Indian running Dunkin Donuts!

[NancysSummerSip]

Mar 17, 2014 5:50:38 GMT -5 Ratchets said:

Mar 16, 2014 9:33:27 GMT -5 NancysSummerSip said:

Interesting things about the English language in this article. I knew it was a difficult one for newcomers to learn, since three of my four grandparents had to learn it, but this 2010 Washington Post story explains why:

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/08/AR2010060804982.html

An excerpt from the article:

You might not realize it, but English is one of the most difficult languages on Earth. Its rules have lots of exceptions, and its words are hard to spell. Here's a typical example of how confusing English can be: Say the words "mate," "eight" and "strait" out loud. They all make the same sound when you say them, but they are spelled totally differently!

Pronouncing and spelling most English words probably is easy for you, but for people learning English for the first time, these kinds of quirks in our language make it extremely challenging.

As you get ready to leave school for summer break, we thought it was a good time to learn some cool things about the English language. These fun facts are from the Web site of the Oxford English Dictionary, a highly respected authority on the language. To see lots of other interesting facts, go to www.askoxford.com and click on "Ask the Experts."

The tenses are confusing also.  German is much easier to learn in that aspect - the only options you have are "I go - I went."  There is no "I will have gone" etc.

We've been living in England for five years now, and I'm STILL trying to learn British...

Aw, I love British. I like the BBC America TV ad, the one that says "We speak English." So totally definitive and in your face to us Yanks. And the Brit slang is so, well, colorful.

[tloonya]

DD 'oopsie' #2.

You know how they advertising egg benedict sandwiches.
I went and asked for 2 egg benedict sandwiches. No more words were spoken!!!
I got one on English muffin and one on greasy toast!

[Deleted]

In their defense, the greasy toast most likely was the eggs benedict. 

[tloonya]

Mar 15, 2014 19:22:46 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

"The reply she had gotten was a pant-wetter: 'Small or Large? Cream and sugar?"

Maybe I had to be there, but it's not that funny.

Anyway, it is kind of annoying when managers choose to put people who can't speak English (or speak it very poorly) in a customer service type job.

Person asking for help because she is lost and gets 'small or large? cream and sugar? as an answer.
It is friggin hilarious!

[tloonya]

Mar 17, 2014 9:27:16 GMT -5 @beerwench said:

In their defense, the greasy toast most likely was the eggs benedict. 

I am not a pro in egg benedict sandwiches. Maybe. However I would expect another one to be the same but it wasn't.

[milee]

We don't eat fast food often, so it's not a huge sample size, but when we do get fast food it's not uncommon for there to be an error in the order. And that's with people who appear to speak English as their first language.  The workers aren't paid much and it's a tough work environment, no matter what language you speak. 

[tloonya]

Mar 15, 2014 19:32:43 GMT -5 swamp said:

How do you know they aren't trying to learn English?  

When I worked in the office with  nice view I didn't know, swamp.
But now I am in 'the hood'.
What they are doing is coming home after work and getting on Skype.
For hours. Every day! Because they live 10 people in the apartment and they have huge families overseas so each person must talk to everyone 'at home'. So instead of learning English - there is chatting going on. then movie watching from 'home'...then listening of the music...
Manager of the Chinese restaurant on my plaza can only take my order by numbers. He is about 30 and he had been here long before we started business.

And I am not saying everyone like 100% but 90% I guarantee it!!!

I hope you understood my explanation, swamp.

[tloonya]

Mar 17, 2014 9:51:57 GMT -5 milee said:

We don't eat fast food often, so it's not a huge sample size, but when we do get fast food it's not uncommon for there to be an error in the order. And that's with people who appear to speak English as their first language.  The workers aren't paid much and it's a tough work environment, no matter what language you speak. 

Common, nothing tough in there. there are families working in there. all related. or most. its their family businesses.

[milee]

OK, I believe you.

Sounds like they have a poorly run business. Are there any other DDs or other places you could go?  Doesn't sound like they're likely to change or get better any time soon.

[tloonya]

Mar 15, 2014 20:44:58 GMT -5 Sunnyday said:

Learning a language is hard, and take this from someone who knows many, but mastering a language to native speaker fluency is almost impossible for most.

