A month in Europe: Where would you go?

[Lizard Queen]

Mar 5, 2014 9:24:29 GMT -5 steph08 said:

Mar 5, 2014 8:43:08 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

I did one of those 14 days/10 countries bus tours.  So they took care of getting us there.  And the salt mines are like 700 feet underground.  The carvings are amazing.  I think they're still mining salt there too.  They just do a tour around the workers. 

I can help with this one. My brother and I did the salt mines on our own. It wasn't difficult. The tour book told us which bus to take to get there - pretty easy ride and the mines weren't far from the bus stop. We went in and did have to wait probably a half hour or so until the next English-speaking tour. There were lots of tours going on, but they were all in different languages, so we had to wait.

Two things to consider - to get down into the salt mines, you walk down a lot of stairs. A lot. To get back out of the salt mines, you ride in little tiny elevators crammed with a few other people you don't know. I think that was the worst part of the tour - the ride back up, and neither my brother nor I are scared of elevators/enclosed spaces. It was over pretty quickly though.

I would not miss it, though, if you do end up anywhere near Krakow.  There's nothing else like it in the world.

www.kuriositas.com/2011/08/wieliczka-salt-mine-astounding.html

[steph08]

The carvings were quite amazing! We highly recommend it as well.

[siralynn]

<abbr data-timestamp="1393993749000" class="time" title="Mar 4, 2014 20:29:09 GMT -8">Mar 4, 2014 20:29:09 GMT -8</abbr> apple said:

Mar 4, 2014 23:29:09 GMT -5 Apple said:

siralynn -- did you do Dachau as a tour?  Or did you just take a bus there?  It is one of the places we will likely visit.

We just took a city bus. I don't remember exactly how long it took (maybe 45 min each way?) or what the fare was, but it was reasonably easy to figure out. It was by no means an enjoyable way to spend a day, but it felt like something I needed to do as a member of the human race. Once we got to Dachau, we started with the museum/movie and then wandered the grounds for a little while. There were self-guided audio tours you could rent, but we didn't bother. It was definitely an intense couple of hours, and I spent most of it in tears. Once we got near the ovens, I basically froze up and couldn't take it anymore, so we headed back to Munich proper.

Kind of a strange way to spend a honeymoon day, but I wasn't about to get that close to a concentration camp and not visit. Never need to do it again though! (In contrast, I got the opportunity to visit Hiroshima in summer 2012. It was also very sobering, but didn't effect me nearly as strongly as visiting Dachau.)

[Lizard Queen]

Mar 4, 2014 23:49:44 GMT -5 Apple said:

Wisconsin Beth  -- was it difficult to get to the salt mines?  Do they have it set up like a museum?
                            I can't believe it's only been 25 years since the wall came down!?  Berlin is on the list, and some day I want to go back and spend more time there.

Lizard Queen -- What were your favorite places in Krakow?  Schindler's list was both a great book and a great movie.  I saw the movie before I read the book, and was amazed about the facts behind the girl in the red coat.  She was a real girl, and they knew who she was. 

@debthaven2 -- I LOVE old prisons!  It's like this horrible guilty pleasure.  Things that are fascinating and make me cringe at the same time <shudder>
                         Thanks for all the ideas   Do you mind if I PM you as I get closer to the trip?  I may have some more specific questions by then.  It is a lot of countries, but some will only be a day or two stops, leaving more time for other areas.  I also don't really do shopping, so that gives more time as well (other than food markets and an occasional gift shop if it looks promising.  I don't try to get souvenirs anymore, other than postcards and a Christmas ornament from each country).  We'll be like zombies by the time we are done, always up early and back to the room late (um, usually because I got lost walking around )
                         Is the US cemetery easy to get to?  We'll be limited by the fact it will all have to be trains/buses.  I come from a small town with no buses and a single taxi car, so public transportation is still daunting.

My favorite was the town square--went there every day, and explored from there.


Turn around, and you would see this (but not from this angle--I believe):


and inside:


I also really enjoyed the Wawel (castle).



With a famous bell:
www.krakow-info.com/dzwon.htm

And a dragon:

[Bonny]

Mar 4, 2014 11:09:15 GMT -5 milee said:

You have to PM Bonny. (Sorry, I might be messing up her current screen name - but she was BonnAP for a while as well - know who I mean?)

