Nobody goes to jail-

[comokate]

These are not meant as "fighting words". I have my own views regarding the wisdom of average income people investing in the stock market. However, the stock market with it's own inherent risks, took a black eye in reputation from the misdeeds of some very , in my opinion, sociopathic individuals/entities.
Really a good article. While those sociopathic 1% are reveling in getting the masses to begin pointing fingers at each other, let's not forget who it was that caused this mess. Remember the pension plans that invested in AAA rated securities only to find out how meaningless the rating system had become?


"Nobody goes to jail. This is the mantra of the financial-crisis era, one that saw virtually every major bank and financial company on Wall Street embroiled in obscene criminal scandals that impoverished millions and collectively destroyed hundreds of billions, in fact, trillions of dollars of the world's wealth — and nobody went to jail. Nobody, that is, except Bernie Madoff, a flamboyant and pathological celebrity con artist, whose victims happened to be other rich and famous people."

www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/why-isnt-wall-street-in-jail-20110216

And in a similar vein, the "upper class" is found to not engage in the chummier social skills the rest ( hopefully...) of us have. Hmmm, wonder why ? ;-)

www.disinfo.com/2010/11/upper-class-people-have-trouble-recognizing-others-emotions/



^{_{offtopic-do-not-remove:tT2à}}

[comokate]

Feb 24, 2011 0:16:30 GMT -5 @wxyz said:

We have become a nation of whining crybabies.

Lots of people cry when they lose their jobs, pensions, health care insurance and homes. I don't begrudge them for their tears. As I stated in another post, we used to be a nation that cared about each other; not anymore. Thank you for letting me know how you feel-

[robvinchgo]

Comokate,

I am an avid reader, very infrequent poster (just too busy raising a family, working to pays bills, etc.)

I genuinely appreciate your posts as there is no hidden agenda and you appear to approach any/all topics with an unbiased view.

I agree. When we see how many people are able to get away with what they do w/o any consequences, it destroys the fabric/integrity of this country. If people (political/sports people) can cheat against their wives and get away with it, why shouldn't I? If I can get more money even though it will affect other people negatively, why shouldn't I? Who is accountable for the financial mess we are in in Illinois? No-one. It just happened so we have to raise taxes on everyone........

The list goes on and on........everyone man/woman for him/herself until it becomes such a crisis that someone/somewhere will WAKE UP. Hasn't happened yet with the people in office in this country.

[dumdeedoe]

I do find it strange that there were at least 10 major news stories about corruption over the last 3 years involving major banks and fund operators that have been swept under the rug..

[comokate]

Feb 24, 2011 0:36:14 GMT -5 @robvinchgo said:

Comokate,

I am an avid reader, very infrequent poster (just too busy raising a family, working to pays bills, etc.)

I genuinely appreciate your posts as there is no hidden agenda and you appear to approach any/all topics with an unbiased view.

I agree. When we see how many people are able to get away with what they do w/o any consequences, it destroys the fabric/integrity of this country. If people (political/sports people) can cheat against their wives and get away with it, why shouldn't I? If I can get more money even though it will affect other people negatively, why shouldn't I? Who is accountable for the financial mess we are in in Illinois? No-one. It just happened so we have to raise taxes on everyone........

The list goes on and on........everyone man/woman for him/herself until it becomes such a crisis that someone/somewhere will WAKE UP. Hasn't happened yet with the people in office in this country.

Thank you, I appreciate the support. There often appears to be more support in our social/economic climate for sociopathic , self serving behavior than anything else.

[Unlimited]

"There often appears to be more support in our social/economic climate for sociopathic , self serving behavior than anything else."

Especially on Wall street and in the Corporate Boardrooms.

[vl]

It's the modern day version of out-of-control gangs, Kate. The Goldman Sachs Gang infiltrated the government and got investment houses turned into banks to gain direct feed to the Fed Funds. Sorry, it will only end when we're fully tapped and no other nation recognized the value of American anything, or we have another Civil War and go after blue suits and gold-diggers.

[Small Biz Owner]

Good comparison VL

[decoy409]

Let's see, average people invested in the stock market. Well we are about to see how joe blows invested money is going to work out in the market as of hours ago.

