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Post by marjar on Feb 24, 2011 22:38:36 GMT -5
HELENA, Mont. — With each new bill, newly elected lawmakers from the loose-knit, largely conservative anti-tax tea party coalition are offering Montanans a vision of the future. Their state would be a place where officials can ignore U.S. laws, force FBI agents to get a sheriff's OK before arresting anyone, ban abortions, limit sex education in schools and create armed citizen militias. It's the tea party world. But not everyone is buying their vision. Some residents, Democratic Gov. Brian Schweitzer and even some Republican lawmakers say the bills are making Montana into a laughingstock. And, they say, the push to nullify federal laws could be dangerous. "We are the United States of America," said Schweitzer. "This talk of nullifying is pretty toxic talk. That led to the Civil War." www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41768730/ns/politics-more_politics/
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2011 22:41:04 GMT -5
I think Georgia still wins... its gonna take a lot to get past that Georgia miscarriage fiasco in the making...
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 24, 2011 22:43:33 GMT -5
Georgia is sooo last Monday.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2011 22:46:25 GMT -5
I don't know... that's some pretty insane stuff... Georgia might have to slide over...
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 24, 2011 22:47:01 GMT -5
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 24, 2011 22:50:59 GMT -5
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 24, 2011 22:55:17 GMT -5
I don't know... that's some pretty insane stuff... Georgia might have to slide over... (Bills will love this) Who remembers any happening in Egypt lately? Practically forgotten.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 24, 2011 23:02:14 GMT -5
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 24, 2011 23:03:17 GMT -5
One of the best.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 24, 2011 23:07:53 GMT -5
Bills-you even tied in a bit of Libya with the Bangles video.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Feb 24, 2011 23:34:44 GMT -5
So, Schwietzer is saying that talk of nullfication is "pretty toxic" so he must agree that the Obama regime must immediately:
1. Remedy the finding that the Obama regime has been found in contempt of court for violating the injunction that lifted the oil drilling ban-- which it has taken no steps do do.
2. Admit it has no authority to determine the Constitutionality of DOMA
3. Follow through on the prosecution and sentencing of the New Black Panthers for voter intimidation.
4. Comply with the recent federal court ruling that ObamaCare is unConstitutional in its entirety and cease acting in contempt of that ruling.
But I see what some people are saying. Rush Limbaugh used to run a parody-- and this was YEARS ago-- of "Welcome to Montana" where you get your own robe, gavel, and can hold court any time you're a mind to. Then it had like voice of a guy saying, "We find you guilty of high crimes and misdemeanors" and you hear another voice start to say something and then a BANG! gunshot and the previous voice comes back on and says, "I always knew he was a tri-lateralist". It was pretty funny then, and it's hard to deny its applicability to some things going on today.
Still, in the grand scheme of things-- it's also hard to deny the long tradition of nullification in America. Prohibition comes to mind-- and that was a Constitutional Amendment for Pete's sake. Let's face it-- Americans repealed that long before it was actually repealed. Last weekend we just celebrated a sport that started with moonshiners racing each other and running from the law.
We nullified the 55 mph speed limit almost instantaneously. That law has something like 2% to 3% compliance, and in 1995 Congress finally officially left speed limits up to the states-- Montana has no speed limits except what a driver deems "reasonable and safe" on long stretches of road.
States DO need to re-assert their power. We don't have a "national" government. We have a federal government. The states ARE sovereign, and the Constitution is a pact, but it's not a suicide pact-- and that especially holds true when the federal government is violating the Constitution and repeatedly over-steps its lawful authority.
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Post by Angel! on Feb 25, 2011 13:41:16 GMT -5
This hasn't been true in 10 years. They have a speed limit of 75 mph on highways now.
I'm really curious what is going to happen in the next election. The tea party & republicans got voted in because everyone is worried about the economy & govt. spending. It seems much of their attention has now been turned towards other conservative issues like abortion. I am thinking this will turn off a lot of people that voted for them because of their fiscal policies.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Feb 25, 2011 13:45:31 GMT -5
I certainly hope the people who are voting will look at the big picture and not allow themselves to be swayed by one, or two issues. There are, IMO, some pretty frightening ideas batting about out there!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2011 14:18:28 GMT -5
I think it is funny that some people are so certain that the Feds know what is best for them. Lots of disruption in November. Maybe people should start moving around, trying to find states that better suit their personal and business needs and wants. Oh, wait, they are already doing that. Arizona, by majority vote, seems to know what is best for Arizona. The Feds disagree. It's a LONG way from Washington to Arizona or Montana. I'm all for letting the majority of the citizens in a state have their say.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Feb 25, 2011 14:44:55 GMT -5
This hasn't been true in 10 years. They have a speed limit of 75 mph on highways now. I'm really curious what is going to happen in the next election. The tea party & republicans got voted in because everyone is worried about the economy & govt. spending. It seems much of their attention has now been turned towards other conservative issues like abortion. I am thinking this will turn off a lot of people that voted for them because of their fiscal policies. I blame myself for posting an unnecessary detail. My point remains: We have a FEDERAL government, NOT a national government. Disregarding this, Congress under President Jimmy "Maylaise" Carter, passed the The National Maximum Speed Law. Later, the benevolent Congress modified the law in 1987 to allow 65 mph (105 km/h) limits on certain roads. The law was never really obeyed by drivers, and it was even disregarded by most states which used tactics ranging from gaining exemptions from it, to minimizing speeding fines, and outright refusal to enforce the law. It was one of the most widely ignored laws since prohibition. In 1995, the law was repealed, returning the power of setting speed limits to the states.Bottom line is when the people and the states nullify, Congress generally complies. It may take 25 years, but they get around to acknowledging the will of the people, and at least paying lip service to the Constitution. If states up the ante, Congress will have no choice but to repeal, and alter the unConstitutional laws, and provisions of laws to comply with US, not the other way around.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Feb 25, 2011 14:45:51 GMT -5
I certainly hope the people who are voting will look at the big picture and not allow themselves to be swayed by one, or two issues. There are, IMO, some pretty frightening ideas batting about out there! For example?
