NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Apr 7, 2014 14:21:56 GMT -5
I am going to disagree with most of you and say that it was actually a good idea to have Nathaniel read this thread and his response was indeed quite mature for a 17yo.
My reason for this statement (boy am I ever getting formal here) is that Les was in absolute agreement with Nathaniel about getting a tattoo. By reading this thread Nathaniel got a small look at what reactions to his tattoo outside his direct circle might be like. I especially liked your responses to him when you told him something along the lines of "yes I have one, but make sure you can cover it up if needed" from Swamp amd others. JMO.
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Blonde Granny
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Post by Blonde Granny on Apr 7, 2014 14:28:00 GMT -5
Shaun is right, but let me go one step further...and since I'm an old woman who is a grandmother, I reserve the right to say what I think:
You are very young, but I realize at 17 you know all there is to know, you see, I was the same way back then. You may not like it, but a lot of people in this world look at a young man with a weird haircut, face piercing and earlobe things, dressed in strange way, maybe even with pants waistbands around your knees and roll their eyes and laugh.
They don't see you as some wanna be rock musician, they just simply see you as weird. If you make it to stardom, oh, maybe like Kiss or some other rock groups, how many tats, piercing and the way you dress will be overlooked. But today, no....you'll always have people rolling their eyes and laughing.
If you have to go out into the real world and find a real job, one that pays more than McDonalds, you will be expected to act & look like a competent adult. The picture you are presenting now is not that person.
It's wonderful to attempt to follow a dream and I applaud you for that. It's just that some decisions made in the hurry to be an adult and be cool, can come back to haunt you.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Apr 7, 2014 14:30:54 GMT -5
Speaking only for myself, it was not the fact that it was a 17yo boy, it was the fact that it was the person being discussed in the thread. None of the OP's posts indicated that her son knew about this thread or was involved in any way other than to be drawn in as a "ha ha - told you so" after most posters disagreed with the OP.
I'm guessing some of the people who have taken potshots at Mrs. C. would be a little upset if Cawaiu turned over his account to her to start posting. I'm also guessing that even though Dark lets his daughters read here, he kept them away from the threads about his marriage. I could be wrong.
This thread was pretty tame, and no one personally insulted Nathaniel or anything like that - but it still seems to me like a major lapse in judgment. I can see how it could have been useful for him to get another perspective, but that could have been accomplished in a different way.
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greeniis10
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Post by greeniis10 on Apr 7, 2014 14:40:32 GMT -5
"I'm guessing some of the people who have taken potshots at Mrs. C. would be a little upset if Cawaiu turned over his account to her to start posting. I'm also guessing that even though Dark lets his daughters read here, he kept them away from the threads about his marriage. I could be wrong."
I agree. I see what you're saying. But for me personally, that makes me NOT take any potshots at people because you just don't know who shares what with whom, or who leaves their computer signed on and someone else sees it accidentally, etc. I guess I just tend to post as if everyone (including the person being spoken about) can see my posts.
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milee
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Apr 7, 2014 14:40:33 GMT -5
Post by milee on Apr 7, 2014 14:40:33 GMT -5
Context and background is also important in these discussions. When bringing a minor into a thread like this without any knowledge of prior threads or the tendencies of other posters, some major misperceptions are likely. If I were to bring my son (my oldest is 14) into a thread, I'd want to help him understand what other threads I'd been involved with and how those discussions had gone to explain some of the references. I'd also think it was very important to give background on what I knew of the other posters so he could have more information on what opinions might be more applicable, what might just be jokes, what might be from people who are reasonable and what might sound appealing on the face of it but be from a poster he would not want to emulate. Example:
Jane Doe - enjoys joking around. Mostly innocuous and not mean spirited, but not at all serious. If she says "go for it - it's brilliant!" she's not actually recommending this idea, she's joking. John Doe - $hit stirrer. Posts just to incite reactions. Likes to argue so takes Devil's Advocate approach just for kicks. Jane Smith - Successful professional who's had her own wild days and figured out how to have fun without that fun ruining her career or family. Usually gives solid advice. John Smith - Good writer so his posts are appealing, but often posts about how out of control his personal/financial life is, so although it's tempting to follow his amusing or encouraging advice, you have to wonder why someone who's a mess would be the one to listen to. Jane Jones - Usually gives good advice and is smart, but doesn't understand this topic at all. Is from a different generation and way different environment. John Jones - Was a hiring manager for many years in different industries so understands what is and isn't an issue. Compassionate and reasonable.
I'm trying to help my boys develop the ability to not only analyze information but how important it is to consider the source. General threads like this one have very different meanings if you know nothing about any of the people giving the advice.
