Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2014 15:46:48 GMT -5
None of this is needed, send in the drones..
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Feb 12, 2014 15:48:50 GMT -5
A draft isn't a choice though. If your number comes up you either turn into a fugitive and disappear, put on the uniform and do your duty, or you take a prison sentence as a conscientious objector. One way or another your world gets turned upside down.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Feb 12, 2014 15:48:53 GMT -5
It's not really that much time, in the grand scheme of things. Look at Vietnam vets. Most only did a tour or two. Assuming they came back alive. Even career military folks don't actually spend that many years in the sandbox. The latest wars have been pretty taxing because we're fighting a protracted war without a draft and a pretty small percentage of Americans in uniform. Historically that's not how we did it. Much larger percentages of the population were in uniform, so each individual soldier saw fewer deployments and less time overseas. Maybe it isn't that much time to you, but to me it is. I would never take a job where I had to leave them long-term. And my kids are older now. I wouldn't have taken a job where I had to leave them at all when they were younger.
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Sunnyday
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Post by Sunnyday on Feb 12, 2014 15:50:15 GMT -5
You send them to stay with grandparents for a year while you serve your overseas tour. Not the end of the world. Or, your parents move into your house while you're gone, so the kid doesn't even have to transfer schools or anything. Again, not the end of the world. That's not an option in my life. There is no one else. I'm raising my daughter. Period. Judge away. Now, if the Holocaust were actually recurring in MY homecountry, that might be another story. But I'm not going to stupid trumped up wars we promised to end 10 years ago. I think it's funny that people think that they can just hop over to Canada. It's not that easy to get papers. I posted specifically that my H has dual citizenship so I think they have to let us in. I don't think you understand how immigration works in Canada. They will let your husband in, because he's. Canadian citizen. You will have to be sponsored. And in peace time, it can take 1-3 years to be sponsored , in war time, it will probably take much more. Being married to a citizen does not guarantee you status in Canada. It's the same in the US too.
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hurley1980
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Post by hurley1980 on Feb 12, 2014 15:52:53 GMT -5
Dh already served 5 years in the army as an infantry sniper. He would go back right now if he could, but with 20 something screws in his ankle, they won't take him back at the moment. They might if there was a draft. He even tried to go do security with a private contractor in Afganistan, but (lucky for me) he can't pass the physical.
I would go if I was drafted, and I would probably be an okay soldier. I can fire a gun, and I'm a pretty fast runner, but I'm also pretty tiny, and not very strong. I know women smaller than me that have been in the military, but it wasn't easy for them. I have always wondered if I would be able to get through bootcamp, so at least I would finally know if there was a draft. I do get migraines, but if I had my medication, it wouldnt be a problem.
If anyone tried to invade the US, that would be the end of their army. Even in liberal California, where I live, a lot of people own guns, or other weapons that could do some damage. The right composit bow can take down any animal in North America....I'm pretty sure it can take down a Russian just as easily.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Feb 12, 2014 15:57:20 GMT -5
That's going to be especially true if you attempt to dodge the draft and are put on a no fly list. Presumably your employer would be notified, the SS office knows where your paycheck comes from, so your job is gone. If you try to get another one, you'll be flagged as a fugitive as soon as they process your I9 info. Big brother has a lot more of our information, and just reach in general, these days than he had last time Americans tried to dodge the draft.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Feb 12, 2014 15:57:52 GMT -5
I don't think you understand how immigration works in Canada. They will let your husband in, because he's. Canadian citizen. You will have to be sponsored. And in peace time, it can take 1-3 years to be sponsored , in war time, it will probably take much more. Being married to a citizen does not guarantee you status in Canada. It's the same in the US too. True, I've never had to do it. I would think they would let our daughter in, too. Though maybe she has to be sponsored, too. I did almost marry a Canadian once before (a looong time ago) and we looked into it and it wasn't that bad (at the time). Visa, work permit, etc. I think it wouldn't be that hard. I'm highly skilled and in a demanded field, so I really don't think it would be bad. But I could be wrong. I can also reclaim my initial citizenship (German) if I had to but that would be really annoying, I imagine.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Feb 12, 2014 15:58:36 GMT -5
That's going to be especially true if you attempt to dodge the draft and are put on a no fly list. Presumably your employer would be notified, the SS office knows where your paycheck comes from, so your job is gone. If you try to get another one, you'll be flagged as a fugitive as soon as they process your I9 info. Big brother has a lot more of our information, and just reach in general, these days than he had last time Americans tried to dodge the draft. Good thing I live 100 miles from the border!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2014 15:58:49 GMT -5
No hablo Inglés? so straight to the front line, eh?
