NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 3, 2014 16:39:39 GMT -5
I've never once said there wasn't a choice. DH chose to do speed rather than seek out alternatives to deal with things. He also chose to stop doing it and get clean.
But at the same time whether you approve or not there is a biological component to his addiction. He recognizes that to which is why he CHOOSES to not put hiself into positions where he could develop a new vice. It's very easy for him to trade one for another.
Meanwhile it'd take a lot for me to become an alcoholic, for example. I'm sure if I wanted to bad enough I could make myself into one but it's not as easy as it would be for DH.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2014 16:39:54 GMT -5
My brother is addicted to working out. He'll never get married or have a family because life to him is being out in my barn when it's 20 below zero flipping a 700 pound tractor tire hundreds of times. He spends literally hours everyday lifting weights, running, dragging chains up hills and doesn't have time for anyone or anything else. The only reason he has a job is to make money to buy barrels of protein powder.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Feb 3, 2014 16:45:41 GMT -5
When I think of "positive" addictions, I think more of the various 'highs' people get from things like performing in front of an audience, receiving accolades for their work, being in the limelight, etc.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Feb 3, 2014 16:49:27 GMT -5
What things can people be addicted to and considered a hero? Exercise. Work.
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Feb 3, 2014 17:53:47 GMT -5
I just find it odd when addiction is medically recognized as a real thing and people choose to believe that it isn't. It's the actions, the behaviors, the mental processes. The object of that addiction is irrelevant.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Feb 3, 2014 18:00:21 GMT -5
When I think of "positive" addictions, I think more of the various 'highs' people get from things like performing in front of an audience, receiving accolades for their work, being in the limelight, etc. See, you are even using the same words - getting "high". But yet, we don't call that a disease, do we?
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Feb 3, 2014 18:05:01 GMT -5
I guess we only label something a disease when it is damaging. We don't find those things damaging, so they aren't labelled the same way, but to me, they betray the same root issues and could lead to being replaced by damaging things.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Feb 3, 2014 18:12:35 GMT -5
I guess we only label something a disease when it is damaging. We don't find those things damaging, so they aren't labelled the same way, but to me, they betray the same root issues and could lead to being replaced by damaging things. Who is to say that extreme exercising or working isn't damaging? Exercising can be damaging to the body, working can be damaging to the family/life. These are not unlike other addictions of alcoholism and drugs.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Feb 3, 2014 18:14:40 GMT -5
I guess we only label something a disease when it is damaging. We don't find those things damaging, so they aren't labelled the same way, but to me, they betray the same root issues and could lead to being replaced by damaging things. Who is to say that extreme exercising or working isn't damaging? Exercising can be damaging to the body, working can be damaging to the family/life. These are not unlike other addictions of alcoholism and drugs. No, that can be true. So why do we not label them as addictions, in the same manner as others? Perhaps rather than focus on such things as addictions, we treat them more as symptoms of underlying causes and deal with or label the underlying causes?
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Feb 3, 2014 18:21:10 GMT -5
Philip Seymour Hoffman = Pumps Heroin; Lay Off Him
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Feb 3, 2014 18:42:59 GMT -5
Work or exercise can definitely be addictions. We probably don't really focus on those because they generally aren't as life-destroying as some other addictions.
I would also argue that a person with an addiction doesn't necessarily have an addictive personality. Someone having simply an exercise addiction (or work or whatever), but no other problems doesn't necessarily have an addictive personality. Those with addictive personalities tend to battle many addictions, like DQ's husband. The ones I have known have problems with drugs, alcohol, nicotine, and gambling. Their brains are wired different & it is really easy for them to get hooked on something.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 3, 2014 18:47:17 GMT -5
We are imperfect beings living in an imperfect world.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Feb 3, 2014 18:55:07 GMT -5
I KNOW I have an addictive personality. I just have a lack of self control when it comes to certain things. One can argue that it's my "chemical imbalance" or my "brain chemistry", but at the end of the day, it's mostly about choices I make.
I guess what really bothers me is how much control we are taking out of people's hands by telling them that it's not them, it's the disease.
Anyway, I think he was a talented actor and it's too bad that his life ended so short.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Feb 3, 2014 18:55:08 GMT -5
Their brains are wired different & it is really easy for them to get hooked on something.
