Lizard King
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Post by Lizard King on Jan 31, 2014 11:28:38 GMT -5
My list is the same as yours, Virgil. Archie and Phoenix are, to me, pretty much interchangeable, though. In the context of survival, I'd think a twentysomething physical fitness nut had the edge over a sixtysomething looking for his third heart attack.
It's going to take some hard labor to make that island home.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jan 31, 2014 11:31:15 GMT -5
That's why I find the two pretty much interchangeable, phoenix. Dr. Phoenix will have some skill that will be quite valuable; however, so will Archie. I'd probably lean toward saving Archie and sacrificing Dr. Phoenix, but I don't consider the choice earth-shattering.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 31, 2014 11:35:08 GMT -5
Virgil Showlion - "It says you "sympathize" with anti-black views, not necessarily that you have anti-black views." Seriously Virgil? sym•pa•thize (ˈsɪm pəˌθaɪz) v.i. -thized, -thiz•ing. 1. to be in sympathy or agreement of feeling; share in a feeling (often fol. by with). 2. to feel a compassionate sympathy, as for suffering or trouble (often fol. by with). 3. to express sympathy or condole (often fol. by with). 4. to be in approving accord, as with a person or cause. 5.to agree, correspond, or accord.Sympathize
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Lizard King
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Post by Lizard King on Jan 31, 2014 11:37:25 GMT -5
That doesn't follow for me. Ceteris paribus, we'd expect Archie to be much better able to build shelters under workpublic's direction or to withstand extremes of climate than we would Dr. Phoenix.
If we leave Archie behind we lose a lot of practical skill and strength. Having Dr. Phoenix sagely remind us that Voltaire urged us all to tend our own gardens, when Farmer Bill is the only person there strong enough to till the stony soil in an effort to eke forth some sort of edible grain, doesn't seem adequate compensation to me.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2014 11:39:28 GMT -5
That doesn't follow for me. Ceteris paribus, we'd expect Archie to be much better able to build shelters under workpublic's direction or to withstand extremes of climate than we would Dr. Phoenix.
If we leave Archie behind we lose a lot of practical skill and strength. Having Dr. Phoenix sagely remind us that Voltaire urged us all to tend our own gardens, when Farmer Bill is the only person there strong enough to till the stony soil in an effort to eke forth some sort of edible grain, doesn't seem adequate compensation to me.
If you can't feed your soul, nothing else matters.
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Lizard King
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Post by Lizard King on Jan 31, 2014 11:43:30 GMT -5
If someone is pro-life, but can respect the view of a pro-choice advocate, are they a pro-choice sympathizer?
It's not uncommon to encounter an ordinary language use of "sympathy" as an adjunct to disagreement:
"The Court sympathizes with plaintiff's distress, however under the law as written we must find with the defendant on this matter."
Now consider:
"I have no problem with blacks personally, but I can see how low-information whites raised in generational poverty would come to resent blacks that they perceive as being favored by public policy such as affirmative action at whites' expense."
You're welcome to disregard that opening caveat as the defensive "some of my best friends are black" mantra of the closet racist; but I think it is genuinely possible to sympathize with a racist in the 2nd sense of your definition, Tenn - to view them as afflicted with racism as a result of circumstances, rather than to blame them for their perspective.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jan 31, 2014 11:54:09 GMT -5
Doesn't matter. It's all going to end up like Lord of the Flies....with no rescue at the end. The big question is who is going to be the one left standing.
I'll give it a shot anyway.
I could never let the babies stay, so Virgil and Paul are in. One mother could take care of them both and since mmhmm is ill, I would choose Chiver - even though it appears she has no helpful skills other than taking care of the kids.
mmhmm and her hubby are going to stay behind together, know their child is going to be taken care of as much as possible. That's two.
Cereb has no apparent skills for deserted island survival. She stays. That's three.
Phoenix and Archie both have medical skills, although not sure how much difference that is going to make with no equipment or medication. Since Archie is younger and healthier, he gets in the boat. Phoenix stays behind. That's four.
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Lizard King
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Post by Lizard King on Jan 31, 2014 12:05:07 GMT -5
I am saddened by the widespread gerontophobia of this thread.