I say let PPT reign in the good news, and double up on the cash to float the market some more! That's right, get that market up at the expense of every man,women,child and the unborn. Why it's the American way, putting Foreign oil in Foreign made cars and shopping at Wal-Mart.

Then we will slap the complete out of control nation on the backs of the Middle Class and what is left of the poor money to pay for it. IMF/UN and others are coming to town.

[Guest Driftr]

This could be the start we were looking for. We'll see if 'could face up to 30 years' turns into 2 years probation and 120 hours of cummunity service as I fear it might. If jail time ends up happening, at least it's a true start.

www.nytimes.com/2011/02/25/business/25mortgage.html?_r=3&src=busln

[Tesla_DC-meme]

To add insult to injury, the people who actually committed the crimes almost never pay the fines themselves; banks caught defrauding their shareholders often use shareholder money to foot the tab of justice.

www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/why-isnt-wall-street-in-jail-20110216

That is what happens when you try to pennalize an organization.



-Best of luck to everyone. ;D

[comokate]

Feb 25, 2011 13:21:50 GMT -5 Tesla_DC-meme said:

To add insult to injury, the people who actually committed the crimes almost never pay the fines themselves; banks caught defrauding their shareholders often use shareholder money to foot the tab of justice.

www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/why-isnt-wall-street-in-jail-20110216

That is what happens when you try to pennalize an organization.



-Best of luck to everyone. ;D

Any "organization" can be penalized. Sometimes by individual incarceration, sometimes by individual decapitation. The choice is usually made by how long the public allows the corruption to continue and how angry those affected become.





jspivey.wikispaces.com/Urban+Philosophe+Christine+K

[vl]

Who says no one goes to jail, Kate? I feel like I've been imprisoned for about 2.5 years now.

All my answers to all the glaring issues fall on deaf ears.

[reasonfreedom]

Feb 25, 2011 13:56:09 GMT -5 @comokate said:

Feb 25, 2011 13:21:50 GMT -5 Tesla_DC-meme said:

www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/why-isnt-wall-street-in-jail-20110216

That is what happens when you try to pennalize an organization.



-Best of luck to everyone. ;D

Any "organization" can be penalized. Sometimes by individual incarceration, sometimes by individual decapitation. The choice is usually made by how long the public allows the corruption to continue and how angry those affected become.



jspivey.wikispaces.com/Urban+Philosophe+Christine+K

We Americans are affected by it and I am sure a lot might get angry, but majority of Americans are apathetic and to lazy to do anything. When grass root groups like the tea party do something they get put down and regarded as crazies. You need to have a superstar like Obama to bring change, but one that actually has the knowledge and experience. If you don't have the superstar or shiny thing then the American mob will be fickle. You also have people like the democrats in Wisconsin that just run from a problem, I wonder what would have happened if one of them came up with a plan to cut spending equal to what the Governor wanted?

[sangria]

Time for a little frontier justice maybe.

[reasonfreedom]

I see sangria, you want to play dirty huh? lol

[djrick]

U.S. Pushes Mortgage Deal
Obama Proposal Seeks Multibillion-Dollar Settlement of Loan-Servicing Cases


online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703842004576162813248586844.html




This whole $20B is a complete sham.

So servicers pay $20B, which then goes to principle reduction. Who receives the money for the reduction: The banks.

Who wrote down their bad loans in the process (because they just received money for the bad loan)? The banks.

At the going rate for a Geithner settlement, $20 billion does indeed mean these folks did about $2 trillion in actionable damage, for which they will be relieved of liability.

Don't anybody dare think the banks are against this.

And Obama is not getting raped. He's just willing to role play it if it makes his banker clients happy.

So, let me get this right. Cause I'm dumb in these type of things.

Pay a fee and move on.

Capture these fees as an ongoing business expense.

Deduct expenses as the cost of doing business.

Less tax dollars paid.

Nobody goes to jail.

WoHo

A win-win. Unless the banks are clawing back dividends and bonuses, the claim that the banks will be the ones paying for the settlement is ludicrous.