How do we know Les didn't do this? Maybe she's shared background and posters comments before? IDK, I find it surprising that it is assumed that the only person seeing the posts on this board is the one doing the posting. There's no rule about that (that I know of). Anybody can have someone looking over their shoulder and reading at any time. Guess it's the fact that it was a 17 yr old boy? Well, personally it doesn't seem like a big deal to me. But assuming when she shared the posts with her son that she didn't provide any supporting information or explanations isn't fair to Les. I have no idea if Les did that or not, nor do I assume anything about her. If you'll re-read my post, you'll see that all I am doing is sharing how I would handle a similar situation, not commenting on how Les did (or didn't - no way to know.)
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Sum Dum Gai
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Apr 7, 2014 15:47:09 GMT -5
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Apr 7, 2014 15:47:09 GMT -5
I don't so much let my daughters read here as I found out they were reading here when they started asking me about things that had been posted. I probably left the boards open in a tab on the living room computer and they poked around when they found it. They mostly use the see all posts made by a specific poster and read what I've written. There are very few threads they actually read from beginning to end. Makes no sense to me because it's a bit like listening to only one participant in a conference call when you can't hear anyone else.
You're all posting in a totally public board. Anything you write can be read by anyone.
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nutty
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Apr 7, 2014 17:47:50 GMT -5
Post by nutty on Apr 7, 2014 17:47:50 GMT -5
What a great man Nathaniel sounds like, I agree with Dark, please reconsider the placing of the ink.
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zibazinski
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Apr 7, 2014 18:26:51 GMT -5
Post by zibazinski on Apr 7, 2014 18:26:51 GMT -5
This is Nathaniel, took my time reading over the 6 pages of replies. I'll start by saying, if you honestly think I'm doomed because I will have a nice colorful ribbon, a 4 letter name written in some form of cursive above it...that's weird. My ears are 3/4's of an inch, I have a lip ring. I don't dress like any of the kids at my school. I have my head shaved on the sides and back, the top is long and slicked back. Haha what does that tell you about me? I understand that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but honestly it's not that big of a deal. I go to a great school and lots of my teachers have tattoos that are visible. My art teacher is covered in them. I do plan on more, and I have no plans for college, say what you will. Music is my thing, I'm lucky enough to be in a band with people that have toured and who are very talented musicians. It's not a tattoo that you would frown upon. And just so the rest of you know, they are not called gauges. They're know as stretched ears, plugs, or tunnels. A gauge is a size, so you'd refer to the size when you'd use the word, such as 10G or 8G. Like I said I'm at 3/4th's, so my life is already doomed. ? Good lord, I just caught up on this thread. I can't believe it.
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zibazinski
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Apr 7, 2014 18:29:11 GMT -5
Post by zibazinski on Apr 7, 2014 18:29:11 GMT -5
But I do find it a bit amusing that I just watched a documentary on how single moms live paycheck to paycheck but the women they portrayed had tats all over and cell phones. But were living with boyfriends or in dumps.
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constanz22
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Post by constanz22 on Apr 10, 2014 9:33:05 GMT -5
This is Nathaniel, took my time reading over the 6 pages of replies. I'll start by saying, if you honestly think I'm doomed because I will have a nice colorful ribbon, a 4 letter name written in some form of cursive above it...that's weird. My ears are 3/4's of an inch, I have a lip ring. I don't dress like any of the kids at my school. I have my head shaved on the sides and back, the top is long and slicked back. Haha what does that tell you about me? I understand that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but honestly it's not that big of a deal. I go to a great school and lots of my teachers have tattoos that are visible. My art teacher is covered in them. I do plan on more, and I have no plans for college, say what you will. Music is my thing, I'm lucky enough to be in a band with people that have toured and who are very talented musicians. It's not a tattoo that you would frown upon. And just so the rest of you know, they are not called gauges. They're know as stretched ears, plugs, or tunnels. A gauge is a size, so you'd refer to the size when you'd use the word, such as 10G or 8G. Like I said I'm at 3/4th's, so my life is already doomed. ? Nathaniel, I hope you read this or that your mom passes along the info to you. I live in the same general area you do. I work in the city your school is in. My niece attends the same high school. Would you mind sharing the name of your band? I have a lot of friends and relatives in area bands and am pretty up on the local band/music scene. Just curious if you actually play out and have paying gigs. I think you do appear to be a mature and well-spoken young man. However, I just want to point out a few things from MY experience with "musicians". I get it, music is your life. The one's I know, music is their life and their calling. Having said that, the percentage of good musicians that ever make it big is incredibly small. What will you have to fall back on to support yourself, and one day, a family? I have been friends with a lot of local musicians for 20 years. I am 44. Many of these guys are also now in their mid 40's, have been gigging in local bars for 25 years. Many are extremely talented, but were not able to "make a living" playing music. Many of them have done little to further their position in life because "music is their thing". And knowing some of them well, I get it. I do. But gigging in dive bars at 45, and working jobs barely making minimum wage so you can focus on music, just seems kind of sad to me. Work on your music, but please have a "career" back up plan. Okay, that's my 2 cents.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2014 9:38:40 GMT -5
XBIL went to Berklee. He is an extremely talented musician and even he has a day job to pay the bills (child support and alimony mostly!!! ). Besides, the kid is getting a tattoo on his arm, not his face! I think he will be employable even with the ink. And on a related note, mine has been scheduled for 6/13!!!!
