tloonya
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Post by tloonya on Mar 15, 2014 11:36:54 GMT -5
It was a funny story my customer told me. She got lost on the way to somewhere, so she had stopped at nearest DD and explained to the counter person that she needs to get there so please, help...etc. The reply she had gotten was a pant-wetter: 'Small or Large? Cream and sugar?' She probably left...idk Today on the way to work I am stopping at DD and ordering sausage, egg and cheese sandwich. Paying. Getting my order, opening it - bagel with cream cheese on both. I am running back. And I am showing her receipt where it says sausage, egg and cheese. She opens my bagel and starting to yell at her co-worker to remake it. So...I was surprised, she understood ME but her own people don't understand HER. So what is my beef is that all people in that DD were around 20 y/old!!! They do not even make an effort to learn the language of the country they are living in! What are we getting here? We having everything written in Spanish now. How much bigger packages are supposed to become to accommodate all other languages that people bring here and wish to use it HERE I would not grant citizenship to people who had not learned how to speak language of the country unless there is age or medical issue to it. Where do I go to propose my...proposal?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2014 11:51:53 GMT -5
We have been hearing from MW workers who have been moving up here to N. California from S. Calif, and they are saying that they can no longer get jobs in S. California because they can't speak Spanish.
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sesfw
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Post by sesfw on Mar 15, 2014 12:14:49 GMT -5
Where do I go to propose my...proposal?
Unfortunately it's in the voting booth. That is the only way Congress hears the everyday people that live and do their jobs.
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tloonya
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Post by tloonya on Mar 15, 2014 12:19:36 GMT -5
Where do I go to propose my...proposal?
Unfortunately it's in the voting booth. That is the only way Congress hears the everyday people that live and do their jobs. No comprendo...possible or not? Why unfortunately in voting booth? How do they hear people? Pls elaborate
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milee
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Post by milee on Mar 15, 2014 12:36:59 GMT -5
Loony, you are living in a glass house. Do not throw stones.
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tloonya
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Post by tloonya on Mar 15, 2014 12:39:18 GMT -5
Loony, you are living in a glass house. Do not throw stones. Take dark shades down and imagine future of your home. And I am not living in a glass house. Like I told you before (if you heard me) I worked for Fortune companies for 11 years, so back off...
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milee
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Post by milee on Mar 15, 2014 12:46:01 GMT -5
And I am not living in a glass house. Like I told you before (if you heard me) I worked for Fortune companies for 11 years, so back off... That's part of the problem, you may have "told" us, but your communication in English can be challenging for English speakers/readers to understand, so it's very possible we missed it or you didn't actually "say" that.
I respect your ability to learn a foreign language and use that language in that country, so I'm supportive of you and your English skills. On the other hand, you have to admit that many people on the board have commented on how they do not understand your writing, so consistently clear communication in English is something that is a struggle for you. Why would you pick on someone else who is having this same struggle?
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tloonya
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Post by tloonya on Mar 15, 2014 12:51:56 GMT -5
And I am not living in a glass house. Like I told you before (if you heard me) I worked for Fortune companies for 11 years, so back off... That's part of the problem, you may have "told" us, but your communication in English can be challenging for English speakers/readers to understand, so it's very possible we missed it or you didn't actually "say" that.
I respect your ability to learn a foreign language and use that language in that country, so I'm supportive of you and your English skills. On the other hand, you have to admit that many people on the board have commented on how they do not understand your writing, so consistently clear communication in English is something that is a struggle for you. Why would you pick on someone else who is having this same struggle?
I do not really believe in people not understanding me. I was communicating with people about subjects that had required a lot of knowledge and interpersonal skills. And as long as 1 person here understands what I am writing - I do not care about those snobs who says they don't because they are just picking on me. Plus this is my internet forum personality and I am kind of playing what I am playing here. I had once had a lot of time on my hands and had created 2 people in one forum where one was a woman with language problems and another was a man without such. Never got caught. See? Tootles. If you are fine with having 2 wrong bagels - fine, I am aint having time for it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2014 13:56:50 GMT -5
Start in Arizona, they seem to be willing to ban immigrants, all immigrants.
Complain to your congressman. US used to require education levels and long application reviews with sponsor certification. They stopped doing that a long time ago. I am not sure why they stop. Canada still does have immigration profile. I think it is not completely undemocratic then.
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sesfw
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Post by sesfw on Mar 15, 2014 18:49:53 GMT -5
How do they hear people
By voting them out of office and getting new people in that will listen.
Start in Arizona, they seem to be willing to ban immigrants, all immigrants.
Not all immigrants .......... just the illegal ones.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Mar 15, 2014 19:22:46 GMT -5
"The reply she had gotten was a pant-wetter: 'Small or Large? Cream and sugar?"
Maybe I had to be there, but it's not that funny.
