giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Jun 3, 2014 14:36:56 GMT -5
If she resists, AFTER you ask and make clear that she goes and tries to get help or you're done, then you know all you need to know about how she REALLY feels about you/your marriage. This isn't a case of "if she really loves me, she will change." That doesn't work. OP's wife has issues. She's content with them or doesn't want to go through the work/pain of improving herself. This has nothing to do with how she values (or doesn't value the marriage.)
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Jun 3, 2014 14:40:58 GMT -5
If she resists, AFTER you ask and make clear that she goes and tries to get help or you're done, then you know all you need to know about how she REALLY feels about you/your marriage. This isn't a case of "if she really loves me, she will change." That doesn't work. OP's wife has issues. She's content with them or doesn't want to go through the work/pain of improving herself. This has nothing to do with how she values (or doesn't value the marriage.) Yeah, it does. If she doesn't care enough about the man she chose to marry to stop making her issues his fault, then she only values the marriage as a way to have a whipping boy. "Issues" are not the get out of jail free card for being an ass. This is why I said after he's been crystal clear about his position. Not every issue is unfixable. She can either decide she wants to know WHAT is wrong and seek help or she's happy with the status quo (which we all know she is) and jras gets to make his decision on how HE wants to live and be treated.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 3, 2014 14:55:03 GMT -5
I don't think it'll matter one whit if the OP tells her 'get counseling or I walk". She's been this way for a LONG time. He said in the first post that she's still holding grudges over stuff that happened 10 years ago!
She ain't changing, she's made that perfectly clear.
If it'll make him feel better and give closure to issue the ultimatum then by all means do so, but I don't think she's going to have a wake-up call any time soon. It'll just be one more thing she can use to blame her miserable existence on him.
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Jun 3, 2014 14:56:49 GMT -5
After he's been clear with her about how he feels about how she's been treating him, he will be able to walk guilt free if he wants. Most people will feel guilty if they don't do something similar. We all know how she's going to respond, but at least he'll know he was perfectly completely honest and clear. That's all most of us really want when we're giving up on something we thought we could make work.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Jun 3, 2014 15:03:41 GMT -5
This isn't a case of "if she really loves me, she will change." That doesn't work. OP's wife has issues. She's content with them or doesn't want to go through the work/pain of improving herself. This has nothing to do with how she values (or doesn't value the marriage.) Yeah, it does. If she doesn't care enough about the man she chose to marry to stop making her issues his fault, then she only values the marriage as a way to have a whipping boy. "Issues" are not the get out of jail free card for being an ass. This is why I said after he's been crystal clear about his position. Not every issue is unfixable. She can either decide she wants to know WHAT is wrong and seek help or she's happy with the status quo (which we all know she is) and jras gets to make his decision on how HE wants to live and be treated. But you are assuming OP's wife doesn't see it that the OP is the whipping boy. Maybe she sees herself as the victim, where things aren't all her fault. What the OPs wife sees, and what OP and we see are two different things...likely. I agree that jras knows his wife is not interested in help for whatever reason, and needs to plan accordingly. And issues are not a get out of free jail card. But, if she truly believes in her heart of hearts that it's not her, it doesn't mean she sees him as a a whipping boy. It's hard to explain. If you asked my mom "Are you emotionally abusive and treat your husband and kid poorly." The answer would be no. She doesn't see it that way. She does not intentionally wakes up every day and says "I'm going to see how badly I can hurt them today." It's like Marie from Everyone loves Raymond. Everyone else thinks Marie is imposing and has boundary issues except for her. It doesn't mean she's intentionally trying to hurt the rest of the family.