___________________________

Quote from Kate's article above, well worth the time to read and forward to family and friends...


"Financial crooks brought down the world's economy — but the feds are doing more to protect them than to prosecute them.

Over drinks at a bar on a dreary, snowy night in Washington this past month, a former Senate investigator laughed as he polished off his beer.

"Everything's fucked up, and nobody goes to jail," he said. "That's your whole story right there. Hell, you don't even have to write the rest of it. Just write that."

I put down my notebook. "Just that?"

"That's right," he said, signaling to the waitress for the check. "Everything's fucked up, and nobody goes to jail. You can end the piece right there."

________________________________________

Yes, all of it will go back to the banks.

Every penny, along with tax treatment that may make it something like free money twice.

What did you expect?

Where did the WH chief of staff work two months ago? Where did the previous one work eight years ago?

[Tesla_DC-meme]

To add insult to injury, the people who actually committed the crimes almost never pay the fines themselves; banks caught defrauding their shareholders often use shareholder money to foot the tab of justice.
Read more: notmsnmoney.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=moneytalk&thread=3849&page=1#154348#ixzz1FBq30g5W

To the REAL investor... this is the injustice. The rest of it is just politics and neurotic hand wringing.

-Best of luck to everyone. ;D

[comokate]

Feb 27, 2011 15:05:50 GMT -5 Tesla_DC-meme said:

To add insult to injury, the people who actually committed the crimes almost never pay the fines themselves; banks caught defrauding their shareholders often use shareholder money to foot the tab of justice.
Read more: notmsnmoney.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=moneytalk&thread=3849&page=1#154348#ixzz1FBq30g5W

To the REAL investor... this is the injustice. The rest of it is just politics and neurotic hand wringing.

-Best of luck to everyone. ;D

The lack of empathy for others is astounding. I personally know three people that lost their homes because of job loss; none were "deadbeats", and they used up their available savings in an attempt to save their family's homes.
When you break the backs of workers, I say, "good luck" to those who expect service from firemen, police, teachers, health care workers, restaurant employees, etc. Let's see who will be wringing their hands-

[neohguy]

We were warned, for at least forty years now, that this would happen if people didn't wake up.
www.nader.org/index.php?/archives/2247-Mad-as-Hell-in-Madison.html#extended
'Mad as Hell' in Madison

By Ralph Nader
The large demonstrations at the state Capitol in Madison, Wisconsin are driven by a middle class awakening to the spectre of its destruction by the corporate reactionaries and their toady Governor Scott Walker.

For years the middle class has watched the plutocrats stomp on the poor while listening to the two parties regale the great middle class, but never mentioning the tens of millions of poor Americans. And for years, the middle class was shrinking due significantly to corporate globalization shipping good-paying jobs overseas to repressive dictatorships like China. It took Governor Walker’s legislative proposal to do away with most collective bargaining rights for most public employee unions to jolt people to hit the streets.

Republicans take rigged elections awash in corporatist campaign cash seriously. When they win, they aggressively move their corporate agenda, unlike the wishy-washy Democrats who flutter weakly after a victory. Republicans mean business. A ram rod wins against a straw all the time.

Governor Walker won his election, along with other Republicans in Wisconsin, on mass-media driven Tea Party rhetoric. His platform was deceitful enough to get the endorsement of the police, and firefighters unions, which the latter have now indignantly withdrawn.
These unions should have known better. The Walker Republicans were following the Reagan playbook. The air traffic controllers union endorsed Reagan in 1980. The next year he fired 12,000 of them during a labor dispute. (This made flying unnecessarily dangerous.)

Then Reagan pushed for tax cuts—primarily for the wealthy—which led to larger deficits to turn the screws on programs benefiting the people. Reagan, though years earlier opposed to corporate welfare, not only maintained these taxpayer subsidies but created a government deficit, over eight years, that was double that of all the accumulated deficits from George Washington to Jimmy Carter.Maybe the unions that endorsed Walker will soon realize that not even being a “Reagan Democrat” will save them from being losers under the boot of the corporate supremacists.