Every single Country that I have lived in has had an American expat community that did not speak any of the language and expected everyone to speak in English. Every English-speaking tourist that I have met in the world whether they be Canadian, American or British and it's many Commonwealth variants have all EXPECTED for people to speak in English. And please spare me, your "but I tried hard to say hello and thank you in X, Y, Z language!"

I get people saying that if you move to a country that you should learn the language, but given (general) Americans' complete inability to learn another language when they live in or travel in another country, I just cannot give a shit that recent immigrants don't speak English.

You know why?? Because they're people with jobs and lives, and it's hard to learn. And it's demoralizing when you try and people treat you like shit.

Think about how hard it is to do anything that you know you should do, clean your house, keep to your budget, not eat that second donut! It's hard for you and a lot of people to do simple things like that. Imagine how hard it is for immigrants to do that in a language they can barely speak.

It doesn't matter to me that they don't speak English perfectly because I KNOW for a fact that the second generation will master English and often to the detriment of their parents' language, and they will do what every immigrant group has done in our history, which is assimilate.

You Tooney, as a immigrant, your post is just freaking shameful!

And as one immigrant who has mastered English, I guess I should be complaining about how bad your English is, but I won't. I wouldn't ever do that to another immigrant.
But for you, I will glad to make an exception!!!

I know that you might think your English is good, and it probably is much better orally, but your written is atrocious. Hint: people even when they don't understand you, they just nod, smile and shake their heads as if they do. They're just being polite.

I speak four languages like a native speaker! I speak 5 other languages like you speak English, but I never tell people that I speak the other 5 languages, because I find my level embarrassing. That should tell you a lot about what I think of your level.

When I think of those hard working people and your disdain for them!!' Well, I better sign off before I say something that gets me banned.

it is because of people who think like that our jobs are outsourced overseas because if every american refused to be so tolerant and guess what is that John from Bangladesh is trying to tell him to plug in - there would be more jobs here!!!

Those people with 'lifes' arfe simply lazy! And they need to login to 'learning english' website instead of a Skyp(ing) with overseas until their eyes popping out!

Yes, I am an immigrant - that is why I don't give a damn if anyone thinks my post is shameful. Shame is to find exuse to every lazy bone and feed them on my tax dollars!!! with caviar and smoked fish! yes and foe gras!


I will say at the end that it is 'dont give a shit/damn/care' about this subject - what got our country in where we are on the first place!
I would not like to see it to be torn into shreds. However you probably cannot give a shit!

[swamp]

Every time I go to the local McDonalds they screw up my order. And everyone there speaks English

[tloonya]

Mar 17, 2014 10:02:43 GMT -5 milee said:

OK, I believe you.

Sounds like they have a poorly run business. Are there any other DDs or other places you could go?  Doesn't sound like they're likely to change or get better any time soon.

2 stories are from 2 different DDs. Both nearby. And no, they will not change because these kids (young adults) have no reason to speak English better! They are comfortable in their own zone. Which is...why would you change anything?

[tloonya]

Mar 17, 2014 10:11:00 GMT -5 swamp said:

Every time I go to the local McDonalds they screw up my order. And everyone there speaks English

Your English is...good, right?
Common, you are exadurating. I had never had it screwed up at McD. Nor BK. But I had not been there forever now.
Maybe they screwing up now. hope not.

[bean29]

Mar 15, 2014 13:56:50 GMT -5 @lillylake said:

Start in Arizona, they seem to be willing to ban immigrants, all immigrants.

Complain to your congressman. US used to require education levels and long application reviews with sponsor certification. They stopped doing that a long time ago. I am not sure why they stop. Canada still does have immigration profile. I think it is not completely undemocratic then.

Really?  I did not know that.  We sponsored My husband's Aunt & family when DH and I were first married (about 20 years ago).  We had to show that we had adequate income for the # of people we spnsored, I think we had to have a place for them to live lined up (we did anyways) they had to provide certain documentation at Juarez and have a pretty large amount of cash to pay the fees.  I remember that I thought it was nuts that you could not wire the $$ anywere to be put on deposit.   I don't think there was any education requirments.  I would be surprised if the aunt and uncle graduated from HS although with family here in the US sending them $$ maybe they did.  My Hudband's Aunt and Uncle have 6 kids.  Their oldest daughter was already an adult and married so she stayed in Mexico.  Hope she is OK because they live in Michoacan (State) which is in the news for being controled by the Knights Templar Gang.

