tloonya
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Post by tloonya on Apr 9, 2014 14:18:18 GMT -5
I didn't think I need to say anything because we were talking from the beginning here about people who are abusing system. No one ever said people with disabilities will have to be cut! More even...if those able moochers were taken off - all who is eligible by health or anything else could probably benefit more because new rehabilitation programs could be financed etc. or in legit poor families kids would get better free meal plans etc. that is what I think we were up to here...sorry if you felt hurt. Actually at least one poster said that the program should be abolished. My point is that when we focus on the few who do abuse the system, we forget that there are many many people who do need the program and do not abuse it. When we spend pages and pages on a thread about the abusers, people start thinking that all the program does is feed the jerks who don't need it and they start calling for an end to the program. I'm just attempting to add some perspective. My feelings are not important. But my granddaughter's well being (as well as that of other disabled people) are important. I know, it had been said. I wish there was a better way (like neighbors and friends request) to establish eligibility of those who are not visibly in need. Trust me when I see those young moms with WIC checks who are walking around yawning and commenting 'I don't neeeed anythiiing'... and I said 'so return your checks to the WIC office and they will give it to people in need'. They jump! And I am thinking why? If you don't need anything - give it up!!! But free stuff is hard to give up even when you don't need anything. Makes me sick!
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toomuchreality
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Post by toomuchreality on Apr 10, 2014 5:30:21 GMT -5
So if a person is willing to eat ramen noodles for a week, in order to have enough $ on their card for a more expensive item one day, would you consider that wrong? (I don't mean healthy)
I seriously want to know.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Apr 10, 2014 5:41:07 GMT -5
There is little to no effort to weed out the fraud. And yeah if you are walking around able bodied and young then get off your arse and get a job. And people have a right to negatively judge you. If you do not want to Be judged then pay your own damn bills.
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tloonya
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Post by tloonya on Apr 10, 2014 13:51:30 GMT -5
So if a person is willing to eat ramen noodles for a week, in order to have enough $ on their card for a more expensive item one day, would you consider that wrong? (I don't mean healthy) I seriously want to know. You can actually buy a lobster...and make lobster bisque that will last you for a week...there is way to have lobster on SNAP. I don't think anyone will say it is wrong because no one would believe that some one eats noodles all week to buy a lobster... People capable of noodling aren't the people to splurge on things.
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mollyanna58
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Post by mollyanna58 on Apr 10, 2014 14:08:03 GMT -5
You can actually buy a lobster...and make lobster bisque that will last you for a week...there is way to have lobster on SNAP. I don't think anyone will say it is wrong because no one would believe that some one eats noodles all week to buy a lobster... People capable of noodling aren't the people to splurge on things. That's an interesting point. Many people will not give up anything to save for something else. But I can see a parent cutting back a bit in order to afford to buy a birthday cake and ice cream.
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tloonya
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Post by tloonya on Apr 10, 2014 14:11:24 GMT -5
You can actually buy a lobster...and make lobster bisque that will last you for a week...there is way to have lobster on SNAP. I don't think anyone will say it is wrong because no one would believe that some one eats noodles all week to buy a lobster... People capable of noodling aren't the people to splurge on things. That's an interesting point. Many people will not give up anything to save for something else. But I can see a parent cutting back a bit in order to afford to buy a birthday cake and ice cream. Yep, agree, definitely. However looking at their WALMART asses I sometimes doubting it...
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Apr 10, 2014 17:17:21 GMT -5
I am beginning to think that I really don't care what people buy with food stamps. I don't want them used for booze, cigarettes or lottery tickets. I think I'm ok with limiting certain things, like 2 bags of chips a month or 1 case of soda. Or even # of kids in household = # of happy meals per month. I don't think adult means at fast food places should be covered though (I have issues, I know) I'm ok with the rotisserie chicken covered too. God knows DH's offer to pick one up last night saved us from McD's (it wasn't a good evening in my house...) Yes, I have seen that they are a fairly good choice for a "fast meal" FYI-Sam's club Rotisserie chickens are better than Pick n' Save's. Hope things are going better for you. I was laughing to myself last weekend b/c you positive thinking apparently held off the snow.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Apr 11, 2014 8:06:50 GMT -5
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tloonya
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Post by tloonya on Apr 11, 2014 10:12:27 GMT -5
One more thing came to my mind. Why people on wealfare buying cooked food anyway? I am working my ass off and I am still managing to cook from scratch 5-6 days a week. Are they too busy to cook?
