marriage ...update @ # 50

[jras]

Hi all, Ras here. I went dark some time ago and just re-registered due to a pressing personal issue. I have nowhere else to turn. I have seen several people spill their guts in here about non-financial personal issues over the past few months. And now it’s my turn.

So my wife…   darn, things are not good. And I love her so much.

She doesn’t work and there is no one else around here for her to talk with. We have no kids. There is no family around here. She spends her days at home ruminating about old slights, building them up bigger and bigger and bigger until it scares me to death. Now I am not faultless and innocent here. I am the cause of her original hurts from 10 years ago, which is to my eternal shame (no affairs, no wandering, no drinking, no drugging, no bad behavior, just some interpersonal hurts). We get past them and then she seems to reopen them later and dwell and obsess about them.

She is ready to throw everything away. I just can’t see that.

I don’t know what to do.

I love her very much. And it seems that no matter what I do just pisses her off and alienates her.

No kids. we're both in early 50's. Her second marriage, my first.

No, this is not like a D#xie thread. No, I am not a troll.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

#1 Your wife needs to see her GP and a therapist STAT, she may be experiencing depression

#2 For a social life has she tried MeetUp.com?  Lots of local social groups with varying interests will sign up looking for people to join.  Does she have any hobbies or things she'd like to try?

[tloonya]

Is it possible for her to find some job?

[souldoubt]

Why doesn't she work?  Really regardless of the answer (disabled, retired, wealthy, etc) sitting around doing nothing all day while having no social life will drive anyone up a wall and isn't healthy long term.  I second drama's recommendations because if she is depressed or has some other issues she needs to work out it's not going to happen sitting at home alone all day doing nothing. 

[buystoys]

Mar 11, 2014 14:05:08 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

#1 Your wife needs to see her GP and a therapist STAT, she may be experiencing depression

#2 For a social life has she tried Meet.com?  Lots of local social groups with varying interests will sign up looking for people to join.  Does she have any hobbies or things she'd like to try?

Do you belong to a church?  Do they have regular women's activities?  Our church has a monthly quilting bee, for example, which is a great social activity for a home maker.  Where are her friends?  Are they just not local or does she not have many/any?

[justme]

Couple's therapy might be called for two - though she probably needs to go individually first for a while. If individual therapy doesn't help her get past the hurt (or things get worse) couple's therapy might.

[giramomma]

I'm sorry you are going through this. I don't have much to add to what drama has said..

Besides depression, there may be other mental health issues at play.

Are you quite sure that she never leaves the house? Do you work? Are you with her 24/7?

You also might want to pick up the book "Boundaries" by Cloud and Townsend and find a therapist for yourself.  My mom is like your wife. She will bring up past hurts that are 30+ years old. And not just to dad, but to me as well (and I'm not even 40 yet..).  Anyway, from what I've seen and experienced in my own family dynamics, it's rather verbally and emotionally abusive. And you don't have to take that, even if the underlying issue is a mental illness.

ETA: You also need to figure out what you will do if your wife chose not to seek treatment. Not everyone who has mental illnesses/depression/etc wants to get better.

[CarolinaKat]

I agree with Drama about the GP and Therapist. She does sound like she's suffering from clinical depression. She also may have some other health I ssue that needs addressing.

I also think after the Dr/Therapist, maybe you can suggest she works part-time or voulenteers with an organization so she can have some structure to her time and have more contact with people, and holpfully build a network of friends.

I am so sorry, and I hope you two can work through this.

[giramomma]

Why did her first marriage end?

[tloonya]

Mar 11, 2014 14:02:37 GMT -5 jras said:

Hi all, Ras here. I went dark some time ago and just re-registered due to a pressing personal issue. I have nowhere else to turn. I have seen several people spill their guts in here about non-financial personal issues over the past few months. And now it’s my turn.

So my wife…   darn, things are not good. And I love her so much.

She doesn’t work and there is no one else around here for her to talk with. We have no kids. There is no family around here. She spends her days at home ruminating about old slights, building them up bigger and bigger and bigger until it scares me to death. Now I am not faultless and innocent here. I am the cause of her original hurts from 10 years ago, which is to my eternal shame (no affairs, no wandering, no drinking, no drugging, no bad behavior, just some interpersonal hurts). We get past them and then she seems to reopen them later and dwell and obsess about them.