Yes the documentation provided was like a bible including financial info.  I don't know if it is still required I will have to ask DH if he has heard anything.

All are working except for the yougest who is in HS.  Don't know if he will graduate as DH says he is a party animal. 

I think it was just this weekend that USA Today had an article on the Knights Templar controlling Michoacan and having control of Police and Politicians etc.  One wonders if people from this region can get refugee status?  The article said that the top moneymaker for Knights Templar was  Mining Iron Ore, and Slavery is going on. 

[milee]

Mar 17, 2014 10:12:40 GMT -5 tloonya said:

Mar 17, 2014 10:02:43 GMT -5 milee said:

OK, I believe you.

Sounds like they have a poorly run business. Are there any other DDs or other places you could go?  Doesn't sound like they're likely to change or get better any time soon.

2 stories are from 2 different DDs. Both nearby. And no, they will not change because these kids (young adults) have no reason to speak English better! They are comfortable in their own zone. Which is...why would you change anything?

Maybe they're run by the same franchisee. Sometimes happens when a franchisee has multiple stores.

You're surrounded by food all day, maybe this is a sign to make something at the store. Or maybe it's a push to encourage you to sell quick convenience foods. Heck, if the local DD sucks, come get your breakfast sandwich and coffee at Loony's...

[NancysSummerSip]

Mar 17, 2014 9:54:27 GMT -5 tloonya said:

Mar 15, 2014 19:32:43 GMT -5 swamp said:

How do you know they aren't trying to learn English?  

When I worked in the office with  nice view I didn't know, swamp.
But now I am in 'the hood'.
What they are doing is coming home after work and getting on Skype.
For hours. Every day! Because they live 10 people in the apartment and they have huge families overseas so each person must talk to everyone 'at home'. So instead of learning English - there is chatting going on. then movie watching from 'home'...then listening of the music...
Manager of the Chinese restaurant on my plaza can only take my order by numbers. He is about 30 and he had been here long before we started business.

And I am not saying everyone like 100% but 90% I guarantee it!!!

I hope you understood my explanation, swamp.

How else do you expect them to stay in touch with their families overseas for reasonable cost? Skype is cheaper than doing it by phone, and they can see their loved ones at the same time.

As for taking orders by number at a restaurant, language is likely not the issue there. The guy who is working there knows the names of the dishes. It's a speed issue, for him and the kitchen; much faster to write a couple of numbers than all those entreé names.

And there's nothing wrong with using a computer to learn English. Years ago, before computers, many immigrants read the English-language newspapers to practice their English. I cannot speak for any other city, but in New York City, The New York Times was the paper most often read by immigrants seeking to improve their speaking skills. At the time, the paper was expensive, even at a nickel or so per copy in the late 1800s to early 1900s. So groups of workers would buy one and share, and read out loud to each other. Computers have just taken the place of the paper-copy newspaper.

[swamp]

Mar 17, 2014 10:18:21 GMT -5 tloonya said:

Mar 17, 2014 10:11:00 GMT -5 swamp said:

Every time I go to the local McDonalds they screw up my order. And everyone there speaks English

Your English is...good, right?
Common, you are exadurating. I had never had it screwed up at McD. Nor BK. But I had not been there forever now.
Maybe they screwing up now. hope not.

They hire a bunch of crack heads.

[milee]

We're all way too analytical in our family, so we like to critique and re-engineer businesses. I know - weird, but it's what we do.

Anyway, we've concluded that the local McDonald's is well managed because even though they have a large pool of employees that don't speak English as their first language, they tend to be fast and accurate. The BK and Wendy's are poorly managed, slow and error-prone. But the place that totally kicks butt is the Chick fil A.   They are super fast, super friendly, accurate and polite to a fault. (I also wonder if they pay more?) Our theory is that they're well managed and also that the owner recruits teens from the local church group, which might give him a ready made pool of polite teens that he knows or knows their families. Whatever that owner does (and to a lesser extent - whatever the McDonald's owner does) works and really shows.