The rumble of the people in Madison illustrates the following:

1. There is an ideological plan driving these corporatists. They create “useful crisis” and then hammer the unorganized people to benefit the wealthy classes. Governor Walker last year gave $140 million in tax breaks to corporations. This fiscal year's deficit is $137 million. Note this oft-repeated dynamic. President Obama caved to the Minority party Republicans in Congress last December by going along with the deficit-deepening extension of the huge dollar volume tax cuts for the rich. Now the Republicans want drastic cuts in programs that help the poor.
2. Whatever non-union or private union workers, who are giving ground or losing jobs, think of the sometimes better pay and benefits of unionized public employees, they need to close ranks without giving up their opposition to government waste. For corporate lobbyists and their corporate governments are going after all collective bargaining rights for all workers and they want to further weaken The National Labor Relations Board.

3. Whenever corporations and government want to cut workers’ incomes, the corporate tax abatements, bloated contracts, handouts and bailouts should be pulled into the public debate. What should go first?
4. For the public university students in these rallies, they might ponder their own tuition bills and high interest loans, compared to students in Western Europe, and question why they have to bear the burden of massive corporate welfare payouts—foodstamps for the rich. What should go first?

5. The bigger picture should be part of the more localized dispute. Governor Walker also wants weaker safety and environmental regulations, bargain-basement sell-outs of state public power plants and other taxpayer assets.
6. The mega-billionaire Koch brothers are in the news. They are bankrolling politicians and rump advocacy groups and funding media campaigns in Wisconsin and all over the country. Koch Industries designs and builds facilities for the natural gas industry. Neither the company nor the brothers like the publicity they deserve to get every time their role is exposed. Always put the spotlight on the backroom boys.

7. Focusing on the larger struggle between the people and the plutocracy should be part and parcel of every march, demonstration or any other kind of mass mobilization. The signs at the Madison rallies make the point, to wit—“2/3 of Wisconsin Corporations Pay No Taxes,” “Why Should Public Workers Pay For Wall Street’s Mess?”, “Corporate Greed Did the Deed.”8. Look how little energy it took for these tens of thousands of people to sound the national alarm for hard-pressed Americans. Just showing up is democracy’s barn raiser. This should persuade people that a big start for a better America can begin with a little effort and a well-attended rally. Imagine what even more civic energy could produce!
Showing up lets people feel their potential power to subordinate corporatism to the sovereignty of the people. After all, the Constitution’s preamble begins with “We the People,” not “We the Corporations.” In fact, the founders never put the word “corporation” or “company” in our constitution which was designed for real people.

As for Governor Walker’s projected two-year $3.6 billion deficit, read what Jon Peacock of the respected nonprofit Wisconsin Budget Project writes at: www.wisconsinbudgetproject.org about how to handle the state budget without adopting the draconian measures now before the legislature.

[vl]

It's kind of like a wildfire no one can put out, we have to wait for nature to do it. Later this year people will abandon homes due to triangular financial suppression. The cost of fuel will rise, core goods will increase in price, decrease in availability and we will have taxes because ALL these paper fixes won't work.
If you closely examine what the Wisconsin governor is doing, WI is eliminating the employee's rights in order to freely cut pay and jobs without recourse. Every wage and job he cuts, causes more financial ripples, it will NOT save the state $165 million as he so adamantly insists on. Bizarrely, when the attack on rights and subsequent financial failure occurs, HE will retain both his job and his pay while fumbling for something else other than the obvious... CREATE jobs, wipe out oligarchies.

There are THREE things every state should be doing right now... force-close Wal-Mart stores (and Sam's Club, CostCo, Meijers, BJs and every other BIG deep discounter). These entities are really cartels suppressing job start-ups. If they want to exist, they need to cater to licensed businesses, not the public. Require any bank doing business in the state to headquarter there and re-invest capital IN the state. Eliminate every local ordinance and statute that suppresses competition for any reason. Enough money remains liquid for people to bring back the necessities of commerce and that would create the premise for recovery jobs. It also goes without saying that anyone with $2,500 or more in non-taxable fixed income is banned from wage-earner income, as opposed to what the governors wish to do, which is- tax pensions. Frankly, go do charity work or start a business, free wage-earner jobs up for recovery.

