Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 31, 2014 18:10:03 GMT -5
Because the "problem" stated he was a black power advocate, which Virgil later elaborated to mean "black suprmecy." I suppose it's possible that the black supremecist would treat non black patients. But as you said, the information given is pretty vague, which I guess is part of the exercise. What the fuck. This thread has been a real eye opener. Instead of griping at us, why don't you tell us what "black power advocate" means to you. What does "white power advocate" mean to you? If you read a Facebook page and the person's bio included very few details, among them: "Black power forever!", what would your immediate conclusion(s) be about this individual's attitudes toward non-blacks? Likewise, if you read a Facebook page where the bio included "White power forever!", what would your immediate conclusions be about this individual's attitudes toward non-whites? Would you feel comfortable sending either of these individuals off to a deserted island with vulnerable members of other races?
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jan 31, 2014 18:18:43 GMT -5
I would say that the assignment, as written, is not appropriate for a general population 6th grade class. If you look at the copy posted in the Common Core thread on P&M, it is obviously not a published lesson. If, and there is no evidence that it was, assigned to sixth graders I think a teacher used a lesson designed for a older age group. The language used is a clear giveaway to me. OK. Let's suppose the twitter feed is lying. Long before you bailed out on your primary argument onto this "maybe it was designed for older students" tangent, you were going to the wall to defend the appropriateness of the assignment for a sixth-grade English class. You summarily dismissed the idea that the ideas items posted in that threads OP might not be anything other than post CC curriculum. I saw no value in suggesting that they might not anything except exactly what they were presented as."The fact that it is cast as a life and death scenario gives it a seriousness that helps kids focus." Remember that? Sure. And in spite of Paul's theory that is just a part of the statist conspiracy, I believe that. Not sure what difference it makes if the kids are twelve or sixteen.How about: "I find the connection to English is the skills developed to articulate your perspective. Useful when analyzing literature. If it were my classroom, there would be a discussion of quality of discussion and logic in reaching a decision, not a focus on the decision made." or "Learning that there isn't a "right" answer but that different groups develop different ways to reach consensus in such situations is a valuable lesson." Seems to me like you think the exercise is just peachy. If it turned out to be mandated coursework for English classes US-wide, it'd get two enthusiastic thumbs up from billis. So let's ignore for a moment whether or not it's "obviously not a published lesson". You "obviously" wish it was a published lesson. I can nit-pick some details of what is included on the list and have no problem with a discussion over the appropriate age to expose students to this general assignment. But you are correct, I think this type of lesson has value for students.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 31, 2014 18:19:17 GMT -5
What the fuck. This thread has been a real eye opener. Instead of griping at us, why don't you tell us what "black power advocate" means to you. What does "white power advocate" mean to you? If you read a Facebook page and the person's bio included very few details, among them: "Black power forever!", what would your immediate conclusion(s) be about this individual's attitudes toward non-blacks? Likewise, if you read a Facebook page where the bio included "White power forever!", what would your immediate conclusions be about this individual's attitudes toward non-whites? Would you feel comfortable sending either of these individuals off to a deserted island with vulnerable members of other races? I believe I did so on the previous pages. You look it up.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 31, 2014 19:01:20 GMT -5
Instead of griping at us, why don't you tell us what "black power advocate" means to you. What does "white power advocate" mean to you? If you read a Facebook page and the person's bio included very few details, among them: "Black power forever!", what would your immediate conclusion(s) be about this individual's attitudes toward non-blacks? Likewise, if you read a Facebook page where the bio included "White power forever!", what would your immediate conclusions be about this individual's attitudes toward non-whites? Would you feel comfortable sending either of these individuals off to a deserted island with vulnerable members of other races? I believe I did so on the previous pages. You look it up. The only thing you've said that speaks to these questions is "I don't see an advocate as being the same as a supremacist. A child advocate is not a child supremacist. You have now moved Mr. Archie's goal posts by calling him a supremacist. Be careful." So... you don't see "black power advocate" as meaning "black supremacist". What do you see it as meaning? The answer is nowhere to be found in this thread. Can we infer that you don't see "white power advocate" as meaning "white supremacist"? If so, what does it mean to you? The answers are nowhere to be found in this thread. What are your conclusions about black power advocates' and white power advocates' attitudes towards other races? Answer nowhere to be found. Would you feel comfortable sending either of these individuals off to a deserted island with vulnerable members of other races? Answer nowhere to be found.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jan 31, 2014 19:09:53 GMT -5
I would keep djpolldancer. Hobby is botany. He would know what fruit, fungi and plants are safe to eat.
I would keep Mmhmm....won't be obese and diabetic for long, since there are no Twinkies and bacon cheeseburgers on the island. The passengers will really need a psychologist to deal with the stresses of their new life, their grief and feelings of hopelessness., not to mention settling disputes; kind of like Deanna Troi.