I think she's done extensive WWII touring in Europe and also just came back from living in Germany.

Apple started a thread a while back, maybe on the travel sub-board about touring WWII sites where I made some suggestions. I agree with @debthaven2 and tskeeter that the Normandy beaches are a "must see". The American museum is very well done and you should start your tour there. Also be sure to go to at least one of the six German cemeteries. It's a very different perspective. I've been to two now and the last one really struck me because of the percentage of "unbekannt" (unknown) was striking. They were buried 3 to a headstone and well over 30% were unknown. When I discussed this with my German tutor she said that by the end of the war families had no idea where their men were stationed. Also at the end of the war supplies had run out and the soldiers were scavenging clothing, boots and whatever from their dead comrades. When the soldiers died it was very difficult to identify who they were at that point.

And it wasn't just the soldiers. Another striking example can be seen at Bonn's Haus der Geschichte (House of History) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haus_der_Geschichtewhere you can see thousands of little 3x5 cards listing families looking for their loved ones. Especially heartbreaking are the old movies of young children whom the authorities were trying to place. They would state their name what they could recall of their family names and where they used to live. They were often the only ones to emerge from the rubble.

Apple, you can easily do 4 or 5 days in Normandy; two or three days touring the WWII sites, Caen and the Bayeaux Tapestry and one day at Mont St Michel. Driving is pretty easy in that part of France and highly recommended unless you take a tour. Debthaven can help you with the train stuff. You can probably fly into Paris, train to Rouen and rent a car from there. BTW Rouen is a very interesting city on its own and I recommend a full day there.

From Paris you can take the Thalys (pronounced Tal us') www.thalys.com/be/en/which is efficient but not as sleek at the French government owned TGV line. Thalys will take you Koeln (Cologne) via Brussles. You get off in Brussels, take the local train to Bruges (Bridges in Flemish). Cute town but you'll want to book that part of your trip early, because both train tickets and lodging fills up. The weekends are crazy but also the most fun.

Do take time to see Koeln. It's not the prettiest city but it is very interesting and I highly recommend spending at least a day there. You should see the Cathedral (and what it looked like after WWII; most of Koeln was a pile of rubble), the Roman Museum with its beautiful Roman mosaic floors in the basement. Koeln (Cologne) is a derivative of the Latin word for Colony and the Roman history is EVERYWHERE. Even the current water system is based on the original Roman aqueduct system. There is also quite a bit of medieval history in Koeln. When I visited they were in the process of unearthing a medieval Jewish quarter right around the corner from the Cathedral.

From Koeln you can head down to Bonn and points south via train or you might consider taking a Rhine Cruise. The Rhine of course WAS the old highway system and there are fascinating stops and castles all along the way. One of the most inspiring books I read was Insights Guide "The Rhine". It's out of print but I picked up mine from Amazon. Great photographs, gives a wonderful back story on this amazing and important river as well as almost a mile by mile description of development along its banks.

Anyway, you're welcomed to PM me if you have further questions. I'm most helpful with Germany, some parts of France but Debthaven obviously is a better resource, Prague and some of the Czech Republic.

Have fun!

[Bonny]

Mar 5, 2014 0:10:03 GMT -5 Apple said:

I remember watching the movie Gallipoli in high school, and at the end, wanting to yell.  I know that wasn't in France, but it was the first time that the messiness of trench fighting really hit me.

Gallipoli is in Turkey. That's a trip all by itself!

If you want the Western European version read or re-read "All Quiet on the Western Front".

 

[tskeeter]

Mar 5, 2014 0:15:37 GMT -5 Apple said:

Mar 4, 2014 19:25:16 GMT -5 tskeeter said:

Apple, I assume that you're going to visit Normandy.  If you are, I think it is well worth the additional cost to take one of the small group guided tours.  Our Normandy guide made the week we spent on the beaches a spectacularly informative trip.  So much so that we're starting to plan to go back for another, more in depth history lesson.

I think one of the things that would be worth seeing is the Maginot Line (I haven't seen it yet).  I think it's kind of a lesson in how complacency and changes in technology came together and allowed the Germans to overrun France in short order.

I asked our Normandy tour guide, a Leeds educated historian and former military historian with the Royal Artillery, for a recommended reading list.  If your son would like study up on the invasion, I'd be willing to share it.