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michelyn8
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Post by michelyn8 on Apr 10, 2014 10:23:24 GMT -5
I got my first tat about 6 weeks ago and told my kids it was my mid-life crisis. Its on the left side of my stomach just above my hip. It ended up a little higher than I wanted but that's no biggie to me. I fretted for a long time about where to put it and then I decided on there. Its a place that is easily covered for work and that no one else will see unless you see me undressed. And to make it even more special, it was done by my son's father (and first love).
Its not that I want it hidden from view but more that I got it for me, not to share with the world. I smile whenever I look at it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2014 10:27:32 GMT -5
Congratulations! That's how I feel about mine -- I don't care if people don't like it. I am getting it for me and I think it's the bee's knees.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Apr 10, 2014 11:54:33 GMT -5
I live in a city with tons of tattoos as well... I see them all the time when I go out on the weekends. I see people in restaurants, the movies, etc. with tattoos. Do you know where I DON'T see them - at anything professional/business related . I don't see them at professional conferences, or on sales reps from the various industries I work with, on clients that drop by my office just to say hello, on any of my companies board members, etc. and in my particular profession I come in contact with people of various ages. Some may not want to face it but looks DO matter. It is no different than the person swamp was talking about showing up at a job fair in sweatpants!! Professionalism matters. You may not WANT it to matter but it DOES!
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Deleted
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Apr 10, 2014 11:58:49 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2014 11:58:49 GMT -5
If he is wearing a shirt and tie how would you know that he has a tattoo on his forearm?
ETA: and if I wear pants or socks on June 14th you won't know that I have a tattoo on my ankle. One can have a tattoo and still look professional; as long as they basically stay away from their face and their hands.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Apr 10, 2014 12:10:42 GMT -5
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Apr 10, 2014 12:10:42 GMT -5
If he is wearing a shirt and tie how would you know that he has a tattoo on his forearm? ETA: and if I wear pants or socks on June 14th you won't know that I have a tattoo on my ankle. One can have a tattoo and still look professional; as long as they basically stay away from their face and their hands. Around here shirt and tie is usually short sleeved, except in the over 50 crowd. Thus forearm tats are visible, unless you dress like an old guy. That's why I said to put it on his upper arm. Anything on the torso, legs, feet, or upper arms is covered in business and business casual clothes for a guy. Anything on the forearms, hands, neck, or face takes more work or dressing like a weirdo to cover.
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Deleted
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Apr 10, 2014 12:12:08 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2014 12:12:08 GMT -5
Well, then in your area I would suggest against a forearm tattoo. Up here in the Tundra you can get a tattoo almost anywhere and cover it while you're at work.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Apr 10, 2014 12:16:01 GMT -5
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Apr 10, 2014 12:16:01 GMT -5
The kid is 17, he could be living anywhere in a couple years. Wearing long sleeves everyday in Las Vegas will get old hella fast.
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Deleted
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Apr 10, 2014 12:17:49 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2014 12:17:49 GMT -5
Sucks to be him, then.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2014 12:19:52 GMT -5
The kid is 17, he could be living anywhere in a couple years. Wearing long sleeves everyday in Las Vegas will get old hella fast. This. A lady I worked with hid her tattoos under long sleeves as she was asked to. In the summer it was not fun for her to always have to either have a cover up or long sleeves.
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whoami
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Apr 10, 2014 12:25:27 GMT -5
Post by whoami on Apr 10, 2014 12:25:27 GMT -5
IMO, all of this debate just highlights *why he should wait until he's 18 and make his own decision and sign his own paperwork.