I'd let go of both kids, the old doctor with the bad ticker and Chiver.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jan 31, 2014 19:16:32 GMT -5
You think the parents of the kids you left to die are really going to work with everyone else? Well, kid. You left the hottie to die with hers, so you're good there. Now you just have to convince the professor and his wife that they should pitch in and help you all after leaving their kid to die because he was born abnormal and didn't deserve to live. Good luck with that. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png)
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jan 31, 2014 19:50:13 GMT -5
You think the parents of the kids you left to die are really going to work with everyone else? Well, kid. You left the hottie to die with hers, so you're good there. Now you just have to convince the professor and his wife that they should pitch in and help you all after leaving their kid to die because he was born abnormal and didn't deserve to live. Good luck with that. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png) No matter who I'd pick...someone would find fault with it. I chose the ones who could contribute the most to the survival of the group.
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steff
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Post by steff on Jan 31, 2014 20:02:02 GMT -5
I say aim this 3 hour tour towards the island that Gilligan's tour landed on because they have everything set up already & the Professor can use the life raft to fix the SS Minnow & save everyone.
and make it a movie of the week.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 31, 2014 20:29:43 GMT -5
I believe I did so on the previous pages. You look it up. The only thing you've said that speaks to these questions is "I don't see an advocate as being the same as a supremacist. A child advocate is not a child supremacist. You have now moved Mr. Archie's goal posts by calling him a supremacist. Be careful." So... you don't see "black power advocate" as meaning "black supremacist". What do you see it as meaning? The answer is nowhere to be found in this thread. Can we infer that you don't see "white power advocate" as meaning "white supremacist"? If so, what does it mean to you? The answers are nowhere to be found in this thread. What are your conclusions about black power advocates' and white power advocates' attitudes towards other races? Answer nowhere to be found. Would you feel comfortable sending either of these individuals off to a deserted island with vulnerable members of other races? Answer nowhere to be found. You also missed reply #55. Black Power can mean a number of things including self determinstion and collective values. There is nothing wrong with self determination and setting values. What you did was determine the worst case scenario of black power, that ìs black nationalism and separatism. And then to top it off, you reverse course 180 degrees and redefine the white mormon's sympathetic anti-black views to just a closet racist who probably means no harm. How do you know that? You don't. You demonized the black passenger but give the mormon with anti-black views a pass. And with your futher demonization of the black man, we end up with a post by Phoenix stating the black man will not treat the white survivors on the island when there was zero reason to assume such a thing. If the black man was such a racist and a black supremacist, what was he doing on a boat with white passengers in a remote part of the world populated by uninhabited islands? i am now done with this thread.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 31, 2014 21:46:46 GMT -5
i was going to say that we should kill and eat paul, but seriously;
there is no way to decide without constructing a decision matrix. i have no idea how that would play out, and i have no intention of doing it.
but i don't think the exercise is sophomoric, at all. i think utilitarian ethics is fun, and this is absolutely of that creed.
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Lizard King
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Post by Lizard King on Jan 31, 2014 23:02:40 GMT -5
Is it the case that seven people must head for the island?
The boat holds up to seven people; we've accepted that the problem parameters indicate we can't sneak the baby on board as an eighth. But can we send only six, or three, or one?
Is the optimal solution to let more people than necessary die, in order to reduce the tensions among the group?
Jasper Fforde's wonderful Thursday Next novels see the heroine briefly installed at one point as the captain of the SS Moral Dilemma, doomed to be confronted eternally with insoluble conundra of this general species. Her resolution to that problem is elegant and instructive for those of us grappling with this one here.
Have an exit plan ~ Matt Drudge
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Feb 1, 2014 1:05:49 GMT -5
Actually I'd keep him because we have no idea if they are even going to land let alone survive for any appreciable time. His hobby is botany, knowing plants. Knowing what to try to eat and what might kill you or make you deathly ill is actually one of the first survival skills one needs.
Farming only becomes important after you figure out what you can "farm". Hunter gathering works just as well, because I wouldn't optimize for creating some colony to live on the island forever. You'd want people who'd figure out how to build something and get home. (I'd want/prefer) Or the next island, etc.
It is an interesting exercise as it will point out people's preferences and what is the problem they are trying to solve in selecting those 7 people.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2014 8:51:36 GMT -5
... The story is juvenile hypothetical nonsense. I agree it imparts nothing useful. Did you take into account that it is an activity designed for juveniles? Yes, used for it's original intent it's fine (grade 6?) I don't have any use for the stuck on the uncharted island scenarios. I'm boring in that regard.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 1, 2014 10:00:57 GMT -5
Actually I'd keep him because we have no idea if they are even going to land let alone survive for any appreciable time. His hobby is botany, knowing plants. Knowing what to try to eat and what might kill you or make you deathly ill is actually one of the first survival skills one needs. i was thinking the same thing. also the fact that i am apparently healthy might help. but for the record, i am not going to leave my wife and son, so that should make it easy. eat Paul, and you have it made.
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Feb 2, 2014 6:48:08 GMT -5
How about holding a race......then you have got survival of the fittest...ie....The natural pattern.
The sick and young would be out...but if the woman could race with babe in arms then she and the babe would stay.....and anyone who was not mentally strong enough wouldn't be driven to race.