I really wonder how this works. When I got sick, I was taking MASSIVE amounts of narcotics, enough that it gave TD nightmares that we had so many in the house. When I didn't need them, I stopped taking them. Simple as that. I didn't just stop, I needed less and less until there was a point that the side effects (major lack of attention span) was more of a pain to deal with than the aches and pains.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Feb 3, 2014 19:25:34 GMT -5
I KNOW I have an addictive personality. I just have a lack of self control when it comes to certain things. One can argue that it's my "chemical imbalance" or my "brain chemistry", but at the end of the day, it's mostly about choices I make. I guess what really bothers me is how much control we are taking out of people's hands by telling them that it's not them, it's the disease. Anyway, I think he was a talented actor and it's too bad that his life ended so short. I strongly suspect I have tendencies toward it as well, for similar reasons. For just such a reason, I don't usually have liquor hanging around the house and I don't take much in the way of prescriptions of certain types. I had to lay off the Percocet once after a surgery because I realized that I really liked the buzz they gave me. LOL, I even really like the Nitrous Oxide at the dentist... a little too much. It's not a big deal, but it's good to know yourself and understand what your own limitations are or need to be.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Feb 3, 2014 19:26:58 GMT -5
Their brains are wired different & it is really easy for them to get hooked on something. I really wonder how this works. When I got sick, I was taking MASSIVE amounts of narcotics, enough that it gave TD nightmares that we had so many in the house. When I didn't need them, I stopped taking them. Simple as that. I didn't just stop, I needed less and less until there was a point that the side effects (major lack of attention span) was more of a pain to deal with than the aches and pains. The difference is that some of us *like* the lack of attention span, for example.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Feb 3, 2014 19:45:46 GMT -5
I KNOW I have an addictive personality. I just have a lack of self control when it comes to certain things. One can argue that it's my "chemical imbalance" or my "brain chemistry", but at the end of the day, it's mostly about choices I make. But its not really about self control. For my husband it was about managing his feelings. And, IMVHO that's what makes the difference between someone who is driven and is an addict or has poor coping skills. In my household growing up, hard work was praised and rewarded. Though, I didn't know specifically what I was doing, I made myself busy as possible to escape the dysfunction I was experiencing with my folks.. If I worked hard, my parents wouldn't say no to anything that would further my skills along or make me a good college candidate. That meant summer camps, weekends away, a ton of activities, you name it. The family joke is that my parents home was a hotel throughout my HS years for me. I was a workaholic by the time I was a freshman in HS. One of the times in our marriage where my husband's addiction escalated, I took on way more work than I needed to. I got my emotional needs met by my clients, and it got me out of our dysfunctional home. No one would suggest this a good coping strategy.. Yes, I still work a ton now, but it's not to purposely escape something. In fact, I really do long to be at home and will get through work as fast as I can. From what I can understand (I didn't talk at length with my H about his addiction issues) it would go something like this: Day 1: Yeah, I had a fabulous day today. I'm going to act out now and get high. Afterwords, Crap, I feel shame about what I did. (insert some promise about getting high again) Day 2: Oh, I had a miserable day today. I'm going to act out and get high. Afterwords, Crap, I feel shame about what I did (and insert some promise to abstain.) Repeat day 1 and Day 2 for any amount of time (weeks, months, years.) And, yes, there is a biological component to it. How else can you explain that about 85% of the population can look at a woman on the street or at porn and not be triggered to get high. Though my Dh does not have an addictive personality. (Here's another thing about addicts. There's no one size fits all. With my Dh's sex addiction, you get 100 addicts in a room, and there's 100 different MOs on how they get high. There's also 100 different ways to try to get them to get sober. It's not do a,b,c and that's it. I think that's one of the things that makes recovery so difficult. )
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Feb 3, 2014 19:58:10 GMT -5
I only read he first page so maybe his has already been said.....
Here is why I have sympathy (besides just being a cold-hearted bitch!). At some point, he was an adult who CHOSE to put a highly addictive drug into his body. He is only a few years older than me, which means he lived through the Nancy Reagan years if "just say no". Knowing the dangers he still chose to shoot up for the first time. After that he was addicted.
I have no sympathy for anyone that chooses to shoot up. This includes my cousin, whom i grew up with and love dearly.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Feb 3, 2014 20:02:19 GMT -5
But, addicts ARE selfish. Here's the definition I googled. (of a person, action, or motive) lacking consideration for others; concerned chiefly with one's own personal profit or pleasure.