I realize that "18" is just a number, but its the number our society has chosen to magically make kids...adults. Let him own the decision, whatever it may be, as an "adult". JMO.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Apr 10, 2014 13:01:20 GMT -5
If he is wearing a shirt and tie how would you know that he has a tattoo on his forearm? ETA: and if I wear pants or socks on June 14th you won't know that I have a tattoo on my ankle. One can have a tattoo and still look professional; as long as they basically stay away from their face and their hands. Well, I am going to be dead honest and say it isn't going to matter one way or another if he already has those gaping holes in his ears... which IMO are way worse than any tattoo ETA: I don't really see the tattoo as THAT big of a deal. He is probably close enough to 18 to make that decision. What I find slightly disturbing is that Les doesn't seem to care if he has any back-up plan in case music doesn't work - and let's face it making it big in the music industry is HARD. How many one hit wonders have you heard? I have heard a lot! How many talented people have you seen on American Idol and The Voice who end up doing zilch? Maybe this kid will make it big and bathe in champagne every night but there is a higher percentage that he might be singing for dollars and doughnuts in dive bars when he is 35. If that's what he wants then fine but if he were my kid I would be encouraging a back-up plan but since I don't have kids I don't count anyway
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zibazinski
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Apr 10, 2014 13:28:51 GMT -5
Post by zibazinski on Apr 10, 2014 13:28:51 GMT -5
Unless you want your kid dependent on you forever.
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Iggy aka IG
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Apr 10, 2014 14:32:57 GMT -5
Post by Iggy aka IG on Apr 10, 2014 14:32:57 GMT -5
The kid is 17, he could be living anywhere in a couple years. Wearing long sleeves everyday in Las Vegas will get old hella fast. This. A lady I worked with hid her tattoos under long sleeves as she was asked to. In the summer it was not fun for her to always have to either have a cover up or long sleeves. Am dealing with it today. It's 70+ outside, and the A/C hasn't yet kicked in here in the office. I have a short sleeve shirt on under my black blazer, and it's getting a bit toasty in here. (Yes, I am the boss, and could choose to let it all hang out, but I don't.) Further, I had an outside sales call at 11 this morning. It was very warm while I was standing outside waiting for my client to show up.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Apr 10, 2014 14:40:51 GMT -5
I could not imagine being forced to wear long sleeves in TX all summer. The high is 85 today and we are only at the beginning of April.
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justme
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Apr 10, 2014 14:59:51 GMT -5
Post by justme on Apr 10, 2014 14:59:51 GMT -5
I'd chime in with a, "Haven't you people ever heard of closing the Goddamn door?!" No, it's much better to face these kinds of things With a sense of poise and rationality.I'd chime in, "Haven't you people ever heard of closing the Goddamn door?!" No, it's much better to face these kinds of things With a sense of... What I want is bolded but it is silly by itself. Panic! at the Disco was the original writers of the song. They were protégés of sort of FoB. Didn't even know FoB covered it...I'm going to have to find their version. And I've seen people do not a full sentence. You could do it in whimsical/script writing with maybe ... at the end or some music notes thrown in. ETA: Someone got to that on the page after I stopped looking for someone to comment. Sorry. But I haven't found the cover yet.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2014 18:01:01 GMT -5
If he is wearing a shirt and tie how would you know that he has a tattoo on his forearm? ETA: and if I wear pants or socks on June 14th you won't know that I have a tattoo on my ankle. One can have a tattoo and still look professional; as long as they basically stay away from their face and their hands. Around here shirt and tie is usually short sleeved, except in the over 50 crowd. Thus forearm tats are visible, unless you dress like an old guy. That's why I said to put it on his upper arm. Anything on the torso, legs, feet, or upper arms is covered in business and business casual clothes for a guy. Anything on the forearms, hands, neck, or face takes more work or dressing like a weirdo to cover. I'd rather someone dress like an old guy (long sleeved shirt and tie) than make a complete fashion faux pas (short sleeved shirt and tie).....
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NastyWoman
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Apr 10, 2014 18:20:52 GMT -5
Post by NastyWoman on Apr 10, 2014 18:20:52 GMT -5
IMO, all of this debate just highlights *why he should wait until he's 18 and make his own decision and sign his own paperwork. I realize that "18" is just a number, but its the number our society has chosen to magically make kids...adults. Let him own the decision, whatever it may be, as an "adult". JMO. No it is not. We do use 18 as the age at which a person can make theirown decisions and until then s/he need parental approval. Nathan has Les' blessing so this is really a debate about whether and where he should have a tattoo. Unless we are deciding that we want to start parenting by YM consensus fgoing forward? Just be careful what you wish for if you (still) have or in the future may have underage offspring. Off course that would mean I get to comment without any repercussion and tell many of you what to do (love it)
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Apr 10, 2014 21:09:31 GMT -5
Honestly you don't see many people in ties out here outside of stodgy professions like banking, law, and insurance. An upper arm tat is still covered by a short sleeve dress shirt, polo, or whatever.
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nutty
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Apr 11, 2014 7:45:22 GMT -5
Post by nutty on Apr 11, 2014 7:45:22 GMT -5
I did not know that FOB covered that song, I really like the poise and rationality but just those two words would be weird I think. Thanks for the info.
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