Maybe a  question would would help you and your son plan your trip.  What do you want to get out of this trip?  Do you want to see the terrain where the war was fought?  Try to understand why the war started?  Learn how the war affected the soldiers who fought it?  Find out how the war affected the local population in combat zones?  Learn about how soldiers lived and what kinds of behavior were allowed (think taking of war prizes, how soldiers were housed, and fed, etc.)?  Do you want to learn about the equipment that the soldiers used?  How did the Allies prepare Normandy for the invaision?  How did the Germans prepare to defend against an invasion?  These are the types of questions I might have tried to find answers to if I had been smarter about WWII before we went to France.  Now, I'm planning a return trip to learn answers to questions that I have figured out after having visited Normandy.  And, I'm starting to understand that it may take several trips to learn everything I'd like to know.   

   

Yes

Part of it is just to get the different views of the different people/countries.  I don't think I'll ever understand everything I would like to, but I find it all interesting.  I learned a lot at the Churchill War Rooms about the political/stategics side of things when we went there.

I'd be interested in the reading list.  He reads less about this than he used to, but he's still interested.  When he was little, his uncle's friends enjoyed talking about it with him because he had read so much and really knew his stuff.

Me, I'm more into the "people" aspect, be it the soldiers (either side), prisoners, survivors, families, etc.

Do you have a specific guide/company you would recommend?

Apple, I'll send the reading list soon.


Our group of five used Stuart Robertson of Normandy Battle Tours as our guide, B&B host, and transportation from and to Paris  normandybattletours.com/battlefield-tours/.  I can't say enough good things about Stuart's service.  He made our trip truly an event of a lifetime.  A testimony to Stuart's skill is that he has provided guide and interpretive service to the same individuals several times.  If it ain't great, you try someone else the next time.  Those folks didn't try someone else.  Shortly after we visited Normandy, Stuart was scheduled to guide a tour for members of a strategy class from a Washington area university.  Class members were military officers and US government officials.  I don't think that group was hiring someone from the second string.

Stuart tends to book up well in advance, so contacting him even a year in advance would not be too soon.

Due to licensing requirements for his minibus, Stuart has to limit his tours to a single group/family.  However, there are a number of small group tour companies that conduct tours open to the general public that are well reviewed on Rick Steves web site.  Those tours usually leave from Bayeux hotels.

If you stay in Bayeux, a visit to see the Bayeux Tapestry is interesting.  The tapestry is a pictorial telling of the Norman conquest of Britian by William the Conquerer, which culminated in the Battle of Hastings.

Another worth a visit site in Bayeux is the Bayeux Cathederal.  Wonderful stained glass windows, great stone carving.  I don't know if we just got lucky with lighting, or if the sighting of the building is just right, but I got the best photos of stained glass I have ever been able to take.  We arrived at the catherderal at about 10 AM and found the windows on all sides of the building perfectly lit.  And they stayed perfectly lit during the full hour and a half we spent there.  Often, my stained glass photos have suffered from excessive backlighting or lack of light all together.  Not so in Bayeux.  

[pinkbow832]

Ok, I will post this here incase it helps someone else in planning. Far from a definitive list, just some places I've been and enjoyed.

NETHERLANDS
Amsterdam:
Anne Frank House- definitely worth a visit

BELGIUM
Brussels:
Musee de l’Armee et d’histoires militaires- Army and Military museum
I’ve never been, but my DH and his father went and really loved it

Bruges:
Very easy day trip from Brussels, don’t spend more than a day. It’s a very easy walking city, you can take a little boat on the canals, have lunch, see the Madonna at the Church of Our Lady of Bruges and admire the chocolate shops. Direct trains from Brussels Central station leave hourly (or more frequently, I don’t remember). If you have any questions about the best way to get around Belgium, just let me know. If you each have a rail pass but don’t want to use it for little day trips here and there in Belgium there is another type of pass that makes things cheaper. Not really WWII-related, but everyone seems to love Bruges, so it’s worth a day trip.

Bastogne:
Bastogne War Museum- www.visitbelgium.com/?page=bastogne
Great museum cover the Battle of the Bulge with tons of information, artifacts, a memorial, tank, etc.

