Would you love your kids just as much...

[Lizard Queen]

I wasn't a baby/kid person before I had kids, so my main reason for wanting some were wanting biological kids.  Now that I have 2 of my own, I sometimes wonder if they're mine, even though I gave birth to them and they were conceived with no help. For example, DS1 is a chatterbox, while DH and I are both the opposite.

[thyme4change]

Feb 19, 2014 22:05:36 GMT -5 @anne81 said:

My love for my bio-child has changed and grown over time.  Even if you love your kid fiercely from day one it still changes as the kid grows and interacts.  I'm sure it's the same for all parents however their family is created.

One of the funny things I've noticed about adopted/non-bio kids in families is that they still seem really physically similar to their non-bio parents if they are close - maybe it's in the gestures, or facial expressions, or body language.

I told someone once how much her daughter looked like her - adopted.  So I said: "ummmm - well you picked out one that looks just like you."  I felt like such an ass.

There was an Asian looking girl in my daughter's class, and her parents were not Asian, but you could tell they all belonged together.  They were all dressed up and very proper all the time.  They were a really nice family, but a little uptight.

[Sum Dum Gai]

True if it was 100% bullet proof

1 round turns into two, then 3... Then maybe the 4th one will be the one.

And you don't get a refund!

You'd have to do some research and probably consult with a fertility clinic near you, but implanting viable sperm into a viable egg has a pretty high success rate.  Fertility treatment usually gets expensive when there are problems on her end carrying to term.  As far as you guys know she's fine, and you're basically fine, just with a low sperm count.  You're both young.  The odds should be pretty good for you guys.

Not to be a total insensitive ass, but didn't she recently have a miscarriage?  I'm assuming that baby was conceived the old fashioned way?  You have time on your side.  If your only real problem is having slow swimmers you just need to try, a lot, and you'll probably conceive again without help.  If I'm mixing you up with another poster I apologize profusely!

[milee]

I know that people are trying to be encouraging and posting not only what they truly believe but what they think will be supportive. That's good and nice and there's nothing wrong with that.

But Carl, don't feel bad or wrong if that's not how you feel. This is way too big a decision to make based on what should be versus what actually is.  This decision will impact your life, your wife's life, your potential child's life forever and it's best to be honest with yourself and your wife about what you really feel, even if those feelings are not ones that are mainstream or sound like they belong on a Hallmark card.

[Jaguar]

For everyone that adopted yes your children were born in you, they were born in your heart & spirit.

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

My girls' biological father can barely tolerate their existence. And they've figured that out. 
Actually, my dd#1 figured it out when she was two. 

My husband loves my girls like theyre his own and  far more than their "real" dad and not only do they know it, they love him and appreciate him. 

Being human is hard and everyone reacts to other humans differently. It will all dep end on you. I'm glad Rae mentioned that therapy was required. I've never dealt with infertility, so that's not something I was aware of. It makes sense that that's a requirement. 

[Deleted]

Feb 19, 2014 22:34:09 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

True if it was 100% bullet proof

1 round turns into two, then 3... Then maybe the 4th one will be the one.

And you don't get a refund!

You'd have to do some research and probably consult with a fertility clinic near you, but implanting viable sperm into a viable egg has a pretty high success rate.  Fertility treatment usually gets expensive when there are problems on her end carrying to term.  As far as you guys know she's fine, and you're basically fine, just with a low sperm count.  You're both young.  The odds should be pretty good for you guys.

Not to be a total insensitive ass, but didn't she recently have a miscarriage?  I'm assuming that baby was conceived the old fashioned way?  You have time on your side.  If your only real problem is having slow swimmers you just need to try, a lot, and you'll probably conceive again without help.  If I'm mixing you up with another poster I apologize profusely!

That happening again is ... I don't know.

Seeing a urologist, another urologist that specialize in male fertility and a reproductive endocrinologist and they all agreed the chances of me getting my wife pregnant without medical intervention are slim. Not impossible just slim...

So yes like I said it can happen "again" or may never happen. What do we do after a year or two and nothing? We were just discussing our options and I realize I am more open to adoption vs sperm donor.

Being honest with myself: if we had to decide within the next month I would adopt in a heart beat vs the sperm donor route. My wife would prefer the sperm donor route..

[justme]

Something to consider is that adoption isn't necessarily cheaper than IVF. Sperm donor is, but I think IVF and adoption are a toss up money wise unless you go the foster route. Overseas adoption can easily be more than a few cycles of IVF, and depending on your luck on domestic it could be too (from what I know you often pay a fee up front to include their medical, but if they change their mind you're out that money, too bad).

[quince]

I don't know, but my dad adopted me, so I do feel like genetics and love have very little to do with each other.

I would NOT be egg donor/carrying a child to term though. If my eggs are bad my uterus can get a damned rest. I would be fine using egg donor/surrogate/husband's DNA.  Possibly prefer it, because pregnancy was not so much fun.  