Is there no value attached to life experience? ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/wink.png)
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 31, 2014 12:07:03 GMT -5
You are cherry picking your definition, Phoenix, as the majority of the definitions from any dictionary source will back me up. And in the context of this 'game', it is quite clear what it means regardless of what Virgil 'thinks' it means.
Hell: Vigil went from black power advocate to black supremacist. Quite a leap when you know there are several meanings for black power but Virgil selects the most negative one viewed by many.
(U.S. Roman Catholic priest) Father Charles Coughlin was a sympathizer with some of the policies of (forgive me Godwin) Hitler and Mussolini. Coughlin was also an infamous anti-Semite. With your choice of the sympathize definition, Phoenix, that must mean Coughlin felt bad that Hitler and Mussolini disliked Jews. Yet we know Coughlin hated Jews too.
Coughlin was a disgraceful character before, during and after WWII.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jan 31, 2014 12:11:51 GMT -5
I am saddened by the widespread gerontophobia of this thread.
Is there no value attached to life experience? ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/wink.png) You've had two dang heart attacks! Your life experience isn't all that positive!
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Jan 31, 2014 12:20:40 GMT -5
wouldn't take the two youngest or the two sickest Wouldn't matter a jot about liberal attitudes, black rights and the like on a desert island...They would work together because they would have to. Those precious places have to be for those who have a good chance of surviving.... ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/smiley.png)
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Lizard King
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Post by Lizard King on Jan 31, 2014 12:23:46 GMT -5
I don't deal in definitive, Tenn. I talk about what's possible; often, what's unlikely or unreasonable for the average reader to infer, but still what's possible. I'd assume somebody described as "sympathetic to anti-black views" is differentiated from somebody described as "racist" - it's not unreasonable to assume that represents an unwillingness to make the accusation directly, but it doesn't seem unreasonable to me either to impute some gradation between the two - a difference of degree rather than kind, perhaps.
I get your point regarding the similarly open etymology of 'black power.' I have something of a vested interest in the concept of sympathy with views one doesn't personally hold - or which one holds less adamantly or with more caveats than a broad-brush label might imply - which motivated my contribution.
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Lizard King
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Post by Lizard King on Jan 31, 2014 12:26:39 GMT -5
I am saddened by the widespread gerontophobia of this thread.
Is there no value attached to life experience? ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/wink.png) You've had two dang heart attacks! Your life experience isn't all that positive! "You only live twice; once when you are born, and once when you look death in the face" ~ Basho
See the value of literary quotes ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/laugh.png)
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jan 31, 2014 12:29:35 GMT -5
Oh, absolutely! And when we've run out of everything else to eat and are starting to look at one another and drool, we can bring out those quotes and have us a BBQ!!
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Lizard King
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Post by Lizard King on Jan 31, 2014 12:38:14 GMT -5
"Hungry man, reach for the book: it is a weapon." ~ Bertolt Brecht
I got a bunch of these.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jan 31, 2014 12:45:00 GMT -5
LOL! I sure hope so!
I have a question, tho. If a man is hungry, he is to reach for a book because it is a weapon? Is he supposed to hit a cow over the head with it?
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Lizard King
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Post by Lizard King on Jan 31, 2014 12:46:15 GMT -5
"The mere brute pleasure of reading is the sort of pleasure a cow must have in grazing." ~ G. K. Chesterton
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jan 31, 2014 12:48:13 GMT -5
Starting us off, I vote to DJ, mmhmm, Virgil, and Archie. mmhmm and Virgil since they're never going to make it anyway. DJ, because he might as well die with his family. And Archie because the last thing we need is a black power advocate on an island with a Mormon with anti-black views (workpublic, who we need for his construction skills). So on the boat are: chiver, Paul, cereb, Swamp, workpublic, billisonboard, phoenix. So Sir Virgil, why are you willing to participate in this activity when you set it up but: ... If some teacher issued this exercise to me today as part of a group exercise, I'd tell him/her "no way". ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/charmed.png)
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Lizard King
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Post by Lizard King on Jan 31, 2014 12:48:48 GMT -5
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Lizard King
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Post by Lizard King on Jan 31, 2014 12:52:19 GMT -5
Bill -
It's clear that the exercise has a profoundly different character as an idle bit of chitchat on a discussion forum - a little corner of the internet expressly created for such idle bits of chitchat - compared with its character as a mandatory exercise in a school environment in which children are expected to participate and from which they are expected to derive some lesson.