LUXEMBOURG
Luxembourg City
There are 2 military cemeteries near one another in Luxembourg City (American and German) and it’s interesting to see the differences between the two. Good sights to see if you’re in the area, but if you’re planning to go to Normandy you can probably skip it since (in my opinion anyway) the American cemetery in Normandy is more impressionable.
Lux-American cemetery- www.abmc.gov/cemeteries/cemeteries/lx.php
Sandweiler German war cemetery- en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandweiler_German_war_cemetery

Diekirch:
National Military History Museum- www.mnhm.lu/www/usa/
Another place that’s worth seeing if you’re in the area. Luxembourg is a really beautiful country and this is kind of in the “center”ish of the country. If you like to hike, great place to spend a day or two hiking and relaxing.

FRANCE
Normandy
Normandy American Cemetery and Memorial- definitely a must-see. Arrange a tour a plan to spend at least a full day. We did this as a day trip by car from Paris and it was a logistical nightmare and we ended up not seeing as much as we would like. Despite the fact that the day was an absolute nightmare, everyone on the trip still rated it as the top thing we did during our 2 week stint in Europe, which speaks volumes.

Reims
Museum of the Surrender- www.reims-tourism.com/museum-of-the-surrender/commune/tabid/15267/offreid/cb2de5af-14c9-4cec-bd29-24db48aae3ee/museum.aspx
General Eisenhower’s supreme headquarters has been preserved and turned into a museum, complete with map room

Compiegne
In the forest of Compiegne is the rail car where the first armistice was signed on 11/11/1918 to end WWI, and the second armistice was signed between Nazi Germany and the French Third Republic in June 1940. www.somme-battlefields.com/battlefields/the_western_front/la_clairiere_et_le_musee_de_l_armistice_oise

Also on the Western Front (WWI history) are several other sights/memorials that we visited on our field trip that were really interesting:
Memorial of the Battle of the Marne and Ossuary- www.somme-battlefields.com/battlefields/the_western_front/memorial_des_batailles_de_la_marne_et_ossuaire_dormans_marne
Someone already mentioned this, it’s the place with all of the bones.
Fort Douaumont: www.tourisme-verdun.fr/en_fort-of-douaumont.php
WWI fort along the Western Front that you can visit. I visited on a rainy day and it was absolutely miserable and creepy, which in all honesty gave a good picture/feeling of what it would have been like to be stationed there.

Northeast France
Fort Hackenbert- maginot-hackenberg.com/accueilanglais.htm
WWII Fort on the Maginot Line in France, the largest fortification on the Maginot Line. Great place for a visit and close to so many other fantastic sights in NE France, Luxembourg, Belgium, and Germany.


GERMANY
Berlin
So many places in Berlin, I’m sure you’ll have a lot of them covered. It’s an interesting city and not at all how I thought it would be, most things are very new. Great walking city and you can see a lot and cover a lot of ground.

Munich
One of my favorite things from Munich (went on another field trip) was going to the White Rose memorial/museum at the University of Munich. I can’t find a website for it, but here’s the Wikipedia page: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Rose
It would be a very powerful place to go with your son, since it’s a memorial for a student-led resistance movement. I highly recommend watching “Sophie Scholl- the Final Days” (aka “Sophie Scholl- Die letzten Tage) regardless of whether you go.

Dachau
I didn’t go to Dachau when many of my friends went, mainly because I already had plans to visit Auschwitz at the end of my study abroad and wasn’t sure if I could handle both of them.

Berchtesgaden- Kehlsteinhaus (Eagle’s Nest)- www.kehlsteinhaus.de/
I went here a couple of years ago and it was pretty awesome. There may be some day tours that go from Munich, or trips that combine it with seeing some castles and other sights in Bavaria

POLAND
Auschwitz- definitely go here. It’s rough, but the tours are absolutely fantastic and it’s a very important historical sight.

Krakow- wonderful city, lots of mentions of other things to do here already.

[Bonny]

Thanks pinkbow832 for mentioning Compiegne. I would start a WWII tour either there or in Berlin. I think it's very hard to understand how WWII made Hitler a leader until you understand how horrible the reparations from WWI were on the German population.

It's also important to note how different things were handled after WWII ended. The Americans didn't extract reparations from Germany (or Japan). We helped rebuild them. That was a game changer in history and helped stabilize the region. Otherwise we could have expected a repeat with the next generation trying to get "even".