And this is all from places within a 5 mile radius, so I don't think the available labor pool is all that different. We don't have access to their financials to see how profitable each is, though. This is all from a customer service standpoint and again, relatively small sample sizes since we don't go very often.

[tloonya]

Mar 17, 2014 10:25:22 GMT -5 NancysSummerSip said:

Mar 17, 2014 9:54:27 GMT -5 tloonya said:

When I worked in the office with  nice view I didn't know, swamp.
But now I am in 'the hood'.
What they are doing is coming home after work and getting on Skype.
For hours. Every day! Because they live 10 people in the apartment and they have huge families overseas so each person must talk to everyone 'at home'. So instead of learning English - there is chatting going on. then movie watching from 'home'...then listening of the music...
Manager of the Chinese restaurant on my plaza can only take my order by numbers. He is about 30 and he had been here long before we started business.

And I am not saying everyone like 100% but 90% I guarantee it!!!

I hope you understood my explanation, swamp.

How else do you expect them to stay in touch with their families overseas for reasonable cost? Skype is cheaper than doing it by phone, and they can see their loved ones at the same time.

As for taking orders by number at a restaurant, language is likely not the issue there. The guy who is working there knows the names of the dishes. It's a speed issue, for him and the kitchen; much faster to write a couple of numbers than all those entreé names.

And there's nothing wrong with using a computer to learn English. Years ago, before computers, many immigrants read the English-language newspapers to practice their English. I cannot speak for any other city, but in New York City, The New York Times was the paper most often read by immigrants seeking to improve their speaking skills. At the time, the paper was expensive, even at a nickel or so per copy in the late 1800s to early 1900s. So groups of workers would buy one and share, and read out loud to each other. Computers have just taken the place of the paper-copy newspaper.

Reading comprehension

I said every day. For hours. Instead of taking some time from it to learn language of the country you are living in.

Keep up your tolerance and you are going to be moving to deep suburbs soon as Swedish do because their country overflown by immigrants who don't want to speak the language, work the jobs...they just there to party!

[tloonya]

Mar 17, 2014 10:26:22 GMT -5 swamp said:

Mar 17, 2014 10:18:21 GMT -5 tloonya said:

Your English is...good, right?
Common, you are exadurating. I had never had it screwed up at McD. Nor BK. But I had not been there forever now.
Maybe they screwing up now. hope not.

They hire a bunch of crack heads.

See, for MsD I supposed it is depends where its located.
I had been to a few were I was kind of uncomfortable.
But majority (in my neck of the woods) are employing people I have no problem dealing with.

[tloonya]

A

Mar 17, 2014 10:36:17 GMT -5 milee said:

We're all way too analytical in our family, so we like to critique and re-engineer businesses. I know - weird, but it's what we do.

Anyway, we've concluded that the local McDonald's is well managed because even though they have a large pool of employees that don't speak English as their first language, they tend to be fast and accurate. The BK and Wendy's are poorly managed, slow and error-prone. But the place that totally kicks butt is the Chick fil A.   They are super fast, super friendly, accurate and polite to a fault. (I also wonder if they pay more?) Our theory is that they're well managed and also that the owner recruits teens from the local church group, which might give him a ready made pool of polite teens that he knows or knows their families. Whatever that owner does (and to a lesser extent - whatever the McDonald's owner does) works and really shows.

And this is all from places within a 5 mile radius, so I don't think the available labor pool is all that different. We don't have access to their financials to see how profitable each is, though. This is all from a customer service standpoint and again, relatively small sample sizes since we don't go very often.

Agree on some. it is like comparing Target to a WalMart, right?
Target is well lit up (in my area), friendly stuff, sometimes hard to find but if you get them - you are taken care of.
WalMart is dark, dirty and shubby (in my area), if you talk to the staff - they know nothing - so to me I am better going to Target.

In my work area Target and WalMart are same shit! However Target is still little nicer. Cleaner. Friendlier. But compare to my other one where I live it is day and night. go figure. Pay is the same, right?

[NancysSummerSip]

Mar 17, 2014 10:36:25 GMT -5 tloonya said:

Mar 17, 2014 10:25:22 GMT -5 NancysSummerSip said:

How else do you expect them to stay in touch with their families overseas for reasonable cost? Skype is cheaper than doing it by phone, and they can see their loved ones at the same time.