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Sunnyday
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Post by Sunnyday on Feb 12, 2014 16:00:12 GMT -5
A draft isn't a choice though. If your number comes up you either turn into a fugitive and disappear, put on the uniform and do your duty, or you take a prison sentence as a conscientious objector. One way or another your world gets turned upside down. Yeah that! skip on the draft, go to prison or go to war, and someone else is still going to be raising your kids. but you did say, that your husband will go, and not you.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2014 16:03:21 GMT -5
I think it's funny that people think that they can just hop over to Canada. It's not that easy to get papers. You have to have skills that Canada wants. And the Canadian govt does not look kindly on people who try to get out of their military duties. A handful of Americans tried to get refugee status as war objectors. Not one got the right to stay in Canada. I don't need to become a citizen! border guard: state the reason for your visit Me: heading to the Great Wolf Lodge in Niagara Falls Guard: how long is your visit Me: for the weekend and then once we're in we keep on trucking! we just need to get in and keep a low profile
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Feb 12, 2014 16:05:14 GMT -5
So you sneak into Canada, with no papers. How are you going to care for your daughter? You can't get a job over there without papers. If they find you, they'll call US authorities and you'll end up in prison with your kids in foster care. You can't even enroll them in school without papers of some sort. Are you going to live on the street in Canada? Those winters can be pretty brutal. Might be better jumping the southern border and hiding in Mexico. More corrupt system, so easier to use cash to fall through the cracks. I wonder how much a fake Mexican identity would cost in US dollars if there was a draft here?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2014 16:07:58 GMT -5
Or we can do Mexico. Canada's not set in stone.
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swamp
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THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
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Post by swamp on Feb 12, 2014 16:08:46 GMT -5
I hear Costa Rica is nice.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2014 16:09:19 GMT -5
There ya go! << adds it to her list >>
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2014 16:09:19 GMT -5
Would Puerto Rico be out of the country or not?
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Sunnyday
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Post by Sunnyday on Feb 12, 2014 16:11:47 GMT -5
I don't think you understand how immigration works in Canada. They will let your husband in, because he's. Canadian citizen. You will have to be sponsored. And in peace time, it can take 1-3 years to be sponsored , in war time, it will probably take much more. Being married to a citizen does not guarantee you status in Canada. It's the same in the US too. True, I've never had to do it. I would think they would let our daughter in, too. Though maybe she has to be sponsored, too. I did almost marry a Canadian once before (a looong time ago) and we looked into it and it wasn't that bad (at the time). Visa, work permit, etc. I think it wouldn't be that hard. I'm highly skilled and in a demanded field, so I really don't think it would be bad. But I could be wrong. I can also reclaim my initial citizenship (German) if I had to but that would be really annoying, I imagine. I You also have to make sure that your children birth has been recorded in Canada. They have to claim their Canadian citizenship. Just like, my children have to claim their American citizenship. They have until they are 18 to do it, I think. After that, tough shit. For Canada, in order to claim Canadian citizenship, I think you may have to go through some extra hurdles if you were not born in Canada but one of your parents were. Take it from me, immigration isn't easy. And forget about it, if you have a criminal record. I'm also on my second Canadian!! I guess We like Canadians. lol
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Feb 12, 2014 16:12:33 GMT -5
No hablo Inglés? so straight to the front line, eh? I have religious objections to war. Those wouldn't exempt me from military service, so I'd either wind up rotting in jail, or, if the military was smart about it, they'd put me to some productive use on the home front. I wouldn't try to flee the country to avoid the draft. You either fight and die, or object and face the consequences.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Feb 12, 2014 16:16:24 GMT -5
Honestly, fleeing the country as a fugitive with my daughters seems more disrupting than having a family member watch them while I do my duty. Draft dodgers don't get a free pass to come back once the war is over. You guys do realize that right? If you run you'll still be dealing with that long after the war is over. A year of bad food, and getting shot at only lasts the one year.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Feb 12, 2014 16:16:32 GMT -5
So you sneak into Canada, with no papers. How are you going to care for your daughter? You can't get a job over there without papers. If they find you, they'll call US authorities and you'll end up in prison with your kids in foster care. You can't even enroll them in school without papers of some sort. Are you going to live on the street in Canada? Those winters can be pretty brutal. Might be better jumping the southern border and hiding in Mexico. More corrupt system, so easier to use cash to fall through the cracks. I wonder how much a fake Mexican identity would cost in US dollars if there was a draft here? How do all the Mexicans without papers get work here? Are we too stupid to put a system in place but Canada isn't?