[happyhoix]

Luxembourg is a really beautiful country and this is kind of in the “center”ish of the country. If you like to hike, great place to spend a day or two hiking and relaxing.

I lived in Lux for a while years ago and it is a very pretty country. It was part of the Battle of the Bulge - our neighbors remembered how the Germans began retreating from Belgium through Luxembourg during the Battle, and their neighbors starting cutting down trees to lay across the main road in order to hinder the German retreat, so the Americans could catch up with them. However, the only Germans that passed through their village that day were two soldiers on bikes, so after they passed through, the neighbors went out and cut up the fallen trees, dragging them off the main road so that when the American troops came through they wouldn't by slowed down.  Luxembourg didn't have a large standing army and couldn't put up much resistance when Germany invaded, but they apparently had a very active resistance, and my neighbors were active in it.

Luxembourg especially loved General George Patten, and he liked them - when he died, he was buried at the American cemetary in Luxembourg.

[Apple]

You guys are seriously awesome!

Yes, like Bonny mentioned, I'd had a thread in the travel section as well (a while ago), but with it being a "separate board" and the big "don't bump old threads" banner, I thought I'd try here for more ideas.

A coworker almost has me convinced it's really easy to drive over there, so, who knows, I may "risk" it in some of the less populated areas to get around faster. Just have to weigh the price of a rental and gas to the train and time. If I were to go that route, I might stay stationary for a few days, visit some areas that way (and have a good place for doing laundry). I may have access to some bases over there as a civilian, but not positive.

One thing I love to do is just walk around and get completely lost for a while. I eat a ton on vacation, but don't gain weight because of all the walking we do.

[Apple]

Mar 5, 2014 9:24:29 GMT -5 steph08 said:

Mar 5, 2014 8:43:08 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

I did one of those 14 days/10 countries bus tours.  So they took care of getting us there.  And the salt mines are like 700 feet underground.  The carvings are amazing.  I think they're still mining salt there too.  They just do a tour around the workers. 

I can help with this one. My brother and I did the salt mines on our own. It wasn't difficult. The tour book told us which bus to take to get there - pretty easy ride and the mines weren't far from the bus stop. We went in and did have to wait probably a half hour or so until the next English-speaking tour. There were lots of tours going on, but they were all in different languages, so we had to wait.

Two things to consider - to get down into the salt mines, you walk down a lot of stairs. A lot. To get back out of the salt mines, you ride in little tiny elevators crammed with a few other people you don't know. I think that was the worst part of the tour - the ride back up, and neither my brother nor I are scared of elevators/enclosed spaces. It was over pretty quickly though.

Ok, specific question about this part.  I don't mind elevators, even the tiny cage ones crowded with other people (I have to use one of those at work on occasion), but this would terrify my son (he has a couple big fears, elevators, heights, and planes *sigh*).  I know it would be a ton of climbing, but is using the stairs an option to get out?  He would rather walk a hundred flights of stairs than ride an elevator if it's an option (I was in great shape when he was little since we ALWAYS did the stairs).  It may be one of those places I have to go back and visit on my own.  I force him to deal with a lot of his fears, but this is one that would affect too many people and probably not worth the battle.  I'd probably leave it up to him. 

[Apple]

Mar 5, 2014 9:32:22 GMT -5 milee said:

Mar 4, 2014 23:29:09 GMT -5 Apple said:

milee -- thanks for the tip on Ex Officio.  I'll have to start looking them up.  I also get a travel magazine that has some quick wash/dry clothing, so will have to keep my eye on clearance sales.  I prefer to do the trips in the spring, but one good thing about summer is less clothing to haul around.  I would not have thought of ebay.

Any more clothing recommendations?  I'm fine with washing things in the sink and drying them on a line overnight/over two days.  I may have to learn how to wear a dress, seems like that could be easier in some cases

They're not the least expensive way to do it, but I really like those single use Tide packets. Just one packet in a sink full of water is enough to do your hand wash. And the packets are really nicely sealed so no matter what abuse they get, they don't leak.  Detergent is very slippery so anytime I've tried to take a small amount in a travel bottle, it ends up leaking over time, but the individual packets don't. 

www.amazon.com/Tide-Travel-Sink-Packets-3-Count/dp/B000GCS004

I loved these! I used them on the last trip. I've also thought about just bringing a small container of powdered detergent.