Wish it weren't true, but it is. The high is the first love. Not kids, not a SO, not work, the high. I just feel lucky that like Drama H's, my H is doing well, too. I'm not disputing that addiction is, at its core, a selfish behavior. But once the addict has taken his own life, what's the purpose of name-calling? The addict isn't around to hear it, and the family is already painfully aware of the selfishness of the addiction. He was an idiot...that doesn't mean that my heart doesn't break for his family and friends. I said he was an idiot on my Facebook page (or something along those lines) because I got sick of all of the "only the good die young" posts.....what.the.fuck? He didn't have cancer. At some point he chose to start shooting up and then he couldn't stop. I would never post that publicly because his family is grieving enough (not that they care what I have to day!) but privately, damn straight I'm going to say it...and show my daughter yet another dumb ass rich fool who died way too you g because he was dumb enough to try drugs.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Feb 3, 2014 20:03:20 GMT -5
For me, it's less about whether or not I personally have 'sympathy' for the person, and more about understanding how to help others (especially younger ones) learn from this example how to avoid ending up making the same mistakes.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Feb 3, 2014 20:05:39 GMT -5
Eh... one more dead junkie with a needle in his arm. Happens everyday. He's a selfish prick to do that to his kids. That's about all I have to say about it. Hell just froze over again....I agree with Shaun! :-p
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Feb 3, 2014 20:06:54 GMT -5
For me, it's less about whether or not I personally have 'sympathy' for the person, and more about understanding how to help others (especially younger ones) learn from this example how to avoid ending up making the same mistakes. That is why I make a point of calling him a riff dumb ass to my daughter. I can't save everyone but i sure as hell am trying to make sure my daughter doesn't go down the drug path.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Feb 3, 2014 20:24:01 GMT -5
Because a parent telling their kid that something is bad works wonders on the kid every time! I agree that it was a dumbass move. But I think the conversation should be deeper than that, and it matters that others who might find themselves in similar situations someday understand how he got to the point of doing something so dumbass. So they can understand how to choose not to also be dumbasses.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Feb 3, 2014 20:27:16 GMT -5
There are certain drugs you just don't ever try. Heroin, meth, PCP.. I took the straight edge trying them once has a pretty good chance of fucking up your life approach, so just don't. Smoke a little pot, drink underage, or try shrooms if you really want to experiment, but anything beyond that is fucking stupid.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Feb 3, 2014 20:32:49 GMT -5
There are certain drugs you just don't ever try. Heroin, meth, PCP.. I took the straight edge trying them once has a pretty good chance of fucking up your life approach, so just don't. Smoke a little pot, drink underage, or try shrooms if you really want to experiment, but anything beyond that is fucking stupid. That is more what I conveyed (minus the "try his instead"). Everytime one of these "celebs" overdoses we have the talk about why you never try drugs in the first place. We also have the benefit of having a cousin who nearly died and wound up in jail because he tried heroin, wound up addicted and then selling. Yeah, he was 38!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2014 20:39:44 GMT -5
I only read he first page so maybe his has already been said..... Here is why I have sympathy (besides just being a cold-hearted bitch!). At some point, he was an adult who CHOSE to put a highly addictive drug into his body. He is only a few years older than me, which means he lived through the Nancy Reagan years if "just say no". Knowing the dangers he still chose to shoot up for the first time. After that he was addicted. I have no sympathy for anyone that chooses to shoot up. This includes my cousin, whom i grew up with and love dearly. But heroin doesn't usually start with someone just deciding to stick a needle in their arm. Often they get addicted to prescription meds first and turn to heroin because it's easier/cheaper to come by than oxy and even then they usually start by snorting it before moving on to the needle. I still get what you're saying, I don't have a huge amount of sympathy either, but the differences in brain chemistry in people is amazing. I could pop percocet all day long and do nothing but puke.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Feb 3, 2014 20:46:48 GMT -5
I only read he first page so maybe his has already been said..... Here is why I have sympathy (besides just being a cold-hearted bitch!). At some point, he was an adult who CHOSE to put a highly addictive drug into his body. He is only a few years older than me, which means he lived through the Nancy Reagan years if "just say no". Knowing the dangers he still chose to shoot up for the first time. After that he was addicted. I have no sympathy for anyone that chooses to shoot up. This includes my cousin, whom i grew up with and love dearly. But heroin doesn't usually start with someone just deciding to stick a needle in their arm. Often they get addicted to prescription meds first and turn to heroin because it's easier/cheaper to come by than oxy and even then they usually start by snorting it before moving on to the needle. I still get what you're saying, I don't have a huge amount of sympathy either, but the differences in brain chemistry in people is amazing. I could pop percocet all day long and do nothing but puke. [br I hate the way main meds make me feel. I can't imagine choosing to feel like that all the time
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Feb 3, 2014 20:59:35 GMT -5
I don't know, Morphine was decent. Other than how horribly it backed me up.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Feb 3, 2014 21:04:00 GMT -5
I don't know, Morphine was decent. Other than how horribly it backed me up. I can't explain it. God knows I've been drunk and had no problems. But the feeling from pain meds is not somehing I enjoy
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ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Feb 3, 2014 21:16:44 GMT -5
Once a person becomes an addict or dependent (either drugs or alcohol), they're that way for the rest of their life.
It's up to each person affected whether or not they can abstain or they'll relapse. If you quit doing your habit for 20 years, and decide that one drink or one hit won't matter, you're sorely wrong.
It puts the addict right back to square-one.
I went through that with DH and his alcoholism. he was "cured" for 10 yrs - then a minor 'crisis' at work pushed him over the edge and he had to "chill" one night after work.
I won't go into the gory details, but one "little drink" led to an other, and he ended up losing his very successful job and then eventually his life - because he couldn't NOT have his substance of choice (booze - and I suspect pills as well) once he jumped off the wagon.
He was "in the program" and doing well for 10 years but once he had that first sip of his "elixir" after all that time, it was downhill from there.
As for Hoffman, he may have been under pressure from his career, which wasn't too active recently, but he made his choice - a bad choice at that.
I don't feel we should glorify the life of someone who's destroyed it if they meet a bad end due to bad choices - especially celebrities.
They're no more special than you or I in the big game of life - and they have to live (or not) by their own actions and decisions - just as you or I would.
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