She is ready to throw everything away. I just can’t see that.

I don’t know what to do.

I love her very much. And it seems that no matter what I do just pisses her off and alienates her.

No kids. we're both in early 50's. Her second marriage, my first.

No, this is not like a D#xie thread. No, I am not a troll.

I know there is a lot in this phrase! And if you talk to a pro - there is a key. Just don't remember what they say about it.

[mmhmm]

How does your wife feel about what's going on, Ras?  Aside from dwelling on old issues and problems, has she expressed unhappiness with the current state of things?  How do you think she would react to the suggestion to see a therapist?

[jras]

Wife doesn't work for health issues. Same for not working out at gym, etc. She sees our marriage as a replication of her failed first marriage. Yes, depression is likely a big player, for both of us. Although she sees her depression as due to her presence in our marriage.

I suspect she is at an age where she may be subject to hormonal issues. That may have very little to do with all this but it may be a partial aggravator, but I am not going to bring that up.

I don't know how to convince her that yes, I do love her, more than anyone, ever. I was a bit wishy-washy in the beginning which is the basic source of our angst, but I have not been so for many many years. I tell her she's the best, the greatest, I treat her special, I make no demands of her, I tell her she's beautiful (she is), she's smart (she is), that I love touching her and cuddling her, I try to tell express all those special things, and it just hurts her or pisses her off. I used to respond angrily, now I do not.

If she wants a divorce should I contest?

[NancysSummerSip]

Ras, she may be depressed. She sounds angry. And not necessarily at you. It just so happens that you are the most convenient target, and you have a history of past issues, so it's easy for her to pin her tail of pain on your donkey, so to speak. She has no reason to get up in the morning, no reason to focus on anything else but you. No job, kids, family members, hobbies, activities. You say you get past the hurts, only to have them reopened. But while you may get past them and move on, she isn't. She has nothing else to concentrate on except what bothers her.

I would find it hard to live in a dark place like that, but for some people, it's all they know. It's oddly comforting for them to keep revisiting old territory, painful though it is, because they know it so well.

She does need professional help to find out why she keeps reliving that same time period over and over, and what kind of satisfaction she keeps getting from it. To the average mind, which moves in a linear direction, beyond the past and into the future, her behavior does seem juvenile and regressive. I am wondering 1) what ended her first marriage, and 2) what her parents' marriage was like.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

You can't convince someone that doesn't apparently want to be convinced.  And unfortunately you cannot make her work on her issues either.

This is just me, but if my DH was blaming me for all his problems and becoming a shut in I would have no issues telling him he needs ot get off his butt and get help.  I can't make him and I'd have to decide what to do in the event he refuses, but no way would I sit quietly, I owe it to our marriage to be honest.

At least then I can say I tried.  I said my piece and left the ball in his court.  No way I'd just let him divorce me b/c he sits around all day convincing himself he's miserable.

[souldoubt]

Mar 11, 2014 14:31:30 GMT -5 jras said:

If she wants a divorce should I contest?

Of course this is easier to say not being in your situation but if she won't take the steps to try and get help why would you want to stay in a relationship like that?  Sounds like it's give take and that's not healthy.

[tloonya]

Mar 11, 2014 14:31:30 GMT -5 jras said:

Wife doesn't work for health issues. Same for not working out at gym, etc. She sees our marriage as a replication of her failed first marriage. Yes, depression is likely a big player, for both of us. Although she sees her depression as due to her presence in our marriage.

I suspect she is at an age where she may be subject to hormonal issues. That may have very little to do with all this but it may be a partial aggravator, but I am not going to bring that up.

I don't know how to convince her that yes, I do love her, more than anyone, ever. I was a bit wishy-washy in the beginning which is the basic source of our angst, but I have not been so for many many years. I tell her she's the best, the greatest, I treat her special, I make no demands of her, I tell her she's beautiful (she is), she's smart (she is), that I love touching her and cuddling her, I try to tell express all those special things, and it just hurts her or pisses her off. I used to respond angrily, now I do not.