[Apple]

Mar 5, 2014 3:28:44 GMT -5 @debthaven2 said:

Do you mind if I PM you as I get closer to the trip?

Of course not! Here is the link to the cemetery I told you about: www.abmc.gov/cemeteries/cemeteries/su.php

I live halfway between there and Versailles, so if the timing works, maybe we can meet up? When are you planning your trip? We usually go away for 2-3 weeks at some point between mid-July and late Aug. 

The other thing is, you can get VERY cheap flights from Paris to other European cities. My Polish cleaner just flew to Poland with her BF for 50e round trip per person. You might want to fly to Poland early and make your way back by train, or take the train there and fly back at the end. 

Last thing, the French train system has a thing called "Prem's" (sic) which means "first". As soon as train tix go on sale, a certain number of cheap tix are available. They can be very cheap, but they are non-refundable and non-exchangeable. 

ETA: Mont St Michel is gorgeous but it's "out of the way" ... it's about 5 hours from Paris, so far even for an overnight trip.

That would be cool!  Right now I'm aiming for June 2015.  I need to look at my son's school calendar to see when his last day is.  He will probably have too many AP tests to leave during the spring. 

[sheilaincali]

My apologizes- The following is an exact copy/paste from the message I received from my son's German partner.  Keep in mind his is 15 and obsessed with pop culture (not history)

i would recommend visiting bavaria - munich. because this city is reeeaally german. that would be the stereotype of germany you would think of with lederhosen and all that stuff. but thats not all what its about. on the other hand it is a very beautiful modern city

So um yeah.  That wasn't super helpful.  His mom only speaks German but I will message her and get her take on it as well.  She isn't as active on FB so it may take a couple of days for her to respond.

[Bonny]

Mar 5, 2014 14:48:02 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Luxembourg is a really beautiful country and this is kind of in the “center”ish of the country. If you like to hike, great place to spend a day or two hiking and relaxing.

Luxembourg especially loved General George Patten, and he liked them - when he died, he was buried at the American cemetary in Luxembourg.

It's Patton.

[Deleted]

Apple, then we have PLENTY of time! 

[tskeeter]

Mar 5, 2014 15:25:18 GMT -5 Apple said:

Mar 5, 2014 3:28:44 GMT -5 @debthaven2 said:

Do you mind if I PM you as I get closer to the trip?

Of course not! Here is the link to the cemetery I told you about: www.abmc.gov/cemeteries/cemeteries/su.php

I live halfway between there and Versailles, so if the timing works, maybe we can meet up? When are you planning your trip? We usually go away for 2-3 weeks at some point between mid-July and late Aug. 

The other thing is, you can get VERY cheap flights from Paris to other European cities. My Polish cleaner just flew to Poland with her BF for 50e round trip per person. You might want to fly to Poland early and make your way back by train, or take the train there and fly back at the end. 

Last thing, the French train system has a thing called "Prem's" (sic) which means "first". As soon as train tix go on sale, a certain number of cheap tix are available. They can be very cheap, but they are non-refundable and non-exchangeable. 

ETA: Mont St Michel is gorgeous but it's "out of the way" ... it's about 5 hours from Paris, so far even for an overnight trip.

That would be cool!  Right now I'm aiming for June 2015.  I need to look at my son's school calendar to see when his last day is.  He will probably have too many AP tests to leave during the spring. 

Apple, here is the reading list that Stuart put together for me.  All of the books are currently available on Amazon, although a few are a bit expensive.  I'd bet your local library will have at least some of them, also.  I assume that Stuart prepared this list in order of the books that he considers most relevant and interesting for us.

Joseph Balkoski

• Omaha Beach: D-Day, June 6, 1944
• Utah Beach: The Anphibious Landing and Airborne Operations on D-Day, June 6, 1944

George Koskimaki

• D-Day with the Screaming Eagles  (this is of particular interest because the drop zone for this unit was just across the lane from Stuart & Jenny's B&B)

 

Chester Wilmot

• The Struggle for Europe

Robin Neillands

• D-day 1944
• The Battle of Normandy: 1944 The Final Verdict

This last book is my addition.  I liked it because it helped someone like me, who has never been in the service, get a sense for what Allied units encountered when they landed in Normandy and what it might be like to be involved something like D-Day.