You lil scamp, you.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jan 31, 2014 12:52:51 GMT -5
Yep. He's staying.
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Lizard King
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Post by Lizard King on Jan 31, 2014 12:56:58 GMT -5
"Often undecided whether to desert a sinking ship for one that might not float, he would make up his mind to sit on the wharf for a day." ~ Lord Beaverbrook
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jan 31, 2014 12:59:40 GMT -5
Bill -
It's clear that the exercise has a profoundly different character as an idle bit of chitchat on a discussion forum - a little corner of the internet expressly created for such idle bits of chitchat - compared with its character as a mandatory exercise in a school environment in which children are expected to participate and from which they are expected to derive some lesson.
You lil scamp, you. What can I say except of courseTime for a Musical Interlude ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/note.gif) ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/charmed.png)
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 31, 2014 13:41:59 GMT -5
Bill -
It's clear that the exercise has a profoundly different character as an idle bit of chitchat on a discussion forum - a little corner of the internet expressly created for such idle bits of chitchat - compared with its character as a mandatory exercise in a school environment in which children are expected to participate and from which they are expected to derive some lesson.
You lil scamp, you. ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/yeahthat.gif) Secondly, I could hardly expect others to participate in the exercise if I snubbed it. Thirdly, I would have snubbed the exercise on the premise that it was pointless and sophomoric, but the whole premise of this thread is to determine whether my hypothesis is correct. For the experiment to be fair, I need to suspend my skepticism and participate wholeheartedly. As for this whole row about "sympathizer" versus "advocate", I gave my honest assessment. If I was writing an article to describe an individual actively involved in the promotion of some ideology, I'd call him an "advocate". If I was writing to describe an individual who readily tolerated an ideology without overtly promoting it, I'd call him a "sympathizer". YMMV. Finally, to me "black power" means "black supremacy", "white power" means "white supremacy". I realize both have a broad historical background and can refer to a spectrum of ideologies and movements, but I assume the worst in both cases.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jan 31, 2014 13:51:21 GMT -5
There is a point to this exercise and it is critical to the effective operation of a tyranny. It is to desensitize the pupils to the idea that "we" must make life and death decisions. This is important for every kind of tyranny from soft tyrannies like our own where we must soon ration / control who gets medical treatment, what kind, and how far any treatment can go due to the unsustainable costs of government controlled healthcare; to hard tyrannies like North Korea, Islamic states like Iran, or the one proposed by Obama's terrorist friend William Ayers where as many as 25,000,000 people might need to be eliminated due their attitudes and beliefs. In fact, if you look at the radical environmentalist's population control agenda, they regard human beings as a threat to the Earth-- and thus some people may have to be eliminated. DEATH is an obsession among statists. They regard the deaths of "some people" as desirable, and softening the attitudes / desensitization of the general public is critical to implementing policy that either intentionally, or as a side effect results from their bad policy.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2014 13:57:54 GMT -5
The Dispute
Fellow posters, help billisonboard and me resolve a dispute. The following problem is taken straight out of the pages of a grade 6 Common Core English course. Billis claims that it's a legitimate exercise that will lead students into "seeing both what they value and that others do not necessarily value the same things", and to "a great discussion on how human beings work to reach consensus in stressful situations". I, on the other hand, see the exercise as sophomoric and pointless. I maintain that it imparts no useful skills, knowledge, or attitudes. So... why not try it out and see? All are welcome to participate. Let's put our minds together and see what consensus we come up with. The Problem
(copied verbatim, with a few edits to tailor the statement to our message board)
A severe storm has crippled a small ship, the S.S. Guppy, and the only remaining lifeboat has room for seven people. You have no hope of reaching civilization, but there's a fairly good chance that you can make it to one of the many small, uncharted, and unpopulated islands in the area. You may have to remain on such an island for years. Your task is to choose which seven people should be allowed on the lifeboat, and hence, be allowed to survive. We, in this thread, must come up with a unanimous decision and explain why we have chosen our seven people. To emphasize the fact that the passengers on the S.S. Guppy are real people with real lives, I have assigned each one a name randomly from the list of P&M frequent posters (with matching gender). The Passengers