As for taking orders by number at a restaurant, language is likely not the issue there. The guy who is working there knows the names of the dishes. It's a speed issue, for him and the kitchen; much faster to write a couple of numbers than all those entreé names.

And there's nothing wrong with using a computer to learn English. Years ago, before computers, many immigrants read the English-language newspapers to practice their English. I cannot speak for any other city, but in New York City, The New York Times was the paper most often read by immigrants seeking to improve their speaking skills. At the time, the paper was expensive, even at a nickel or so per copy in the late 1800s to early 1900s. So groups of workers would buy one and share, and read out loud to each other. Computers have just taken the place of the paper-copy newspaper.

Reading comprehension

I said every day. For hours. Instead of taking some time from it to learn language of the country you are living in.

Keep up your tolerance and you are going to be moving to deep suburbs soon as Swedish do because their country overflown by immigrants who don't want to speak the language, work the jobs...they just there to party!

My tolerance, like my reading comprehensive, is excellent. And we have plenty of immigrants here, mostly from South and Central America and Haiti, along with Germany, England, France and a surprising number from Eastern Europe, particularly the Russian Federation.
I like it that way. I'm not moving. And many immigrants coming here either know some English, or make an effort to learn it by going to community college classes, adult ed classes or the local community center.

What makes you think they are not learning the language of this country, just because they are on Skype? How do you know they are not taking classes on weekends or online?

[973beachbum]

Mar 17, 2014 10:36:17 GMT -5 milee said:

We're all way too analytical in our family, so we like to critique and re-engineer businesses. I know - weird, but it's what we do.

Anyway, we've concluded that the local McDonald's is well managed because even though they have a large pool of employees that don't speak English as their first language, they tend to be fast and accurate. The BK and Wendy's are poorly managed, slow and error-prone. But the place that totally kicks butt is the Chick fil A.   They are super fast, super friendly, accurate and polite to a fault. (I also wonder if they pay more?) Our theory is that they're well managed and also that the owner recruits teens from the local church group, which might give him a ready made pool of polite teens that he knows or knows their families. Whatever that owner does (and to a lesser extent - whatever the McDonald's owner does) works and really shows.

And this is all from places within a 5 mile radius, so I don't think the available labor pool is all that different. We don't have access to their financials to see how profitable each is, though. This is all from a customer service standpoint and again, relatively small sample sizes since we don't go very often.

My sample size is the three my DD worked at so take this with a grain of salt.   The worse the mgmt treats the employees the more they don't give a #@!* about anyone's order.  The worst was the BK where the employees were treated like used toilet paper to the local hamburger joint where where were treated pretty well.

At the BK getting fired would have actually been a kindness.  So while they all were born and raised here and spoke English just fine they could have cared less about that job.  My Dd used to say that she felt sorry for the customers though.

[tloonya]

Mar 17, 2014 11:20:46 GMT -5 NancysSummerSip said:

Mar 17, 2014 10:36:25 GMT -5 tloonya said:

Reading comprehension

I said every day. For hours. Instead of taking some time from it to learn language of the country you are living in.

Keep up your tolerance and you are going to be moving to deep suburbs soon as Swedish do because their country overflown by immigrants who don't want to speak the language, work the jobs...they just there to party!

My tolerance, like my reading comprehensive, is excellent. And we have plenty of immigrants here, mostly from South and Central America and Haiti, along with Germany, England, France and a surprising number from Eastern Europe, particularly the Russian Federation.
I like it that way. I'm not moving. And many immigrants coming here either know some English, or make an effort to learn it by going to community college classes, adult ed classes or the local community center.

What makes you think they are not learning the language of this country, just because they are on Skype? How do you know they are not taking classes on weekends or online?

Apparently not so much. Because I said:
For hours. Every day! Because they live 10 people in the apartment and they have huge families overseas so each person must talk to everyone 'at home'. So instead of learning English - there is chatting going on. then movie watching from 'home'...then listening of the music...

and you missed it.

What makes me think?
...because I am on the middle of this all almost 24/7 and I see them in my store and outside at DDs and everywhere else and they are talking to me. People who live in appartments now having a hard time to adjust to their new neighbors who rent for 2 and move in by 10.
And those 10 come tell me how they Skyping 24/7. I am living it, you just see something, heard something, imagining something else...