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Feb 25, 2011 15:04:20 GMT -5
HELENA, Mont. — With each new bill, newly elected lawmakers from the loose-knit, largely conservative anti-tax tea party coalition are offering Montanans a vision of the future. Their state would be a place where officials can ignore U.S. laws, Officials have been ignoring US laws along the southern border for years...under both dem and repub majorities in congress as well as dem and repub white house. In fact, when AZ tried to enforce them, they were sued by the federal government to prevent the stricter enforcement of US laws. What does this have to do with the Tea Party? Since these were not part of the Tea Party platform, what does this have to do with the Tea Party? I don't remember hearing about any criticism for the attempt CA made to nullify federal drug laws. As a matter of fact, a lot of posters here approved of the attempt.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 25, 2011 15:08:18 GMT -5
I think it is funny that some people are so certain that the Feds know what is best for them. Lots of disruption in November. Maybe people should start moving around, trying to find states that better suit their personal and business needs and wants. Oh, wait, they are already doing that. Arizona, by majority vote, seems to know what is best for Arizona. The Feds disagree. It's a LONG way from Washington to Arizona or Montana. I'm all for letting the majority of the citizens in a state have their say. Christian Exodus: Mass movement to South Carolina and later Idaho. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_ExodusFree State Project: Move to New Hampshire to turn it into a libertarian state. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_State_Project
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Feb 25, 2011 15:12:10 GMT -5
Some residents, Democratic Gov. Brian Schweitzer and even some Republican lawmakers say the bills are making Montana into a laughingstock. And, they say, the push to nullify federal laws could be dangerous. "We are the United States of America," said Schweitzer. "This talk of nullifying is pretty toxic talk. That led to the Civil War."
Also in the same article Backers of nullification say they can get the federal government to back down off a law if enough states band together against it.
They point to the REAL ID act — a Bush-era plan to assert federal control over state identifications as a way to combat terrorism. The law has been put in limbo after 25 states adopted legislation opposing it. Did everybody also have a problem with nullification when it was used to block Bush's RealID Act?
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Feb 25, 2011 15:16:09 GMT -5
This was done during the oil crisis in an effort to lower our national oil consumption. Considering the oil crisis was a national problem, it makes sense the they would try to solve it on a national level. Even nowadays don't we hear people ranting - asking what the federal govt plans to do to lower gas prices. Certain problems need to be solved (and are generally expected to be solved) at a federal level.
The problem with this solution was that the people who made the decisions didn't understand driver's behavior. It didn't work because ultimately people drive at the speed at which feels comfortable.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Feb 25, 2011 15:34:16 GMT -5
I certainly hope the people who are voting will look at the big picture and not allow themselves to be swayed by one, or two issues. There are, IMO, some pretty frightening ideas batting about out there! For example? Oh, let's see ... Racism and bigotry Advocating gun violence Balance the budget but don't!! raise taxes (deja vu, anyone?) Marginalization of women There are more, but I'll be blamed if I'll sit here and list them all. Frankly, it's boring. I'm pretty apolitical anyway, and I don't enjoy arguing just for the kick of it. No kick in it for me.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2011 15:49:27 GMT -5
Cut WIC, cut Head Start, cut Planned Parenthood, go back to a standard of 'utmost resistance, make women prove they weren't at fault for 'causing' a miscarriage, make it legal to kill abortion doctors, remove consumer protections, environmental protections, defund new finance reforms, destroy collective bargaining, all while spending MORE for defense and giving corporations MORE tax breaks... etc. etc..
I hope people are reading the details of efforts being enacted/ bounced around by all the new 'improved' elected ...