[nicomachus]

Feb 27, 2011 17:04:23 GMT -5 @neohguy said:

8. Look how little energy it took for these tens of thousands of people to sound the national alarm for hard-pressed Americans. Just showing up is democracy’s barn raiser. This should persuade people that a big start for a better America can begin with a little effort and a well-attended rally. Imagine what even more civic energy could produce!

I'd like to hope that this could be the beginning of a turn around. Maybe once Walker backs down (and I think he will, especially if the rumored general strike happens) people all over the country will begin realizing how much power just showing up, participating, can have!

[Virgil Showlion]

force-close Wal-Mart stores (and Sam's Club, CostCo, Meijers, BJs and every other BIG deep discounter)

Eliminate every local ordinance and statute that suppresses competition for any reason.

Am I missing something here?

You want to forcibly eliminate all competition and then get rid of every statute that suppresses competition?

How are Wal-Marts, Costcos, etc. not simply the "best competitors" from the past decade?

[Tesla_DC-meme]

When you break the backs of workers, I say,...
Read more: notmsnmoney.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=moneytalk&action=display&thread=3849#ixzz1FCfSbj3l

I think we all know folks that have suffered hardships and disappointment.

Only the most apathetic among them would ever concede to having been defeated / victimized / exploited.

Good people engage the working world in good faith and do not expect to be coddled or pitied. I only respect the hard working people who accept their lot in life with resolve and dignity.

[Virgil Showlion]

I think we all know folks that have suffered hardships and disappointment.

Only the most apathetic among them would ever concede to having been defeated / victimized / exploited.

Buh?

So if I told my employees that I spent their pension fund on a giant toad-shaped dirigible to fly around the world, you would consider them apathetic if they did complain to the BBB about being exploited?

Must have missed that one in Tesla school.

[Tesla_DC-meme]

As I said...in good faith.
Seeking / expecting justice does not gaurantee that one will receive it.
Capitol has inherent risk and so does labor. Moralizing does not by itself pose real oppositon to EVIL. Moralizing only bemoans EVIL...impotently.




-Best of luck to everyone. ;D

[comokate]

Feb 27, 2011 21:47:25 GMT -5 Tesla_DC-meme said:

As I said...in good faith.
Seeking / expecting justice does not gaurantee that one will receive it.
Capitol has inherent risk and so does labor. Moralizing does not by itself pose real oppositon to EVIL. Moralizing only bemoans EVIL...impotently.




-Best of luck to everyone. ;D

The pen was once mightier than the sword. Keypads are now toppling dictators. What you may call "moralizing" is what others see as a call to action-

[djrick]

Steal $2000, you've got a problem

Steal $2T, the rest of the country has got a problem.

[neohguy]

www.huffingtonpost.com/stanley-kutler/what-gov-walker-wont-tell_1_b_827104.html
What Gov. Walker Won't Tell You
There is a kernel of truth in Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker's claim of a "budget shortfall" of $137 million.The But Walker, a Republican, failed to tell the state that less than two weeks into his term as governor, he, with his swollen Republican majorities in the Wisconsin legislature, pushed through $117 million in tax breaks for business allies of the GOP. There is your crisis.state Legislature's Legislative Fiscal Bureau -- Wisconsin's equivalent of the Congressional Budget Office and a refuge for professional expertise and nonpartisanship -- warned Walker and the legislature that the measure would create a budget gap. There is your shortfall -- and not one resulting from established public employee benefits. Before the tax giveaways, the fiscal agency predicted a surplus for the state. ...
Budgets are a mysterious maze. Legislators -- let alone a citizenry dependent on a largely incompetent, ill-informed media -- rarely know the intricacies of a budget and how it may cause a seismic change in public policy. Walker himself precipitated the "budget crisis," necessitating a "repair bill" that gave him and his allies what they really wanted. The governor pursues an agenda backed by the tea party's financial angels. Public employees and other workers down the line will pay the freight for such folly. The governor lies.

[djrick]

When you really do kick a can down the road, it makes that 'clinkity clank clank,' sound.

Right up to the point where the can stops.

::Wile E. Coyote::