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mollyanna58
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Post by mollyanna58 on Apr 11, 2014 11:28:51 GMT -5
Some people live in single rooms, or motel rooms, without cooking facilities.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2014 19:23:29 GMT -5
So, who fed the disabled, the unwed mothers, and the poor when there was no welfare and food stamps? They didn't just die in the streets and it isn't like disabled just happened overnight. As far as unwed, well, they used to give those babies up for adoption if they couldn't get married or support them but that's no longer an option because we support those behaviors/choices. I remember when families supported their families so it isn't like we always relied on the govt tit to survive. I think when we made it easy to make poor decisions and reap no consequences for them, you get system abuse. It makes those who truly need it get whatever is left over from the thieves who steal it from the workers to begin with. Yup, I'm for ending food stamps unless you are physically or mentally or both disabled. You choose to pop out a kid? Best choose to feed it then. Or give it to those who will. It's frightening to now see a new generation having babies out of wedlock because marriage would cause them to lose bennies. So you can live with baby daddy and qualify for all kinds of stuff whereas if you get married and have children, you not only don't qualify for jack shit, you get to pay taxes to support those who figured out the system and are gaming it. I'm all for getting that fake marriage license and qualifying for free college or lots of financial aid. That's much better than me working 3 jobs to support my kids and help them with college. How do you know that no one died? From what I remember from my history classes, the reason we have SNAP is because of children being underfed, and unhealthy and because of the elderly or very young dying early because of lack of food.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2014 20:11:17 GMT -5
Source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supplemental_Nutrition_Assistance_ProgramI find this part interesting: "Pilot Food Stamp Program (1961–1964) The eighteen years between the end of the first FSP and the inception of the next were filled with studies, reports, and legislative proposals. Prominent U.S. Senators actively associated with attempts to enact a food stamp program during this period included George Aiken, Robert M. La Follette, Jr., Hubert Humphrey, Estes Kefauver, and Stuart Symington. From 1954 on, U.S. Representative Leonor Sullivan strove to pass food-stamp-program legislation. On September 21, 1959, P.L. 86-341 authorized the Secretary of Agriculture to operate a food-stamp system through January 31, 1962. The Eisenhower Administration never used the authority. However, in fulfillment of a campaign promise made in West Virginia, President John F. Kennedy's first Executive Order called for expanded food distribution and, on February 2, 1961, he announced that food stamp pilot programs would be initiated. The pilot programs would retain the requirement that the food stamps be purchased, but eliminated the concept of special stamps for surplus foods. A Department spokesman indicated the emphasis would be on increasing the consumption of perishables. Mr. and Mrs. Alderson Muncy of Paynesville, West Virginia, were the first food stamp recipients on May 29, 1961. They purchased $95 worth of food using food stamps for their 15-person household. In the first food stamp transaction, the Muncys bought a can of pork and beans at Henderson's Supermarket. By January 1964, the pilot programs had expanded from eight areas to 43 (40 counties, Detroit, Michigan, St. Louis, Missouri, and Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania) in 22 States with 380,000 participants."
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Apr 13, 2014 7:06:52 GMT -5
Well, I'm sorry, if you're able bodied, you have zero business getting food stamps. It should be for the elderly who haven't planned well for retirement and can no longer work and feed themselves and the mentally/physically handicapped. If we stopped wasting welfare on those that make poor choices in life, we would have money to care for those who are unable to care for themselves. Yes, I also agree with stop funding the worlds police force but we have created a generation of takers not givers and we cannot afford this nonsense. It needs to end, once and for all.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2014 7:37:33 GMT -5
It is for the children...
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mollyanna58
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Post by mollyanna58 on Apr 13, 2014 7:51:46 GMT -5
Some able bodied people need help making ends meet. I have no problem with the working poor or someone who's fallen on hard times who need assistance. I do have a problem with the small percentage of people who live cradle-to-grave on government assistance for housing, food, and medical.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2014 7:59:43 GMT -5
Yes, many food stamp actually go to people who do work...
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nutty
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Post by nutty on Apr 13, 2014 9:55:27 GMT -5
Awww man, my DD is able bodied and gets food stamps....Zib must dislike my DD so much.....<sad face>
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Apr 13, 2014 14:59:17 GMT -5
I dislike a system that rewards her for having a baby she can't support, let alone support herself. But it's a learned behavior.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2014 15:02:30 GMT -5
So the baby should starve cause the mom had her at the wrong time? Who does that benefit?