If she wants a divorce should I contest?

I am swear I want to be nice. However a question I want to ask...why do you want to be with this depressed, pissed of at you all the time person? Seriously. Tell us about what do you love her for? I think it might be easier this way to crack the code.

[jras]

Thanks Nancy. I've always appreciated your well-grounded insights.

Yes, she's been angry about a lot of things for a few years. Very angry at some of her family members, to the point of severing ties with them.

She's quite insightful into people and herself. I don't know why she drives this pattern. I fell into a pattern of reply to it but I have tried to break that, a long time ago. She has all the time in the world to ponder things and reflect and surf and read. I have to go to work, maintain the house, etc. It's not fair that she can 'jiu jitsu' me this way...using what she learns in her studies to twist me up.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Sounds like she might be bi-polar if there is a pattern to her behavior.

Unfortunately that's a much more difficult beast to deal with than routine depression.

You might have to decide if you want to stay with someone who refuses to get a handle on her inner demons.  I wouldn't want to be with someone who refuses to get help and instead blames me for all the wrongs in her life.

I'd say my piece about getting help and then be prepared to walk.

[giramomma]

Besides Boundaries, I'd also add "Codependant No More" to you reading list. And, maybe even see if there's a CoDA group in your area.

Are you also absolutely sure that your wife is not cultivating friendships online..getting her emotional needs met from someone else?

Some of your wife's behavior could also be attributed to other things, besides depression....

[souldoubt]

Even if she's the smartest and most manipulative person on the planet you let her twist you up by not putting your foot down.  I'm not saying you go home and tell her to get help or get the hell out but you have to start setting some kind of rules or boundaries.  You've tried the nice approach to get her to cheer up but that doesn't appear to do the trick so time for something new.  No matter how much you care about her at a point you have to worry about your well being if she won't take steps to help herself.  

[HoneyBBQ]

Sorry, Ras.

No real suggestions other than the ones already mentioned. Counseling is important.

If you love her, I would contest, at least til you felt you had exhausted every option. Self loathing can be strong, and it sounds like she just feels like a failure and is pushing you away. Dredging up slights from 10 years ago sounds really crazy to me. She needs to learn to forgive and move on... or I guess you can go to through the alternative.

Is she isolated culturally? Not sure why, but I got that vibe for some reason, like she feels like she doesn't belong where she is.

Definitely get counseling if you can.

Thanks for sharing and sorry you are going through this.

[mmhmm]

I know this must be very hard on you, Jas.  As you say, you love her and want your marriage to be happy and secure.  Nobody, however, can make that happen alone.  It takes two.  She has to be onboard with you or it's not going anywhere.  Has she said she wants a divorce, or what are her plans if she has any?

[sheilaincali]

Counseling for her and maybe see if you can do a few couples counseling sessions. 

Hobbies-  she has to get a hobby and get out in the world and meet people.  If the physical issues (reason she doesn't work) preclude that than she needs to maybe find an online message board or something. 

My mom went through something like this and my dad was at his wits end.  He really encouraged my mom to get on some meds (she is a breast cancer survivor and suffered from severe depression during and after treatment).  She joined a couple of card clubs, volunteered with the Relay for Life and started getting out and about more.

Made a huge difference.  Now she has a very active social life.  Was the Chairperson of the local Relay for 6 years.  etc. 

Don't underestimate the importance of having a social outlet and the right meds. 

[Shooby]

As others have said, you should seek some counseling at least for clarity. And, if she is willing to go, all the better. If not, then you need to just go yourself and sort out what you need to do.
As for depression or possible mental health issues, that may be a factor. But, you cannot "undepress" her. You don't have the power to make anyone happy except yourself. And, likewise for her. She has to find her own inner happiness. And, this is a process that you may need to work through. And, while she is at odds with herself the only thing you can do is to continue to be kind and loving and see where it leads.
Carrying resentments through life eats your soul. I struggled with grief and depression. It is like carrying a huge bag of rocks over your shoulder everyday. And, everyday, I make a choice to pick up that bag of rocks or not. Or, to leave it. It took me a process of time and insight to be able to do this. You cannot do this work for her. That is purely on her to resolve her own inner issues. YOu can point her to help and you can work together. That is the only real advice I can give.

