers were used to determine whether boosters are commonly necessary in the general public? Yes, titers are available but they cost more money than what people want to pay. I've had titers done to demonstrate that I had measles and mumps, otherwise I would have needed an MMR to do my practicum. My chicken pox titers were questionable even though I had chicken pox. The chicken pox vaccine WILL work like a shingles vaccine if you have had chicken pox, they're the same thing, different doses. I had to pay a couple hundred $$ OOP for these. How many people do you think are willing to pay this?
|
|
|
Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on May 6, 2014 10:25:47 GMT -5
This is something we do/did all the time. I'll say go research ___. Bring me one good source and one bad source. At least I used to, now they pretty much know If I say to research it means bring me a good source.
We haven't done as much peer reviewed stuff yet, but it is time to get into that. For something like this, yes. There is so much misinformation out there by popular media that it drives me nuts. 99/100 times, the original data does NOT say what the popular press article said.
|
|
NomoreDramaQ1015
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:26:32 GMT -5
Posts: 48,086
Member is Online
|
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on May 6, 2014 10:25:59 GMT -5
I've had titers done as part of my pre-natal screening. I know they screened me for MMR immunity and Hepatitis A/B. I THINK chicken pox was thrown in there too since they just had my word to go by that I had it but I am not 100% sure. All covered but when I read the EOB and got to the price tag . .
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 9, 2024 12:20:14 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 6, 2014 10:28:27 GMT -5
Which is another good lesson to learn. I've already taught them you need to use sources with citations, but they don't automatically think to look for those citations to check accuracy.
Well, except that I've taught them that, while Wiki isn't a source, if its a good wiki article, it will have citations you can use to go back to and see if THOSE are usable source...
|
|
|
Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on May 6, 2014 10:29:23 GMT -5
I had such a mild case of chicken pox as a kid (just a few on my entire body) that I asked for the chicken pox vaccine. They did a titer instead and said I was fine. They gave me the TDAP booster without a titer. For most adults, it is assumed that our pertussis is not working. That was the job that got away from me. The company I applied for, I was their top candidate to work on the clinical trials of the acellular pertussis vaccine. Only problem was that I was not going to move from a job I really liked for < 10% raise (and a higher COL area + state tax I was not paying). I hated doing that as that job would have been so interesting.
|
|