[Sunnyday]

Feb 19, 2014 22:34:17 GMT -5 milee said:

I know that people are trying to be encouraging and posting not only what they truly believe but what they think will be supportive. That's good and nice and there's nothing wrong with that.

But Carl, don't feel bad or wrong if that's not how you feel. This is way too big a decision to make based on what should be versus what actually is.  This decision will impact your life, your wife's life, your potential child's life forever and it's best to be honest with yourself and your wife about what you really feel, even if those feelings are not ones that are mainstream or sound like they belong on a Hallmark card.

Yes. this is true too. Even if you thought that you would love less a non-biological child over a biological child, that's fine. I mean that it's probably not the most noble human emotion, and something that we would rarely admit to in public. But we all experience emotions that we wouldn't want to announce to the world.

But I would find that preferable instead of pushing through with donor sperm or adoption thinking that your heart will come around.

Whatever you do, once this child comes into your life. It's yours, and you better love it. While I couldn't judge someone who decided that adoption wasn't for them or what have you, I would find anyone despicable who would take a child into their lives and make them feel like they were second best or a consolation prize.

But I don't think that you would do that, because you're the sort of person who questions himself, and that is a good sign to me. A person who is cognizant enough about the very possible feelings that can go with such a situation is someone who is self aware enough to do the right thing.

[stillmovingforward]

I did both.
My SDH and I had a slim chance of getting pregnant. But we did. We also adopted. No sperm donor but I did try IVF hormones for 2 months and informed the World that the hormonal treatments were NOT worth it (many years ago and I am sure its better now). I'm glad I experienced being pregnant (sort of cool and never got sick). But the ONLY difference between my bio kids and adopted kids is their color. And my bio kids are totally different colors but the same parents! I love them all different but just as much as the other. Someone did comment one day that 'I couldn't relate' to my black daughter as I was white. I pointed out that she was the only girl in the family at that time. We TOTALLY related in a houseful of guys! It was great to have another female around. That must mean I can't relate to my son with the Native American hair and skin color either.......who is biological.
People ask which kids are 'mine'. I tell them 'all of them'. If they get pushy, I ask which one of their kids is vaginal. A showstopper but it gets the point across. Its obvious some of us are adopted, we're comfortable with it, its just not something that everyone needs to pry into.

[raeoflyte]

As far as telling family that is a personal decision, but I would highly recommend that you do, just as milee suggested. For one it may help another family member who is dealing with similar issues, but most importantly you want your kids to understand that there isn't anything wrong with them and the way they came into the world.

The one thing I regret about our decision is that if genetics is important to either of our kids there is no way to find the donor. They will have each other, and probably dozens of "half siblings" that will have some kind of network, but we can't give anything more than a medical history, physical description and a few short questions the donor answered. Having kids is always selfish, but I didn't think about how selfish we were being until we were trying for our 2nd.

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[cronewitch]

I would love a baby I raised but might not feel right if I wasn't the bio mom but my husband was the bio dad. My ex suggested we get a baby by him getting someone pregnant so it would be his bio child but not mine. I would have felt it was his child not our child. Adopted we would be equal parents. I would be jealous of him getting to be a bio parent not me. If we divorced I would think he would get the child and any fight with the child it would say I wasn't the mom.

Carl I hope you get a baby the regular way but any way you do it make sure you understand your own feelings and your wife's feelings. Figure out if she would think it was equally your baby or mostly her baby.

I think you would love a baby you raised because you would be proud of your influence on the child. You would take credit for the child becoming the best they could be because of your guidance.

Take some time and really consider what is best for the entire family. Wife having her own bio child would be great for her but maybe not for the entire family.

[Deleted]

I would prefer adoption. I could not deal with a decision to terminate if multiple fertilized eggs took. Knowing that about myself, IVF would never be an option.

Have you explored any serious homeopathic approaches to improving your situation? I would take a year to 100% focus on natural health improvements and see if that results in better motility and count. I would also go to counseling during that time to explore my feelings and their origin.

It is a very emotional decision. I think only you can decide what feels right in your heart.

[bobosensei]

Would you feel better if your wife also used a donor egg? That way she could be pregnant like she wants, but it might be easier for you.  I have no idea how much more that would cost or if it would be a lot less likely to be successful, but this is a difficult choice and paying more to feel better about things might be best for you and the wife in the long run.

Another option, and maybe this isn't truly an option but just something I've seen in a movie, but could they mix your sperm with the donor sperm and then you wouldn't necessarily have to know if the child was biologically yours or not.

[skubikky]

Feb 19, 2014 18:50:36 GMT -5 swamp said:

Feb 19, 2014 18:30:34 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

If they weren't biologically yours?