The daughter should staty working at Mcdonalds for the rest of her life and continue to recieve benefits from the system wihtout earning enough to pay taxes... rather than spend a few years getting benefits while she gets a degree that will enable her to get out and be a self supporting, and even more important, tax paying citizens?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2014 15:03:19 GMT -5
What is your solution zib... beyond tying everyone's legs together at birth until they are, in your estimation, ready and able to support a kid 'on their own'...
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Apr 13, 2014 15:38:42 GMT -5
Well, I'm sorry, if you're able bodied, you have zero business getting food stamps. It should be for the elderly who haven't planned well for retirement and can no longer work and feed themselves and the mentally/physically handicapped. If we stopped wasting welfare on those that make poor choices in life, we would have money to care for those who are unable to care for themselves. Yes, I also agree with stop funding the worlds police force but we have created a generation of takers not givers and we cannot afford this nonsense. It needs to end, once and for all. I benefitted from food stamps back in the 60's after divorcing a mentally ill, abusive man (no, I did not know he was mentally ill when I married him, nor when I had children by him). Not having a magic crystal ball, I could not see the future when I had my kids. Before food stamps, I was feeding my kids pancakes on the evenings before payday because that's all I could afford. I swallowed my pride and applied. It meant I was able to give them real meals instead of pancakes. It ended when I got a promotion. I don't really understand the vitriol towards those who are really poor. I don't begrudge them a little help and I'd rather see children have decent meals instead of pancakes. I'd rather be paying taxes than be on the receiving end because I've been there and it's no piece of cake.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Apr 13, 2014 15:51:07 GMT -5
What is your solution zib... beyond tying everyone's legs together at birth until they are, in your estimation, ready and able to support a kid 'on their own'... I understand your remark was tongue-in-cheek, oped, but it IS part of the problem. People treat the concept of waiting to have children until you can support them yourselves as some kind of a joke. It's not a joke. It's a solution to a major part of the problem. Why is it so incomprehensible and downright funny to expect people to do the right thing? I don't want kids to go hungry. The thought hurts my heart. But the fact of the matter is until we stop rewarding people for irresponsible behavior, nothing will change. I don't know what the answer is and I'm not smart enough to figure it out. Maybe spend those dollars on some type of community center where the adults can bring the children to eat their meals. If people can find a way to the store, they can find a way to a community center. Nothing in the way of money is given to them. I don't know. I just know what we are doing isn't working.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Apr 13, 2014 15:55:05 GMT -5
Awww man, my DD is able bodied and gets food stamps....Zib must dislike my DD so much.....<sad face> I don't think anyone dislikes your daughter. I think people dislike the fact that she was completely irresponsible and created a baby she can't support without digging in to our pockets. There is a difference. Let me ask you. Do you think it's ok for your daughter to create children she has to dig into my pocket to support? Do you think it's ok for the teenager down the road to create a baby and expect you to pay for it? That's what people dislike...not your daughter or your beautiful grandbaby.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Apr 13, 2014 15:57:23 GMT -5
Well, I'm sorry, if you're able bodied, you have zero business getting food stamps. It should be for the elderly who haven't planned well for retirement and can no longer work and feed themselves and the mentally/physically handicapped. If we stopped wasting welfare on those that make poor choices in life, we would have money to care for those who are unable to care for themselves. Yes, I also agree with stop funding the worlds police force but we have created a generation of takers not givers and we cannot afford this nonsense. It needs to end, once and for all. I benefitted from food stamps back in the 60's after divorcing a mentally ill, abusive man (no, I did not know he was mentally ill when I married him, nor when I had children by him). Not having a magic crystal ball, I could not see the future when I had my kids. Before food stamps, I was feeding my kids pancakes on the evenings before payday because that's all I could afford. I swallowed my pride and applied. It meant I was able to give them real meals instead of pancakes. It ended when I got a promotion. I don't really understand the vitriol towards those who are really poor. I don't begrudge them a little help and I'd rather see children have decent meals instead of pancakes. I'd rather be paying taxes than be on the receiving end because I've been there and it's no piece of cake. Your situation was one that I don't think anyone has issues with. You used the system for what it is designed for - temporary help. You didn't make government hand-outs your career.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2014 16:05:12 GMT -5