Anyway, it is kind of annoying when managers choose to put people who can't speak English (or speak it very poorly) in a customer service type job.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Mar 15, 2014 19:32:43 GMT -5
How do you know they aren't trying to learn English?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2014 19:53:17 GMT -5
On this topic. I used to work with a very sweet Mexican woman who would not learn to speak English. We had little trouble communicating because we talked with our hands a lot and I remember a little Spanish or would ask another Mexican woman for translation. Except she retired and moved but still I run into her occasionally. And she always tells me to call her. But I can't call her cause I can't speak Spanish.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Mar 15, 2014 20:07:08 GMT -5
That's part of the problem, you may have "told" us, but your communication in English can be challenging for English speakers/readers to understand, so it's very possible we missed it or you didn't actually "say" that.
I respect your ability to learn a foreign language and use that language in that country, so I'm supportive of you and your English skills. On the other hand, you have to admit that many people on the board have commented on how they do not understand your writing, so consistently clear communication in English is something that is a struggle for you. Why would you pick on someone else who is having this same struggle?
I do not really believe in people not understanding me. I was communicating with people about subjects that had required a lot of knowledge and interpersonal skills. And as long as 1 person here understands what I am writing - I do not care about those snobs who says they don't because they are just picking on me. Plus this is my internet forum personality and I am kind of playing what I am playing here. I had once had a lot of time on my hands and had created 2 people in one forum where one was a woman with language problems and another was a man without such. Never got caught. See? Tootles. If you are fine with having 2 wrong bagels - fine, I am aint having time for it. You know Archie's opinion does not count, right? He's not for real.
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Sunnyday
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Post by Sunnyday on Mar 15, 2014 20:44:58 GMT -5
Learning a language is hard, and take this from someone who knows many, but mastering a language to native speaker fluency is almost impossible for most.
Every single Country that I have lived in has had an American expat community that did not speak any of the language and expected everyone to speak in English. Every English-speaking tourist that I have met in the world whether they be Canadian, American or British and it's many Commonwealth variants have all EXPECTED for people to speak in English. And please spare me, your "but I tried hard to say hello and thank you in X, Y, Z language!"
I get people saying that if you move to a country that you should learn the language, but given (general) Americans' complete inability to learn another language when they live in or travel in another country, I just cannot give a shit that recent immigrants don't speak English.
You know why?? Because they're people with jobs and lives, and it's hard to learn. And it's demoralizing when you try and people treat you like shit.
Think about how hard it is to do anything that you know you should do, clean your house, keep to your budget, not eat that second donut! It's hard for you and a lot of people to do simple things like that. Imagine how hard it is for immigrants to do that in a language they can barely speak.
It doesn't matter to me that they don't speak English perfectly because I KNOW for a fact that the second generation will master English and often to the detriment of their parents' language, and they will do what every immigrant group has done in our history, which is assimilate.
You Tooney, as a immigrant, your post is just freaking shameful!
And as one immigrant who has mastered English, I guess I should be complaining about how bad your English is, but I won't. I wouldn't ever do that to another immigrant. But for you, I will glad to make an exception!!!
I know that you might think your English is good, and it probably is much better orally, but your written is atrocious. Hint: people even when they don't understand you, they just nod, smile and shake their heads as if they do. They're just being polite.
I speak four languages like a native speaker! I speak 5 other languages like you speak English, but I never tell people that I speak the other 5 languages, because I find my level embarrassing. That should tell you a lot about what I think of your level.
When I think of those hard working people and your disdain for them!!' Well, I better sign off before I say something that gets me banned.
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ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Mar 15, 2014 21:00:00 GMT -5
I find reading tloonya 's posts difficult. She's complaining about someone else's English comprehension?
I'm confused.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2014 21:18:40 GMT -5
Rainy day is right about the 2nd generation and my girlfriend told me a funny story about her youngest. He had no interest in speaking Spanish and even though that was the language they spoke at home, he wouldn't. He wasn't use to it or good at it and he refused to speak it. When grandma would call he wouldn't talk to her. This annoyed mom so she made him take Spanish at school and he was not happy about it. First day of class he came home really mad because they called him ( I can't remember specifically) but let's say Ricardo. "But mom, my name is Juan." They made him take a different Spanish name instead of keeping his own. He thought it was so stupid and he was right, it was.
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sesfw
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Post by sesfw on Mar 15, 2014 22:09:31 GMT -5
This reminds me of the family next door when I was in high school, 1957-59.
They were a Mexican family and spoke both English and Mexican intermixed in the home. The youngest son took a Spanish class and the chaos was really laughable. No one in the family understood Castilian Spanish so he couldn't practice at home.
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cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on Mar 16, 2014 0:50:54 GMT -5
My brother moved to Mexico and is taking Spanish classes. The school has English classes and asked him to teach English because none of the teachers spoke it well. His wife and son speak English and Spanish but the boy went to Miami hoping to practice English and found most didn't speak it.