My wife test results came back and she is ok; awesome! Next week she is up for some blood test and follow up visit with doctor the week after that.

So we decided to start trying as soon as she gives us the green light which we hope is at that visit and we discussed the "what if" it doesn't work? Would I be ok with a sperm donor ?

I suggested "adoption" and my wife said she would be willing to adopt but she wants to experience pregnancy once, dreamed of it her whole life.

For some reason in my mind I am perfectly ok with adopting yet I still cannot come to term with my wife carrying another man's child. Yes I know it would be ours and I would love him/her as if he/she was biologically mine but I wonder if it would bother me if deep inside I knew he/she was technically my wife's child but not mine.

So fucked up on so many level to be thinking about it but cannot stop thinking about it since we talked about it last night. Would I be able to love my wife child that is not biologically mine? Do I love her enough to give her the joy of carrying someone else child?

And do we tell the kids? Do we tell our families? Telling either of our moms is like telling the whole family; those two ladies cannot keep a secret to save their lives.

Why am I ok with adopting yet still not 100% ok with the other route if needed? Oh well, maybe we will get lucky and this will be a moot point.

*as for cost we are doubly insured for both dental and medical (both out jobs). We did the calculations : paying 2 insurance premiums is insanely cheaper than the cost of fertility treatments with one insurance if we need to go that route (comparing/adding the two). To make this YM related lol

-> but to the YM crowd: do you think you would love your kids just as much if they weren't biologically yours?

Pregnancy is overrated. 

Swamp.....you are that rare breed of lawyer who consistently speaks the truth. 

[Shooby]

  Biology is a strong connection.  When i look at my kids i can see DH or myself or our relatives in them.  That is a very deep connection.  I also believe i could adopt and love a non biological child.  And, as another poster pointed out, biology is a big issue when you are starting to have children and pregnant.  But, if you bring in an adopted or non bio child, you will have the bond of family over time as you travel your lives together and once your lives become intertwined, then you have that bond as well. 

[zibazinski]

DF raised two kids that weren't his. The fact that they turned out as well as they did was TOTALLY because of him. His ex only had a bio child to make sure she got a cut of his earnings if he wised up and left her. But those kids were much older when he got them, not babies. I saw him with stepsons newest baby last night. He loved that newest grandchild as. Much as if it was biologically his own flesh and blood. The fact that when adoption was open to them, they chose an expensive and horrific, and now it seems, never ending saga of surrogacy, seems odd to me because of the love and care DF gave them so you'd think blood wouldn't matter as much. It doesn't to DIL but it does to the stepson he raised. To me that's odd. It's not like EXs blood family is anything to shout out about and stepsons father is in and out of jail for being a pedophile. Is that blood you seriously want to carry on? Eww. If I had been DIL, I'd have run for the hills having that sicko in the family tree. How would you ever know that her husband wouldn't take kids to see bio dad the pedophile? Eww. But if someone came to me now and said there'd been a mixup in the hospital and my kids weren't mine but someone else's, I'd do nothing except look at bio kids out of curiosity. I love my kids, not because I carried them, hell, that was awful both times, but because I have raised, nurtured, and cherished them. I've been there through sickness and in health, for better or for worse, when they've succeeded and when they've failed.THAT is a parent, not some sperm or some egg. At least to me. Btw, bio brat is a piece of work so that means that bio can sometimes inflict the worst traits of both parents.

[Wisconsin Beth]

Carl, as people have pointed out - your feelings are yours about this.  And no matter what they are, your feelings are valid and deserve respect.  So take the time to figure them out.  Emotions are often a horrible, messy f#$%ed up things. 

My DD was 10 months old when I got a positive pregnancy test - taken only because I was fighting with my husband and he insisted I was pregnant and I insisted I wasn't.  I tested on a Wed. or Thurs. and was ONLY waiting until the weekend to have a talk with him about how I was done with one kid.  I spent the next 5 months reconciling myself to being pregnant and having 2 kids. 

He's 4.5 now.  Active and holy hell can he tackle someone on the move.  He may drive me to drink but I love him to bits. 

[thyme4change]

I have a friend who used a sperm donor and whenever the kids misbehave, she says "That must be a trait he got from the donor."  LOL

She is a lesbian, so the emotional aspects of their decision was very different than your situation.

Adoption can be tough too.  You may not know any of the medical history, and you don't really know if the prenatal care was up to par.  And it is very expensive.

[Deleted]

Feb 19, 2014 22:49:22 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

Feb 19, 2014 22:34:09 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

You'd have to do some research and probably consult with a fertility clinic near you, but implanting viable sperm into a viable egg has a pretty high success rate.  Fertility treatment usually gets expensive when there are problems on her end carrying to term.  As far as you guys know she's fine, and you're basically fine, just with a low sperm count.  You're both young.  The odds should be pretty good for you guys.