And trust me, I was just like you when I was faaar away from all of it. Now I am here. And I am getting sick of it.
Some immigrants are different from others. Unfortunately this immigration wave is just using the country!!!

[tloonya]

Mar 15, 2014 19:53:17 GMT -5 @xmascookie said:

On this topic. I used to work with a very sweet Mexican woman who would not learn to speak English.

We had little trouble communicating because we talked with our hands a lot and I remember a little Spanish or would ask another Mexican woman for translation.

Except she retired and moved but still I run into her occasionally.

And she always tells me to call her. But I can't call her cause I can't speak Spanish.

That's funny.

But for another your post, giving kid another name isn't stupid.
They do give kids in Spanish classes Spanish names.
I am not sure how it works for actually Hispanic kids but for everyone else it is cool because 'program' thinks kid will feel more Spanish if they have name in that language. I don't know but they had done exactly that in my DDs school. She was thrilled.

[Deleted]

I think it's stupid. He had a Spanish name he liked and had to use one he didn't.

 What's the point again?

[tloonya]

Mar 16, 2014 0:50:54 GMT -5 cronewitch said:

...
I worked with many people who spoke English very poorly so if they needed something they brought the kids to talk for them. The kids as young as 5 or 6 were totally bilingual no matter what country the parents were from. If you are born here you should learn English even if you start school not knowing any. If you come before you are 14 you should learn it eventually but if you come after 50 you are excused in my opinion but you shouldn't be working answering phones or anywhere you need to be understood.

I've almost missed it, cronewitch.
Why people fighting it? Aren't everyone on the same page here?
I see how frustrated people get in real life when they are trying to explain 'I can not eat pork' and waiter goes 'pork, pork'.
So customer says 'do you have anything that contain no pork?' and waiter goes 'no pork'...and customer goes 'which dish has no pork'?
And waiter continuing 'pork, pork'...so customer (my muslim boss from the past times) goes - 'well, I guess I will drink tea and you guys just order whatever you want...'

It is plain wrong! And somewhat frustrating.

[tloonya]

Mar 16, 2014 3:30:55 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Loony isn't asking that immigrants be master linguists, just that they demonstrate a minimum comprehension of the national language. It's a reasonable demand.

An individual who lacks a baseline ability to communicate is a liability. From a safety standpoint, a civic duty standpoint, a can-follow-instructions standpoint, etc.  Moreover, such an individual is a drain on other workers' time as they struggle in vain to convey simple ideas.

I haven't come across a single person who claimed not to have successfully learned a new language if they diligently studied the basics and then immersed themselves in conversations in that language, with a strong determination to correct any mistakes and accept corrective feedback. Many reported great success in a matter of weeks. And for those who weren't interested in speaking a language well, just getting by, they could at least tell the difference between "cream cheese" and "Central Park".

Thanks.

Story for you. I had once a new hired co-worker asked me if I can show her silver. I had explained that I am not wearing jewelry.
She smiled and nodded and said something and then asked me about silver room...and then it hit me SERVER ROOM
Sure! I took her there. However whole team was completely in uproar because we were stressed out, she was asking, we couldn't understand, we felt ashamed. So the end of it was that she was given individual assignment and everything on her computer was
reinstalled in her language - so her boss was bitching about inability to see whatever ta heck she is doing...
The only question hanged is who ta heck hired her?

[tloonya]

Mar 17, 2014 11:58:33 GMT -5 @xmascookie said:

I think it's stupid. He had a Spanish name he liked and had to use one he didn't.

 What's the point again?

No, dear. They had tried to make it fun. I have to ask my DD what were they doing with kids with Spanish names in our school.
And it is about discipline too. What do you mean you don't like it? I do not like logarithm stuff but I had to do it! Right?

[tloonya]

Mar 16, 2014 1:04:25 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

LOL! Loony, of all people, complaining about people not speaking English. Nice.

Sweety, I love you, but your written English is terrible. It's close enough to be understandable, most of the time, but it takes some guess work. I wouldn't be too vocal in wanting a written English test to get a green card if I was you.

I love you to. Call me. I speak better than I write. And I have that...voice...you know...