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Jun 3, 2014 15:26:35 GMT -5
Yeah, it does. If she doesn't care enough about the man she chose to marry to stop making her issues his fault, then she only values the marriage as a way to have a whipping boy. "Issues" are not the get out of jail free card for being an ass. This is why I said after he's been crystal clear about his position. Not every issue is unfixable. She can either decide she wants to know WHAT is wrong and seek help or she's happy with the status quo (which we all know she is) and jras gets to make his decision on how HE wants to live and be treated. But you are assuming OP's wife doesn't see it that the OP is the whipping boy. Maybe she sees herself as the victim, where things aren't all her fault. What the OPs wife sees, and what OP and we see are two different things...likely. I agree that jras knows his wife is not interested in help for whatever reason, and needs to plan accordingly. And issues are not a get out of free jail card. But, if she truly believes in her heart of hearts that it's not her, it doesn't mean she's a whipping boy. It's hard to explain. If you asked my mom "Are you emotionally abusive and treat your husband and kid poorly." The answer would be no. She doesn't see it that way. She does not intentionally wakes up every day and says "I'm going to be the biggest b*tch I can to my family. I'm going to see how badly I can hurt them today." It's like Marie from Everyone loves Raymond. Everyone else thinks Marie is imposing and has boundary issues except for her. It doesn't mean she's intentionally trying to hurt the rest of the family. And did everyone ever say anything to Marie? It's why I emphasized that he should definitely tell her in no uncertain terms how her behavior is making him feel and ask if she will seek help to find out if she does have a problem, be it medical or mental. I may not have had the childhood you did, but I have my own relatives that have no clue how hateful they're being when they're being "helpful". One is 96 so there isn't going to be a come to Jesus talk with her. The other is my mom and should I ever decide to sit her down and say what I think and she chose to ignore how she was making me feel and make no effort to do things differently, then yeah, I'd be a lot less pained about not interacting with her anymore. As it is, I just ignore her. My point is that once he has been absolutely clear with her and she still doesn't understand or see it that way, he has a clearer path to make the decisions he needs to make. He can decide to put up with her and get counseling on how to do so or he can walk. BUT continuing on this way round and round like they are doesn't seem to be an option.
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kittensaver
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We cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. - Mother Teresa
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Post by kittensaver on Jun 3, 2014 15:35:42 GMT -5
But you are assuming OP's wife doesn't see it that the OP is the whipping boy. Maybe she sees herself as the victim, where things aren't all her fault. What the OPs wife sees, and what OP and we see are two different things...likely. I agree that jras knows his wife is not interested in help for whatever reason, and needs to plan accordingly. And issues are not a get out of free jail card. But, if she truly believes in her heart of hearts that it's not her, it doesn't mean she's a whipping boy. It's hard to explain. If you asked my mom "Are you emotionally abusive and treat your husband and kid poorly." The answer would be no. She doesn't see it that way. She does not intentionally wakes up every day and says "I'm going to be the biggest b*tch I can to my family. I'm going to see how badly I can hurt them today." It's like Marie from Everyone loves Raymond. Everyone else thinks Marie is imposing and has boundary issues except for her. It doesn't mean she's intentionally trying to hurt the rest of the family. And did everyone ever say anything to Marie? It's why I emphasized that he should definitely tell her in no uncertain terms how her behavior is making him feel and ask if she will seek help to find out if she does have a problem, be it medical or mental. I may not have had the childhood you did, but I have my own relatives that have no clue how hateful they're being when they're being "helpful". One is 96 so there isn't going to be a come to Jesus talk with her. The other is my mom and should I ever decide to sit her down and say what I think and she chose to ignore how she was making me feel and make no effort to do things differently, then yeah, I'd be a lot less pained about not interacting with her anymore. As it is, I just ignore her. My point is that once he has been absolutely clear with her and she still doesn't understand or see it that way, he has a clearer path to make the decisions he needs to make. He can decide to put up with her and get counseling on how to do so or he can walk. BUT continuing on this way round and round like they are doesn't seem to be an option.At least not an option if long-term he wants to keep his life, self-esteem, dignity, sanity, happiness and financial stability intact
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Jun 3, 2014 15:40:37 GMT -5
POTD
OP, I think it's pretty clear that you need to advise her that she gets counseling (with or without you) or you're going to get going.
This is not a healthy situation for either of you.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2014 17:05:24 GMT -5
Good luck OP!!!
That is all I got, you have some tough choices ahead!
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Jun 3, 2014 17:56:36 GMT -5
Sorry things haven't gotten better but there's no point in two people being unhappy when it really boils down to one of those people being miserable and not at least trying to get help or work through it. Holding on to things that happened years and years ago isn't healthy and isn't fair to you. At a point you have to worry about your own well being because the stress of it all isn't worth the early grave it may put you in. Good luck.
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plugginaway22
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Post by plugginaway22 on Jun 3, 2014 18:11:13 GMT -5
All I can say is best of luck to you, this sounds very difficult to come home to. Take care of yourself so you have energy and mindfulness to deal.
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taz157
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Post by taz157 on Jun 3, 2014 20:22:22 GMT -5
All I can say is best of luck to you, this sounds very difficult to come home to. Take care of yourself so you have energy and mindfulness to deal.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jun 3, 2014 20:38:12 GMT -5
Your counselor should advise you to leave this situation. If they don't, seek another counselor.
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