Well, I'm sorry, if you're able bodied, you have zero business getting food stamps. It should be for the elderly who haven't planned well for retirement and can no longer work and feed themselves and the mentally/physically handicapped. If we stopped wasting welfare on those that make poor choices in life, we would have money to care for those who are unable to care for themselves. Yes, I also agree with stop funding the worlds police force but we have created a generation of takers not givers and we cannot afford this nonsense. It needs to end, once and for all. So why is it ok for someone who did not plan well for retirement (maybe even retired early) to get them, but not a young parent who by getting them is able to feed his or her children, which allow the child to do better in school and maybe he or she can take that help and get ahead instead of going to be starving.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2014 16:06:38 GMT -5
I benefitted from food stamps back in the 60's after divorcing a mentally ill, abusive man (no, I did not know he was mentally ill when I married him, nor when I had children by him). Not having a magic crystal ball, I could not see the future when I had my kids. Before food stamps, I was feeding my kids pancakes on the evenings before payday because that's all I could afford. I swallowed my pride and applied. It meant I was able to give them real meals instead of pancakes. It ended when I got a promotion. I don't really understand the vitriol towards those who are really poor. I don't begrudge them a little help and I'd rather see children have decent meals instead of pancakes. I'd rather be paying taxes than be on the receiving end because I've been there and it's no piece of cake. Your situation was one that I don't think anyone has issues with. You used the system for what it is designed for - temporary help. You didn't make government hand-outs your career. But that is what the majority does, so why blame the majority for the few that do so?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2014 16:27:18 GMT -5
Green eyed lady... You can't curtail someone's personal freedom and fertility choice... Unless you want to control everyone's. You really want someone else making those decisions on fitness and 'enough' for you? Who would you like to see make these qualitative judgements on 'fitness'? ...
And nd then, as you can't control others reproduction... The children are here. They are our citizens. At that point do we abandon them because of their parents decisions?
The he idea that, before our current social system, no one got pregnant unless they were 'able to support it' is ludicrous, as any study of historical fact will show...
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Malarky
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Post by Malarky on Apr 13, 2014 16:28:01 GMT -5
Well, I'm sorry, if you're able bodied, you have zero business getting food stamps. It should be for the elderly who haven't planned well for retirement and can no longer work and feed themselves and the mentally/physically handicapped. If we stopped wasting welfare on those that make poor choices in life, we would have money to care for those who are unable to care for themselves. Yes, I also agree with stop funding the worlds police force but we have created a generation of takers not givers and we cannot afford this nonsense. It needs to end, once and for all. I benefitted from food stamps back in the 60's after divorcing a mentally ill, abusive man (no, I did not know he was mentally ill when I married him, nor when I had children by him). Not having a magic crystal ball, I could not see the future when I had my kids. Before food stamps, I was feeding my kids pancakes on the evenings before payday because that's all I could afford. I swallowed my pride and applied. It meant I was able to give them real meals instead of pancakes. It ended when I got a promotion. I don't really understand the vitriol towards those who are really poor. I don't begrudge them a little help and I'd rather see children have decent meals instead of pancakes. I'd rather be paying taxes than be on the receiving end because I've been there and it's no piece of cake.
I don't remember where I got the following phrase, I saw it somewhere and it answered the question that GG asks about why we get so angry.
"the reduced value of one's work compared to those that are "supported," is the source of so many people’s rage against welfare recipients."
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Apr 13, 2014 16:30:15 GMT -5
That's not what the majority does at all. I'm sure things are different in other parts of the country - no question - and I'm not speaking for anywhere else other than where I live. The majority of the people here who are on food stamps make a career of government assistance and then pass that on down to their children who then make a career out of it. Maybe it's different where you live and I honestly hope my area is the exception. But to say the majority of people accept assistance on a temporary basis just isn't true here.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Apr 13, 2014 16:31:45 GMT -5
Green eyed lady... You can't curtail someone's personal freedom and fertility choice... Unless you want to control everyone's. You really want someone else making those decisions on fitness and 'enough' for you? Who would you like to see make these qualitative judgements on 'fitness'? ... And nd then, as you can't control others reproduction... The children are here. They are our citizens. At that point do we abandon them because of their parents decisions? The he idea that, before our current social system, no one got pregnant unless they were 'able to support it' is ludicrous, as any study of historical fact will show... Agreed, oped. Absolutely you can't curtail someone's personal freedom....nor do I want to...but you don't have to legislate paying for it. I don't care if people have 40 kids as long as I don't have to support them. I don't want them abandoned. I want a better solution. (all the "you" means the general "you")
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