Robert Murphy

• No Better Place to Die: Ste-Mere Eglise, June 1944 - The Battle for la Fiere Bridge

 

[Wisconsin Beth]

You should probably check on the elevator for the salt mines - as I recall it wasn't super fast.  I'm sure they've dealt with people scared of elevators before so they might have a process in place. 

[sesfw]

I'll probably have to make do with washing things in the sink,

I tried that with cotton socks in Vienna and the humidity level was so high it took several days for them to dry enough to even think of wearing them.  Undies were the real problem.  LOL  (take panty-liners)

We visited a salt mine in Halstatt, Germany and took the slide down to the lower levels.  They even had a camera set up and clocked your speed down.  We had to wear a special suit over our clothes and it's a fun picture.  We rode on rail cars getting back up.

Watch for pick-pockets.  They will take anything.  One tried to lift my cell phone in London and what stopped him was the sound of Velcro coming open.

Have a great time and don't try to overthink this.  Enjoy what comes even if it isn't on the schedule.

[olderburgher]

Omaha Beach where my Dad came ashore in June of 1944.

[Apple]

Mar 6, 2014 12:57:35 GMT -5 sesfw said:

I'll probably have to make do with washing things in the sink,

I tried that with cotton socks in Vienna and the humidity level was so high it took several days for them to dry enough to even think of wearing them.  Undies were the real problem.  LOL  (take panty-liners)

We visited a salt mine in Halstatt, Germany and took the slide down to the lower levels.  They even had a camera set up and clocked your speed down.  We had to wear a special suit over our clothes and it's a fun picture.  We rode on rail cars getting back up.

Watch for pick-pockets.  They will take anything.  One tried to lift my cell phone in London and what stopped him was the sound of Velcro coming open.

Have a great time and don't try to overthink this.  Enjoy what comes even if it isn't on the schedule.

Ok, that one would be awesome!!  Do you have any specific info on it?

We've been lucky about pick-pockets.  Were really warned about it when we went to Rome, I bought a money pouch that velcros to my leg under my pants, that worked out well.  I'd just pull a little cash out to carry, and if I really needed something, I might visit a bathroom first, or I'd just pull up my pants

We did sink laundry in London last time, and it was also cotton.  Took a long time to dry but we were staying in one place so we could wait easily enough.

[Apple]

Mar 6, 2014 11:49:21 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

You should probably check on the elevator for the salt mines - as I recall it wasn't super fast.  I'm sure they've dealt with people scared of elevators before so they might have a process in place. 

Yeah, it's just the elevator itself.  He really hates them.  I'm sure they have dealt with fears, but when he's 6'2", over 200 pounds, there is only so much "get on that NOW" I can do.  He will ride them when he has to, but if it's a bad day and the fear takes over...?  I don't know if it's phobia-level, but I don't want to put him through that either.  I already make him fly

[Lizard Queen]

Mar 6, 2014 14:11:39 GMT -5 Apple said:

Mar 6, 2014 11:49:21 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

You should probably check on the elevator for the salt mines - as I recall it wasn't super fast.  I'm sure they've dealt with people scared of elevators before so they might have a process in place. 

Yeah, it's just the elevator itself.  He really hates them.  I'm sure they have dealt with fears, but when he's 6'2", over 200 pounds, there is only so much "get on that NOW" I can do.  He will ride them when he has to, but if it's a bad day and the fear takes over...?  I don't know if it's phobia-level, but I don't want to put him through that either.  I already make him fly

When I was a kid, I convinced myself that I would die in a plane crash in my mid-30's.  Now that I'm 41, I'm creeped out by flying.  I'm also creeped out my mines/being underground and the mine elevator.  My trip there was so long ago, I don't remember all the details, but I sort of remember considering whether I could walk back up the stairs instead of taking the elevator.  Seems like you possibly could, if there wasn't another group coming down (but don't count on that).  It ended up that I was so tired, I took the elevator anyway.

[sesfw]

Ok, that one would be awesome!! Do you have any specific info on it?