The strongest would survive on a desert island...colour or religion would have no bearing at all.
It wold be your choice in a race......and if you wouldn't leave your wife and son....then perhaps you wouldn't do to well on a desert island without them.
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on Feb 2, 2014 7:46:30 GMT -5
All you need to do is watch the movie "Life of Pi". it will answer all of everyone's questions
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 2, 2014 9:55:34 GMT -5
All you need to do is watch the movie "Life of Pi". it will answer all of everyone's questions i watched that film. the questions remain. but it is worth watching, anyway. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/wink.png)
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Feb 2, 2014 12:41:57 GMT -5
The only thing you've said that speaks to these questions is "I don't see an advocate as being the same as a supremacist. A child advocate is not a child supremacist. You have now moved Mr. Archie's goal posts by calling him a supremacist. Be careful." So... you don't see "black power advocate" as meaning "black supremacist". What do you see it as meaning? The answer is nowhere to be found in this thread. Can we infer that you don't see "white power advocate" as meaning "white supremacist"? If so, what does it mean to you? The answers are nowhere to be found in this thread. What are your conclusions about black power advocates' and white power advocates' attitudes towards other races? Answer nowhere to be found. Would you feel comfortable sending either of these individuals off to a deserted island with vulnerable members of other races? Answer nowhere to be found. You also missed reply #55. Black Power can mean a number of things including self determinstion and collective values. There is nothing wrong with self determination and setting values. What you did was determine the worst case scenario of black power, that ìs black nationalism and separatism. And then to top it off, you reverse course 180 degrees and redefine the white mormon's sympathetic anti-black views to just a closet racist who probably means no harm. How do you know that? You don't. You demonized the black passenger but give the mormon with anti-black views a pass. And with your futher demonization of the black man, we end up with a post by Phoenix stating the black man will not treat the white survivors on the island when there was zero reason to assume such a thing. If the black man was such a racist and a black supremacist, what was he doing on a boat with white passengers in a remote part of the world populated by uninhabited islands? i am now done with this thread. What can I say? If the white Mormon was described as a "white power advocate", I'd assume he was a white supremacist. If the black fitness nut was described as "sympathetic to anti-white views", I'd assume he was a closet racist willing to tolerate racism against whites. I'm not going to suspend my better judgment on interpreting the language in the manifest just because you don't like my interpretation. As for others presuming my interpretation is correct, I can't help what they say or do. If it makes any difference to you or to the others who saw my "black supremacist" interpretation, I disclaim: The problem statement and passenger descriptions in the OP are copied verbatim from a worksheet taken from a Twitter feed. I did not author the worksheet. My word is not law when it comes to interpreting it. Everything from Reply #1 onward constitutes my personal thoughts and analysis. My statements should not be considered "official" clarifications to the problem statement. I am your peer. I have no special knowledge regarding the problem statement.I invite everyone who assumed my interpretations were fact to please review their assessments.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 2, 2014 12:47:11 GMT -5
... I invite everyone who assumed my interpretations were fact to please review their assessments. An exact thing for people to learn to do. ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/charmed.png)
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Feb 2, 2014 12:54:28 GMT -5
... I invite everyone who assumed my interpretations were fact to please review their assessments. An exact thing for people to learn to do. ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/charmed.png) Only this wouldn't be an issue in a real classroom. Tenn (and possibly others) assumed that my interpretation of the problem statement carried greater weight because I was the one who presented it. In a classroom setting, the presenter would be the teacher. And if a teacher makes clarifications on the language, what s/he says is law. So no way. This little "learning experience" is unique to our message board.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 2, 2014 12:59:22 GMT -5
An exact thing for people to learn to do. ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/charmed.png) Only this wouldn't be an issue in a real classroom. Tenn (and possibly others) assumed that my interpretation of the problem statement carried greater weight because I was the one who presented it. In a classroom setting, the presenter would be the teacher. And if a teacher makes clarifications on the language, what s/he says is law. So no way. This little "learning experience" is unique to our message board. But if the teacher refused to be the "law", then it would be the interpretation of group members. And questioning what the terms mean would be a part of this assignment in any quality teacher's classroom.
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Feb 2, 2014 13:03:30 GMT -5
I've learned that I'm not getting in a boat with any of them. ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/faint.gif)
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 2, 2014 13:18:54 GMT -5
![](http://dirtyclassroom.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Whitney1.jpg) Metaphorically speaking of course. ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/charmed.png)
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Feb 2, 2014 13:20:40 GMT -5
Only this wouldn't be an issue in a real classroom. Tenn (and possibly others) assumed that my interpretation of the problem statement carried greater weight because I was the one who presented it. In a classroom setting, the presenter would be the teacher. And if a teacher makes clarifications on the language, what s/he says is law. So no way. This little "learning experience" is unique to our message board. But if the teacher refused to be the "law", then it would be the interpretation of group members. And questioning what the terms mean would be a part of this assignment in any quality teacher's classroom. Which still fails to provide any meaningful lesson, excepting the lesson that there will always be that one group member who flies off the handle if s/he doesn't like your interpretation. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png)
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