[jras]

thank you all for your contributions and insights. I do appreciate them all.

I don't know what the future will bring...tonight, next week, next year. 

 I 'wobbled'  too much in the early days, and that was  very corrosive to her. I have tried to present a strong, decisive position for a long time now. I think I need to maintain that strong decisive stance for now. Even though my stomach now wobbles.

[sesfw]

(((((((( Ras ))))))))) mega hugs to you and DW

I also suggest counseling for both of you. If she won't go, then you go alone.

I was also going to suggest volunteer work but you said health issues.

Good luck in whatever you decide.

[Shooby]

What do you mean by "wobbled"? Dh and I had a lot of early marriage issues to work through. He had issues from childhood and growing up that he brought into our marriage which resulted in a lot of infighting. I tried and tried and then I responded by acting like a childish jerk too. So, we both tossed stones at each other. Unfortunately, sometimes it is easiest to take out our frustrations on the ones we love. We had to simply forgive each other for our spoiled brat ways. What is past is past. He made mistakes and so did I. I really thought we hit the end of the road when our daughter was born. But, 12 years later and our marriage is going strong and now we have learned to relax and have fun again. Sometimes life's pressures have a way of invading and overtaking you. But, that doesn't mean all is lost. There is a possibility of feeling good and at ease with each other again if you both are willing. And, maybe she isn't willing right now. Maybe she will never be. That is an unknown. But, for now, it sounds that you are willing to work on it and that is exactly what you should do via counseling. And, she will either respond to your efforts at some point or not. If not, then at least you have peace knowing you pursued the what you needed to do.

[CarolinaKat]

Mar 11, 2014 15:56:56 GMT -5 jras said:

thank you all for your contributions and insights. I do appreciate them all.

I don't know what the future will bring...tonight, next week, next year. 

 I 'wobbled'  too much in the early days, and that was  very corrosive to her. I have tried to present a strong, decisive position for a long time now. I think I need to maintain that strong decisive stance for now. Even though my stomach now wobbles.

Even though we can be 'mean', we care and are here to be a sounding board.

[NancysSummerSip]

Mar 11, 2014 14:45:25 GMT -5 jras said:

Thanks Nancy. I've always appreciated your well-grounded insights.

Yes, she's been angry about a lot of things for a few years. Very angry at some of her family members, to the point of severing ties with them.

She's quite insightful into people and herself. I don't know why she drives this pattern. I fell into a pattern of reply to it but I have tried to break that, a long time ago. She has all the time in the world to ponder things and reflect and surf and read. I have to go to work, maintain the house, etc. It's not fair that she can 'jiu jitsu' me this way...using what she learns in her studies to twist me up.

Thanks, jras. You mentioned her being angry at family members, to the point of cutting them out of her life. Once those ties are severed, she has fewer and few people to target. Her world has and is, getting smaller and smaller. And as the main "bull's eye," you are getting to be a bigger and easier target, because as you say, you have fallen into a pattern of replying to her.

Time to break the pattern, but I would not suggest doing it with a sledgehammer. You won't accomplish anything, except making her madder and more distant. If you are truly interested in saving and working on this relationship, start by not responding to her when she goes negative. I realize that may mean a lot of silence in your house, but she will keep on her pattern, if she keeps getting what she wants out of you. Obviously, the response you give her (being the sole moneymaker, taking care of the house, etc.) works very well for her. I understand she has health issues, and if these are physical, her GP and any appropriate specialists need to get involved to solve, or at least manage them. Her health issues do not give her the right to cruel, inhuman, heartless or indifferent treatment of her spouse.

[jras]

Mar 11, 2014 16:14:11 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

A very wise person once told me something that has stuck with me. 

"You don't own their issues"   

Meaning,  that each of us either is responsible for ourselves.

To be honest you shouldn't be staying with her out of guilt if that's what is going on.  In the long run it's not good for you or her. 

Yes, very true quote.

And it's not out of guilt that I stay with her. It is out of love for her and "like" for her. I know there is so much good between us, for us. But she becomes blind to that.