Not to be a total insensitive ass, but didn't she recently have a miscarriage?  I'm assuming that baby was conceived the old fashioned way?  You have time on your side.  If your only real problem is having slow swimmers you just need to try, a lot, and you'll probably conceive again without help.  If I'm mixing you up with another poster I apologize profusely!

That happening again is ... I don't know.

Seeing a urologist, another urologist that specialize in male fertility and a reproductive endocrinologist and they all agreed the chances of me getting my wife pregnant without medical intervention are slim. Not impossible just slim...

So yes like I said it can happen "again" or may never happen. What do we do after a year or two and nothing? We were just discussing our options and I realize I am more open to adoption vs sperm donor.

Being honest with myself: if we had to decide within the next month I would adopt in a heart beat vs the sperm donor route. My wife would prefer the sperm donor route..

Why would you need a donor? If your count is low you still are producing sperm. Which I assume they can still use?

<--- not a fertility expert

[zibazinski]

Not only that but usually they mix the sperm anyway unless you have a zero count, you will never know whether you did it or the donor did it.

[Formerly SK]

Feb 20, 2014 0:37:29 GMT -5 cronewitch said:

I would love a baby I raised but might not feel right if I wasn't the bio mom but my husband was the bio dad. My ex suggested we get a baby by him getting someone pregnant so it would be his bio child but not mine. I would have felt it was his child not our child. Adopted we would be equal parents. I would be jealous of him getting to be a bio parent not me. If we divorced I would think he would get the child and any fight with the child it would say I wasn't the mom.

Carl I hope you get a baby the regular way but any way you do it make sure you understand your own feelings and your wife's feelings. Figure out if she would think it was equally your baby or mostly her baby.

I think you would love a baby you raised because you would be proud of your influence on the child. You would take credit for the child becoming the best they could be because of your guidance.

Take some time and really consider what is best for the entire family. Wife having her own bio child would be great for her but maybe not for the entire family.

I think this is the crux of the issue.  Mrs C and the baby would have a biological connection, and Carl may feel excluded from that just a bit (like a third wheel).  Adoption makes the parenting relationship equal. 

I also think it would be painful if Mrs C makes comments along the lines of "oh look Baby C has my eyes or grandma's nose" and Carl has to be reminded once again that he can't say those things.  It's isn't about loving the child less, it's about the inequality of his relationship to the baby vs Mrs C's relationship.

I like the idea of using donor eggs if Mrs C really wants to get pregnant.  Or just plain ol adoption.  Carl's feelings are completely valid and I think if he tries to sweep them under the rug to make Mrs C happy, it could come back at some point and really harm their marriage.  IMO this isn't a parenting issue but a marriage one. 

(((HUGS))) Carl.  I'm so sorry you're struggling with these things. 

[raeoflyte]

Feb 20, 2014 9:53:17 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Not only that but usually they mix the sperm anyway unless you have a zero count, you will never know whether you did it or the donor did it.

I don't believe any clinic would actually do this and I don't think cawiau is doing the at home version. From what I've read that cuts down success rate and is just not...idk the word to use... Medical?

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[zibazinski]

Well, they used to so maybe they don't anymore. It was never an issue for me so I didn't pay much attention but some of my friends went through various forms of infertility so I can only go by what their experiences were. They don't do sperm spinning either anymore, I am told, to increase gender selection.

[Deleted]

Again, I don't know much about fertility treatments, but if they're going to fertilize her egg and then implant it, why couldn't they use his sperm?  Can't they "concentrate" his swimmers before introducing them to the egg?

[Deleted]

I'm going to be a terrible wet blanket here, but I have to ask...what caused the previous miscarriage? If the idea of going through that again is traumatizing you might be asking the wrong questions because I don't think your sperm would be the issue there. I hope you understand why I'm bringing this up.

[raeoflyte]

Feb 20, 2014 10:17:24 GMT -5 @beerwench said:

Again, I don't know much about fertility treatments, but if they're going to fertilize her egg and then implant it, why couldn't they use his sperm?  Can't they "concentrate" his swimmers before introducing them to the egg?

That's IVF. I think they are thinking iui for cost and a less invasive procedure.

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[Deleted]

Ahhh...got it! Thank you!!

ETA: well then, maybe they should consider the more expensive option if it would give Carl peace of mind?

[The Captain]

Now for the counter argument.

DH is adopted.  He is very grateful for his adoptive family.  However, as he's gotten older it has become more painfully apparent that his parents treats him/his family different from their biological child/child's family.

We/he are second class citizens.  Now can we say for certain it's because he is not their biological child?  No, of course not - no one would ever admit that.  But the fact is it will always be a nagging thing in his thoughts.  He was supposed to carry on the "family name" but we put that to an end when we stopped with one child - a girl.  I think in some ways that is why we are treated differently.

Of course his folks are "special" in so many ways this hopefully is not the norm.