I don't have trouble with first generation people not learning much English it is hard. The problem is when too many come from the same place the next generations don't learn it either so you have several generations that don't assimilate. Cubans came in the 60 and 70 yet many still don't speak English and many places in southern California the signs seem to all be in Spanish on the stores so you feel like you are in another country. Getting jobs even in Miami Beach in the 70s was hard if you didn't speak Spanish.
I worked with many people who spoke English very poorly so if they needed something they brought the kids to talk for them. The kids as young as 5 or 6 were totally bilingual no matter what country the parents were from. If you are born here you should learn English even if you start school not knowing any. If you come before you are 14 you should learn it eventually but if you come after 50 you are excused in my opinion but you shouldn't be working answering phones or anywhere you need to be understood.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Mar 16, 2014 1:04:25 GMT -5
LOL! Loony, of all people, complaining about people not speaking English. Nice.
Sweety, I love you, but your written English is terrible. It's close enough to be understandable, most of the time, but it takes some guess work. I wouldn't be too vocal in wanting a written English test to get a green card if I was you.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Mar 16, 2014 2:43:35 GMT -5
Common people, I thought everyone knew what to do if someone doesn't understand your language -> you just start speaking louder and louder, slower and slower. If you shout loudly enough they will surely understand you, provided they are not total dimwits, right? You wouldn't believe how many times I have observed this behavior over the years! And this behavior seems to be universal. Totally weird but true
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Mar 16, 2014 3:30:55 GMT -5
Loony isn't asking that immigrants be master linguists, just that they demonstrate a minimum comprehension of the national language. It's a reasonable demand.
An individual who lacks a baseline ability to communicate is a liability. From a safety standpoint, a civic duty standpoint, a can-follow-instructions standpoint, etc. Moreover, such an individual is a drain on other workers' time as they struggle in vain to convey simple ideas.
I haven't come across a single person who claimed not to have successfully learned a new language if they diligently studied the basics and then immersed themselves in conversations in that language, with a strong determination to correct any mistakes and accept corrective feedback. Many reported great success in a matter of weeks. And for those who weren't interested in speaking a language well, just getting by, they could at least tell the difference between "cream cheese" and "Central Park".
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Mar 16, 2014 9:33:27 GMT -5
Interesting things about the English language in this article. I knew it was a difficult one for newcomers to learn, since three of my four grandparents had to learn it, but this 2010 Washington Post story explains why: www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/08/AR2010060804982.htmlAn excerpt from the article: You might not realize it, but English is one of the most difficult languages on Earth. Its rules have lots of exceptions, and its words are hard to spell. Here's a typical example of how confusing English can be: Say the words "mate," "eight" and "strait" out loud. They all make the same sound when you say them, but they are spelled totally differently!
Pronouncing and spelling most English words probably is easy for you, but for people learning English for the first time, these kinds of quirks in our language make it extremely challenging.
As you get ready to leave school for summer break, we thought it was a good time to learn some cool things about the English language. These fun facts are from the Web site of the Oxford English Dictionary, a highly respected authority on the language. To see lots of other interesting facts, go to www.askoxford.com and click on "Ask the Experts."
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Mar 16, 2014 9:49:00 GMT -5
Looks like folks are handling this one quite well. From reading the OP, I got the sense this could go downhill really quickly.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Mar 16, 2014 9:51:36 GMT -5
I'm wondering if warring accents might have been a problem. A person for whom English is a second language will usually speak with an accent. I can imagine two people, each from a different country with a different language, trying to communicate in English (which is the native language of neither). The accents could, I think, be most of the problem. Both may be in the process of learning English, or mastering English, and still have trouble communicating with another non-native speaker because the words just don't sound the same as they would coming from a native speaker.
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sarcasticgirl
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Post by sarcasticgirl on Mar 16, 2014 14:43:07 GMT -5
Did you ever think that maybe they just gave you the wrong order by mistake? I've had it happen from white american english speaking people. Things happen, people get confused and/or make mistakes.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Mar 16, 2014 17:08:57 GMT -5
I'm wondering if warring accents might have been a problem. A person for whom English is a second language will usually speak with an accent. I can imagine two people, each from a different country with a different language, trying to communicate in English (which is the native language of neither). The accents could, I think, be most of the problem. Both may be in the process of learning English, or mastering English, and still have trouble communicating with another non-native speaker because the words just don't sound the same as they would coming from a native speaker. They could be Indians from different part of India, too. Assuming the people in the OP are in fact from the Indian subcontinent, there are 28 states, seven territories, and no single national language. Hindi and English are recognized as the official languages, but there are 22 other recognized regional languages. And people from one region may not understand those from another.
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ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Mar 16, 2014 20:03:20 GMT -5
English isn't the first language of America either.
Pick any Native American tribe's language - they were here long before any settlers arrived.
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Mar 16, 2014 21:35:48 GMT -5
And, USA doesnt actually have a national language.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2014 21:53:32 GMT -5
If you go to Southern CA the TV commercials are in Spanish. Seriously.
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