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Feb 25, 2011 15:52:22 GMT -5
Oh, let's see ... Racism and bigotry Advocating gun violence Balance the budget but don't!! raise taxes (deja vu, anyone?) Marginalization of women There are more, but I'll be blamed if I'll sit here and list them all. Frankly, it's boring. I'm pretty apolitical anyway, and I don't enjoy arguing just for the kick of it. No kick in it for me. For example? Please state the proposal, the name and position of the public official proposing it, and at least one supporter in a position to advance such proposals. The fact is you're bailing because you don't have one specific, credible example of what you're talking about. You'd rather execute a drive-by, bomb-thrower post and jet outta here. Don't let the door hit ya...
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Feb 25, 2011 15:53:42 GMT -5
Cut WIC, cut Head Start, cut Planned Parenthood, go back to a standard of 'utmost resistance, make women prove they weren't at fault for 'causing' a miscarriage, make it legal to kill abortion doctors, remove consumer protections, environmental protections, defund new finance reforms, destroy collective bargaining, all while spending MORE for defense and giving corporations MORE tax breaks... etc. etc.. I hope people are reading the details of efforts being enacted/ bounced around by all the new 'improved' elected ... Why don't you post the details? Thems a lot 'o fancy words you posted up there, please identify the bills you're referncing?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2011 16:38:22 GMT -5
The current republican budget efforts defund planned parenthood, cut WIC directly, and cut ag, which will further cut WIC, and they cut Head Start, they also defund the people who are supposed to implement the new consumer protections, and the people who are supposed to implement the new financial reforms, and the people who are supposed to make sure that federal loan money doesn't go to private schools that are selling a false bill of goods, it also cuts pell grants, among other thing (like low income heat subsidies, public broadcasting and national endowment for arts), and defund net neutrality. It is not about budget cuts... its ALL about political agenda... www.nationaljournal.com/house-gop-proposes-cuts-to-scores-of-sacred-cows-20110209The 'utmost resistance' thing was the new effort to remake Hyde ammendment into a nonrenewable bill... at first they wanted to differentiate between 'forced rape' and I don't know... what other kind of rape there is? but they did drop that language... though i can see where their thinking is... www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20030557-503544.htmlThe miscarriage thing is a Georgia bill... motherjones.com/blue-marble/2011/02/miscarriage-death-penalty-georgia#The abortion provider thing was a South Dakota bill.. they have cleaned up the langauge there somewhat as well... but not much... www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/15/AR2011021506502.htmlWhat else do you want details on paul?
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Feb 25, 2011 16:45:04 GMT -5
Oh, let's see ... Racism and bigotry Advocating gun violence Balance the budget but don't!! raise taxes (deja vu, anyone?) Marginalization of women There are more, but I'll be blamed if I'll sit here and list them all. Frankly, it's boring. I'm pretty apolitical anyway, and I don't enjoy arguing just for the kick of it. No kick in it for me. For example? Please state the proposal, the name and position of the public official proposing it, and at least one supporter in a position to advance such proposals. The fact is you're bailing because you don't have one specific, credible example of what you're talking about. You'd rather execute a drive-by, bomb-thrower post and jet outta here. Don't let the door hit ya... Heh. Whatever you say, hotshot. As I said, I'm apolitical. Another funny thing about me ... I can't be incited, and I can't be trolled. So, do yer thang, sistah! ;D
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Feb 25, 2011 16:49:23 GMT -5
The Hyde Amendment precedes the TEA Party. I don't recall an America living in fear of the Hyde Amendment for the last 30 years. Why is there something especially 'scary' about it now?
The rape thing I disagree with, but I understand where they are coming from. It was simply a misguided (mostly politically misguided- their hearts are in the right place) attempt to prevent fraudulent claims of rape-- which necessarily report a crime-- for no other reason than a woman wants an aborition-- and which could result in another person being falsely accused, charged, and sentence for rape.
And what mother jones calls "woman hating craziness" is a step to protect unborn women from being murdered in the womb. I know it might surprise some of you to learn that there are those of us who are just as shocked and alarmed by the "baby hating craziness" out there as the "woman hating craziness" out there- with the exception that we don't advocate for the murder of women the way pro-abortion types advocate for the murder of babies. Call me scary, but I happen to agree with this one, and I applaud the efforts to extend the protection of law to all people, including those as yet unborn.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Feb 25, 2011 16:51:16 GMT -5
And cutting WIC and Head Start are true disappointments. After nearly five decades of failure, the two programs should be in for major overhauls, and potentially on the chopping block for elimination.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2011 16:56:56 GMT -5
I don't mind the Hyde ammendment... the new bill is to replace it (mostly to make it so that it doesn't have to be reauthorized)... the problem was is they wanted to designate 'forcable rape'... ie. class rape, and discuss which is you know the 'bad' kind, and which is not so bad... basically... a return to the utmost resistance way of thinking...
Paul... abortion is legal. Inch long fetuses that cannot function on their own are not people... i'm not going that round again...
WIC and Head Start are not failures... I would love to see your data that tries to prove that they are... Feeding children, giving them early intervention...
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Post by Loopdilou on Feb 25, 2011 17:04:31 GMT -5
I'm immensely grateful for WIC. Everyone in the lower ranks of the military qualifies for it, thank goodness.
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