1. Dr. djpolldancer - thirty-seven, white, no religious affiliation, Ph.D. in history, college professor, in good health (jogs daily), hobby is botany, enjoys politics, married with one child. 2. Mrs. mmhmm - thirty-eight, white, Jewish, rather obese, diabetic, M.A. in psychology, counselor in a mental health clinic, married to djpolldancer, has one child (Virgil) 3. Virgil - ten, white, Jewish, cognitively disabled with an IQ of 70 4. Mrs. chiver - twenty-three, Spanish American, Catholic, ninth grade education, cocktail waitress, worked as a prostitute, married at age 16, divorced at age 18, one child (Paul) 5. Paul - three months old, Spanish American, healthy 6. cereb - eighteen, black, Protestant, trade school education, wears glasses, artistic 7. Mr. Archie - twenty-five, black power advocate, starting last year of medical school, suspected of homosexual activity, music as a hobby, physical fitness nut 8. Mrs. Swamp - twenty-eight, black, Protestant, daughter of a minister, college graduate, electronics engineer, single now after a brief marriage, member of Zero Population 9. Mr. workpublic - fifty-one, white, Mormon, B.S. in mechanics, married with four children, enjoys outdoors, years of experience in construction, handy, sympathizes with anti-black views 10. Fr. billisonboard - thirty-seven, white, Catholic, priest, active in civil rights, former college athlete, farming background, often criticized for liberal views 11. Dr. phoenix - sixty-six, Spanish American, Catholic, doctor in general practice, two heart attacks in the past five years, loves literature and quotes extensively Humorous character descriptions applied to known entities. The story is juvenile hypothetical nonsense. I agree it imparts nothing useful.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jan 31, 2014 14:03:38 GMT -5
But to answer the question posed- the lifeboat actually has room for all 11 people and about a week's worth of supplies. 7 was the number determined by some bureaucratic government agency and put on the official "do not remove" label.
Or, alternatively, the ship is described as "crippled" not sinking. Therefore a number of round trips could be made.
Or, materials from the ship could be fashioned into an additional life raft, and/or a floating extension of the existing life raft.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 31, 2014 14:07:54 GMT -5
There is a point to this exercise and it is critical to the effective operation of a tyranny. It is to desensitize the pupils to the idea that "we" must make life and death decisions. This is important for every kind of tyranny from soft tyrannies like our own where we must soon ration / control who gets medical treatment, what kind, and how far any treatment can go due to the unsustainable costs of government controlled healthcare; to hard tyrannies like North Korea, Islamic states like Iran, or the one proposed by Obama's terrorist friend William Ayers where as many as 25,000,000 people might need to be eliminated due their attitudes and beliefs. In fact, if you look at the radical environmentalist's population control agenda, they regard human beings as a threat to the Earth-- and thus some people may have to be eliminated. DEATH is an obsession among statists. They regard the deaths of "some people" as desirable, and softening the attitudes / desensitization of the general public is critical to implementing policy that either intentionally, or as a side effect results from their bad policy. I have to admit, the same thought crossed my mind. Now, before Tenn wigs out, I will disclaim: We do not know what the reach of this assignment was. It might have been something one teacher printed up for his/her class, or something used by just one school, or it might have been disseminated more broadly. It doesn't look particularly official, it has two typos, and it doesn't include any headers or footers indicating the source. So it might just be the ugly brainchild of some well-meaning teacher somewhere. That said, it strikes me utterly without merit, and I can think of at least six good reasons why I wouldn't want my kid engaging in this kind of exercise in school.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 31, 2014 14:08:49 GMT -5
But to answer the question posed- the lifeboat actually has room for all 11 people and about a week's worth of supplies. 7 was the number determined by some bureaucratic government agency and put on the official "do not remove" label. Or, alternatively, the ship is described as "crippled" not sinking. Therefore a number of round trips could be made. Or, materials from the ship could be fashioned into an additional life raft, and/or a floating extension of the existing life raft. No improvisation or ingenuity allowed. Four must die.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2014 14:09:20 GMT -5
Oh, absolutely! And when we've run out of everything else to eat and are starting to look at one another and drool, we can bring out those quotes and have us a BBQ!! I was kinda thinking that might count as a reason to keep mmhmm around ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/wink.png)
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