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Feb 12, 2014 16:19:54 GMT -5
Canada is much stricter about checking papers when hiring than the US is. Certain interests here, namely the business community, fights tooth and nail against any regulation requiring them to check citizenship status of their personnel, or fining them for hiring illegals. We have so many illegals here because we've made it easy for them to live and work here, because US businesses want them here. Our corporations want cheap labor, and they don't give a damn what it does to our communities. Canada, largely, doesn't feel the same way.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2014 16:21:25 GMT -5
Honestly, fleeing the country as a fugitive with my daughters seems more disrupting than having a family member watch them while I do my duty. Draft dodgers don't get a free pass to come back once the war is over. You guys do realize that right? If you run you'll still be dealing with that long after the war is over. A year of bad food, and getting shot at only lasts the one year. I'd better do more research and pick someplace good, then! I am glad that I was fortunate enough to be born in the US but I don't HAVE to live here for the rest of my life.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Feb 12, 2014 16:22:44 GMT -5
A draft isn't a choice though. If your number comes up you either turn into a fugitive and disappear, put on the uniform and do your duty, or you take a prison sentence as a conscientious objector. One way or another your world gets turned upside down. Yeah that! skip on the draft, go to prison or go to war, and someone else is still going to be raising your kids. but you did say, that your husband will go, and not you. Everyone is taking this a little too seriously. I can sneak into Canada. It's not that hard. The fence isn't very high. I have extensive backcountry experience and can live in the wilderness if I had to. And I would. I'm not going to jail. And I'm not leaving my daughter.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Feb 12, 2014 16:22:50 GMT -5
Make sure you pick somewhere that doesn't have an extradition treaty with the US. I hear parts of Africa are pretty nice... kind of.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Feb 12, 2014 16:24:38 GMT -5
So you sneak into Canada, with no papers. How are you going to care for your daughter? You can't get a job over there without papers. If they find you, they'll call US authorities and you'll end up in prison with your kids in foster care. You can't even enroll them in school without papers of some sort. Are you going to live on the street in Canada? Those winters can be pretty brutal. Might be better jumping the southern border and hiding in Mexico. More corrupt system, so easier to use cash to fall through the cracks. I wonder how much a fake Mexican identity would cost in US dollars if there was a draft here? LOL. You are wayyyy to jacked up about this. I already said I planned to do things the 'appropriate' way by getting a work visa because my HUSBAND IS A CITIZEN. You are like 10 what-ifs down the line here.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Feb 12, 2014 16:25:16 GMT -5
Honestly, fleeing the country as a fugitive with my daughters seems more disrupting than having a family member watch them while I do my duty. Draft dodgers don't get a free pass to come back once the war is over. You guys do realize that right? If you run you'll still be dealing with that long after the war is over. A year of bad food, and getting shot at only lasts the one year. It's really lucky you have family members who are capable of taking care of your family for you. Must be nice.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Feb 12, 2014 16:26:11 GMT -5
Forever? Dodging the draft is against the law. You become a fugitive. I think technically it's something like on the date that you miss reporting for basic training, you're legally considered to be in the military and AWOL. Something like that. You literally become a fugitive, and it's not going to go away after a couple weeks of camping in Canada. I don't care how much backcountry experience you have, I don't see running away to the Canadian wilderness, with your daughter, as a viable long term solution. It's a short term, "Oh shit, what am I going to do" response.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Feb 12, 2014 16:28:48 GMT -5
"Regardless, I agree with you. I don't think women should be able to claim having kids any more reason than a man. Both have equal value as parents."
I agree with you up to a point. The exception would be if a non-custodial parent of either gender (remember the number of divorces or non-exsisting marriages here) has a history of not paying full child support, they should have no out whatsoever. Not even if they happily went along and started a new family. You stiff your kid(s) -> you go, that's it!
And before you all jump over this: our kids were adults when xH and I called it quits so it never was an issue for us.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Feb 12, 2014 16:29:30 GMT -5
You also have to make sure that your children birth has been recorded in Canada. They have to claim their Canadian citizenship. Just like, my children have to claim their American citizenship. They have until they are 18 to do it, I think. After that, tough shit. For Canada, in order to claim Canadian citizenship, I think you may have to go through some extra hurdles if you were not born in Canada but one of your parents were. Take it from me, immigration isn't easy. And forget about it, if you have a criminal record. I'm also on my second Canadian!! I guess We like Canadians. lol They are kind of cute, up there on their little ponies. My H has a Canadian passport. He's good to go. I would have to do some sort of joint citizenship for DD. But she's a long way from 18 so it's not a problem in the US (yet). We might even try one of those other wacky queen worshiping countries like Australia or New Zealand. We are actually considering retiring in one of the Commonwealth Nations... so maybe we'll figure out the process after all.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Feb 12, 2014 16:30:46 GMT -5
Forever? Dodging the draft is against the law. You become a fugitive. I think technically it's something like on the date that you miss reporting for basic training, you're legally considered to be in the military and AWOL. Something like that. You literally become a fugitive, and it's not going to go away after a couple weeks of camping in Canada. I don't care how much backcountry experience you have, I don't see running away to the Canadian wilderness, with your daughter, as a viable long term solution. It's a short term, "Oh shit, what am I going to do" response. Meh. I have a lot of money. I can always bribe someone. It can be done. There are always ways, it's just a matter of finding one. Maybe it wouldn't be Canada. My Spanish is pretty bueno so I could see how that goes.
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