Do a web search on Halstatt Austria.  It's a very small mountain town and it's snowed in literally for 8-9 months of the year.  We were there during the Corpus Christi celebration and that was really great.  They did the parade on boats on the lake.

You might find a tour to go on for this visit.  We were on a bus from Vienna and as I remember took a couple of hours to get there.  We stayed 2 nights and it was great.  If you are prone to motion sickness ........ Dramamine is the answer.  It's a winding mountain road and so beautiful.

[Bonny]

Laundry;

Buy nylon/polyester undergarments (sports bras are fine) you can pick up stuff at Target.

Probably worth it to spend some money on the quick-dry shirts you can get at REI or Columbia. Both of which you can buy off the "outlet" stores on-line if you know they fit well.

There are also Laundromats in most cities. Ask your hotel host. When a girlfriend and I were hiking in the Swiss Alps I took off for a couple of hours to wash my jeans and to give everything a good wash. I had a great time drinking a glass of wine in a tiny hotel across from the Laundromat and playing translator between an older French couple and the young German-speaking concierge.  

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Probably worth it to spend some money on the quick-dry shirts you can get at REI or Columbia. Both of which you can buy off the "outlet" stores on-line if you know they fit well.

Eddie Bauer is also carrying these clothes, not only shirts but pants/shorts as well. They're not inexpensive, but the outlet puts them on sale regularly so I imagine that the catalog does too.

FWIW, laundry mats are as rare as hen's teeth in Turkey. My Turkish friend laughed at me when I asked her if she knew where there was one in Istanbul, and I never found one in the 5 cities/towns we hit either. I broke down and used the hotel's laundry service instead. It really wasn't horribly priced and it was nice to wear clean, non wrinkled clothing for awhile.

[Apple]

I'm making a list of good clothing brands for travel.  I do get one catalog still that I've bought a few items from in the past.  With Columbia being a NW brand, I can usually find a ton of it in Portland.

Bras are something I can't compromise on (no "shelf bras" or "sports bras" for me, haven't found one that offers any support).  I have one I like that is real lacy and airy, so should dry fast.  I'll try it out and if it works well, I'll order some more of those.

I'll gather up the places suggested here and show them to the kiddo, get him to start thinking about things. 

I've emailed my dad's cousin, hopefully I'll be able to get info on the France family soon.

And, as I mentioned, kiddo is terrified of flying.  But, last night I told him the dates I was thinking of for the trip and he said "ok".  This is a pretty big improvement over how he's reacted to other trips.  He always loves it once he's there, but thinking of flying ruins the anticipation for him.  I'll take what I can get.

[tskeeter]

Mar 7, 2014 9:51:19 GMT -5 Bonny said:

Laundry;

Buy nylon/polyester undergarments (sports bras are fine) you can pick up stuff at Target.

Probably worth it to spend some money on the quick-dry shirts you can get at REI or Columbia. Both of which you can buy off the "outlet" stores on-line if you know they fit well.

There are also Laundromats in most cities. Ask your hotel host. When a girlfriend and I were hiking in the Swiss Alps I took off for a couple of hours to wash my jeans and to give everything a good wash. I had a great time drinking a glass of wine in a tiny hotel across from the Laundromat and playing translator between an older French couple and the young German-speaking concierge.  

I'm with Bonny, doing some of the things that local residents do is often part of the fun.  DW and I tell the story about doing laundry at a laundromat in Versailles.  We didn't realize that all of the machines were controlled from a single controller/money box.  A fellow and his poodle (dogs are everywhere in France, and extraordinarily well behaved), who were doing laundry, showed us how things work.  Kind of fun.  Between DW's fractured French and the fellow's English he got the message accross.  Almost any kind of store is fun to visit to see what products we recognize and what products are different.  I like grocery stores, Dad likes hardware stores or home centers.  Or, try hanging in the park with the locals on a warm afternoon or evening. 

[Apple]

I sat down this weekend, gathered all the ideas by country and put them into a single document.  Holy crap!  So many places, and that's before adding the things I know I want to see

Thanks again for all the ideas and help.  I'm sure I'll be asking more questions as things get closer. 

One thing I'll really need to start looking into will be where we stay--figure out if it would be better to base ourselves in a room for several days, going out from there, or if it would be better to travel, getting rooms as we reach new places.  I think cost will play into a lot of that (transportation vs room).